American Politics

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I'm pretty sure shutting down a government isn't part of the "political process", as intended.

I'm sure you would have a problem with this if it was Democrats doing the extorting.

It clearly is, seeing as it's built into the the political system. This isn't the first time the US government has shutdown either; some of them have been caused my Democrats, others by Republicans. The only US President who hasn't had to deal with a shutdown of some sort in recent years is Bush Jr, and that's only because he could push through any budget he wanted after 9/11.
 
Reading the last posts resumes the socialism mind, or you are with me or you are my enemy, just because I'm on the right side which I was as well in Portugal I never changed I'm the idiot, stupid, etc, I guess I need to remind me to labels you guys the same way.
 
Reading the last posts resumes the socialism mind, or you are with me or you are my enemy, just because I'm on the right side which I was as well in Portugal I never changed I'm the idiot, stupid, etc, I guess I need to remind me to labels you guys the same way.



If the shit fits, wear it.

That's it! Forget talk of a means test, let's just have you look at them for a couple of minutes to decide whether or not they are poor.

:lol:
 
Reading the last posts resumes the socialism mind, or you are with me or you are my enemy, just because I'm on the right side which I was as well in Portugal I never changed I'm the idiot, stupid, etc, I guess I need to remind me to labels you guys the same way.
You're not real, you just wandered in off the set of The Simpsons or South Park.
 
Ok you are an idiot probably living behind a computer all day long in a "flat" paid by the government...


I'm a college graduate actually. Unemployment in Michigan is third highest in the country and I've been unable to find a job in my chosen field. Nevertheless, I get up every day and work for $11 per hour. It's not fun but I am young, have no health issues and I don't have kids to raise. There are millions around the country who don't have those advantages I have nor the limited support system my family is able to provide should something go seriously wrong. That's why we have programs to help those most vulnerable. I'm proud that my tax dollars support people who have kids to raise or major health issues or are too old or too young to work, people who didn't win the genetic lottery like I did.

I find it insulting that you think you can stand behind someone in line at a convenience store and pretend to know their whole life. Even more to the point, let's say for the sake of argument that the person you saw for 90 seconds actually was independently wealthy and still using food stamps. That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people who get government assistance actually need it. They are seniors who need to heat their homes in the winter. Poor, high achieving students who deserve a chance to go to college. Elementary school kids who deserve to fecking eat lunch regardless of how responsible their parents are with their money. Government does good things for real people and it's only the incredibly stupid or incredibly selfish people who can't recognize this and instead favor taking benefits away from the vast majority who need them to...you know...eat, put a roof over their heads or see a doctor because a small minority abuse the system.
 
respect for that post Eboue.

All this protest about the ACA. The republicans want it gutted so 30 million could not have health insurance. For some ideology which is basically false, they are prepared to see 30 million people go without health insurance. They don't come forward with an alternative. Instead they are happy that these people should go to ER...when the health issue is probably too far gone. Simple preventive care would have prevented the disease from going so far in most cases. Hear in Minnesota the cost of these ACA premiums actually works out cheaper. When it is implemented fully next year, those who have employer health care will want to move to these ACA exchanges. In Red states they have fighting to implement this law. Now we have teabaggers holding the government to ransom to appeal to their moronic base.

No wonder the GOP is a shrinking party. The only law they are all happy to implement is one which prevents minorities from voting. No. They are not a racist party. :smirk:
 
Don't forget that it's actually, pretty much, a republican idea anyway. They just don't like it because of the person who proposed it.
 
I'm a college graduate actually. Unemployment in Michigan is third highest in the country and I've been unable to find a job in my chosen field. Nevertheless, I get up every day and work for $11 per hour. It's not fun but I am young, have no health issues and I don't have kids to raise. There are millions around the country who don't have those advantages I have nor the limited support system my family is able to provide should something go seriously wrong. That's why we have programs to help those most vulnerable. I'm proud that my tax dollars support people who have kids to raise or major health issues or are too old or too young to work, people who didn't win the genetic lottery like I did.

I find it insulting that you think you can stand behind someone in line at a convenience store and pretend to know their whole life. Even more to the point, let's say for the sake of argument that the person you saw for 90 seconds actually was independently wealthy and still using food stamps. That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people who get government assistance actually need it. They are seniors who need to heat their homes in the winter. Poor, high achieving students who deserve a chance to go to college. Elementary school kids who deserve to fecking eat lunch regardless of how responsible their parents are with their money. Government does good things for real people and it's only the incredibly stupid or incredibly selfish people who can't recognize this and instead favor taking benefits away from the vast majority who need them to...you know...eat, put a roof over their heads or see a doctor because a small minority abuse the system.
Good post.
 
Reading the last posts resumes the socialism mind, or you are with me or you are my enemy, just because I'm on the right side which I was as well in Portugal I never changed I'm the idiot, stupid, etc, I guess I need to remind me to labels you guys the same way.


Or you could look at whats actually going on here.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/gop-s...ll-link-to-debt-ceiling-fight/article/2536750

Some choice quotes


“This is not just about Obamacare anymore,” centrist Rep. Michael Grimm, R-N.Y., said

“We’re not going to be disrespected,” conservative Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., added. “We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is."

Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., who is close with leadership, suggested that the House majority is prepared to withhold support for a government funding bill and the debt ceiling increase if Democrats continue to refuse to negotiate a compromise. But Republicans are not going to give Democrats the "clean" funding bill they're demanding, he said.

“Why in the world would you do that?” Cole said of the clean funding bill. “That’s basically, at this point, a surrender to the Democratic position.”



Doesnt matter what your politics are, these guys are not representing you, Obama's shown himself to be all mouth and no trousers, but there is only one bad guy here, it isnt him, its the completely crazy feckers holding your entire country to ransom for something, they claim they dont even know what, but is in fact there own egos. We have some shitty politicians here inhabiting both front benches, but these guys are batshit crazy. Defending them or backing them is in the realms of masochism, because they WILL feck you up again given a chance.
 
Obama should walk to the hill and ask to see the Speaker. And then, when they don't come to see him, walk out again.
 
Or you could look at whats actually going on here.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/gop-s...ll-link-to-debt-ceiling-fight/article/2536750

Some choice quotes






Doesnt matter what your politics are, these guys are not representing you, Obama's shown himself to be all mouth and no trousers, but there is only one bad guy here, it isnt him, its the completely crazy feckers holding your entire country to ransom for something, they claim they dont even know what, but is in fact there own egos. We have some shitty politicians here inhabiting both front benches, but these guys are batshit crazy. Defending them or backing them is in the realms of masochism, because they WILL feck you up again given a chance.

The sad part about this is that the Republicans who are behind this shutdown, have brainwashed their constituents into believing that the ACA is some Bolshevik plot to kill people, bankrupt the country and turn them into socialists. They won't budge cause the people they represent are actually behind them.
 
respect for that post Eboue.

All this protest about the ACA. The republicans want it gutted so 30 million could not have health insurance. For some ideology which is basically false, they are prepared to see 30 million people go without health insurance. They don't come forward with an alternative. Instead they are happy that these people should go to ER...when the health issue is probably too far gone. Simple preventive care would have prevented the disease from going so far in most cases. Hear in Minnesota the cost of these ACA premiums actually works out cheaper. When it is implemented fully next year, those who have employer health care will want to move to these ACA exchanges. In Red states they have fighting to implement this law. Now we have teabaggers holding the government to ransom to appeal to their moronic base.

No wonder the GOP is a shrinking party. The only law they are all happy to implement is one which prevents minorities from voting. No. They are not a racist party. :smirk:

I've actually heard a few Republicans admit that they don't want the ACA implemented cause they're afraid people would actually like it...I kid you not! These people really are scum.
 
Reading the last posts resumes the socialism mind, or you are with me or you are my enemy, just because I'm on the right side which I was as well in Portugal I never changed I'm the idiot, stupid, etc, I guess I need to remind me to labels you guys the same way.

Do you even know what socialism is?
 
Anyway I'm against this obamacare crap, I do have insurance which I can get the doctors I want and I don't want them to change to a cheap version with a premium pay, waiting to see next January since nobody knows (besides the insurance companies) the changes.

Your post sounded like: "I have health insurance...feck everyone else you can't afford it"

Good post...:rolleyes:
 
I've actually heard a few Republicans admit that they don't want the ACA implemented cause they're afraid people would actually like it...I kid you not! These people really are scum.

I'm not surprised. These republicans would rather people die than they lose political power. In a nutshell that is what it is about. I still have not heard from these righties an alternative to the ACA. The truth is they do not have any solution. But they are all against it because a black President has helped make this law.
 
Well clearly they think there are ways to kill the bill (by defunding it), and are going for it. It's probably very annoying, but that's democracy.

I'm not sure it is democracy. It's part of the American political system, but that doesn't make it democratic by default. The democratic thing to do would be to let the law stand, then run on opposing it, and then repeal it when you get in power.

Not block a law that's already been democratically passed because you lost.

Democracy won't help the GOP. It's the party of old white men and antiquated values. Democracy is killing it through shifting demographics and greater education. Their only recourse is to obstruct it.
 
At a closed-door lunch meeting in the Senate’s Mansfield Room, Republican after Republican pressed Cruz to explain how he would propose to end the bitter budget impasse with Democrats, according to senators who attended the meeting. A defensive Cruz had no clear plan to force an end to the shutdown — or explain how he would defund Obamacare, as he has demanded all along, sources said.
:lol:
 
I'm not surprised. These republicans would rather people die than they lose political power. In a nutshell that is what it is about. I still have not heard from these righties an alternative to the ACA. The truth is they do not have any solution. But they are all against it because a black President has helped make this law.
Nah-race had nothing to do with it. The GOP shot down the concept of universal health care under Clinton as well.
 
He's just made a pretty good speech basically calling Boehner a coward, not as good but still fun.
 
I'm not sure it is democracy. It's part of the American political system, but that doesn't make it democratic by default. The democratic thing to do would be to let the law stand, then run on opposing it, and then repeal it when you get in power.

Not block a law that's already been democratically passed because you lost.

Democracy won't help the GOP. It's the party of old white men and antiquated values. Democracy is killing it through shifting demographics and greater education. Their only recourse is to obstruct it.



....and gerrymander it.
 
The shutdown could get interesting in about a week or two--when discussions on raising the debt ceiling start getting serious.

Until then, I'd note that 401 federal parks are closed--including Yosemite, the Gettysburg battlefield, and the Lincoln and Jefferson monuments in D.C. Tourists are getting a bit peeved, and one gent is apparently eating $30,000 in costs because his raft expedition (16 people) down the Colorado river through the Grand Canyon was prevented by a few of the park rangers still on duty. (He also claimed it took him 10 years to finally get the federal permit to make the trip).

My wife's job/paycheck are safe until October 15, when the courts run out of money.

And yesterday I was up in San Francisco, where the gift shop at the Cliff House (national historical site run by the Park Service) is closed, although there is a chance the concessionaire-run restaurant might remain open.

Forget minor stuff like healthcare and the budget, when Americans get inconvenienced in their leisure activities, heads will roll.
 
Am I right in thinking they are heavily funded by those with a business interest in private healthcare?

I think it's more that they are heavily funded by the defence industry and if the country was throwing billions at universal healthcare they wouldn't be able to finance their foreign adventures.
 
Am I right in thinking they are heavily funded by those with a business interest in private healthcare?


Many of the current senate have vested interests in those companies..

Not ted cruz though, he gets $40k a year health insurance from Goldman Sachs, as part of his wifes salary package from them. Which is why he couldnt care less about the rest of you.
 
I'm not sure it is democracy. It's part of the American political system, but that doesn't make it democratic by default. The democratic thing to do would be to let the law stand, then run on opposing it, and then repeal it when you get in power.

Not block a law that's already been democratically passed because you lost.

Democracy won't help the GOP. It's the party of old white men and antiquated values. Democracy is killing it through shifting demographics and greater education. Their only recourse is to obstruct it.

What you describe is just how the British system works and there is nothing more inherently democratic about it. Because of the way the American system is setup, it's very difficult to get a big enough majority in both houses to repeal anything; not to mention the fact that once a certain law is out there and becomes part of some peoples' day to day lives, it will add more difficulty, and you can see this with how the Tories in the UK find it so difficult to run on an anti-HRA platform. So from a strategic perspective, they think they have an opportunity to kill it before it gets out there - whether that's true or not, we'll see.

I won't comment on what will happen to the GOP in the future because well, I have no idea and don't really care that much.
 
This idea of two houses and two parties seems a bit stupid to me.
 
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