[Kag]

Herrera seems to be getting rated higher and higher in here with every game he misses!

He isn't. Other than one mental comment that one of the usual suspects has quite rightly picked up on there isn't a great deal said about Herrera that is at all hyperbolic. The last time he started a game he helped us win it so there isn't a lot more he can do on the field.

He's a good player that should be playing more football than he is. This feeling is compounded by the awful reality of watching one of the world's best strikers frustrate in a position we seemingly brought Herrera here to play. Manchester United logic since about 2010.

 

[Señor]

Does he add height on corners? Is he a physical presence in midfield? Is he able to bring balls down on his chest and keep possession from kicks from the goalkeeper? In this current side, he's not automatically a better fit for Fellaini all the time.

I think Fellaini is a good player but he can barely do any of these except for the latter which I'm not sure why you're even mentioning as a skill. It's like a juggling act. If you're saying he's right for the hoof ball style of play, then fair enough, he is.

As for Blind, they perform different roles so aren't particularly battling out for the same position. He's not better than Rooney either, but then again we just seem to ignore all the qualities Rooney possesses to fit our own agendas so that's a moot point in the grand scheme of things.

He is better than Rooney. What does Rooney offer as a midfielder that Herrera doesn't? Hollywood balls and goals from midfield (which you'd expect as he is a striker) is all I can think of. He's bang average in midfield. I really can't fathom the idea that there are people who think Rooney is a viable option in midfield. He does a job but that's all it is. Herrera is an actual midfielder and if you think Rooney is better there, then you're either deluded about Rooney or you don't rate Herrera.

 

[NK86]

Does he add height on corners? Is he a physical presence in midfield? Is he able to bring balls down on his chest and keep possession from kicks from the goalkeeper? In this current side, he's not automatically a better fit for Fellaini all the time. As for Blind, they perform different roles so aren't particularly battling out for the same position. He's not better than Rooney either, but then again we just seem to ignore all the qualities Rooney possesses to fit our own agendas so that's a moot point in the grand scheme of things.

Rooney has been poor in midfield. How can anyone not see that? I agree that he may not be a better fit than Fellaini in certain games but then we should play Fellaini in midfield and push Rooney up top where is actually brilliant and was at the start of the season before VG decided he needed to fit all the three big name strikers in the starting 11. Play Herrera/Fellaini in Rooney's position (personally I would go for Herrera because he brings that dynamism in our midfield which we will lack with a Blind-Fellaini combo) and then play two up top between Falcao/RvP and Rooney. That will give us so much better balance than what we are seeing right now.

 

[Señor]

Tbf, someone on this page said he'd be the first name on the team sheet for every team in the world.

Yes but that's hyperbole and I don't think anyone, even the poster himself, seriously believes that. It does cancel out some of the shite spouted by the opposing Herrera bashers though.

You are right, some people have gone overboard, but I just think the lad is a lot better than what we have had recently. Our game seems to pick up when he is on the pitch. If LvG doesn't like risk takers then I am not sure he is a good fit as a manager of Manchester United. A lot of our play in the past has been based on willing to take a risk. We have never been pragmatic.

Can't say I disagree with any of that.

 

[Sied]

He isn't. Other than one mental comment that one of the usual suspects has quite rightly picked up on there isn't a great deal said about Herrera that is at all hyperbolic. The last time he started a game he helped us win it so there isn't a lot more he can do on the field.

He's a good player that should be playing more football than he is. This feeling is compounded by the awful reality of watching one of the world's best strikers frustrate in a position we seemingly brought Herrera here to play. Manchester United logic since about 2010.

There isn't a way to shuffle the team around without another thread getting bumped by posters bewildered by why their favourite player isn't getting picked.

The reality of the situation is that we have such a strong squad that Herrera is struggling to get game time. If Rooney gets bumped up to #10 or striker, the Mata or Falcao thread will be bumped with posters demanding their return instead. Whichever thread it may be, the same posts get more vocal with every passing week that said player isn't getting picked.

 

[NK86]

Is it not at all possible that maybe van Gaals plans stretch further than this season, and he'll infact become an important player in a different system once we have a settled squad?

Who could he have possibly played instead of yesterday? Januzaj? So when Januzaj doesn't play we get worried van Gaals wasting his potential. Di Maria? Why would we spend so much on a world class player if we aren't going to play him? Falcao? Then we moan that Falcao isn't playing.

Contrary to popular belief, we can only field 11 players a game, and games are something we are also short of this season.

I don't know where you saw people complaining about Falcao not playing. He has been a regular fixture in the starting 11 whenever fit. In fact most on here would prefer to see one of RvP/Falcao dropped with Rooney taking their place and Herrera in Rooney's position. Would add much better bite to our attack and give much needed balance to our team.

 

[Devil may care]

There isn't a way to shuffle the team around without another thread getting bumped by posters bewildered by why their favourite player isn't getting picked.

The reality of the situation is that we have such a strong squad that Herrera is struggling to get game time. If Rooney gets bumped up to #10 or striker, the Mata or Falcao thread will be bumped with posters demanding their return instead. Whichever thread it may be, the same posts get more vocal with every passing week that said player isn't getting picked.

I don't think so, if we moved Rooney up top and benched RvP or Falcao and played Herrera, an actual CM, in midfield I think most would be happy.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

There isn't a way to shuffle the team around without another thread getting bumped by posters bewildered by why their favourite player isn't getting picked.

The reality of the situation is that we have such a strong squad that Herrera is struggling to get game time. If Rooney gets bumped up to #10 or striker, the Mata or Falcao thread will be bumped with posters demanding their return instead. Whichever thread it may be, the same posts get more vocal with every passing week that said player isn't getting picked.

That is the problem with lack of games in a season. Next season there will be lots of games to go round, even if they are Europa League games.

 

[NK86]

There isn't a way to shuffle the team around without another thread getting bumped by posters bewildered by why their favourite player isn't getting picked.

The reality of the situation is that we have such a strong squad that Herrera is struggling to get game time. If Rooney gets bumped up to #10 or striker, the Mata or Falcao thread will be bumped with posters demanding their return instead. Whichever thread it may be, the same posts get more vocal with every passing week that said player isn't getting picked.

But the problem here is one of our best attackers is being played out of position and we are nullifying a lot of his threat when he plays up front. So we are wasting two good players by either playing them in a completely wrong position or not playing them at all.

 

[PSingh]

About who to drop, I'd play Herrera in midfield instead of Rooney. I have no idea what Rooney is doing there. Who'd then play in attack is for a different thread, but as I see it Herrera is a far better midfielder than Rooney. At times we desperate lack pace in our attacks and I think Herrera is one of our best (if not the best) players when it comes to pass-and-move football. He always seem to think a couple of passes ahead and be on the move before the ball has even left his feet.

Hmm, Rooney has done well in midfield for us IMO. Okay, he's not been Fabregas but that is not his role, he provides some power from midfield. Also his two goals against Newcastle show how effective he can be when he is running from deep. I agree, Herrera is good link up player, his first thought is usually to go forward and then receive the ball again. But we also have to take into account what match we are playing. Yesterday against Leicester at home, I would be pretty pissed off if we had played with one striker, for some unknown reason LVG doesn't want to play Rooney up front, so it made sense why Herrera didn't play.

He should play against Cambridge but I can't see him playing against West Ham next week. No doubt Fellaini will be in there for his height- which again makes perfect sense why he should play over Herrera.

One of Falcao or Van Persie. Or both. They were both ok, neither were great, both are relatively old, been shite for the vast majority of the season, offer pretty much the same thing going forward in that if they don't score then they are relatively useless. We would be much better as a team if we just pushed Rooney up to his normal position as a striker, and put in Herrera in midfield, or both Herrera and mata in for RvP and Falcao. Neither have impressed at all.

Disagree with you on that. RVP is our top scorer it wouldn't make sense to drop him. Falcao is starting to find some form and showing glimpses of what we first expected, I can't see him getting dropped for the sake of Herrera either. I think both RVP and Falcao had good games yesterday it was one of the few times this season we have managed to create chances for them and they both scored. Hardly a coincidence. Wouldn't make sense to drop either now that they are finding some form.

Never heard this - always struck me as a guy with a great attitude. Any links?

I'm not sure to be honest, like I said I have seen it mentioned on here a few times and in the United Rant podcast. No idea if there is any truth in the rumours, I agree he seems like a top guy with a good attitude.

 

[PSingh]

That is the problem with lack of games in a season. Next season there will be lots of games to go round, even if they are Europa League games.

Agree with that, which is why it makes no sense when people suggest we sell him. He will get plenty of games next season.

 

[Sied]

I don't think so, if we moved Rooney up top and benched RvP or Falcao and played Herrera, an actual CM, in midfield I think most would be happy.

But the problem here is one of our best attackers is being played out of position and we are nullifying a lot of his threat when he plays up front. So we are wasting two good players by either playing them in a completely wrong position or not playing them at all.

Perhaps I'm referring to a vocal minority when I say this, but we've already been through the same thing with Falcao, di Maria, Januzaj, Carrick, and even Shaw and Rafael to a lesser extent (although admittedly that was mostly in the hope that their return would bring back the back 4). I remember reading posts in all of these players threads from posters either bemused why they weren't playing, or assuming we'll suddenly drastically improve with their return from injury. When they finally were picked it made very little difference to our performances.

Rooney being played as a striker and Herrera returning to the center is just the latest of these caf fads imo. Just like the return of all these other players, it's not going to suddenly have us playing superb football unfortunately.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Agree with that, which is why it makes no sense when people suggest we sell him. He will get plenty of games next season.

Exactly, we are building a squad and he is a component. Just we need more of them and to get rid of others. He will be a vital squad member and he knows he is a member of a squad.

 

[ChrisG11]

I think Fellaini is a good player but he can barely do any of these except for the latter which I'm not sure why you're even mentioning as a skill. It's like a juggling act. If you're saying he's right for the hoof ball style of play, then fair enough, he is.


He is better than Rooney. What does Rooney offer as a midfielder that Herrera doesn't? Hollywood balls and goals from midfield (which you'd expect as he is a striker) is all I can think of. He's bang average in midfield. I really can't fathom the idea that there are people who think Rooney is a viable option in midfield. He does a job but that's all it is. Herrera is an actual midfielder and if you think Rooney is better there, then you're either deluded about Rooney or you don't rate Herrera.

Barely do any of them? He's physical and he's big, they are things that he is, not things he can do. In the first half of the season, we played with inexperienced CBs in an unfamiliar system. It meant that teams would press high, especially away from home, which would lead to going back to De Gea a lot. Having Fellaini on the pitch helps a lot because he's able to bring the ball down and allow us to keep possession in the opponents half. We are also shit on corners, so having Fellaini there helps defensively. Since we've got defenders back he's not played, he hasn't started a league game since Liverpool 14th December.

With regards to Rooney, bar the odd sloppy pass he does well in midfield. Switching the play allows us to attack with space in the final third and use the width effectively, something that's hard to create otherwise in wingback formations. He's a big goal threat from midfield obviously, but also teams will plan to nullify Rooney which is likely to present opportunities for our other talented players. I don't think opponents would focus on Herrera the same way. He's been better than Di Maria anyway for example, who loses the ball an incredible amount of times from "Hollywood" decisions to shoot or pass, plus he's better defensively. Of course though, Di Maria is our new £60million signing so we couldn't suggest dropping him. To which people will then inform me about all Di Maria's qualities and I'll agree because I'm a big fan of his, but of course if I talk about Rooneys qualities it'd get downplayed.

Herrera is our best midfielder I'd say in terms of keeping the ball and making correct decisions, wonderfully tidy player. In our current system though, we need players that are going to making things happen spontaneously because, as we can see, we never look like creating a lot. Herrera can pick a pass and can finish, but is he more likely to win a game than Rooney or Di Maria? I wouldn't say so.

 

[Kag]

There isn't a way to shuffle the team around without another thread getting bumped by posters bewildered by why their favourite player isn't getting picked.

The reality of the situation is that we have such a strong squad that Herrera is struggling to get game time. If Rooney gets bumped up to #10 or striker, the Mata or Falcao thread will be bumped with posters demanding their return instead. Whichever thread it may be, the same posts get more vocal with every passing week that said player isn't getting picked.

Really? If one of Van Persie or Falcao are dropped and we start to look for some balance instead of fielding all of our superstars I think the general consensus will be positive. I think our football would improve, too. I'm not just talking about Herrera here, Fellaini was also sat on the bench yesterday. He's another player that would benefit the team more so than the Van Persie, Falcao and Rooney vanity exhibition.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Barely do any of them? He's physical and he's big, they are things that he is, not things he can do. In the first half of the season, we played with inexperienced CBs in an unfamiliar system. It meant that teams would press high, especially away from home, which would lead to going back to De Gea a lot. Having Fellaini on the pitch helps a lot because he's able to bring the ball down and allow us to keep possession in the opponents half. We are also shit on corners, so having Fellaini there helps defensively. Since we've got defenders back he's not played, he hasn't started a league game since Liverpool 14th December.

With regards to Rooney, bar the odd sloppy pass he does well in midfield. Switching the play allows us to attack with space in the final third and use the width effectively, something that's hard to create otherwise in wingback formations. He's a big goal threat from midfield obviously, but also teams will plan to nullify Rooney which is likely to present opportunities for our other talented players. I don't think opponents would focus on Herrera the same way. He's been better than Di Maria anyway for example, who loses the ball an incredible amount of times from "Hollywood" decisions to shoot or pass, plus he's better defensively. Of course though, Di Maria is our new £60million signing so we couldn't suggest dropping him. To which people will then inform me about all Di Maria's qualities and I'll agree because I'm a big fan of his, but of course if I talk about Rooneys qualities it'd get downplayed.

Herrera is our best midfielder I'd say in terms of keeping the ball and making correct decisions, wonderfully tidy player. In our current system though, we need players that are going to making things happen spontaneously because, as we can see, we never look like creating a lot. Herrera can pick a pass and can finish, but is he more likely to win a game than Rooney or Di Maria? I wouldn't say so.

When was the last time Rooney scored? Boxing Day I think, not exactly prolific. Herrera scored that beauty against Yeovil, he was lucky the pass came through to him, but everything after that was sheer ingenuity.

 

[ChrisG11]

I don't know where you saw people complaining about Falcao not playing. He has been a regular fixture in the starting 11 whenever fit. In fact most on here would prefer to see one of RvP/Falcao dropped with Rooney taking their place and Herrera in Rooney's position. Would add much better bite to our attack and give much needed balance to our team.

In fairness, I'm basing that on the United fans I know rather than the ones on here, I only returned to the caf against a day or two ago. Nevertheless, I'm a firm believer that our lack of creativity is due to the limitations of the formation, and Herrera still would make too much of a difference at this point in time.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Really? If one of Van Persie or Falcao are dropped and we start to look for some balance instead of fielding all of our superstars I think the general consensus will be positive. I think our football would improve, too. I'm not just talking about Herrera here, Fellaini was also sat on the bench yesterday. He's another player that would benefit the team more so than the Van Persie, Falcao and Rooney vanity exhibition.

I am glad it is no longer Fellaini against Herrera, I actually agree that they both bring something to the team. I thought after Carrick being injured they would both start yesterday.

 

[ChrisG11]

When was the last time Rooney scored? Boxing Day I think, not exactly prolific. Herrera scored that beauty against Yeovil, he was lucky the pass came through to him, but everything after that was sheer ingenuity.

He's still a goal threat though nonetheless, at the end of the day he is playing in midfield so he's not going to be scoring every game. He went on droughts when he was a striker but you'd still play him because he was likely to score. And yes, it was a delightful goal from Herrera and as I've acknowledged, he is capable of that. More so than Rooney? Not for me.

 

[Kag]

I am glad it is no longer Fellaini against Herrera, I actually agree that they both bring something to the team. I thought after Carrick being injured they would both start yesterday.

I'd play them together on Tuesday, personally. Blind just in behind them.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He should start ahead of a Januszaj

 

[Sied]

Really? If one of Van Persie or Falcao are dropped and we start to look for some balance instead of fielding all of our superstars I think the general consensus will be positive. I think our football would improve, too. I'm not just talking about Herrera here, Fellaini was also sat on the bench yesterday. He's another player that would benefit the team more so than the Van Persie, Falcao and Rooney vanity exhibition.

I think this sort of opinion is driven by a 'the grass is always greener' attitude. As I said above, fans were desperate for Falcao to return but when he did it actually made little difference. There were plenty of people happy to see Rooney get a 3 game ban so that Mata could have his chance. Again, it made next to no difference with our overall performances.

Our problems won't simply be solved by moving Rooney up top and bringing Herrera in. They are more deep seated than that. We'll see improvements as the players continue to gel, adapt to the 'philosophy', and/or when LVG brings in a player who proves to be the missing piece.

 

[ChrisG11]

I think this sort of opinion is driven by a 'the grass is always greener' attitude. As I said above, fans were desperate for Falcao to return but when he did it actually made little difference. There were plenty of people happy to see Rooney get a 3 game ban so that Mata could have his chance. Again, it made next to no difference with our overall performances.

Our problems won't simply be solved by moving Rooney up top and bringing Herrera in. They are more deep seated than that. We'll see improvements as the players continue to gel, adapt to the 'philosophy', and/or when LVG brings in a player who proves to be the missing piece.

Totally agree.

 

[Kag]

I think this sort of opinion is driven by a 'the grass is always greener' attitude. As I said above, fans were desperate for Falcao to return but when he did it actually made little difference. There were plenty of people happy to see Rooney get a 3 game ban so that Mata could have his chance. Again, it made next to no difference with our overall performances.

Our problems won't simply be solved by moving Rooney up top and bringing Herrera in. They are more deep seated than that. We'll see improvements as the players continue to gel, adapt to the 'philosophy', and/or when LVG brings in a player who proves to be the missing piece.

It's driven by having watched Rooney and Van Persie fail to deliver in the same team for almost three seasons, to be honest. Now we've simply added Falcao to confuse things further.

Something has to change. I'm going off on a tangent somewhat with my focus on Rooney, but if we continue to persist with him in central midfield and the aforementioned one-paced strikers then nothing will change. I think things will get worse, and I fear for our top four chances and Van Gaal's job.

I'm not explicitly arguing that Herrera is the catalyst for all that change, but the simple act of playing our players in the correct positions will benefit the team enormously.

We can be a better side than what we see now, and dropping a striker and playing Herrera, or even Fellaini, in midfield is something I think will help that happen. If you think that is a grass is greener complex then I respect your stance but I'm inclined to disagree.

 

[Wowi]

Hmm, Rooney has done well in midfield for us IMO. Okay, he's not been Fabregas but that is not his role, he provides some power from midfield. Also his two goals against Newcastle show how effective he can be when he is running from deep. I agree, Herrera is good link up player, his first thought is usually to go forward and then receive the ball again. But we also have to take into account what match we are playing. Yesterday against Leicester at home, I would be pretty pissed off if we had played with one striker, for some unknown reason LVG doesn't want to play Rooney up front, so it made sense why Herrera didn't play.

I don't really see how Rooney provides "power", but I guess that's one of the phrases that has been used for him before and it seems to stick. He doesn't really provide any more "power" than most other midfielder. He doesn't do crunching tackles like Keane and without looking at stats I don't think he runs further than most other midfielders. And apart from a few good long ranged passes his passing isn't great either. We've played a lot of games since the Newcastle game and in most of them he's been plain average. Let's not forget that Herrera has gotten a few goals from midfield as well. Basically, I don't think Rooney offers anything extra in midfield compared to Herrera. Rooney's long passing might be better, but he's no Scholes and quite often it doesn't actually reach his target.

I generally don't get this whole "Rooney in midfield". He has a good game there once in a while and that apparently means he's good there and should play there because he's capable of a great game once in a while. The fact that you mention the Newcastle game, which happened more than a month ago, rather than one of his recent games in midfield says a lot.

He should play against Cambridge but I can't see him playing against West Ham next week. No doubt Fellaini will be in there for his height- which again makes perfect sense why he should play over Herrera.

Completely disagree. We shouldn't have to adapt our tactics for a team like West Ham, and apart from actually looking like a footballer for a week or two a while ago Fellaini has been useless. He'll probably start because LVG sees it the same way as you do though, but then again LVG's approach seems to be safety first.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I don't really see how Rooney provides "power", but I guess that's one of the phrases that has been used for him before and it seems to stick. He doesn't really provide any more "power" than most other midfielder. He doesn't do crunching tackles like Keane and without looking at stats I don't think he runs further than most other midfielders. And apart from a few good long ranged passes his passing isn't great either. We've played a lot of games since the Newcastle game and in most of them he's been plain average. Let's not forget that Herrera has gotten a few goals from midfield as well. Basically, I don't think Rooney offers anything extra in midfield compared to Herrera. Rooney's long passing might be better, but he's no Scholes and quite often it doesn't actually reach his target.

I generally don't get this whole "Rooney in midfield". He has a good game there once in a while and that apparently means he's good there and should play there because he's capable of a great game once in a while. The fact that you mention the Newcastle game, which happened more than a month ago, rather than one of his recent games in midfield says a lot.

Completely disagree. We shouldn't have to adapt our tactics for a team like West Ham, and apart from actually looking like a footballer for a week or two a while ago Fellaini has been useless. He'll probably start because LVG sees it the same way as you do though, but then again LVG's approach seems to be safety first.

Even John O'Shea had a good game in midfield now and again, but you wouldn't have played him there all the time.

 

[PSingh]

I don't really see how Rooney provides "power", but I guess that's one of the phrases that has been used for him before and it seems to stick. He doesn't really provide any more "power" than most other midfielder. He doesn't do crunching tackles like Keane and without looking at stats I don't think he runs further than most other midfielders. And apart from a few good long ranged passes his passing isn't great either. We've played a lot of games since the Newcastle game and in most of them he's been plain average. Let's not forget that Herrera has gotten a few goals from midfield as well. Basically, I don't think Rooney offers anything extra in midfield compared to Herrera. Rooney's long passing might be better, but he's no Scholes and quite often it doesn't actually reach his target.

I generally don't get this whole "Rooney in midfield". He has a good game there once in a while and that apparently means he's good there and should play there because he's capable of a great game once in a while. The fact that you mention the Newcastle game, which happened more than a month ago, rather than one of his recent games in midfield says a lot.

Completely disagree. We shouldn't have to adapt our tactics for a team like West Ham, and apart from actually looking like a footballer for a week or two a while ago Fellaini has been useless. He'll probably start because LVG sees it the same way as you do though, but then again LVG's approach seems to be safety first.

I didn't mean it in the terms of tackling that he provides power from midfield... I meant that his ability to run from deep brings power to the midfield, he is one of our strongest players. Rooney offers leadership from midfield as well, let's not forget he is our captain. Okay since the Newcastle game we have played 5 Premier League games. According to Squawka he had the highest performance score of all our players in that 5 game period (the stats it focuses on: Appearances; Goals; Shot Accuracy; Squawka Awards; Chances Created; Pass Accuracy; Pass Length; Duels won; Defensive Actions; Defensive Errors and Cards).

Stats can sometimes be misleading but okay, the team has suffered a decrease in performance level in that 5 game period- however the stats show that Rooney has been our best player in that period. So tell me how Rooney has been average in midfield? His performances have not been outstanding but that is a result of the whole team playing poorly not just him. I don't see how putting Herrera in the team would have helped that.

Your last point is ridiculous. If you adapt the team how do you expect to win games? We know West Ham are strong in the air, we lack height makes perfect sense to play Fellaini. The useless Fellaini who has the same pass accuracy as Herrera and one more goal? (Fellaini has had one more appearance). I criticised Fellaini a lot last year, but give credit where its due- he has performed well this season and is becoming an important squad member.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I didn't mean it in the terms of tackling that he provides power from midfield... I meant that his ability to run from deep brings power to the midfield, he is one of our strongest players. Rooney offers leadership from midfield as well, let's not forget he is our captain. Okay since the Newcastle game we have played 5 Premier League games. According to Squawka he had the highest performance score of all our players in that 5 game period (the stats it focuses on: Appearances; Goals; Shot Accuracy; Squawka Awards; Chances Created; Pass Accuracy; Pass Length; Duels won; Defensive Actions; Defensive Errors and Cards).

Stats can sometimes be misleading but okay, the team has suffered a decrease in performance level in that 5 game period- however the stats show that Rooney has been our best player in that period. So tell me how Rooney has been average in midfield? His performances have not been outstanding but that is a result of the whole team playing poorly not just him. I don't see how putting Herrera in the team would have helped that.

Your last point is ridiculous. If you adapt the team how do you expect to win games? We know West Ham are strong in the air, we lack height makes perfect sense to play Fellaini. The useless Fellaini who has the same pass accuracy as Herrera and one more goal? (Fellaini has had one more appearance). I criticised Fellaini a lot last year, but give credit where its due- he has performed well this season and is becoming an important squad member.

I can understand you saying Fellaini should play against West Ham, I don't have a problem with it. Ander is good when you have a team who are happy to just let us have the ball, because until yesterday, Carrick's injury might actually have helped, we have been far too slow in our buildup. LvG has even commented on it. These teams were quite happy for us to pass the ball to death because they knew we would just pass it backwards. There was nobody to speed the passing up once we got to the edge of the area, Ander is that man. That is why I would have been happy for him to come on later yesterday, once we had taken the sting out of the game to just provide Leicester with something to worry about. Yet he made the changes and they actually managed to score.

 

[PSingh]

I can understand you saying Fellaini should play against West Ham, I don't have a problem with it. Ander is good when you have a team who are happy to just let us have the ball, because until yesterday, Carrick's injury might actually have helped, we have been far too slow in our buildup. LvG has even commented on it. These teams were quite happy for us to pass the ball to death because they knew we would just pass it backwards. There was nobody to speed the passing up once we got to the edge of the area, Ander is that man. That is why I would have been happy for him to come on later yesterday, once we had taken the sting out of the game to just provide Leicester with something to worry about. Yet he made the changes and they actually managed to score.

Yep, been banging on about it for a while, its not the formation we play it is the playing style. We have been too slow and too safe in recent weeks, yesterday was the first time we took the shackles (for the first half). I would have liked to see Herrera come on but I'm not sure the subs LVG made cost us a goal. For the whole second half we invited them onto us and tried to use Di Maria's pace for a counter attack.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yep, been banging on about it for a while, its not the formation we play it is the playing style. We have been too slow and too safe in recent weeks, yesterday was the first time we took the shackles (for the first half). I would have liked to see Herrera come on but I'm not sure the subs LVG made cost us a goal. For the whole second half we invited them onto us and tried to use Di Maria's pace for a counter attack.

That 2nd half might work against Leicester, I know it didn't at their place, but I would worry about us inviting a top side to attack like that.

 

[PSingh]

That 2nd half might work against Leicester, I know it didn't at their place, but I would worry about us inviting a top side to attack like that.

Exactly, it was frustrating yesterday because we could have easily put another goal or two past them.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Exactly, it was frustrating yesterday because we could have easily put another goal or two past them.

It would have been a joy to put another goal or two past them, they deserve it.

 

[Wowi]

I didn't mean it in the terms of tackling that he provides power from midfield... I meant that his ability to run from deep brings power to the midfield, he is one of our strongest players. Rooney offers leadership from midfield as well, let's not forget he is our captain. Okay since the Newcastle game we have played 5 Premier League games. According to Squawka he had the highest performance score of all our players in that 5 game period (the stats it focuses on: Appearances; Goals; Shot Accuracy; Squawka Awards; Chances Created; Pass Accuracy; Pass Length; Duels won; Defensive Actions; Defensive Errors and Cards).

Stats can sometimes be misleading but okay, the team has suffered a decrease in performance level in that 5 game period- however the stats show that Rooney has been our best player in that period. So tell me how Rooney has been average in midfield? His performances have not been outstanding but that is a result of the whole team playing poorly not just him. I don't see how putting Herrera in the team would have helped that.

A big part of our problems is the pace in our attacks and the link-up play with our strikers. This is obviously not entirely Rooney's fault, but our team in general has been unbalanced in a lot of games, and I just don't see how playing a striker in midfield helps that when we have actual midfielders on the bench. Furthermore I think Herrera has generally helped put pace in our attacks whenever he's come on. Since you bring up stats, Rooney's passing accuracy in PL games since Newcastle is 80%. As far as I can see from the "performance score" on Squawka he's 4th, behind Jones, Blind and Valencia and actually getting negative points in possession. I have no idea how the performance score is actually determined and I don't really care about it, but since you brought it up. So no, not even stats seem to show that he's been our best player.

If you look at caf ratings though, you'll see average ratings in every game since the Newcastle one. I honestly value that higher than some random formula Squawka put together, particularly since that formula puts Valencia as one of our best players.

Your last point is ridiculous. If you adapt the team how do you expect to win games? We know West Ham are strong in the air, we lack height makes perfect sense to play Fellaini. The useless Fellaini who has the same pass accuracy as Herrera and one more goal? (Fellaini has had one more appearance). I criticised Fellaini a lot last year, but give credit where its due- he has performed well this season and is becoming an important squad member.

I'm assuming you're missing a "don't" here, right? I'm all for adapting when it's needed, but as United we shouldn't have to adapt against West Ham. Even if we do concede a goal or even two from set-pieces we should set out to outscore them. The way Fergie played for large parts of his time. He adapted his tactics for Europe and big games in the league, but not against the likes of West Ham. I don't think "height" is a proper reason to pick one midfielder over another. As for your passing stats - it's stats. Fellaini has 0 assists and less than a third of Herrera's key passes, despite playing more games. But then again, LVG seems content with moving the ball sideways in midfield and Fellaini is, usually, capable of doing that.

To be honest, I wouldn't really have an issue if this was a one-time thing - playing Fellaini against West Ham does make sense, and if he's not going to play in that sort of game I don't see when he should. I'm just getting sick of this safety-first approach. LVG getting a twitchy ass from the 4-4-2 because we're giving chances away etc. Moyes got ridiculed for "trying to make it hard" for Newcastle, but playing Fellaini against West Ham is basically the same thing - try to make it hard for them. Fellaini is a United player, and because of that I obviously want him to do well, but I don't see how we can play attractive football while playing to his strengths. Herrera on the other hand fits perfectly as I see it, which is why I'm desperate for him to get a proper run in the team.

 

[PSingh]

I'm assuming you're missing a "don't" here, right? I'm all for adapting when it's needed, but as United we shouldn't have to adapt against West Ham. Even if we do concede a goal or even two from set-pieces we should set out to outscore them. The way Fergie played for large parts of his time. He adapted his tactics for Europe and big games in the league, but not against the likes of West Ham. I don't think "height" is a proper reason to pick one midfielder over another. As for your passing stats - it's stats. Fellaini has 0 assists and less than a third of Herrera's key passes, despite playing more games. But then again, LVG seems content with moving the ball sideways in midfield and Fellaini is, usually, capable of doing that.

To be honest, I wouldn't really have an issue if this was a one-time thing - playing Fellaini against West Ham does make sense, and if he's not going to play in that sort of game I don't see when he should. I'm just getting sick of this safety-first approach. LVG getting a twitchy ass from the 4-4-2 because we're giving chances away etc. Moyes got ridiculed for "trying to make it hard" for Newcastle, but playing Fellaini against West Ham is basically the same thing - try to make it hard for them. Fellaini is a United player, and because of that I obviously want him to do well, but I don't see how we can play attractive football while playing to his strengths. Herrera on the other hand fits perfectly as I see it, which is why I'm desperate for him to get a proper run in the team.

Ah I got the stats wrong, they showed Rooney as being the best player for the past 23 games, not the 5 we was talking about, my bad.

Yeah the don't was missing. The issue with your logic is we are not scoring enough goals away from home for us to have a 'gung ho' approach. We are not the same team we used to be when we had Sir Alex the quicker we accept that, the easier the transition will be.

Ah so you want Herrera in the team because his playing style is easy on the eye? That's a fair comment, I'm all for us playing an attractive style of play.

But for this season, I couldn't care less how we played as long as we keep winning. The priority is to get into the top four this season, the attractive football can come after that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Ah I got the stats wrong, they showed Rooney as being the best player for the past 23 games, not the 5 we was talking about, my bad.

Yeah the don't was missing. The issue with your logic is we are not scoring enough goals away from home for us to have a 'gung ho' approach. We are not the same team we used to be when we had Sir Alex the quicker we accept that, the easier the transition will be.

Ah so you want Herrera in the team because his playing style is easy on the eye? That's a fair comment, I'm all for us playing an attractive style of play.

But for this season, I couldn't care less how we played as long as we keep winning. The priority is to get into the top four this season, the attractive football can come after that.

I don't think Herrera will get as much time until he gets the defence sorted. The defence needs sorting no matter what, but it will benefit Herrera and maybe allow him and ADM to play without worrying about the defensive side as well.

 

[Wowi]

Ah I got the stats wrong, they showed Rooney as being the best player for the past 23 games, not the 5 we was talking about, my bad.

Yeah the don't was missing. The issue with your logic is we are not scoring enough goals away from home for us to have a 'gung ho' approach. We are not the same team we used to be when we had Sir Alex the quicker we accept that, the easier the transition will be.

Ah so you want Herrera in the team because his playing style is easy on the eye? That's a fair comment, I'm all for us playing an attractive style of play.

But for this season, I couldn't care less how we played as long as we keep winning. The priority is to get into the top four this season, the attractive football can come after that.

I know it's not the same team, but that doesn't mean it always has to be safety first. I'm not exactly suggesting gung ho either - I'm suggesting that we use a player I think would fit well in the team and is actually a midfielder. LVG talks a lot about balance and so on, but he's not making it easier for himself by using square pegs for round holes over and over - Rooney in midfield and Di Maria as striker etc.

Yes, my main reason for wanting Herrera on the pitch is that I love his style and I'd like to see more of it. Quick passes, lots of movement - can't get enough of it. Winning is obviously important but it's not like the two things are mutually exclusive. We have a big problem actually creating chances at the moment (putting three past the bottom side doesn't really change that alone) which inevitably makes winning a lot harder, and from what I've seen having Herrera on the pitch helps us create more. The way I see it is that the attractive football Herrera offers will also make it easier to win, which is why I simply don't understand why he's not getting a proper chance.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I know it's not the same team, but that doesn't mean it always has to be safety first. I'm not exactly suggesting gung ho either - I'm suggesting that we use a player I think would fit well in the team and is actually a midfielder. LVG talks a lot about balance and so on, but he's not making it easier for himself by using square pegs for round holes over and over - Rooney in midfield and Di Maria as striker etc.

Yes, my main reason for wanting Herrera on the pitch is that I love his style and I'd like to see more of it. Quick passes, lots of movement - can't get enough of it. Winning is obviously important but it's not like the two things are mutually exclusive. We have a big problem actually creating chances at the moment (putting three past the bottom side doesn't really change that alone) which inevitably makes winning a lot harder, and from what I've seen having Herrera on the pitch helps us create more. The way I see it is that the attractive football Herrera offers will also make it easier to win, which is why I simply don't understand why he's not getting a proper chance.

Because LvG has ended up under more pressure than he thought he would be, due to injuries, not strengthening the defence when he should have, instead having ADM and Falcao handed to him and also down to decisions he has chosen to make. A lot of this is his own doing. He knows his job might be in jeopardy if we don't get Top 4 so good football has gone out of the window and it is safety first.

 

[Wowi]

Because LvG has ended up under more pressure than he thought he would be, due to injuries, not strengthening the defence when he should have, instead having ADM and Falcao handed to him and also down to decisions he has chosen to make. A lot of this is his own doing. He knows his job might be in jeopardy if we don't get Top 4 so good football has gone out of the window and it is safety first.

Yeah, I think you're right, and as you say in another post Herrera might well get more chances once we get the defence sorted properly. I can easily see us playing much better football next season and I hope Herrera will be a part of that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah, I think you're right, and as you say in another post Herrera might well get more chances once we get the defence sorted properly. I can easily see us playing much better football next season and I hope Herrera will be a part of that.

I think he will be. There will be players going, but we cannot go through yet another major overhaul, or it will be even more players that have to learn how LvG wants to operate.

 

[Gannicus]

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Herrera is the next Zidane, but FFS we have a proper midfielder on the squad and we're playing Rooney as a midfielder instead.

What's causing this mess is the perceived need to play Falcao with RvP, which then requires we play Roo out of position and Herrera rots on the bench while we create few scoring chances.

Roo has done a job, but he's being wasted in midfield. Herrera is being wasted on the bench.