All-Time Fantasy Draft

[Gio]

Just wondering how much weight-age should we put on Ballon D'or lists. After all they are votes from a group of people most of whom concentrate on title wins and other stats and we see players winning that award at times when they don't deserve it, so those lists, whilst being a good indicator of telling who was doing well that season, are not really 100% accurate are they? Like in this example, Desailly or Redondo could have easily had a better season than Sammer and a few places up or down in a voting list cannot really tell us the real picture, I feel.

In fact that shift in power from Barca to Madrid that season depended mainly on three factors : 1. Laudrup's swap. 2 Romario not getting along well with the coach and not stopping his overnight partying that continued from the world cup and 3. Real Madrid signing Fernando Redondo.

I'd put more stock in the Ballon D'Or given it was chosen by a very select group of expert sports journalists, whereas the FIFA award was where you're more likely to see random players popping up. It's a useful tool for cross-generational comparisons. However, if a poster has sufficient evidence to put up a decent case to contradict the Ballon D'Or results from a particular season, then by all means let's hear it.

 

[Moby]

Oh don't get me wrong, anyone who gets voted in the top 10/20 of that awards must have surely been a top player that season. What I don't entirely agree with is saying X was better than Y simply because he got a few more votes in Ballon D'or when Y was not far behind himself. It's a good indicator, but not a deciding factor IMO.

 

[Brwned]

I don't think we should pay much attention to the rankings, particularly when there's only a few votes between them, but I think they can be used as a rough guide of sorts. Sammer might not have been the best in the world but he was up there. There was only 4 points between Sammer, Laudrup, Sousa and Redondo so I wouldn't pay attention the order. Likewise right at the top end there's less than 10 points between the top two ten times: Matthews/Di-Stefano ('56), Suárez/Sivori ('61), Eusébio/Facchetti ('65), Charlton/Eusébio ('66), Best/Charlton ('67), Rivera/Riva ('69), Muller/Moore ('70), Beckenbauer/Muller ('72), Simonsen/Keegan ('77), Sammer/Ronaldo ('96). Using these Ballon D'or wins as proof of them being the best in the world is misleading because they're clearly regarded as being amongst the best rather than the outright leader.

I do think they hold some value though. People consistently turning up in the top 5 inevitably were amongst the best in the world. Or if you look at the winners and the proportion of votes - in the first Ballon D'or, Stanley Matthews was voted the best in Europe by 6 of 16 voters, Di Stéfano was voted the best by 5. Whereas in the following year Di Stéfano dominated with 12 of 16 voters choosing him as #1 and 3 others choosing him as #2. Likewise he got voted first by 14 of 20 voters in '59. This is where you can see where the clear best player in the world was - consistency and dominating the votes. Di Stéfano was the only one to finish with over 50 points more than the next best until Cruyff came along.

 

[Moby]

Yeah that is what I mean as well. After a point, these rankings become sort of meaningless, in relevance to individual comparisons while they are still very clear in showing that the bunch finishing in the top of those ranking was clearly the one that performed the best.

 

[Isotope]

There's this fomous clinical striker that still up for grap.

 

[antohan]

Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi 4. Krol 5. Zanetti 6. Kocsis 7. Vidic 8. Shesternyov 9. Pirri 10. Czibor 11. Pfaff
DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta, 4. Gascoigne 5. Makelele 6. McGrath 7. Vogts 8. Camacho 9. Seedorf 10. Drogba 11. Cech
KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik, 4. Sammer 5. Nedved 6. Valderrama 7. Banks 8. Schiaffino 9. Djalma Santos 10. Popluhar 11. Lizarazu
Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o, 4. Cannavaro 5. Coluna 6. Bremner 7. Carlos Alberto 8. Blanc 9. Alonso 10. Lahm 11. Preud’Homme
NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella 4. Boniek 5. Thuram 6. Tardelli 7. Carvalho 8. Blokhin 9. Rummenigge 10. Cole 11. Zamora
Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson 4. R Baggio 5. Charles 6. Tigana 7. Hierro 8. Maier 9. Nilton Santos 10. Shevchenko 11. Kahn
Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão 4. Giggs 5. Matthews 6. Brehme 7. Trésor 8. McGrain 9. Spencer 10. Germano 11. Sárosi
MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller 4. Luis Suárez 5. Meazza 6. Schmeichel 7. Rui Costa 8. Nasazzi 9. Chumpitaz 10. Zebec 11.Monti
JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps 4. Gento 5. Stam 6. Law 7. Deco 8. Janes 9. Augusto 10. Peters 11. Giles
mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner 4. Jairzinho 5. Bergomi 6. Varela 7. Koeman 8. Marzolini 9. Gerets 10. Kopa 11. Shilton
EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo 4. Figo 5. Romario 6. Desailly 7. Dzajic 8. Schnellinger 9. Essien 10. Guardiola 11. Southall
Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler 5. Davids 6. Gentile 7. Moreno 8. Nordahl 9. Franklin 10. Jennings 11. Demyanenko
Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti 5. Henry 6. R. Ferdinand 7. Effenberg 8. Vasovic 9. Dasayev 10. Andrade 11. Erico
Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness 5. Savicevic 6. Cafu 7. Kubala 8. Van Nistlerooy 9. Puyol 10. Ayala 11. Montero
Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen 5. Hagi 6. Finney 7. Viera 8. Irwin 9. Cabrini 10. Raul 11. Veron 12. Cordoba
paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust 5. Batistuta 6. Gullit 7. Socrates 8. Amoros 9. Schuster 10. Gordillo 11. Beckham 12. Gregg

 

[antohan]

Wingers are wrong sides mate

I wonder what would happen if people didn't discuss stuff on here prior to the games. I could see some really hilarious lineups suddenly showing up at games. A bit like American Idol when they can't sing for shit

 

[antohan]

I do think they hold some value though. People consistently turning up in the top 5 inevitably were amongst the best in the world. Or if you look at the winners and the proportion of votes - in the first Ballon D'or, Stanley Matthews was voted the best in Europe by 6 of 16 voters, Di Stéfano was voted the best by 5. Whereas in the following year Di Stéfano dominated with 12 of 16 voters choosing him as #1 and 3 others choosing him as #2. Likewise he got voted first by 14 of 20 voters in '59. This is where you can see where the clear best player in the world was - consistency and dominating the votes. Di Stéfano was the only one to finish with over 50 points more than the next best until Cruyff came along.

And then Di Stefano, who has seen them all, says the Best Player he has ever seen was not Maradona, or Pelé, or Puskas, or any one of the greats he has seen. He says The Best was Arsenio Erico.

 

[Fortitude]

And then Di Stefano, who has seen them all, says the Best Player he has ever seen was not Maradona, or Pelé, or Puskas, or any one of the greats he has seen. He says The Best was Arsenio Erico.

Think those things are difficult... there's also times when he said the same of Moreno, no?

 

[Stobzilla]

I'll take Ernst Happel

 

[paceme]

Don't really understand what Schuster and Gullit are doing out there myself. What are their roles? I think of Gullit first and foremost for that partnership with van Basten up top and there's potential there to have a devastatingly physical and direct attack alongside Batigol but then that leaves Schuster doing nothing. He's already in there doing what Sócrates is meant to be doing. I'd try and get some width in the next couple of rounds to at least offer a different option. Gullit, Sócrates and Masopust in a midfield three is pretty robust with Batistuta playing that lone role he excelled at with two wide players at least stretching the game and offering an injection of pace.

Spoiler

It's just a system that fitted the players I had, the overall plan was always to go for a sort of 4-4-1-1, though it is worth noting that Gullit played wide right for Holland and for Milan in his first season and I could play him pretty much anywhere I wanted on the pitch and justify his position.

 

[Polaroid]

I like the look of the teams from Dan, EDogen and Isotope. As of now anyway

 

[Cutch]

Right lads, big push now, lets get this pickin done and dusted!

 

[Moby]

That must remind all the fathers here of their words in the maternity room.

 

[Gio]

It's just a system that fitted the players I had, the overall plan was always to go for a sort of 4-4-1-1, though it is worth noting that Gullit played wide right for Holland and for Milan in his first season and I could play him pretty much anywhere I wanted on the pitch and justify his position.

Yeah Gullit was surprisingly effective in wide areas for a big man. However, I'd like to see him a bit closer to Batistuta, even in an inside-right position, so they can form a proper partnership.

 

[antohan]

Think those things are difficult... there's also times when he said the same of Moreno, no?

Not that I'm aware of. He would likely have said he was the greatest in River's history though, that's pretty much undisputed.

 

[paceme]

Yeah Gullit was surprisingly effective in wide areas for a big man. However, I'd like to see him a bit closer to Batistuta, even in an inside-right position, so they can form a proper partnership.

[/IMG]

This is the basic idea. Gullit drifting around in that same position he played for Milan, given the licence to roam wherever needed.

 

[antohan]

OK, I was leaving this for a jaw-dropping 13th pick but some of you guys are scaring me with all this nonsense of picking two goalies, drastically changing your lineups, etc.

The ball-playing moustache, the atomic kick, the golden left foot...

Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi 4. Krol 5. Zanetti 6. Kocsis 7. Vidic 8. Shesternyov 9. Pirri 10. Czibor 11. Pfaff
DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta, 4. Gascoigne 5. Makelele 6. McGrath 7. Vogts 8. Camacho 9. Seedorf 10. Drogba 11. Cech
KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik, 4. Sammer 5. Nedved 6. Valderrama 7. Banks 8. Schiaffino 9. Djalma Santos 10. Popluhar 11. Lizarazu
Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o, 4. Cannavaro 5. Coluna 6. Bremner 7. Carlos Alberto 8. Blanc 9. Alonso 10. Lahm 11. Preud’Homme
NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella 4. Boniek 5. Thuram 6. Tardelli 7. Carvalho 8. Blokhin 9. Rummenigge 10. Cole 11. Zamora
Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson 4. R Baggio 5. Charles 6. Tigana 7. Hierro 8. Maier 9. Nilton Santos 10. Shevchenko 11. Kahn
Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão 4. Giggs 5. Matthews 6. Brehme 7. Trésor 8. McGrain 9. Spencer 10. Germano 11. Sárosi
MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller 4. Luis Suárez 5. Meazza 6. Schmeichel 7. Rui Costa 8. Nasazzi 9. Chumpitaz 10. Zebec 11.Monti
JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps 4. Gento 5. Stam 6. Law 7. Deco 8. Janes 9. Augusto 10. Peters 11. Giles
mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner 4. Jairzinho 5. Bergomi 6. Varela 7. Koeman 8. Marzolini 9. Gerets 10. Kopa 11. Shilton
EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo 4. Figo 5. Romario 6. Desailly 7. Dzajic 8. Schnellinger 9. Essien 10. Guardiola 11. Southall
Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler 5. Davids 6. Gentile 7. Moreno 8. Nordahl 9. Franklin 10. Jennings 11. Demyanenko
Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti 5. Henry 6. R. Ferdinand 7. Effenberg 8. Vasovic 9. Dasayev 10. Andrade 11. Erico 12. Rivelino
Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness 5. Savicevic 6. Cafu 7. Kubala 8. Van Nistlerooy 9. Puyol 10. Ayala 11. Montero 12. Happel
Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen 5. Hagi 6. Finney 7. Viera 8. Irwin 9. Cabrini 10. Raul 11. Veron 12. Cordoba
paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust 5. Batistuta 6. Gullit 7. Socrates 8. Amoros 9. Schuster 10. Gordillo 11. Beckham 12. Gregg

 

[MJJ]

Did anyone pm gio? He is online as well.

 

[Marcosdeto]

may i say i can't believe no one picked Pipita Higuain yet?

argeists!!!

 

[Moby]

We have made him ineligible for the draft so as to not give an unfair advantage to the one who picks him.

 

[Marcosdeto]

We have made him ineligible for the draft so as to not give an unfair advantage to the one who picks him.

i love you

 

[Gio]

Alan Morton

Incisive left-winger who was the greatest player in Rangers history. Most famous for his part in the Wembley Wizards' 5-1 demolition of England in 1928 where Morton laid on three goals. In the 1920s Scotland were one of the strongest teams in Europe and a class above anything else in the home nations. Morton's own record against England over the course of 11 games read 7 wins and 3 defeats (2 of them at the tailend of his career).

Spoiler

I have written so often of Alan Morton, that the world had never seen his equal and never shall, that I find myself in danger of repeating myself whenever he comes into the subject. No superlative, however, ever overstated his worth to the game. He was to all English defenders what Sir Stanley Matthews was to us - an unstoppable, jewel-encrusted winger with a fantastic sense of balance and the brain of a football professor. Unchallenged as Scotland's outside left so long as he was fit, his imposing honours list would have been greater had he been able to accept them all.

His list -

Caps: England 11, Wales 10, Ireland 9, France 1.
League honours: English League 11, Irish League 2.

Medals -

League championships 9, Scottish Cup 3, Glasgow Cup 7, Charity Cup 8.

The club paid their gracious tribute to Alan Morton by electing him to the Board of Directors in season 1932/33. he began the season as a player, but after 6 league games and a Glasgow Cup tie, he pulled the honoured jersey over his head for the last time. Co-opted to the Board, his election was confirmed with sweeping satisfaction throughout the football world, as fitting recognition of this soccer immortal. "The Little Blue Devil", as Ivan Sharpe, the noted English writer dubbed him after he had bamboozled and jinked his way around the stricken English defenders in an International, brought freshness and infinite wisdom to the Board. His ability to read a game off the field as clearly as on it, enabled flaws to be detected and repaired, while in one glance, he could analyse a new player with his X-ray eyes and predict how he would comport himself in the future. he rarely made a mistake.
I say there will never be another Alan Morton. Master players will come and go. So too will men of greater physical structure, but none with the artifice, the poise, the amazing dexterity, assurance begotten of innate skill, lightning reflexes, and perhaps the greatest of his virtues, split-second timing.
He played 495 matches, all for the first eleven, and scored 115 goals.

No defence could quiten him. He set his own standards, just as Pele, the Brazilain wonderboy, or Di Stefano, or Puskas, of Real Madrid, did at their peak. He was world class even before he reached full maturity. He has said: "As a boy, I practiced for hours at a stretch with a ball, until I felt I was master of it. I loved every minute." And he certainly showed it in his supreme composure as he prodded for a back's weakness, and played on to it until his rival was left utterly bewildered at the ghost he could not lay. The England selectors, on one occasion, tried to solve the puzzle by fielding a player almosy his own size of 5ft 4inches. The luckless Englishman was driven to distraction as Alan sped past him as though he didn't exist - and the chuckling Scots on the Hampden terracing whooped their delight.

 

[Gio]

Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi 4. Krol 5. Zanetti 6. Kocsis 7. Vidic 8. Shesternyov 9. Pirri 10. Czibor 11. Pfaff

DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta, 4. Gascoigne 5. Makelele 6. McGrath 7. Vogts 8. Camacho 9. Seedorf 10. Drogba 11. Cech

KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik, 4. Sammer 5. Nedved 6. Valderrama 7. Banks 8. Schiaffino 9. Djalma Santos 10. Popluhar 11. Lizarazu

Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o, 4. Cannavaro 5. Coluna 6. Bremner 7. Carlos Alberto 8. Blanc 9. Alonso 10. Lahm 11. Preud’Homme

NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella 4. Boniek 5. Thuram 6. Tardelli 7. Carvalho 8. Blokhin 9. Rummenigge 10. Cole 11. Zamora

Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson 4. R Baggio 5. Charles 6. Tigana 7. Hierro 8. Maier 9. Nilton Santos 10. Shevchenko 11. Kahn

Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão 4. Giggs 5. Matthews 6. Brehme 7. Trésor 8. McGrain 9. Spencer 10. Germano 11. Sárosi

MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller 4. Luis Suárez 5. Meazza 6. Schmeichel 7. Rui Costa 8. Nasazzi 9. Chumpitaz 10. Zebec 11.Monti

JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps 4. Gento 5. Stam 6. Law 7. Deco 8. Janes 9. Augusto 10. Peters 11. Giles

mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner 4. Jairzinho 5. Bergomi 6. Varela 7. Koeman 8. Marzolini 9. Gerets 10. Kopa 11. Shilton

EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo 4. Figo 5. Romario 6. Desailly 7. Dzajic 8. Schnellinger 9. Essien 10. Guardiola 11. Southall

Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler 5. Davids 6. Gentile 7. Moreno 8. Nordahl 9. Franklin 10. Jennings 11. Demyanenko 12. Morton

Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti 5. Henry 6. R. Ferdinand 7. Effenberg 8. Vasovic 9. Dasayev 10. Andrade 11. Erico 12. Rivelino

Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness 5. Savicevic 6. Cafu 7. Kubala 8. Van Nistlerooy 9. Puyol 10. Ayala 11. Montero 12. Happel

Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen 5. Hagi 6. Finney 7. Viera 8. Irwin 9. Cabrini 10. Raul 11. Veron 12. Cordoba

paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust 5. Batistuta 6. Gullit 7. Socrates 8. Amoros 9. Schuster 10. Gordillo 11. Beckham 12. Gregg

 

[Fortitude]

^ formatting now looks horrible. Looks like a maze of words at the moment. Would it not benefit from spacing between drafters now?

Not that I'm aware of. He would likely have said he was the greatest in River's history though, that's pretty much undisputed.

Would have to have a rummage to find the piece i recall reading something along those lines from him. Can't remember the quote and may have got it wrong, just remember him showering a ridiculous amount of praise in it, so much so, it made me look into Moreno for myself.

 

[EDogen]

I pick Tarcisio Burgnich

 

[mightberight]

Gio will love this one ... Celtic legend, Jimmy Johnstone:

 

[Gio]

Aye good shout, did consider him but wanted to celebrate Morton's legacy instead. Perhaps Celtic's greatest player and one of the better pure wingers in the draft.

 

[Thisistheone]

Heading off soon, who can I pm my pick to in case?

 

[Isotope]

That must remind all the fathers here of their words in the maternity room.

 

[MJJ]

I will be online for a while, pm me and I will pass it on to whoever is on.

 

[MJJ]

Jake is online but not picking

 

[LoveInTheAsylum]

Apologies if it's already been discussed, but would most people agree that Hierro was in a completely different class to the likes of Keane? I figure Keane should be bullet proof enough on here that this won't be construed as talking down someone's player, but Brwned's free to tell me to eff off anyway. The selection order's got nothing to do with this as the one player per nationality rule complicates things a lot & everyone has their own strategy - I just think these things are interesting to get an idea of the reputation of different players, particularly when it comes to the voting.

I know they often had very different roles, but I just can't see that there's anything Keane could do that the Hierro couldn't in a superior way. I re-watched the 1990's CL finals many months back & as much as we revere Keane's performance in the '99 semi, Hierro's game in the final the year before was out of this world. He basically did most of Redondo's work for him in addition to his own role at centre-back. Against an even stronger Juve too, with Del Piero up front with Inzaghi.

 

[mightberight]

One thing that slightly irks me is some of the scoffing at certain modern players. Carvalho was utterly fantastic for Chelsea and I think deserves his place in the later rounds, but suffers because he's so fresh in everyone's minds. Also, a particular ex-Arsenal centre back was arguably just as good as Rio if not better, yet I know if I'd have picked him he'd attract criticism. The way it goes I guess.

 

[JakeC]

Don't know how this guy hasn't been picked yet.

Carlos Gamarra, the most capped footballer ever for Paraguay, one of the best center backs of all time.

 

[Gio]

I suspect you're going to get hammered for it, but it would be fair to say Fernando Hierro's contributions in midfield are under-recognised. 29 goals he banged in from there one campaign in the early 1990s, throw in that defensive solidity and visionary range of passing, and you've got one hell of a player on your hands Cutch.

 

[EDogen]

So what do people think about Tarcisio Burgnich? Not the first Italian defender you think about but still very good imo.

 

[Gio]

Don't know how this guy hasn't been picked yet.

Carlos Gamarra, the most capped footballer ever for Paraguay, one of the best center backs of all time.

I rated Gamarra based on his World Cup performances, but the fact I picked him up amongst the dregs of the 70s draft reflects he isn't going to be a huge vote-winner.

 

[MJJ]

Wim Suurbier

 

[NM]

Heading off soon, who can I pm my pick to in case?

PM me