It is the formation. When a wing back receives the ball outwide, we have to pass backwards, there's no other alternative. It also only stretches one line of an opponents defence so it's harder to break down and easier to compact the middle. Easy to say we need to be quicker, but it's hard to be quick and fluid in possession when we have very few options available. The diamond is better because we always have a man free in the centre so it's harder to defend and organise, but I don't think we'll see scintillating football regularly until we have the players to play with proper wingers.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Great to see someone who can see this, so many people just say same stereotype about players, sometimes I wonder if they even watch matches, or just watch forums, for example nani is frustrating and inconsistent
31 - Since August 2009, Nani has made more assists than any other Premier League player. Consistent.(was from february 2013)
Rafael has too many brainfarts, herrera, mata are too weak, all I`ve noticed is english/academy players get defended alot, where our better foreign players get labels and it just sticks with them
All these. Making runs from deep is only a fraction of what's required from midfield. His position and movement is nowhere near as good as Ander's. You could add close control to that too. For me, he's the elephant in the room. We suffer because we somehow must play him, to the overall detriment of the team. Ander's put on good displays and has improved our play every time he's been on. I don't understand why we have more than 30m worth of midfielders sitting on the bench who could do no worse than Rooney.
Also, the Newcastle game point is valid. It was more than a month ago.
As long as we play a striker in midfield I'll be calling for Herrera to play. It actually fecking mental that we've used Rooney in midfield this much.
Another manager who hasn't got the balls to drop star names for the sake of the team.
Another manager who hasn't got the balls to drop star names for the sake of the team.
You what? Nani wasn't frustrating and inconsistent now? That's not a fecking stereotype. It's the truth.
That's just amazing stuff. What planet is this coming from? The likes of McNair and Wilson get all kinds of crap on here which whey wouldn't if they we'd bought them from Valencia say. And being British or Irish is the worst thing a player can be according to this forum. The hipsters like players to be a bit more exotic.
That's complete bollocks - a Redcafe myth perpetuated by sanctimonious posters on here. If anything most fans here are desperate for a local hero, just look at the Welbeck thread.
Nonsense, foreign players get far more stick than local players, especially from British-based fans. If Blackette were Spanish and bought for €5m there'd not be a single person keeping faith in him.
His end product was consistently good, which is also the truth.
Everybody is desperate for players coming through our academy to succeed. Their nationality is irrelevant. Januzaj is no less popular than Wilson because he's Belgian.
Definitely a trend for people to be more forgiving of expensive new signings than they would be with someone coming up through the ranks though.
Definitely a trend for people to be more forgiving of expensive new signings than they would be with someone coming up through the ranks though.
No idea how you can distinguish end product from performances. All I can say for a fact is that he was a frustrating and inconsistent player for most of his United career. All the more so because of the really great 18 months or so when he wasn't frustrating and inconsistent.
Love it how you state your independent observation that might have nothing to do with the real state of facts and place it under 'definitely true' label.
Hilarious, right?
Perhaps I should have added from what I've seen to make it clear then. Just an observation though, not something that happens 'definitely'.
What you're talking about has basically happened with Anderson so far. The hype with Kagawa was to an extent justified and there's nothing wrong with having a good opinion on Herrera. Some expensive signings were quickly written off - people never had a hope with Bebe, Veron was quickly deemed unsuccessful and even someone like Berbatov got a lot of stick despite playing reasonably well and being a multimillion signing.
His decision making was never consistent. He is very talented, but really frustrating to watch and play with if the players faces can be used as proof. He upset the rhythm of of performances more often than not. The shame is he really is a player with the ability to win a gam on his own when he's in the right mood.
It is like we have to crush every new signings confidence and make them forget how to play football before we decide to put them back into the team. They can only rejoin when they forget to 1 touch pass and move, be creative, or actually have their own brain on the football field. 'What...you know how to execute a through ball??? Dropped - Not in my philosophy'
Fair points. I do think that inconsistency throughout performances can be fairly common in wingers, though. Di Maria is playing that same kind of way so far and I'm willing to give him patience in the knowledge that he does, and probably will, produce the numbers in spite of the errors. It's why Nani never pissed me off as much as he did others.
What? Blackett gets dogs abuse here for being shit. Rooney gets loads of abuse comapred to someone like Mata. Less said the better about the Tom Cleverley thread. The Anderson thread is positively pleasant when compared to the Cleverley one.
Blackett isn't rated because he's been awful for us, not because he's English. There are still people who believe he could be a useful player for us. Rooney is polarizing views, there are people who will never criticize him and there are people who consider him a little crap - likewise Mata.
Then why bring Blackett up at all?
To be fair you did say in earlier post it wouldn't matter if West Ham scored a goal or two from set pieces, because we will outscore them... Not sure why you think we would be capable of that, seen as though we struggle to score away from home. The balance thing is a difficult one, because some of the problems he has created himself, I'm not even entirely sure what he meant by it.
He has had some bright moments in games, has he had a full game where he has played well? lI don't think it is easy as saying put Herrera in the team and we will create more. I would much rather see a team which had Falcao, RVP, Rooney and Di Maria in, than sacrifice one of them for Herrera.
Disagree with you on that. I think LVG is playing it safe at the moment, and wants us to control games to make up for the defence. It's a logical approach, but i feel as though recently we have taken this to an extreme and it is stifling our creative players. Saturday was the first time in a while where we played with some freedom I don't think that's entirely the formation, I think it is also the style of play.
When was Herrera's last good game? You said Herrera can do no worse than Rooney, but can he do any better? I wouldn't drop Rooney because Herrera wouldnt do 'any worse' than him. Just doesn't make sense.
You have to wonder why LVG sanctioned a £30m (or whatever - don't bother correcting me pedants) transfer for Herrera as he doesn't seem to rate him. Did he just think "can't be any worse than Cleverley and Anderson - why not"
Last edited:
You've completely misunderstood me. I said whenever Ander's played he's improved us. I can't be bothered explaining how because if you go through this thread it will have been stated many times.
When I said he can do no worse than Rooney, it wasn't a compliment paid to Ander, it was a reference to how mediocre Rooney is in midfield. We have midfielders who can do a better job than Rooney in midfield. Play them. It's that simple.
Agree, yes we might be a bit more forgiving to a academy player but it's got nothing to do with the nationality! We take pride in our youth system, a commentator the other day said we have played a youth in every game since 1937 which I for 1 am very proud of!
Wayne in midfield vs. Ander in midfield is as comparable as Ander no9 vs Wayne no 9.
It's time for one of us to self-immolate on the steps of Old Trafford in a Herrera jersey.
There's no good reason he shouldn't have played in Rooney's spot with Rooney up top and one of RVP or Falcao coming off the bench.
There's no good reason he shouldn't have played in Rooney's spot with Rooney up top and one of RVP or Falcao coming off the bench.
You said in your post that you agreed me mentioning Rooney playing well against Newcastle wasn't valid cos it was a while ago... So out of interest when was Herrera's last good game?
He's clearly not mediocre in midfield. Id happily sacrifice Herrera's place in the team if it means we get to see Rooney, RVP, Falcao and Di Maria play together.
That's a silly approach. Packing your side with forwards doesn't make it exciting, it makes it unbalanced. Falcao and van Persie haven't exactly been brilliant this season.
As for Herrera's last good game it was a week ago when he got 20 minutes. Aside from 2 or 3 games he has been good in his very limited time on the pitch here.
Good grief you're thick aren't you. I already said Ander's looked good whenever he's played and his last time out was against Cambridge. The quality of our play improved, obviously so.
And you must be a fanboy to not see how mediocre Rooney is in midfield. Either play him up top or bench him. Re: the Newcastle game, if all you can do is cite it, it was more than a month ago as someone else said and we've not been great since.
Agree. Thought the one who has to be dropped isn't Rooney. Falcao, Mata, van Persie...
Not sure about Mata he's been improving lately. If it were up to me I'd drop Falcao and play Rooney and Persie up top.
You're right on the ball mate.
I get your point, but I don't blame LVG for trying it. I think Falcao and RVP have looked sharper and better recently.
This is my point. People are justifying playing Herrera due to a few cameo appearances. He's done ok in them, nothing special.
A 20 minute cameo against a league 2 side justifys his place in the team? And I'm the thick one? Yeah ok mate.
I'm far from a rooney fan boy I'm just looking at objectively. So basically the newcastle game just doesn't count because it goes against the argument that Rooney is poor in midfield?
I like rooney as a 10, think its his best position now. I think hes a square peg in a round hole when played deeper in midfield and theres no real future in that position for him (or the team).
He hasn't been getting many goals since hes been pulled back too and its something hes very good at and it seems a bit counterproductive to take away from the team.
Hes a decent square peg as far as these things go. I think i'd probably fellaini ahead of him in midfield though.
I can see the reasoning behind not picking hererra in midfield but i think its pretty disappointing. Maybe next summer when van gaal has had a chance to shuffle things around he'll get more games.
Think we've consistently looked much better with him in the team than without. We just seem much more mobile and the ball moves at a vaguely decent pace (and not always out wide!).
He hasn't been getting many goals since hes been pulled back too and its something hes very good at and it seems a bit counterproductive to take away from the team.
Hes a decent square peg as far as these things go. I think i'd probably fellaini ahead of him in midfield though.
I can see the reasoning behind not picking hererra in midfield but i think its pretty disappointing. Maybe next summer when van gaal has had a chance to shuffle things around he'll get more games.
Think we've consistently looked much better with him in the team than without. We just seem much more mobile and the ball moves at a vaguely decent pace (and not always out wide!).
Can't be too arsed reading through the whole conversation so it might be out of context, but Herrera has played really well and been amongst our best players on the pitch every time he's played, apart from the couple of times he played with a broken rib. Apart from that, he's always made a very positive impact on games.
The guy has an agenda for some reason, I have given up arguing with him.
I think it's just a difference in opinions. I don't think he has done well enough in his appearances to say that he justifys a place in the starting line up.
I don't have an agenda against him. I've said many times, I think he is a good player. My issue is people seem to think he is the saviour to our problems, with the issues are not as simple as move Rooney out of midfield put Herrera in. If was that simple do you not think LVG would have done it?
Also a few people on here overrate him when he comes on and plays a few one touch passes.
As I have said many times I don't see what he has done to merit a first team place.
- Status