United value him @ 20 millions pound, why'd United go for Herrera in January?
Ander Herrera is a Manchester United Player!
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It just smacks of bullshit from us. Why on earth would 3 respected lawyers turn up to negotiate a deal for us unless we instructed them to? I don't think I've ever been so embarrassed.
You are more embarassed by United's transfer conduct than anything else you have done in your own life?
Right, I'm taking some flack here, for trying to keep a stoical point of view.
All of a sudden Herrera is the best player we could hope to get, with most saying it is worth over-paying.
Where were you all before last week?
This thread had less than two full pages until Thursday, despite being opened in March 2012!
Now 111 pages later, this guy is the second coming of Christ.
I'm going to back out before I get anymoresmilies.
Nah, you do have a valid point, just argued it with poor examples! What you were saying is why I don't expect us to sign him in January. The midfield crisis has been mitigated a fair bit so there's no rush to go pay over the odds for Herrera, maybe even an opportunity to wait for others to become available.
It's true no one was screaming out for him, partly because there were more fancy names floating around, partly because a Bilbao player is not a great one to have on your radar (I'm actually surprised at how low their release clauses are relative to the funny money ones that are the norm in Spain, probably because anyone signing for Bilbao knows that's the only way out, ever). Finally, partly because he was too sensible an option TBH.
He would be a bit of a gamble overpaying 5-10M as I said (seems United lean to the 10M side), but he would suit us very well: he is a proper CM who can both defend and play the killer ball. I think over the long term you would look back at it as a bargain.
We won't!
Yeah, if that Guardian article is true, and considering it's from Taylor it probably is, we won't be signing him in January. Too much money unfortunately.
You are more embarassed by United's transfer conduct than anything else you have done in your own life?
By United is what I should have added. And actually thinking about it maybe you're right, if they are trying to deny that they had any involvement with these lawyers then it might actually be more embarrassing than anything I've ever done.
I think our conduct this summer has been a shambles, but that is over the top. United denying involvement with lawyers more embarrassing that anything you have done in this life.. I'd suggest going out and living a little bit.
That's how it looks, which is a shame.
If we go by what Moyes thinks when he declined to sign Thiago because he is not physically capable of handling the rigors of the premier league, then how is he confident Herrera will handle it? There isnt one Spanish midfielder who is like a bulldozer. Mata, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Silva, Cazorla etc. are all short and dont exactly have great physical bodies but they do just fine in the international stage.
That article's made me depressed.
Is he worth more than the 20 odd million zone? I know we're a bit behind the times and all that, but I personally thought that 30-35m was too much.
Is it known that Moyes didn't go for Thiago because of his physique? That article and all the previous ones I've seen about that deal suggest Moyes just wasn't confident about buying a player he hadn't done enough research about personally, it seems strange given the price and that it's well known what a player he could be. Also, even if it was to do with size, Herrera is 6 foot tall and pretty solid while Thiago's 5 foot 7.
It seems unlikely that he'll join us now unless Moyes and the scouts are massively impressed over the coming months, we know that Bilbao won't sell for lower than the release clause (which apparently goes up by 40m euros next summer) and it seems like our valuation of him isn't that high.
Considering that Fellaini went for 32.5m EUR and Illarramendi for 39m EUR, then I think he's worth 35m in today's market. Thiago IMO was the exception, not the norm. Without the clause he would have costed more than 40m EUR.
Most of these play fine in the Premier League too its not like Mata, Fabregas, Silva and Cazorla haven't all flourished in England it'd be a brave man who would say Xavi and Iniesta couldn't hack it here.
Honestly, after all I've read I'm not sure what to believe. I'm not sure if United are briefing out that we didn't go for x and y for z reason to save face or if Moyes genuinely doesn't believe in slight players (though he bought Arteta so the idea he prefers pure physicality to technique strikes me as odd). The only thing I know is that Ander Herrera is the kind of number 8 that would thrive at Old Trafford and I'd be delighted if we went back in January and signed him.
Yes, I wanted Thiago more because I believe Thiago has more natural talent as does Fabregas. But just because he's not as good as, arguably the two best Spanish midfielders of the next generation, doesn't mean Herrera isn't good. Herrera has played for his country at every level besides the full side and once the likes the Xabi Alonso hang up their boots he'll be back in contention for a squad so good Martinez can't get into the first XI, Mata is at best a sub most times and Michu can't even get a call up. Considering what's out there we won't easily find someone better than Herrera to fill Scholesy's shoes. Believe that. A few years from now he'll be a huge player for someone I just hope its Man Utd.
Herrera seems to get fairly stuck in defensively, perhaps this is an important factor for Moyes, what's Thiago like defensively?
He's a more certain bet to become a very good central midfielder than Anderson was when we paid £20m for him, given that he already is one. People thought Carrick in 2006 was overpriced. I find our way of valuing players bizarre to be honest, but then I'm just a twat on a forum.
So we're probably not that interested at all then? Doesn't look like we'll be going back in.
You need an STD to put it into perspective.
It sounds like Moyes was willing to cut corners on his research for a £20m offer, but for the full release clause he wanted more time to do his own background checks. Fergie was reportedly the same, it's just that we never saw his process laid bare since he was at the club for so long. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Moyes policy itself was inspired by a bit of advice from SAF.
I assume Moyes will spend the next few months doing his due diligence on Herrera and if he's deemed to have the right personality, we'll pull the trigger on the release clause. Ability-wise I think Ander probably is good enough. But then that's just my impression, and I don't know shit.
I assume Moyes will spend the next few months doing his due diligence on Herrera and if he's deemed to have the right personality, we'll pull the trigger on the release clause. Ability-wise I think Ander probably is good enough. But then that's just my impression, and I don't know shit.
Daniel Taylor also saying the club is still adamant they have no idea who the lawyers were - I suspect we'll never really get to the bottom of that.
Im guessing we are just trying to save face here.
Maybe so but that is around our limit, we can no way go for Baines, Fellaini at the price paid + Herrera, no way. If not the case then how come we only got one of them. Moyes wanted both badly, surely we all agree and he didn't get them. Surely a man who wants both, went for both, is at Manchester United with unlimited budget or no named budget/limit could get two players from Everton. Not buying this 'we've met our 'value' limit' stuff.
I think his hands are tied. Can't put all this down to spastic-ness. I mean Fabregas as well, only offered around the £30m mark.
Its the internet make, who cares what we look like. Its my personal take on it. United will not come out and tell the full truth all the time, just as Ferguson never did. Wouldn't sell them a virus etc etc.
In the last 5 years he has achieved more than 3 assists once. In 2011/12 he got nine. 14 in 146 starts, suggests those with such high expectations would be disappointed.
The only examples I gave were to illustrate that proven quality can be obtained for close to this asking price.
Promise, if there is any, should not demand that premium. Unless of course the talent is remarkable. (Ronaldo/Neymar/Bebe)
Well tomorrow we will announce record revenue of £353m not including the new tv deal (£20m) Chevrolet bonus payment (£17m) aon deal (c.£20m) and the almighty new Nike deal to come. And the £10m a year saved in interest payments.
We have never been in a better position financially, pre or post glazers. Our lack of spending is not down to a lack of finances, it is to do with an unwillingness to spend it, or at least not to spend it without the most thorough of assessments.
Bunch of pillocks, basically.
Aye and just a little addition here, the protected negotiation period with Nike is up which leaves us to discuss a deal with whoever we want.
Henry Winter in the Telegraph in yet another piece running in tomorrow's papers defending our transfer dealings this summer, clearly the club have gone on the offensive:
An inquiry was made to Bilbao, and a £26 million bid reportedly offered, but it became clear that United would get Herrera only through meeting the buy-out clause of £30.5 million.
“The fee was too much,’’ the United source said. “He’s a very good player but not a top, top player.”
Having decided that £30.5 million was above their valuation of Herrera, United ended all interest in the player on Sunday. Contact was made with Athletic Bilbao and the player’s representatives to inform them of United’s decision.
The following day, transfer deadline day, United were bemused when three individuals purporting to represent the club appeared at the Spanish league offices on Monday afternoon looking to get involved in the deal.
“They were like fake sheikhs,” the United source said. “They were nothing to do with us.’’
The so-called “imposters” were actually members of a Bilbao law firm reportedly used by the Spanish club to facilitate paperwork.
On Monday, United received calls from middlemen saying they could get them Herrera. “They were just trying to insert themselves in the deal,” the United source said. “They were trying to get an introduction fee. A lot of people tried to get involved.”
An inquiry was made to Bilbao, and a £26 million bid reportedly offered, but it became clear that United would get Herrera only through meeting the buy-out clause of £30.5 million.
“The fee was too much,’’ the United source said. “He’s a very good player but not a top, top player.”
Having decided that £30.5 million was above their valuation of Herrera, United ended all interest in the player on Sunday. Contact was made with Athletic Bilbao and the player’s representatives to inform them of United’s decision.
The following day, transfer deadline day, United were bemused when three individuals purporting to represent the club appeared at the Spanish league offices on Monday afternoon looking to get involved in the deal.
“They were like fake sheikhs,” the United source said. “They were nothing to do with us.’’
The so-called “imposters” were actually members of a Bilbao law firm reportedly used by the Spanish club to facilitate paperwork.
On Monday, United received calls from middlemen saying they could get them Herrera. “They were just trying to insert themselves in the deal,” the United source said. “They were trying to get an introduction fee. A lot of people tried to get involved.”
I can't see a Bilbao law firm acting like that of their own volition. . Somebody called them in. Maybe the players agent, or somebody wanting to be his agent at least for this deal.
But if someone at United is really spinning that the player was not a 30m player then I see no deal in January either. Bilbao have no reason to bring the price down ( unless the player stinks up the pitch this season).
He's not long back after his six year press conference ban. It shows.
Since Fergie retired he's gone from being banned to basically being club spokesman
When we finally split the bids for Baines and Fellaini up, we reportedly went with £15m for Baines which got turned down, and in fairness I'd agree that we shouldn't have paid more than that. Plus, Everton really didn't want Baines to go and would have rinsed us dry for him. We then just focused on getting Fellaini done and turned elsewhere (Coentrao) for a left sided player. I think we're content with spending a lot overall, we just get really finicky on the individual bids it seems. Take that quote taken from Winter's article above, to spend £30.5m we're seemingly insisting on a "top, top player". Stuck in the past.
He's proven though and much less of a risk?
Does seem a bit daft though, the £4.5m extra we're not saying Herrera is worth could have been gotten from the Fellaini fee had we signed him for £23.5m when we had the chance.
Of course, yeah. I'm not having a go at him, tbf, just being facetious really.
Hopefully that worth 20m stuff is a bit of bollocks.
Maybe we were willing to overpay on one of them but not both? Plus Daniel Taylor said we valued Herrera at £20m despite offering £26m, if that's true the club already thought we were overpaying.
Herrera is as proven as Fellaini. Not in Premier League (obviously) but in top level. He also has European experience. And isn't as much limited as Fellaini. His defensive stats are very good too. The only thing Fellaini is better is on hoof the ball tactics as a No.10
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