Questioning an opinion is fine. Is that not the whole point of a debate?
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I think he will start tomorrow after that comment
What comment?
Missed those, cheers for that.
I guess that clarifies things though, LVG just rate him as highly as Rooney, Mata and Di Maria.
Yep and consistently our best player season in season out.
When is the last time Rooney was our best player of the season?
The thing about Rooney is he kind of symbolizes the United of recent years, for better or worse.
The first thought that will come into most people's minds when they think of Rooney would be hard work rather than sheer brilliance, the sort we got less and less from United since 2009. He'll give you the odd brilliant moment, when you think he's unplayable, but there will also be moments in which you think he's a pub player, like some people say - which isn't that different to how United have been in the last few years. He's always going to get good numbers in goals and assists, just like we end up winning most games, aside from Moyes's season.
We really have been Wayne Rooney's team. Question is, can we move away from that with him?
The guy is among the best goal scoring charts and assists since he arrived. We won't miss him till he's gone imho.
Well he was our best outfield player last season, and then in 11/12. So 2 of the last 3 years (outfield players)
What baffles me about LvG's comments is that he sees Herrera as a number 10 who has to compete with Rooney and Mata for a place in the team. I know he played behind the striker a lot at Athletic Bilbao but if LvG didn't plan on converting him and using him in central midfield, then why did we buy them? We had several great players competing for one spot, surely we didn't need extra cover in that position? Besides, I still don't get why LvG won't use Herrera as a central midfielder - in my position he has all the tackling ability, drive, passing range and intelligence needed in that position.
If he does see him as only a No. 10 is there any way he will play regularly? I can't see it happening.
We should have a separete thread for LVG weirdest decisions. Putting Herrera in no 10 role is defo one of them.
i dont think he sees him as a No 10 only, otherwise he wouldnt make that comparision with Rooney. He then says there is also the No 10 spot with Mata and Di Maria...
I honestly don't think he knew that much about him. I mean why would he? He's been the Dutch national manager for the past few years, so a doubt he's focused that much on non Dutch players. Especially players from teams like Bilbao (no disrespect to them).
Same goes with Shaw. He probably knew the basics, watched some video analysis and read all the scout reports, but I'd imagine that's about it.
Yeah so weird. So he is competing with Rooney, Mata and Di Maria who have all played out of position a lot. So is he competing as a striker with the latter and as a midfielder with the former two?
Before we'll know LvG will have him competing with Jones and DDG!
i think he competes with Rooney and Di Maria for the CM spot, and with Rooney and Mata for the No 10 spot. But then he says Di Maria too, but did he play there once for us? Weird, but well i can see him beating Mata, but not Rooney or Di Maria. Move Rooney to the striker spot, problem solved. If it would be that easy
He's obviously a wonderful talent but there has been a few games this season where like Mata I had absolutely no idea that Herrera was even on the pitch such was his lack of impact despite him getting close to a full game. Herrera definitely has the talent to make the grade here but the 'Herrera must play' campaign is reminiscent of the 'Nani must play' campaign last season despite Nani not playing well in 2 consecutive matches for 7 previous years
Yep, 100% agree.
People are linking van Gaal to the whole transfer too much, in my opinion.
i think he competes with Rooney and Di Maria for the CM spot, and with Rooney and Mata for the No 10 spot. But then he says Di Maria too, but did he play there once for us? Weird, but well i can see him beating Mata, but not Rooney or Di Maria. Move Rooney to the striker spot, problem solved. If it would be that easy
But it's not that easy is it. Because that team has no balance.
Blind
Herrera - Di Maria
Mata
Van Persie - Rooney
Mata and Di Maria provide very little defensive protection while Herrera doesn't provide enough defensive work to help Blind make up for playing two strikers and two attacking midfielders. Herrera - Di Maria
Mata
Van Persie - Rooney
That's why Fellaini tends to get the nod, for his physical presence in midfield, it helps break up their play (even if it's with stupid fouls) and sees that we don't get physically dominated and overrun.
It's a sad fact in the EPL that the most technical side doesn't always win. Sometimes teams like Stoke or Leicester are allowed to get away with too much and dominate the game by bullying the opposition with crunching tackles, shoulder barges, elbows and long balls that bypass the midfield.
replace Herrera with Mata and put Fellaini in CM or vice versa thats what i meant.
Fair enough, but that's the real discussion. Does Herrera deserve to start over Mata? LVG is of the opinion that he doesn't and to be honest that's a fair enough opinion. You could argue a case for Herrera, sure, but you couldn't argue that LvG is being crazy or stubborn for choosing Mata over him.
I think if you're Ed Woodward your confidence in the manager's transfer dealings begins to suffer as a result of this. He will have been under the impression that he singed an adaptable coach, not a runner-up on Supermarket Sweep.
A theory which was quite brutally exposed by Victor Wanyama; I doubt that Herrera could have done any worse at St Mary's.
There's nothing wrong with a good crunching tackle indeed a few teeth rattling challenges from Quinton Fortune would go a miss this season. And United is hardly in a position to condescend about long balls.
A theory which was quite brutally exposed by Victor Wanyama; I doubt that Herrera could have done any worse at St Mary's.
There's nothing wrong with a good crunching tackle indeed a few teeth rattling challenges from Quinton Fortune would go a miss this season. And United is hardly in a position to condescend about long balls.
Why's that sad? If you don't like a good crunching tackle you've no soul.
Wanayama is a beast and Fellaini had a bad game, it's easy to say Herrera would have done better but who knows? He might have been bullied out of the game conpletely and his stock go down lower with LVG.
As for crunching tackles, I've no problem with them, it's whn its the sole tactic I think it's a shame. I like a team that can go toe to toe and outplay, not just kick lumps and score a set peice.
We might play a lot of long balls too but that stat on is unfair, were also second for short passes and have the highest possession so of course we're going to have a load of long passes too. We don't spend every game lumping it into the box though, there's a lot of diagonal passes which buff that stat. It's actually a completely bollocks stat.
Yes it wasn't regular but the times he has played on the right he did well and I think Herrera is a similar type of AM to Oscar.
If that is the case then I really can't see how we fit Herrera in as a regular starter in either 4-2-3-1 or -4-3-3, which is a shame as he's an excellent talent.
I think Herrera has turned into the new Kagawa. The less he plays, the higher his previous performances are rated. He had a few very decent performances, but he had a few very invisible performances also. The best team isn't always made up of the best players. Do people remember Ossie Ardiles and his Famous Five? Awful stuff. Herrera will get chances, he'll work his way back in. Priceless that Rooney is being blamed by some on here in the same way he was blamed for Kagawa. Lather, rinse, repeat.
But you can't just simply ignore the fact that Rooney has been relatively poor in a deeper midfield role whilst Herrera has been out of the picture. It's factual.
It's not quite the Kagawa situation for me, largely because Rooney is being shoehorned into this position when we're struggling to score goals. Taking place as the number 10 over Kagawa and having people complain...that was nonsense. He might be a better player than Herrera, but he's not a midfielder. That's the gripe.
Hate when people say this, its not true at all. People talk as if he has made a similar non impact as Kagawa had, which couldn't be further from the truth. Every game he plays, he makes a big impact to our speed of the game, he's one of our only genuinely creative players, he increases the pace of our passing which we so desperately need, but when it comes to the defensive side of things he has some of the best stats when you compare him to our other midfielders. Not to mention that he's always a goal threat and makes more chances then anyone bar di maria and has a very good amount of goals and assist considering his lack of playing time. Its not a case of the less he plays the better he gets. We genuinely look miles better with him on the pitch. What games was he invisible in by the way? I'm pretty sure if you look at stats per 90 minutes he has one of the most touches and passes per 90 in our team and is never afraid to get stuck in to win the ball, and his pressing is on another level to our other midfielders. He had a few poor games, yes, but those came when he broke his ribs and was working his way back to full fitness basically. Been impressive apart from that.
And I agree completely that the best team isn't made up of the best players, and I wish van Gaal would start going by that and stop forcing falcao and van Persie in the team when for the most part they've been shite and force other (better) players to play out of position to our detriment.
first of all, i like herrera. who doesn't? he has such an innocent face
however, even those vocal for herrera should start are basically divided into 2 groups at all: herrera is an no 10, herrera is not a no 10.
such kind of split opinions among the herrera should start camp already best tells where the problem lies. if herrera is a no 10, a role that he thinks he is interested in playing, then there is not so much choice left that he has to compete with rooney, mata, diMaria, januzaj, jones, ddg, kagawa et al to gain a starting place. if he opts to become a strootman or alcantara aka player, probably he can easily put himself top in the pecking order
bascially the herrera phenomenon is still part of the "we have six no 10s" issue remaining unresolved
however, even those vocal for herrera should start are basically divided into 2 groups at all: herrera is an no 10, herrera is not a no 10.
such kind of split opinions among the herrera should start camp already best tells where the problem lies. if herrera is a no 10, a role that he thinks he is interested in playing, then there is not so much choice left that he has to compete with rooney, mata, diMaria, januzaj, jones, ddg, kagawa et al to gain a starting place. if he opts to become a strootman or alcantara aka player, probably he can easily put himself top in the pecking order
bascially the herrera phenomenon is still part of the "we have six no 10s" issue remaining unresolved
I don't agree that it is factual. Rooney hasn't been setting the world alight, I'll grant you that, but he's done a hell of a lot of good work, and an incredible amount of hard work. He's also a driving force of the team in my opinion. Personally, I would rather him up front than in midfield, but I don't agree that he's been poor. I think he has been OK, some very good moments, some very bad. Overall, I think he currently helps the balance of the team.
Don't get me wrong though, I like Herrera and hope, and think that he will come good. I just feel that for some reason a number on the caf here have it in for Louis on the basis he's not picking Herrara. That just seems OTT to me.
I'm not saying the same non impact as Kagawa at all. I do like Herrara, I think he's a good little player and will become an important player with time.
However, I think all the stress people have with him not being picked is over blowing the importance that he has shown to the team as of now. He is a creative player, absolutely. And he plays the game at a higher pace alright. But he hasn't been this phenomenon that you'd think he has been with all the panic about him not starting every week.
I'm also not saying I don't want to see him in the team, I'd love to see him start against West Ham for example (even though I don't think it's necessarily the best game to bring him back in for). But I really think it's over blown the way people are going on about it, making out like Rooney has been dreadful where Herrera has been amazing etc.
He's been fine.
What has to happen in order for LVG to give this lad a chance?
getting the sack
Did he sleep with LVG's daughter or wife ? What is going on there ?
Probably a threesome with both of them. Only possible explanation.
He's just trying to prove a point with him, not sure what this point is though.
The way LvG is going it will happen. Just hang in there Ander.
I've just Googled them. Definitely not worth it, Ander!
Sometimes, it's hard to fathom the mind of a genius. It's too abstract for us peasant.
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