American Politics

[berbatrick]

The only 2 politicians that can clean up the shit hole that is American politics are Bernie sanders and Elizabeth Warren. If those 2 are elected there could be real tangible change, starting with campaign finance reform and finally holding wall street accountable.

I'd like to see President Warren just because of what the name Warren means in American liberal history...and she would be someone who might do justice to that legacy.

Well none of the repubs were president Obama was. So we probably should hold our leaders to a higher standard then some fictional presidency of McCain or Romney. Obama has led us in meddling militarily in Libya, Syria, increased the use of drone str

romney and McCain presidencies do not exist they are make believe no point in comparing Obama to make believe presidents. He has been willing to continue us intervention and mischief in other nations such as Libya and Syria. Even the Ukraine. Those decisions all squarely rest on his doorstep. Still would rather him be president then any other choices we had but that does not give him a free ride

Not giving him a free ride, I'm just making the point you made in your last line...
Though I do think the comparison with mcCain is a little more valid because mcCain has been the leading advocate for intervention in Syria, and the mcCain-al Nusra (I think) photo could one day become the Saddam-Rumsfeld photo.

 

[JustAFan]

No surprise that Jeb is surging in the polls. Big name, announces he is a candidate, people jump on the bandwagon. The real test will be how many stay on the bandwagon once his opponents start picking apart his record, his campaign platform, etc. Plus how voters react to the things he actual says and does on the campaign trail.

 

[Ramshock]

Jeb Dubya might prove too moderate for the Blue hair brigade. I really dont see his appeal to the right of the party tbh.

 

[Gannicus]

The two issues where Jeb would be considered too "moderate" are Common Core and education.

Common Core is a non-issue in a potus campaign. Conservative critics of CC have a point, but Rep voters in primaries are not going to decide who their man to lead the free world will be over this issue.

Immigration is a more serious threat to Jeb, however. He's right on the merits and most Rep voters know it, but the test partyers will have none of it. Problem is, the Reps are going to do a deal with Obama, or at least offer a deal that will put Dems in a very hard spot, in 2015. Jeb will be on the right side of the issue, leaving the tea partyers fuming but in a hopeless position.

Anything can go wrong, but Jeb starts out with a very strong hand and is the best bet for the nomination. And in a matchup with Hillary, the smart money says Jeb. But we've got a long road to travel before November 2016.

 

[senorgregster]

The two issues where Jeb would be considered too "moderate" are Common Core and education.

Common Core is a non-issue in a potus campaign. Conservative critics of CC have a point, but Rep voters in primaries are not going to decide who their man to lead the free world will be over this issue.

Immigration is a more serious threat to Jeb, however. He's right on the merits and most Rep voters know it, but the test partyers will have none of it. Problem is, the Reps are going to do a deal with Obama, or at least offer a deal that will put Dems in a very hard spot, in 2015. Jeb will be on the right side of the issue, leaving the tea partyers fuming but in a hopeless position.

Anything can go wrong, but Jeb starts out with a very strong hand and is the best bet for the nomination. And in a matchup with Hillary, the smart money says Jeb. But we've got a long road to travel before November 2016.

How so?...

Poll Date Sample MoE Clinton (D) Bush (R) Spread
RCP Average 11/18 - 12/21 -- -- 49.0 40.2 Clinton +8.8
CNN/Opinion Research 12/18 - 12/21 1011 A 3.0 54 41 Clinton +13
FOX News 12/7 - 12/9 1043 RV 3.0 49 42 Clinton +7
McClatchy/Marist 12/3 - 12/9 923 RV 3.2 53 40 Clinton +13
Bloomberg 12/3 - 12/5 753 LV 3.6 43 37 Clinton +6
Quinnipiac 11/18 - 11/23 1623 RV 2.4 46 41 Clinton +5

 

[ravi2]

No surprise that Jeb is surging in the polls. Big name, announces he is a candidate, people jump on the bandwagon. The real test will be how many stay on the bandwagon once his opponents start picking apart his record, his campaign platform, etc. Plus how voters react to the things he actual says and does on the campaign trail.

I lived in FL and Jeb bush was the governor, he was actually thought of as the more level headed Bush who was supposed to be president, not his moron brother. He will never make it past the GOP primaries though. To entice that particular base you have to deny climate change, evolution and incessantly kiss the ass of the 1%.

 

[Ramshock]

The two issues where Jeb would be considered too "moderate" are Common Core and education.

Common Core is a non-issue in a potus campaign. Conservative critics of CC have a point, but Rep voters in primaries are not going to decide who their man to lead the free world will be over this issue.

Immigration is a more serious threat to Jeb, however. He's right on the merits and most Rep voters know it, but the test partyers will have none of it. Problem is, the Reps are going to do a deal with Obama, or at least offer a deal that will put Dems in a very hard spot, in 2015. Jeb will be on the right side of the issue, leaving the tea partyers fuming but in a hopeless position.

Anything can go wrong, but Jeb starts out with a very strong hand and is the best bet for the nomination. And in a matchup with Hillary, the smart money says Jeb. But we've got a long road to travel before November 2016.

What smart money?? its not fcking pesos anyway

 

[Nobby style]

Jesus, turns out the 3rd highest ranking Republikan in the United States congress, Steve Scalise, has been outed for being a featured speaker 12 years ago at White Supremist organization conference fronted by his friend, David Duke, ex grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. Of course he says he doesn´t remember, and he didn´t know who they were, and he abhors their views etc etc etc . . . yeah right. These guys are taking the piss.

And now David Duke is saying if the Repubikans keep giving shit to his friend Steve Scalise about this, he´s going to start outing many politicians he has ties with.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...80dc14-8fa3-11e4-a900-9960214d4cd7_story.html

House Majority Whip Scalise confirms he spoke to white supremacists in 2002



Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.), the House majority whip, acknowledged Monday that he spoke at a gathering hosted by white-supremacist leaders while serving as a state representative in 2002, thrusting a racial controversy into House Republican ranks days before the party assumes control of both congressional chambers.

Scalise, 49, who ascended to the House GOP’s third-ranking post this year, confirmed through an adviser that he once appeared at a convention of the European-American Unity and Rights Organization, or EURO. But the adviser said the congressman didn’t know at the time about the group’s affiliation with racists and neo-Nazi activists.

“For anyone to suggest that I was involved with a group like that is insulting and ludicrous,” Scalise told the Times-Picayune on Monday night. The organization, founded by former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, has been called a hate group by several civil rights organizations.


The news could complicate Republican efforts to project the sense of a fresh start for a resurgent, diversifying party as the new session of Congress opens next week. In the time since voters handed control of Congress to Republicans, top GOP leaders have been eagerly trumpeting their revamped image and management team on Capitol Hill.

Monday night, some Democrats were already raising questions about whether Scalise should remain in a leadership post . . . (cont)

 

[JustAFan]

Any transcripts of his speech?

 

[Gannicus]

What smart money?? its not fcking pesos anyway

Next time you might want to try making a substantive point, not pissing on your own laughing face.

 

[ravi2]

Jesus, turns out the 3rd highest ranking Republikan in the United States congress, Steve Scalise, has been outed for being a featured speaker 12 years ago at White Supremist organization conference fronted by his friend, David Duke, ex grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. Of course he says he doesn´t remember, and he didn´t know who they were, and he abhors their views etc etc etc . . . yeah right. These guys are taking the piss.

And now David Duke is saying if the Repubikans keep giving shit to his friend Steve Scalise about this, he´s going to start outing many politicians he has ties with.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...80dc14-8fa3-11e4-a900-9960214d4cd7_story.html

House Majority Whip Scalise confirms he spoke to white supremacists in 2002



Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.), the House majority whip, acknowledged Monday that he spoke at a gathering hosted by white-supremacist leaders while serving as a state representative in 2002, thrusting a racial controversy into House Republican ranks days before the party assumes control of both congressional chambers.

Scalise, 49, who ascended to the House GOP’s third-ranking post this year, confirmed through an adviser that he once appeared at a convention of the European-American Unity and Rights Organization, or EURO. But the adviser said the congressman didn’t know at the time about the group’s affiliation with racists and neo-Nazi activists.

“For anyone to suggest that I was involved with a group like that is insulting and ludicrous,” Scalise told the Times-Picayune on Monday night. The organization, founded by former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, has been called a hate group by several civil rights organizations.


The news could complicate Republican efforts to project the sense of a fresh start for a resurgent, diversifying party as the new session of Congress opens next week. In the time since voters handed control of Congress to Republicans, top GOP leaders have been eagerly trumpeting their revamped image and management team on Capitol Hill.

Monday night, some Democrats were already raising questions about whether Scalise should remain in a leadership post . . . (cont)

There are countless reports of tea baggers hosting white power events, however this is the highest ranking official Of the GOP to ever been caught doing it.
One of the main reasons they hate Obama so much is that he is black, they just hate to admit it.

 

[JustAFan]

Doubt we will ever get to the point of guns being banned outright (are the countries where ALL gun ownership by private individuals are banned), but I still retain hope for some sane gun laws to start coming into play. The reason you will never see an outright ban is due to the large number of hunters in this country, the majority of the ones I know don't feel the need for "assault type" weapons to meet their hunting needs or clips that hold large number of shots.

 

[MrMarcello]

McCain claims he's going to rid Arizona of the tea party. Good luck trying to stop the Koch brothers money and the fringe lunatics like Palin, Cruz, et al.

 

[Ramshock]

Next time you might want to try making a substantive point, not pissing on your own laughing face.

I have done more than several times if you chose to read the thread. Obviousness shouldnt have to be pointed out

 

[Gannicus]

I have done more than several times if you chose to read the thread. Obviousness shouldnt have to be pointed out

An emoticon does not establish an argument.

 

[Ramshock]

An emoticon does not establish an argument.

Not reading back is laziness

 

[Gannicus]

Not reading back is laziness

I read your post, and with all due respect, it was devoid of substance.

 

[Ramshock]

I read your post, and with all due respect, it was devoid of substance.

No you didnt because its post(s)

 

[Raoul]

The two issues where Jeb would be considered too "moderate" are Common Core and education.

Common Core is a non-issue in a potus campaign. Conservative critics of CC have a point, but Rep voters in primaries are not going to decide who their man to lead the free world will be over this issue.

Immigration is a more serious threat to Jeb, however. He's right on the merits and most Rep voters know it, but the test partyers will have none of it. Problem is, the Reps are going to do a deal with Obama, or at least offer a deal that will put Dems in a very hard spot, in 2015. Jeb will be on the right side of the issue, leaving the tea partyers fuming but in a hopeless position.

Anything can go wrong, but Jeb starts out with a very strong hand and is the best bet for the nomination. And in a matchup with Hillary, the smart money says Jeb. But we've got a long road to travel before November 2016.

I think immigration and Cuba will be hot topics for Jeb. Cuba more so in terms of local SoFla politics and whether or not he is going to court the younger Cuban vote who are more progressive on diplomatic normalization or the old school anti-communists who want an entrenchment of the status quo. But yeah, immigration is going to be massive, as he is going to have to walk the tightrope of retaining the latino vote despite taking positions that might estrange him from them.

 

[Raoul]

There are countless reports of tea baggers hosting white power events, however this is the highest ranking official Of the GOP to ever been caught doing it.
One of the main reasons they hate Obama so much is that he is black, they just hate to admit it.

The Republicans would do well to distance themselves from this sort of thing. Not sure if his position will be in any jeopardy though, as the likes of Robert Byrd was once a KKK member and later turned into a long standing Democratic Senator for West Virginia.

 

[MrMarcello]

The Republicans would do well to distance themselves from this sort of thing. Not sure if his position will be in any jeopardy though, as the likes of Robert Byrd was once a KKK member and later turned into a long standing Democratic Senator for West Virginia.

I don't much about Byrd but this guy goes to bat against the conservative supporting base
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...the-right-s-ridiculous-racial-blame-game.html

 

[Nobby style]

I don't much about Byrd but this guy goes to bat against the conservative supporting base
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...the-right-s-ridiculous-racial-blame-game.html

The thing about Robert Byrd was that he totally did an about face on his racial views. He apologized for his past racist and intolerant views and then went on to work for civil rights and became a liberal democrat. Conservatives always trot out Byrd´s name to tie liberals and democrats with KKK, but you must give credit to the guy for having an honest change of heart. Very different from these right wing cuts who apologize when they´re caught or when the truth slips out of their own mouth.

 

[Raoul]

The thing about Robert Byrd was that he totally did an about face on his racial views. He apologized for his past racist and intolerant views and then went on to work for civil rights and became a liberal democrat. Conservatives always trot out Byrd´s name to tie liberals and democrats with KKK, but you must give credit to the guy for having an honest change of heart. Very different from these right wing cuts who apologize when they´re caught or when the truth slips out of their own mouth.

This seems to be the new strategy to go after the likes of Scalise. "Robert Byrd is irrelevant and you're guilty, irrespective of whether you apologize now or didn't know what you were getting into at the time".

The fact that some are willing to casually brush aside a KKK member turned politician and go after a politician who made a one off speech in front of a group, shows how politically motivated this is.

As for Byrd, his White N word remarks as recently as 2001 obviously suggest his views on race relations aren't irrelevant.

(1:00 on....)

 

[Gannicus]

No you didnt because its post(s)

I read this...


What smart money?? its not fcking pesos anyway


...which says absolutely fukk all. If he has a contribution to make in reply to my post, he is more than welcome to make it. But standing on that post as something worth reading and thinking about is laughable.

 

[JustAFan]

I'd like to see President Warren just because of what the name Warren means in American liberal history...and she would be someone who might do justice to that legacy.




.

Are they even related? If not, what does she have to do with him or his legacy besides by chance marrying someone with the same last name?

 

[Nobby style]

This seems to be the new strategy to go after the likes of Scalise. "Robert Byrd is irrelevant and you're guilty, irrespective of whether you apologize now or didn't know what you were getting into at the time".

The fact that some are willing to casually brush aside a KKK member turned politician and go after a politician who made a one off speech in front of a group, shows how politically motivated this is.

As for Byrd, his White N word remarks as recently as 2001 obviously suggest his views on race relations aren't irrelevant.

(1:00 on....)

I believe it was explained his use of White N****, and was term from his youth. Not that that is ok either, but I think understandable in an old dog like Byrd. But to compare Byrd and Scalise is absurd and is just what the right wing uses to cloud the water. Scalise was one of the very few in Louisiana still voting against MLK holiday and has played the white victim card. Typical. I think Byrd has redeemed himself and should be applauded. That is far from "casually brushing aside" his past. Scalise is another case completely. To compare them disingenuous at best.

 

[Raoul]

I believe it was explained his use of White N****, and was term from his youth. Not that that is ok either, but I think understandable in an old dog like Byrd. But to compare Byrd and Scalise is absurd and is just what the right wing uses to cloud the water. Scalise was one of the very few in Louisiana still voting against MLK holiday and has played the white victim card. Typical. I think Byrd has redeemed himself and should be applauded. That is far from "casually brushing aside" his past. Scalise is another case completely. To compare them disingenuous at best.

Its only disingenuous to the extent that it exposes an inconvenient double standard. Byrd was wrong to use the term in 2001 and his apology was rightly accepted by most. Scalise's apology should also be accepted and we should move on without attempting to score cheap political points, which lets face, this is all about.

 

[Member 21058]

Its only disingenuous to the extent that it exposes an inconvenient double standard. Byrd was wrong to use the term in 2001 and his apology was rightly accepted by most. Scalise's apology should also be accepted and we should move on without attempting to score cheap political points, which lets face, this is all about.

Wait, why does one have to "move on" and accept eithers apology? Can't one be offended and think both are unfit for public office?

 

[Raoul]

Wait, why does one have to "move on" and accept eithers apology? Can't one be offended and think both are unfit for public office?

Definitely, that's an option as well. What I object to is the double standard of one being ok but the other not being ok, in order to score political points.

 

[Member 21058]

Definitely, that's an option as well. What I object to is the double standard of one being ok but the other not being ok, in order to score political points.

I don't think it's as much as a double standard as you're making it out to be. Byrd was born in 1917, his racist views were held by 90+% of the nation during that time. That doesn't make it right but at least it's understandable. Later in life he apologized admitted he was wrong. (Of course we can never really know if he had a change of heart or not)

Scalise on the other hand gave speech to a white power group, and please don't insult my intelligence and say they are anything other than that, in 2002. I'm sorry but that is far worse, especially since he belongs to a party that has had such a recent problem with racism.

EDITED TO ADD: In 2004 the NAACP gave Byrd a 100% score, that says to me that he views probably did change and even if they didn't it didn't affect his job performance

 

[Nobby style]

Its only disingenuous to the extent that it exposes an inconvenient double standard. Byrd was wrong to use the term in 2001 and his apology was rightly accepted by most. Scalise's apology should also be accepted and we should move on without attempting to score cheap political points, which lets face, this is all about.

When Scalise shows some actions, i.e. working for civil rights etc, redeeming himself, it will be a totally different story. He remains a typical southern right wing politician in business as usual (albeit, caught red handed, thereby having to apologize). Comparing Byrd´s White n**** old man gaffe to speaking at a David Duke convention is laughable.

Again, this is the whole race card mentality thing. The fact that you have Sharpton, Jackson and a few others playing it is outrageous to right wing America and is somehow comparable to having reign of a Republican party, a Fox news outlet, corporate money, talk radio forcing the white card down our throats every single day, at all hours. Incredible this mentality.

 

[Gannicus]

Robert Byrd is the only American in history to have voted against two African-American nominees to the US Supreme Court. Thurgood Marshall in the 1960s and Clarence Thomas in the 1980s. Look it up.

His views on race, expressed as an adult and not just as an impressionable college student, were repugnant.

 

[Eboue]

Robert Byrd is the only American in history to have voted against two African-American nominees to the US Supreme Court. Thurgood Marshall in the 1960s and Clarence Thomas in the 1980s. Look it up.

His views on race, expressed as an adult and not just as an impressionable college student, were repugnant.

That's your actual point?

 

[Raoul]

Again, comparing Byrd`s old man White N*** gaffe to Scalise's speaking at a David Duke convention is totally unfair. Byrd has walked the walk and done loads for tolerance and civil rights. What has Scalise done? He remains a typical southern right wing politician fighting the MLK holiday, getting money from white supremacists and playing the white victim card. Why should his apology be accepted, or even believed. Byrd is a totally different case.

I'm not buying it. Either you approach these types of situations with one standard irrespective of which side of the political spectrum they fall on, or you don't.

 

[Gannicus]

That's your actual point?

That's one point.

THE question at hand, presumably, is whether Scalise is a racist or not. I do not know Scalise personally, but all outward appearances suggest he is not a racist. If evidence, compelling or merely suggestive, surfaces that he is a racist then I will join those who condemn him as a racist.

Does that work for you?

 

[Raoul]

That's your actual point?

In fairness, he should be applauded for Clarence Thomas.

 

[Eboue]

That's one point.

THE question at hand, presumably, is whether Scalise is a racist or not. I do not know Scalise personally, but all outward appearances suggest he is not a racist. If evidence, compelling or merely suggestive, surfaces that he is a racist then I will join those who condemn him as a racist.

Does that work for you?

That's not the post I quoted with my objection. Nice backtracking.

 

[Gannicus]

That's not the post I quoted with my objection. Nice backtracking.

That's how it appears on my screen. That was the first, and at that time, my only post on the Scalise matter at the time you quoted and replied to me. But if you were referring to another topic, not related to Scalise/Byrd, I will need clarification on what you were referring to.

But to start from beginning here's my view on Scalise. There is no evidence whatsoever that Scalise is a racist or in any way agrees with a white supremacy theory or believes that African-Americans are lesser human beings or that it's a shame that Jim Crow laws are gone.

I also do not believe Barack Obama is a racist, even though he was welcomed Al Sharpton, a race baiter, nearly 100 times in the White House for consultation.

Robert Byrd disavowed his undeniably white sumpremacist views only after it became politically imprudent to retain them.

 

[ravi2]

I'm not buying it. Either you approach these types of situations with one standard irrespective of which side of the political spectrum they fall on, or you don't.

The GOP is blatantly racist and their policies prove it. I don't think the two parties are in the same ball park when it comes to sexism racism and homophobia.
I may be misunderstanding the point you are trying to make.

 

[Gannicus]

The GOP is blatantly racist and their policies prove it. I don't think the two parties are in the same ball park when it comes to sexism racism and homophobia.
I may be misunderstanding the point you are trying to make.

Please share your evidence that "The GOP is blatantly racist." Thanks!