That's the problem though isn't it. Fellaini does stay where he is but Pogba is isolated. Him and Ander link well, but it leaves him trying to link and trying to cover the defence at the same time. That is why you either need to have Carrick/Morgan/Fellaini just sat there and let Ander do the donkey work linking up with Pogba. Carrick in a two would have the same problem. He is better with two working with him.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 50
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 15
- Red cards
- 2
- Status
Difference is that yes Fellaini has more discipline but the problem is that he lacks awareness and that perception you need to play as a DM for a club this size. He could do the ugly stuff but the clever stuff is missing from his locker and blind runs/late runs from midfield, he has been all at sea. The thing is I don't know if he is intelligent enough to improve that side to his game.. he seems the type of guy who tries hard to adapt but keeps repeating mistakes. FWIW I still would like to see him utilised alongside Herrera with Pogba in front and if he still has a mare, I'd lose faith in him.
Herrera on the other hand obviously has more attacking instincts but he is just a more intelligent footballer, so yes he might find himself in attacking positions and leave us exposed but he has the athleticism and intelligence to mark pockets of space. Maybe not to the level we need, but he is certainly better at it than Fellaini.
Happy to be proven wrong - but pretty sure Fellaini ran right into the box, almost on top of our CBs and marking no one in particular and leaving a gaping space on the edge of the box whereas if Herrera hadn't blocked off the shot.. from the first runner into the box, and held off to the edge of the box .. either way they would have got a shot off.
Fellaini could have prevented the situation, Herrera prevented 'a' situation but it would have needed two midfield players back to prevent both runs.
Johnson just went easily past him. Pogba and him just watching there while Allen ran towards the goal. Quite unbelievable. Fellaini and Schneiderlin wouldn't have done anything either, but we don't have a defensive minded midfielder, who can sniff the danger well and track the midfield runs most of the time. They are all ball watching most of the time.
I may be getting the examples confused. Are you talking about the second Watford goal for Fellaini's?
I agree. Herrera tends to attack a bit more so that creates a space in our midfield. Which isn't exactly something a DM should be doing. I agree with domestic tadpole that Blind or Fellaini as a DM with the other two mids (2 out of Herrera or mata or Pogba) will give better balance. Carrick I don't think will help except when we would be in a zorya kind of game
Look at 1.21.. that is awful positioning for a DM. I play that position myself and trust me.. that is abysmal positioning, he showed no awareness of how many of his own team mates are in the box. He was close to a player but should have just passed him on to his CB's as there was two of them there. He wasn't even needed that far into the box, we had that situation contained. Don't get me wrong, I actually like Fellaini unlike alot of caftards (he has alot of heart), but this particular aspect.. for me you either have it, or you don't. I don't see him ever developing that intuition to cope with movement like that if he is struggling to cope with that sort of situation.
I have a suspicion that the pace of the PL game might be passng Carrick by now, or on a regular basis anyway. We need a top class replacement. Blind might be the answer as he is a good passer of the ball from that area. Fellaini is more of a battering ram.
Incredibly frustrating but a young Carrick alongside Herrera and Pogba is a CL challenging midfield it really is.
Incredibly frustrating but a young Carrick alongside Herrera and Pogba is a CL challenging midfield it really is.
A young Carrick would be perfect. Damn getting old.
A young Carrick would be perfect. Damn getting old.
My biggest frustration with Carrick was that he wasn't as silky on the ball as a Busquets and this is why we were poor against teams who press us high up the pitch - especially once Scholes left and it exposed him, but in the current side.. Herrera and Pogba are very very silky and brave on the ball for CM's/AMs and they would be perfect for someone like Carrick.
People complain about him giving away 'cheap' fouls, but that's how every Mou CM has played, except maybe Cambiasso (and that might have something to do with the nature of refereeing in the Calcio)
I'm sure Mou doesn't mind him giving up a few fouls per game just to prevent a goal scoring opportunity
I'm sure Mou doesn't mind him giving up a few fouls per game just to prevent a goal scoring opportunity
I am begining to think there could be something in the Drinkwater rumours. Herrera Pogba Drinkwater for a midfield three could be a good three man midfield. But I think Mou will keep to his 2 man midfield with a nr 10.
Herrera has really impressed me and he is becoming the most important player in the squad. He and Pogba will get better and the team will become a better unit. But Mou has to work on some of our defensive frailties.
Herrera has really impressed me and he is becoming the most important player in the squad. He and Pogba will get better and the team will become a better unit. But Mou has to work on some of our defensive frailties.
Did you start this rumour?
It would be a decent midfield in terms of balance but we are Manchester United. We can't keep making 'Drinkwater' type signings. As you have seen with Kante, the mentality needed to play for a top side is different. The pressure is different. Drinkwater isn't the quality of player we should be looking for, he'd be a slight upgrade on Schneiderlin due to the fact he is better suited for DM but the reality is we need a Verratti level talent for this club to return to where it needs to.
We need a player who has the potential to be a world class DM/DLP hybrid. The scouting team need to pull their finger out because such a signing could have a huge huge impact on the future of this club.. it really is that important a signing.
On the other hand if Herrera did develop into a world class DM/DLP.. we would still need a game controlling CM. One of the two positions needs to be filled either way.
Wow people have started to really stretch. Why is it so hard for people to blame the actual reason we didn't win the game?
Our finishing.
I'd say everyone bar pogba and de gea had about a 7/10 performance and hererra was probably about an 8.
There's really nothing else to blame. You can look at herreras stats he had like 8 interceptions alone.
Our finishing.
I'd say everyone bar pogba and de gea had about a 7/10 performance and hererra was probably about an 8.
There's really nothing else to blame. You can look at herreras stats he had like 8 interceptions alone.
Any chance the Fa will take action on his red card challenge he got away with?
Nope. Ref saw it clearly and booked him for it.
If the referee sees it and judges it to just be a foul and a booking, even though it really was serious foul play and should have been a red, the FA can still take no action?
I thought those rules changed recently so they could overrule referees?
Seems mad, if not. Very lucky to get away with that one, studs down so high up the thigh. It looked like it made his leg twist quite awkwardly as well. Bit of a shocker from Ander.
I thought those rules changed recently so they could overrule referees?
Seems mad, if not. Very lucky to get away with that one, studs down so high up the thigh. It looked like it made his leg twist quite awkwardly as well. Bit of a shocker from Ander.
Had we taken our countless chances and w/o DeGea error you wouldn't be talking like this.
It's not like we had an awful games and should be dropping points. This should have been won by a huge scoreline but for our poor finishing. Their goal came from our goal keeper's mistake.
That's the problem with people. they want to blame everyone even those who shouldn't really be blamed.
People are now talking nonsense about he left the midfield and drifted which is COMPLETELY false. He was staying quite deep and going forward mostly accordingly. We didn't lose because of our midfield, that's clearly nonsense. We lost because of our poor finishing and a poor error by the goal keeper. Herrera wasn't positionally suspect like some in this thread would make you believe, the game was thrown away because of something else which can't really be blamed on the midfield.
As for the goal, it's not like he wasn't anywhere to be seen, or vacated his position, he GOT BEAT by a nutmeg which happens to everyone and the rest followed. He couldn't teleport himself from getting beaten to stopping the goal.
All these talks about him drifting or roaming further leaving the midfield are lies.
Yes i would. Pogba missing his chances has nothing to do with the way he plays.
Him and Zlatan seem to have a good understanding, but Pogba has not clicked so well with our other midfielders so far. Way to often have we seen Pogba do something that looks great, only to fizzle out into nothing or he tries to do everything on his own. This is signs of a player who has not settled in yet
By the way, i'm not holding it against him. Mou has tinkered a lot with the MF, he had no pre season and has just joined us. I am confident he will come good
I rate him highly and think he was very good yesterday but I still think it would be a mistake for us to primarily play him and Pogba in a midfield two.
Look at all the top teams and they have a system that they use week in and week out. That's what we need and a two man midfield isn't it.
Look at all the top teams and they have a system that they use week in and week out. That's what we need and a two man midfield isn't it.
Exactly. Herrera is not one who should be blamed for the draw against Stoke. If anything, he was one of our best performers in that match. His discipline and control in his game provided Pogba the platform to push up and attack teams and allowed us to dominate the game as well.
Herrera's only issue as a midfielder is that he doesn't win enough challenges when pressing up the ball holder, and that can leave us exposed if he doesn't have much cover, but that's about it, and for a player who's not naturally a defensive midfielder, he's done very well.
One just can't expect him to do all of the defending in that midfield. Even Kante had Drinkwater doing the dirty work alongside him at Leceister, and he currently has Matic helping him out defensively in Chelsea.
Yep, Pogba's lack of discipline means you can drive a bus between our two midfielders. This is very similar to how City suffered when they played Toure in a two man midfield.
At home, and against team that park the bus, we can play Herrera/Pogba, but for tougher matches and away matches I would put Carrick behind them..
You can blame Pogba for trying to do too much on his own or whatever but yesterday's result had nothing to due with our midfield being disjointed or Herrera and Pogba not clicking. we were battering Stoke and should have taken our chances. Our midfield completely ran the show against Stoke and we were mostly in control throughout the entire game. It all came down to missed chances which we should have taken some and their goal keeper having a worldy.
Yesterday's game certainly didn't show how Pogba and Herrera don't work like you mentioned in your earlier post. The performances wasn't about our midfield and didn't hinge on them so your conclusion about them truly comes out of left field, especially given that was a midfield that help us create countless chances which should have been converted in a totally dominant display.
Yesterday's issue was our finishing and the blunder DeGea made. All these issues people are suddenly finding out of this game weren't actually there. This is simply a case of a bad result so people think everything must be to blame, so everyone is throwing whatever reason they could think of to explain our loss.
Our loss yesterday was due TO POOR FINISHING.
We aren't playing a midfield 2 though. It's clearly a midfield 3, just Mata being that 3rd midfielder makes it a risk defensively. If you look at average positions and touch maps though, Pogba and Mata are basically playing the same role
Yes, people keep saying Mata is playing as a #10 but he clearly isn't, he's operating as the RCM most of the time in a midfield 3. It's very attacking but leaves the #6 with a lot of work to do as Pogba lacks defensive discipline and while Mata tries hard he's not designed to pick up the defensive slack.
Jose seems resistant to making Pogba the most offensive of the 3 CM's but I think he'll have to give in to it eventually, especially against better teams where we'll need 2 of the 3 CM's to have defensive attributes. That's why Herrera would be the RCM for me with a holder behind him and Pogba, as Herrera doesn't desert his defensive responsibilities but still adds to the attack.
Thought he was really good yesterday, tidy and positive in tight spaces and tackled cleanly when called upon. Would be nice to see him with Carrick, Blind or Schneiderlin behind him at some point,
I think he was decent yesterday and, in a way, it should suit us to have a 'DM' who is more attack minded than the likes of Matic, Kante in a way as we want to be on the attack for the majority of games. Also I can't help but think Pogba should be doing more defensively as, although Herrera has more responsibility to break up play, he should be up and down that pitch like a yo-yo.
We should have won that game very easily although that's football. DDG's first mistake in so long. We do look a lot better/more exciting than last season already.
Despite a quite topsy turvy first few weeks of the season we are only 5 behind City at the top.
We should have won that game very easily although that's football. DDG's first mistake in so long. We do look a lot better/more exciting than last season already.
Despite a quite topsy turvy first few weeks of the season we are only 5 behind City at the top.
It is just not ideal to play with only a dm against most decent teams's set up though especially when we don't seem to press harder as a team with more players.
Also CBs tend to drop too deep so when their midfield runners coming in, they have shit load of space in the box when our CBs are usually standing almost near ddg and wouldn't close down fast enough or can't.
I don't know if it is tactical or individual mistakes but having that much space which keeps happening to us is criminal at this level and we will be losing lots of points like that against any team.
So it is not exactly fellaini or herrera is shit. Just the tactical set up demands too much from them and they are going to leave spaces behind at some points.
Also CBs tend to drop too deep so when their midfield runners coming in, they have shit load of space in the box when our CBs are usually standing almost near ddg and wouldn't close down fast enough or can't.
I don't know if it is tactical or individual mistakes but having that much space which keeps happening to us is criminal at this level and we will be losing lots of points like that against any team.
So it is not exactly fellaini or herrera is shit. Just the tactical set up demands too much from them and they are going to leave spaces behind at some points.
That's actually one of the things I rate most about him. He handles pressing really well and can release a good pass even when pressed. He might not provide the physical presence of Fellaini but he is a proper footballer and he also does his defensive duties quite well despite not being the strongest or tallest man on the field.
Jesus dude, will you quit with the strawmen. Yes, we did lose because of poor finishing, i never claimed otherwise
But concerning Pogba it's one of two possibilities
1) He hasn't properly settled into the team yet
2) This is as good as hes going to be for us, in which case we paid about 70m£ to much for him
You're both wrong.
We drew.
We drew.
- Status