Is playing matches more useful than good training in any instance? Food for thought.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Good post. I believe he has a big impact on our game (in a positive sense) and like I said, it would be a good idea to play him at the tip but I really hope that your theory turns out to be right anyway.
LvG has said that he must improve to get a place in the side and he has tough competition for a place at number 10. He clearly views him in that role only it seems.
good luck to him, he wont get past Rooney.
Dear LVG,
Herrera >>>> Midfield Rooney.
Best regards
Herrera >>>> Midfield Rooney.
Best regards
Like i thought, LvG doesn't view him as a box-to-box midfielder. It is going to be difficult for him here, and that is a shame.
Then he's an idiot for approving his purchase, quite frankly.
So LVG considers him a no.10? Quite frankly, he's a moron for splashing £30m on him. I'm not as big a fan of Herrera as many others on him, but this whole situation is a bit of a joke.
Nothing new really. The club will go for another midfielder, and Herrera wont be any closer to the first team next season.
Last edited:
He didn't splash the money on him though...
Why only as number ten? He mentioned Rooney, who is not playing as number ten, also di Maria who is also playing as number ten.
He sanctioned the purchase, he said so himself.
This will prove to be yet another dropped bollock in the transfer market.
He said Herrera is now on the way back so we'll see if he'll use him more.
If he only sees him as a #10 then Herrera will struggle to get any starts at all. He seems more than capable to play deeper though, so it is odd. An odd decision to buy him if that was the case too.
Sometimes signings don't go the way you want them to.
When Herrera was signed I'm sure LVG envisaged using Rooney as a striker and Herrera as a midfielder. For whatever reason he hasn't done that.
Last edited:
So this is how Van Gaal sees it...
Di Maria---Blind/Carrick----Rooney
---------Mata--------
RVP-----------Falcao
Herrera has to compete with Di Maria, Rooney and Mata for a spot as LVG said. Really though, I believe Di Maria and Rooney are both 10s whereas Herrera can be a proper central midfielder. If LVG really wanted this so called 'balance', he'd go with Blind/Carrick holding, an actual centre midfielder (Herrera) next to the them and then two number 10s out of Rooney/Di Maria and Mata.
Instead he goes for three number 10s but plays one of them (Rooney) as a defensive midfielder when surely a proper midfielder like Herrera would be more suited to the role. Van Gaal is fitting in all the big names rather than looking for balance, quite hypocritical of him. Bottom line - he should pick two of his three number 10s to start rather than play all three and shoehorn one as a defensive midfielder.
Edit:
That's assuming we have to stick to two out and out number nines... I don't see why that always has to be the case, dropping one of the strikers instead of the 10s and playing Herrera would also balance things just as much.
I'm disappointed LVG views Herrera as a 10 and not a centre midfielder. I thought Herrera use to be a 10 but he developed his game to become a more rounded midfielder and he seems a perfect fit for us. It's a real shame.
Di Maria---Blind/Carrick----Rooney
---------Mata--------
RVP-----------Falcao
Herrera has to compete with Di Maria, Rooney and Mata for a spot as LVG said. Really though, I believe Di Maria and Rooney are both 10s whereas Herrera can be a proper central midfielder. If LVG really wanted this so called 'balance', he'd go with Blind/Carrick holding, an actual centre midfielder (Herrera) next to the them and then two number 10s out of Rooney/Di Maria and Mata.
Instead he goes for three number 10s but plays one of them (Rooney) as a defensive midfielder when surely a proper midfielder like Herrera would be more suited to the role. Van Gaal is fitting in all the big names rather than looking for balance, quite hypocritical of him. Bottom line - he should pick two of his three number 10s to start rather than play all three and shoehorn one as a defensive midfielder.
Edit:
That's assuming we have to stick to two out and out number nines... I don't see why that always has to be the case, dropping one of the strikers instead of the 10s and playing Herrera would also balance things just as much.
I'm disappointed LVG views Herrera as a 10 and not a centre midfielder. I thought Herrera use to be a 10 but he developed his game to become a more rounded midfielder and he seems a perfect fit for us. It's a real shame.
Last edited:
He wants a Vidal/Strootman type in midfield, i can see why Herrera doesn't fit this, but as said it is shocking why we splashed 30m on him if he wasn't supposed to be a starter.
Interesting that he compares him against Mata and Rooney. I'd pull out the 'he knows best, because he sees him in training and we don't', but this is a man that has played Di Maria in every position but his best and now has Rooney consistently playing in midfield. What a confusing manager he's proving to be so far.
Yeah, sure, but the issue is that everyone else sees him as a midfielder and Rooney as a striker still. He's the one making the ridiculous decision here. It's also shocking if he didn't do enough research to figure out if he's a midfielder or a 10. He's played in both positions previously, after all.
AdM is in the first XI-LvG sees Hererra as a poor complement as he's an attacking MF. Rooney, in LvG's opinion is a better MF partner to AdM-who we all want to have a pretty free role. Mata is first choice #10.
Will be interesting to see what happens over the summer. Not sure Rooney is best suited for the #6, and is a stopgap this season. But, we'll see if LvG wants to play Rooney in that position based on the summer's business.
Will be interesting to see what happens over the summer. Not sure Rooney is best suited for the #6, and is a stopgap this season. But, we'll see if LvG wants to play Rooney in that position based on the summer's business.
He was always at his best as a number 10 at Athletic Club so it shouldn't really be a surprise...
He offers a lot more than Mata in the #10 role in terms of mobility, defensive cover and tactical flexibility. Mata is of course the superior passer, Ander has the vision but his technique is sometimes lacking. And despite being fairly goal shy at Bilbao, his minutes per goal contribution have been pretty impressive...
A very prudent signing, though. Really, should we expect anything else?
A very prudent signing, though. Really, should we expect anything else?
Firstly, I'd like to say I'd definitely play Herrera but this is my attempt to understand LVG's thinking.
The nuts and bolts is, I think he doesn't think Herrera is disciplined enough in defensive work. My take is that he's equated our helter skelter defending at the start of the season (specifically the Leicester game, which seems to have left a huge mark on him) to having Di Maria and Herrera in midfield and has decided he needs someone who'll do more defensively. That's why initially he dropped Herrera for Fellaini who did OK and then proceeded to get injured. Even so, I think he then decided that while Fellaini adds some defensive sturdiness his forward passing is a bit shit. While Rooney's is also suspect, I'd say Rooney is far more likely to unlock a defense with a good ball or a good run from deep than Fellaini.
I think this is the "balance" that he's been banging on about since the start of the season and he's reached an answer which isn't perfect but is in his head adequate for now. He'll probably rectify the situation by signing a better allround midfielder in the summer (hopefully).
As for signing him in the first place, it isn't a huge deal. He couldn't have known everything about our squad from the outset. He probably liked the way Herrera played from what he'd seen and when the option came to sign him he agreed. Also, the Di Maria signing was very unlikely when the Herrera deal was done. The smart money was him going to PSG.
Last edited:
As I said, he is done here. Van Gaal is very stubborn and if he has decided that he won't use him then he won't use him. He has very little chance of displacing Rooney, Di Maria or even Mata.
He probably cannot wait to get rid of him and sign beloved Strootman.
He probably cannot wait to get rid of him and sign beloved Strootman.
I think you're probably spot on, or close to, with your reasons as to why LvG isn't picking him. The problem is that I just don't really agree with those reasons.
I don't believe Herrera isn't defensively disciplined, certainly no less so than Rooney and certainly more so than Di Maria or Mata. As for Fellaini, that's highly debatable, I think it's abundantly obvious the main reason he's in the team is for his physical and aerial prowess from an offensive perspective, as opposed to his defensive abilities, hence why he's usually further forward with Carrick/Blind/both behind him. Then there's the fact that we use Di Maria up front, Rooney in midfield, play three strikers at once, use three at the back instead of an extra midfielder, etc etc. So many reasons I just don't agree with that ultimately culminate in Herrera not getting any games for us at the moment. it's difficult for me to list all those decisions he makes and not be utterly baffled by them and the fact that Herrera doesn't play, because him playing would negate the bleedin' need for them, in my opinion.
I would also say spunking £30m on a player he clearly wasn't sure of in terms of where he'd play or his suitability to the team is definitely more than "not a huge deal", although probably less of a big deal than spending £60m on one of the best players in the world and using him everywhere except his best position for the most part, but that's a different discussion I guess.
Would be nice to know how much of a Van Gaal signing Herrera really is. What helps is to have some details of the transfer. Luckily there is a man called Andy Mitten who wrote something on it.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/andy-mitten-ander-herrera-sexy-7358093
So he speaks of the deal being done before June was out. Van Gaal was announced as our coach 20th of May. So when he was negotiating the final stages of his contract I suspect Woody was in advanced stages of bringing Herrera in. Woody tried to sign him for Moyes, Fergie was already scouting him.
Don't think Van Gaal knew much of him actually, he was very occupied with his Holland job, and when Ander had a great last season for Bilbao there weren't many Dutch players in the Spanish liga he was scouting. So sure whilst negotiating his contract with United, he could've said no to a talented young midfielder who was having an excellent season for a club that finished 4th in Spain.
But that doesn't make sense given the effort and interest we've had in Herrera over the years, the lack of other good midfielders fit/for sale, our failure deliver in the previous summer. He also talked openly in interviews this summer how he would've liked to sign Vidal but that wasn't possible. He said he approved of the transfers, in a context of explaining United was already busy signing them, he saw two young and talented players so he said Ok, something like that. So in the end he definitely 'approved' of it
As for Herrera, I hope and also expect he's going to be here next year, he's definitely a talented player and he plays football in the right way. Seems to have a great mentality and looks like an ideal player to have in your squad. But I also think it's going to be tough for him given the competition.
The real question is: Could we challenge for the league with a midfield of
----- Blind -----
Herrera - Di Maria
or
------- Blind ------- ---------- Blind#6------------
Herrera Di Maria------ --- Herrera#8--------------
------- Mata ------- ------------ Rooney #10 (Di Maria as a winger?)
And how about the Champions League?
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/andy-mitten-ander-herrera-sexy-7358093
So he speaks of the deal being done before June was out. Van Gaal was announced as our coach 20th of May. So when he was negotiating the final stages of his contract I suspect Woody was in advanced stages of bringing Herrera in. Woody tried to sign him for Moyes, Fergie was already scouting him.
Don't think Van Gaal knew much of him actually, he was very occupied with his Holland job, and when Ander had a great last season for Bilbao there weren't many Dutch players in the Spanish liga he was scouting. So sure whilst negotiating his contract with United, he could've said no to a talented young midfielder who was having an excellent season for a club that finished 4th in Spain.
But that doesn't make sense given the effort and interest we've had in Herrera over the years, the lack of other good midfielders fit/for sale, our failure deliver in the previous summer. He also talked openly in interviews this summer how he would've liked to sign Vidal but that wasn't possible. He said he approved of the transfers, in a context of explaining United was already busy signing them, he saw two young and talented players so he said Ok, something like that. So in the end he definitely 'approved' of it
As for Herrera, I hope and also expect he's going to be here next year, he's definitely a talented player and he plays football in the right way. Seems to have a great mentality and looks like an ideal player to have in your squad. But I also think it's going to be tough for him given the competition.
The real question is: Could we challenge for the league with a midfield of
----- Blind -----
Herrera - Di Maria
or
------- Blind ------- ---------- Blind#6------------
Herrera Di Maria------ --- Herrera#8--------------
------- Mata ------- ------------ Rooney #10 (Di Maria as a winger?)
And how about the Champions League?
Last edited:
He's made a total mess of the Summer transfer window. At the minute it looks like the only two transfers that made sense were the cheap ones - Rojo for £15m might have been worth the money and Blind has definitely proven himself a capable footballer. Shaw for £30m I don't know about but as time goes it seems that Di Maria was cut from the same cloth as Mata i.e. panic buy intended to be a marquee signing with no real plan as how to use him. Falcao hasn't settled very well either and Herrera looks like a provocation of a transfer, 'look at me, I can spend £30m on a player and then not use him AT ALL'. An experienced manager ought to have known better.
He said before June was even out. We signed him at the end of June, it took about 10 days to get the transfer pushed through.
Yep, and it's funny that possibly our best spell of the season so far (around late November/December time I think) was when we had none of the new signings in the team (starting with the Hull game where Di Maria went off injured)
Damn again you correct me again Pexbo. You're absolutely right, I misread it.
It's annoying because I really feel that there is plenty of potential in all of them.
I find Van Gaal strange on this
In terms of their midfield performances could anyone argue that Rooney or Mata have been better than Herrera?
In terms of their midfield performances could anyone argue that Rooney or Mata have been better than Herrera?
if that's the case.
Feck Strootman, I say.
Strootman is fecked I say
-----------------Striker
-----Di Maria--Rooney--Herrera
--------------Blind--CM
-----Di Maria--Rooney--Herrera
--------------Blind--CM
Hmm...I think from what Herrera said earlier about wanting to play as a #10 with us, I get the feeling that van Gaal also got that idea about Herrera and is treating him as a #10 rather than as a #8. It's not that the Leceister game was the catalyst in any way; Herrera did start against West Ham and did very well as a #8 before going off injured. Herrera's defensive game isn't the issue here.
After having watched Herrera carefully ever since he came here and comparing that to a few of his Bilbao performances that I vaguely remember (@Cina and @jojojo can help me with this), I have come to the conclusion that Herrera is starting to play as a more attacking player than he ever did at Bilbao. At Bilbao, since Bielsa came in, Herrera hasn't really played as a #10, and if he ever did, he'd be more conservative than an actual #10. Much of Bilbao's work in the final third was done by the wingers and striker with one of the box-to-box midfielders making late runs into the box (Herrera less often than his partner, Mikel Rico or de Marcos/Javi Martinez before). Herrera would be the main playmaker in midfield as a #8 under Bielsa, whilst Valverde initially made him a #6 before giving him more freedom as a #8 again.
Ever since he came here, Herrera's frequently looked to go forward. This explains the higher rate of goals scored/minute in comparison to his Bilbao seasons, so he looks to score more goals than before. This means that he looks to take up more advanced positions in order to score more goals.
Even after all of this, there are still several things that contradict van Gaal's view and possible train of thought. In the majority of his matches, Herrera's touches have been almost everywhere, mainly on the right channel, but still, almost everywhere, and not just concentrated in the final third. Plus, he makes more clearances than any other #10 that I can recall, indicating his involvement in the defense. Finally, he has made more interceptions per 90 minutes than every #10 with this figure more comparable to those of box-to-box midfielders than #10's. His clearances per game are also better than several #10's as well as his shots blocked per game. His passing accuracy has been the highest it's ever been in his career, and his possession loss stats are the best they've been for him, indicating that he's been less cavalier than during his spell at Bilbao. (All stats have been observed at WhoScored.com, who obtain and interpret data from Opta.)
My observations, and these stats, of Herrera are not indicative of him being a #10 in any way, yet I believe that van Gaal's focusing more on his increased goalscoring tendencies, which makes him interpret Herrera as a #10.
After having watched Herrera carefully ever since he came here and comparing that to a few of his Bilbao performances that I vaguely remember (@Cina and @jojojo can help me with this), I have come to the conclusion that Herrera is starting to play as a more attacking player than he ever did at Bilbao. At Bilbao, since Bielsa came in, Herrera hasn't really played as a #10, and if he ever did, he'd be more conservative than an actual #10. Much of Bilbao's work in the final third was done by the wingers and striker with one of the box-to-box midfielders making late runs into the box (Herrera less often than his partner, Mikel Rico or de Marcos/Javi Martinez before). Herrera would be the main playmaker in midfield as a #8 under Bielsa, whilst Valverde initially made him a #6 before giving him more freedom as a #8 again.
Ever since he came here, Herrera's frequently looked to go forward. This explains the higher rate of goals scored/minute in comparison to his Bilbao seasons, so he looks to score more goals than before. This means that he looks to take up more advanced positions in order to score more goals.
Even after all of this, there are still several things that contradict van Gaal's view and possible train of thought. In the majority of his matches, Herrera's touches have been almost everywhere, mainly on the right channel, but still, almost everywhere, and not just concentrated in the final third. Plus, he makes more clearances than any other #10 that I can recall, indicating his involvement in the defense. Finally, he has made more interceptions per 90 minutes than every #10 with this figure more comparable to those of box-to-box midfielders than #10's. His clearances per game are also better than several #10's as well as his shots blocked per game. His passing accuracy has been the highest it's ever been in his career, and his possession loss stats are the best they've been for him, indicating that he's been less cavalier than during his spell at Bilbao. (All stats have been observed at WhoScored.com, who obtain and interpret data from Opta.)
My observations, and these stats, of Herrera are not indicative of him being a #10 in any way, yet I believe that van Gaal's focusing more on his increased goalscoring tendencies, which makes him interpret Herrera as a #10.
Last edited:
I've seen lots of people put Herrera out on the right attacking midfield role, but I don't think he has the dribbling ability to play there that Silva, Cazorla, Nasri, Hazard, Willian, Tadic, etc., have. Yes, he does spend quite a bit of time out in the right channel, and he has put in a decent number of crosses from the right during his Bilbao days, but he'd only be effective there if we have a good dribbler playing through the middle. If it was Januzaj instead of Rooney in the middle, Herrera would be more useful out wide. Otherwise, we'll need a right full back who's very good at dribbling, and for that, we'd have to hope that Rafael's fit for every match or buy a right back who's a good dribbler like Coleman or Clyne.
this is herrera himself claimed he would have wanted to play in the no 10 role, and acted like this whenever he was given game time. lvg just let him competes according to his wish
- Status