Amorim: «We are maybe the worst team in Man United history»

[Jacob]

Do we know for a fact that he caused drama and damage in the dressing room?

 

[Pickle85]

You are comparing managers from different eras, Fergie in the 80', Mourinho in the 2000' and Slot nowadays at different clubs and that came in different circumstances. I really do not see any point in this comparison. There are also managers like Villas Boas who came from Portugal and was a disaster, Juande Ramos or Frank de Boer.

I am not judging Amorim because he came from Portugal, I am judging him based on what he showed so far at Manchester United. Our recent history post Fergie showed that we allowed managers enough time to show their true colors. Not once has a manager been given an unwarrantable sack and I'm sure Amorim will get the same treatment. If anything, we allowed managers to underachieve more than it was needed.

When a new manager comes at a club and he is worse than the previous underperformer manager, I start to get a little worried.

I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to argue for here. You say 'I am not judging Amorim because he came from Portugal, I am judging him based on what he showed so far at Manchester United.' and then go on to say 'Not once has a manager been given an unwarrantable sack and I'm sure Amorim will get the same treatment.' which seems to agree that judging him this soon doesn't make sense.

As for the bolded, as I've said a number of times it was intended to illustrate a broader point, and one that you seem to agree with when you say 'You are comparing managers from different eras, Fergie in the 80', Mourinho in the 2000' and Slot nowadays at different clubs and that came in different circumstances' - that coming from a weaker league is no indication of a lack of quality (or otherwise) as a previous poster suggested.

 

[Halfquarter]

Probably Amorim is correct in saying that this is the worst United team in history, but where does that
leave players like Rashford ,for example ,who can’t even get on the substitute’s bench of the worst ever United team ?

 

[Posh Red]

Do we know for a fact that he caused drama and damage in the dressing room?

Didn’t it come from Lauri Whitwell? If so, you can assume it’s true.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I'm struggling to understand what you're trying to argue for here. You say 'I am not judging Amorim because he came from Portugal, I am judging him based on what he showed so far at Manchester United.' and then go on to say 'Not once has a manager been given an unwarrantable sack and I'm sure Amorim will get the same treatment.' which seems to agree that judging him this soon doesn't make sense.

As for the bolded, as I've said a number of times it was intended to illustrate a broader point, and one that you seem to agree with when you say 'You are comparing managers from different eras, Fergie in the 80', Mourinho in the 2000' and Slot nowadays at different clubs and that came in different circumstances' - that coming from a weaker league is no indication of a lack of quality (or otherwise) as a previous poster suggested.

I think that a manager gets judged/discussed/commented etc immediately after being appointed at any big club, especially Manchester United. It is a big difference between being judged and getting sacked.
And about the fact that he is coming from a weaker league, it really doesn't matter, I said that already, what matters are the results at the new and bigger job.

 

[Kostov]

Who in their right mind can argue that this is the worst Manchester United side in recent history? Apart from some compromised incompetent football men like ETH, Murtough etc.

 

[D. Grayson]

Chelsea got to a champions league final with Avram grant in charge, who played Essien at right back in the final.

José's blueprint was in place, and he didn't try to change the way they played. When AVB came in and attempted to alter things, the outcome wasn't positive.

 

[Pickle85]

I think that a manager gets judged/discussed/commented etc immediately after being appointed at any big club, especially Manchester United. It is a big difference between being judged and getting sacked.
And about the fact that he is coming from a weaker league, it really doesn't matter, I said that already, what matters are the results at the new and bigger job.

Comments are fine but judgments are premature.

 

[noodlehair]

This has always been a red flag for me with managers, I still reserve judgement on Amorim. But in general having watched football for 30+ years I've yet to see anything to convince me that playing a 3 at the back formation has any tangible benefit over back 4 formations.

Yeah my post comes across harsher on him than intended, but I think that's the basic end game. The formation and style of play has to work for the personell you have available, and vice versa. Its not a one way street.

AMorim has said himself the system is less important than the players. Players can to a degree adapt to different tactics and roles, but they can't magic themselves faster, or taller, or more athletic. . I don't see how in 6 months time Dalot and Mazrouri will suddenly be fantastically suited to wingback, for example. They'll just be more used to being bad at it. Why not just fit the tactics around a system that doesn't leave your players unable to execute them properly?

 

[noodlehair]

Good post. It's roughly the criticism we always throw at Pep, that he can only perform in a very specific setup. Surely a manager must have a modicum of flexibility, the job is first and foremost to make a team work, not buy a new team.

Doesn't necessarily mean a change of formation, there is a lot of tuning and adaption of approach to be done within the same numbers in a lineup

Yeah you're right it doesn't have to mean a formaton change. It's about being realistic with what your players can and can't do and not being so tunnel visioned on one specific set up that this becomes irrelevant. I'm not for or against any formation. Just against trying the same thing over and over which visibly isn't working, and expecting it to suddenly work.

Pep has faced similar criticism but I think slightly unfairly, because whatever system he's chosen has generally worked, and he does change/adapt it. I remember them getting spanked at Anfield 4-1 where Liverpool sussed them out tactically. It didn't happen again after that.

When I try to think of good managers who are extremely stubborn/unflexible in their approach, the best I can come up with is Wenger or Jose. Both of whom got left behind once they weren't the manager setting the trend anymore. Both of whom when they were succesful never had to fit their ideals around the mess Amorim has inherited at United.

 

[Abusian]

Being reported in The Guardian that he regrets both the press conference and the post game player meeting where he lost his sh*t. ‘I’m a young guy. I make mistakes and will try to do better.’ He claims that he’s most frustrated at himself.

It’s pretty rare for someone in such a high profile position to publicly acknowledge they were wrong, and so I think this speaks well of him.

Let’s hope some good comes from this.

 

[Moriarty]

Had it been Guardiola, or Klopp, the press would have been all 'good old Pep' and 'that's the way to deal with these pampered players.'

 

[stevoc]

Yeah my post comes across harsher on him than intended, but I think that's the basic end game. The formation and style of play has to work for the personell you have available, and vice versa. Its not a one way street.

Players can to a degree adapt to different tactics and roles, but they can't magic themselves faster, or taller, or more athletic. Force feeding something that doesn't work will just make them give up on it.

Yep, I can certainly appreciate that these players will need time to adapt to 343 and the club will have to sell and sign players for Amorim to make it work.

But the part I have a problem with is why? What benefit does one particular formation have over another?

Especially for a club that has recently made itself virtually skint buying £600m+ worth of players for Ten Hag's 4231. To now launch into yet another another rebuild right away because we're switching formations. If the club belive Amorim is the man fair enough they should back him. But I hope we have a long term plan that goes beyond Amorim built around 343 and we aren't just adopting it because Amroim was the only coach that was available mid-season.

 

[stevoc]

Being reported in The Guardian that he regrets both the press conference and the post game player meeting where he lost his sh*t. ‘I’m a young guy. I make mistakes and will try to do better.’ He claims that he’s most frustrated at himself.

It’s pretty rare for someone in such a high profile position to publicly acknowledge they were wrong, and so I think this speaks well of him.

Let’s hope some good comes from this.

If true it does but I do hope the club get him some training in how to deal with the media. We didn't seem to do that with Ten Hag.

 

[sugar_kane]

Had it been Guardiola, or Klopp, the press would have been all 'good old Pep' and 'that's the way to deal with these pampered players.'

You mean multiple league and CL winners Guardiola & Klopp? That's probably why.

 

[justsomebloke]

Being reported in The Guardian that he regrets both the press conference and the post game player meeting where he lost his sh*t. ‘I’m a young guy. I make mistakes and will try to do better.’ He claims that he’s most frustrated at himself.

It’s pretty rare for someone in such a high profile position to publicly acknowledge they were wrong, and so I think this speaks well of him.

Let’s hope some good comes from

I don't think making rash statements after a match AND to the players and then having to retract them speaks very well of him. Not very impressive.

 

[Lennon7]

I don't think making rash statements after a match AND to the players and then having to retract them speaks very well of him. Not very impressive.

Except there was nothing wrong with his statements in the press conference, nor is the fact he bollocked our players. Apologising doesn’t mean he thinks he said anything he doesn’t mean, he just perhaps doesn’t want to be shown to be against the players

 

[justsomebloke]

If true it does but I do hope the club get him some training in how to deal with the media. We didn't seem to do that with Ten Hag.

Surely, knowing how to handle the media is just basic competence for a manager on this level.

 

[justsomebloke]

Except there was nothing wrong with his statements in the press conference, nor is the fact he bollocked our players. Apologising doesn’t mean he thinks he said anything he doesn’t mean, he just perhaps doesn’t want to be shown to be against the players

Sorry what, he called his own statements "mistakes", apologised for them and stated he'd try to learn from it and not do it again. So obviously he thinks there's something wrong with his statements.

 

[top1whoisman]

Probably Amorim is correct in saying that this is the worst United team in history, but where does that
leave players like Rashford ,for example ,who can’t even get on the substitute’s bench of the worst ever United team ?

8/10 for effort. Wasn't easy to find an angle to bash Rashford from, well done.

 

[Donaldo]

This thread has made me come in to the United forum more than i probably have in 20 years, because it's very interesting to see the reactions to a batshit insane thing for a football manager of Manchester United to say. He fecked up, got too emotional, and he probably realises now that he did. And you still have supporters saying he did the right thing.

It was an insane thing to say, and that's the actual fact of it. I like what I see of Amorim, and I had followed his Sporting journey enough to know he might be the difference maker for you, but the pressures of managing United are another level, and that's looking like where will be found wanting, which is a shame, because with the right personnel he will probably be the guy to get you back to some competitive level.

 

[Garethw]

Sounds to me like he’s been given a massive bollocking from his bosses and now he’s back pedaling.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Yep, I can certainly appreciate that these players will need time to adapt to 343 and the club will have to sell and sign players for Amorim to make it work.

But the part I have a problem with is why? What benefit does one particular formation have over another?

Especially for a club that has recently made itself virtually skint buying £600m+ worth of players for Ten Hag's 4231. To now launch into yet another another rebuild right away because we're switching formations. If the club belive Amorim is the man fair enough they should back him. But I hope we have a long term plan that goes beyond Amorim built around 343 and we aren't just adopting it because Amroim was the only coach that was available mid-season.

I doubt we have a plan. Nothing points to it and Ashworth who was supposed to do the planning left in a hurry. The plan is either to be a midtable team (most likely) or buy a lot of players who can play 343, which we can't afford.