I think he is going to play Charles as a CB as he already has two strikers to play up front, which I don't think is a good movie. Charles was good as CB but his peak was as a goalscorer from what Ive read.
All-Time Fantasy Draft
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) are here to give their reaction just hours after the news has broke. Where did it all go wrong for ETH? What's next for United? and what were the highlights?
They also react to United's loss away at West Ham, including a breakdown of that ridiculous VAR decision.
I think he is going to play Charles as a CB as he already has two strikers to play up front, which I don't think is a good movie. Charles was good as CB but his peak was as a goalscorer from what Ive read.
Just back in. Thanks to KM for posting for me. Just to expand on my last pick.
William John Charles (born: 27/12/1931) is considered by many to have been the greatest all-round footballer ever to come from Britain. It wasn't just that he was comfortable playing either centre-half or centre-forward. He was world class in both positions. Such was his versatility that he managed to break the Leeds United club scoring record with 42 goals in a season at a time when he was appearing at centre-half in internationals for Wales.
There is no comparable player with that kind of range in the modern game.
He was the first Briton to make the grade in Italian football and, forty years on, is probably the most successful export from League football to Serie A where his name is still revered. Certainly, Charles adapted quickly to the skill of the Italian League and made a more substantial and sustained impact than many of those who followed him, including Jimmy Greaves, Denis Law and Ian Rush. That is why he is a God to Juventus fans, the one they Christened "Il Buon Gigante" - the Gentle Giant.
He was supremely talented, possessing a delicate first touch and good control, and in the air he was masterful. Not just because of his spectacular ability to rise above defences, but also the awesome power with which he could head the ball. Apart from his versatility, he was comfortable with either foot, possessed great stamina and strength.
In the foreword for John's autobiography, Sir Bobby Robson described him as "incomparable" and classed him among the all-time footballing greats such as Pele, Diego Maradona and George Best. He also notes that Charles is the only footballing great to be world class in two very different positions.
Charles' accomplishments with Juventus led to him being voted "the greatest foreign player ever in Serie A", ahead of Maradona, Michel Platini, Marco Van Basten and Zinedine Zidane - this in 1997, 34 years after his last appearance in the league. In 2001 he became the first non-Italian inducted to the Azzurri Hall of Fame.
William John Charles (born: 27/12/1931) is considered by many to have been the greatest all-round footballer ever to come from Britain. It wasn't just that he was comfortable playing either centre-half or centre-forward. He was world class in both positions. Such was his versatility that he managed to break the Leeds United club scoring record with 42 goals in a season at a time when he was appearing at centre-half in internationals for Wales.
There is no comparable player with that kind of range in the modern game.
He was the first Briton to make the grade in Italian football and, forty years on, is probably the most successful export from League football to Serie A where his name is still revered. Certainly, Charles adapted quickly to the skill of the Italian League and made a more substantial and sustained impact than many of those who followed him, including Jimmy Greaves, Denis Law and Ian Rush. That is why he is a God to Juventus fans, the one they Christened "Il Buon Gigante" - the Gentle Giant.
He was supremely talented, possessing a delicate first touch and good control, and in the air he was masterful. Not just because of his spectacular ability to rise above defences, but also the awesome power with which he could head the ball. Apart from his versatility, he was comfortable with either foot, possessed great stamina and strength.
In the foreword for John's autobiography, Sir Bobby Robson described him as "incomparable" and classed him among the all-time footballing greats such as Pele, Diego Maradona and George Best. He also notes that Charles is the only footballing great to be world class in two very different positions.
Charles' accomplishments with Juventus led to him being voted "the greatest foreign player ever in Serie A", ahead of Maradona, Michel Platini, Marco Van Basten and Zinedine Zidane - this in 1997, 34 years after his last appearance in the league. In 2001 he became the first non-Italian inducted to the Azzurri Hall of Fame.
William Gallas and Christopher Samba.
Huth sometimes play as forward. Don't forget Kuyt, the best defensive forward of all time.
People's insistence on fecking about with players because they could do something never ceases to amaze me. Best Number 10 ever, what do you do? Send him to the wing. Obviously.
In what way precisely? I reckon players who could hold a two (not WM, noted) at the back should be more than comfortable as centrebacks.
In fact, they would piss themselves with how easy the job is (while modern CBs couldn't turn into old-school fullbacks easily).
Right or left halfbacks could be excellent attacking fullbacks. You wouldn't expect them to own the flank defensively, but attack-wise it is business as usual. A bit like playing Valencia -pre 2012-13- at fullback really. Does a lot fo defensive work right but certainly doesn't master the art.
I'm disagreeing with the emphasis you are placing on getting one of those three players. They might be more popular but I doubt 90% of the caf think Ronaldo is a better player than Cruyff.
Maradona is the biggest vote winner, but so what, it's not the decisive thing IMO or close to it. Matthaus and Rijkaard are the two best CM's (along with Neeskens) so that will catch them back up. Not that Zico was a bad 1st pick anyway!
It's easy to see whether you are right by how far those three teams, KM, Dan and Thisistheone, go in the competition.
We'll see...
and about the bolded, do you really believe that? Some on here swear blind Messi and C.Ronaldo are the first and second best players of all-time from the bottom of their heart... and they will be voting too...
Figured. Just wanted clarification. Cheers.
I like the spirit
Just make sure your team makes sense somewhat. 4-4-2 was definitely a no-no. Meazza on the left doesn't sit very well with me, but I don't think you'll get picked up on it too much if the rest looks good.My suggestion of getting a LWF was primarily thinking backups (and there are still some scorching ones out there). In the event that you get stick for it you can do something about it, which I think is always a good way to prepare. After the draft that's it!
There was a cracking story of Meazza arriving 5 minutes before a game against Milan. Some board members were fed up with his lifestyle and threatened to have words after the game, lots of loud Italian hand waving, etc... They never did, he scored a hat-trick
Insurance. That's what two subs are for, it's not like players get injured, is it?
Probably best for you (it has done my head in since I noticed I was 13th, far enough to miss out and not low enough to make pairs like paceme, or iso once paceme had done his CB pair).
It may well have taken you this long because you wrote off Brazil long ago. Why do you think the likes of Rivaldo and Falcao lasted so long? I'm still a bit miffed not to have gone for Falcao, but Rijkaard was never going to make it.
Cracking pick for either role. And if at CB and needing to chase a game just send him up as a centreforward, much much better than Gary Cahill at it.
Where the hell is mightberight? Is it really going to take until tomorrow until I get my next pick?
I like the spirit
My suggestion of getting a LWF was primarily thinking backups (and there are still some scorching ones out there). In the event that you get stick for it you can do something about it, which I think is always a good way to prepare. After the draft that's it!
There was a cracking story of Meazza arriving 5 minutes before a game against Milan. Some board members were fed up with his lifestyle and threatened to have words after the game, lots of loud Italian hand waving, etc... They never did, he scored a hat-trick
Insurance. That's what two subs are for, it's not like players get injured, is it?
Probably best for you (it has done my head in since I noticed I was 13th, far enough to miss out and not low enough to make pairs like paceme, or iso once paceme had done his CB pair).
It may well have taken you this long because you wrote off Brazil long ago. Why do you think the likes of Rivaldo and Falcao lasted so long? I'm still a bit miffed not to have gone for Falcao, but Rijkaard was never going to make it.
I don't get it, why exactly does he need a left wing version of Garrincha? He can have Meazza as the other wing forward and it's fine.
Whose up? this is taking too long!
Very doubtful, and I have no idea about his ability, so cannot say if he has it in him to play a wide forward.
If you have no idea, then why are you doubtful that he can play there? Everything I'v read and heard about him to me indicates that he clearly can.
The campaigning for and against other teams is tiresome..
I am doubtful because I have no idea, that doesn't make sense? He may or may not be good playing as a wing forward, depending on his abilities which I don't know. I am expecting the guy who picked him to back it up.
He seems to have played as an inside right in the World Cup final.
He seems to have played as an inside right in the World Cup final.
Meazza played inside forward for most of his career and by most accounts dropped deep enough and moved around the pitch enough to cast away doubts that he could play anywhere across the front line.
Where's the fecking campaigning? He asked for advice, I replied. I think it was useful as well, or would you rather I just clap my hands and tell him to go 4-4-2?
If someone asks for an opinion I give it, sometimes it's good, sometimes bad and the advice may be wrong because I'm human.
There's no fecking agenda except in your mind.
You don't say it's 'very doubtful' that he can play as a wing forward if you have no idea, you say you have no idea wether he can play there or not.
Everything suggests that he can in any case.
Wow, touchy. I wasn't even referring to so you can calm the feck down now.
Pardon my English, it is after all my third language, and thanks for the correction.
Can you explain further about his skillset that would enable him to well on the left of a 3 man attack that is quite modern for a player of that era? Thanks.
Yeah, he'll be centre half in this side. Need a dominant figure at the back and Charles is considered to be one of the best headers of a ball of all time.
I see very little from what i've seen, heard and read to say he was better in one position over the other. He generally played where there was the greater need for him. The universal opinion was thah he was world class in both positions. Nat Lofthouse and Denis Law among others said he was the best centre half they had ever played against.
Cracking pick for either role. And if at CB and needing to chase a game just send him up as a centreforward, much much better than Gary Cahill at it.
Exactly. Can you imagine sending him up for the last 10 minutes, and the threat he'd possess coming up at corners.
Never seen you riled up like this before, Fergus' son.
It's just a game, mate.
It's just a game, mate.
Yeah, he'll be centre half in this side. Need a dominant figure at the back and Charles is considered to be one of the best headers of a ball of all time.
I see very little from what i've seen, heard and read to say he was better in one position over the other. He generally played where there was the greater need for him. The universal opinion was thah he was world class in both positions. Nat Lofthouse and Denis Law among others said he was the best centre half they had ever played against.
Exactly. Can you imagine sending him up for the last 10 minutes, and the threat he'd possess coming up at corners.
He was a unique player, I'd give that to him. Must be a reason why he was called the Gentle Giant.
Only downside is that he is a Leeds Legend.
A lot of people will see Messi and just vote based on that. A lot won't but some will.
I also think this is a bit of a popularity competition too, last draft I recieved a bunch of PMS asking for my vote.
No problem, never knew English wasn't your first language because it's usually so good. Anyway, I suspect it wasn't actually a language problem but never mind.
I'm not completely clued about him but everything I'v heard and read suggest that he can play there. Firstly, many describe him as an inside forward, which would lead me to think that he can play as an inside forward coming from the left. Secondly, you have said he played as an right inside forward in the WC final, which again leads me to think he can do the same job on the left. Thirdly, he is considered one of the greatest attackers of all time, I think putting him in an attacking area is the requirement and then much of it is left to the player. Apparently he rarely disappointed.
Never seen you riled up like this before, Fergus' son.
It's just a game, mate.
It's your partner that's riled up, talk about touchy! Have a word will you?
Aldo, any chance you could do your wee graphic thing again? Good job for seein who's picked what nations
The point ultimately is if MJJ is lucky enough to face someone like Gary Kelly he will want a Giggs to drive home the disparity. An inside forward converted into a winger is expected to operate wide but not constantly attack, hugging the line and turn him over all day long.
I know which player I would rather have in that case, even when Meazza was the superior player/great overall. There are LWF out there who can do that job extremely well, why not pick them just in case?
He was a unique player, I'd give that to him. Must be a reason why he was called the Gentle Giant.
Only downside is that he is a Leeds Legend.
Never booked or sent off in his whole career!
I think it makes for a rubbish thread to start taking about people having agendas. I don't think anyone on here is stupid enough not to enjoy the exchanges during the draft in a forward and honest way. It's most of the fun.
Matchthreads are completely different beasts, of course.
Well yeah I have only been using it while talking to someone online as no one here speaks English, and it is going down the drain.
The Inside forward is a very tricky position. I think it varies from player to player, and many players who have played in that position might occupy completely different positions in the modern formations. The thing is that the inside forwards always had wingers on the same side to provide width, so it is difficult to say whether a player can play a wide forward role in a modern formation if he played as an inside forward earlier, and it would depend on the completeness of the player. Many of the inside forwards would actually be classic #10s in the modern teams imo, and wouldn't be at their best if played in a wide attacking role, of course unless they have the skills required for that. Tough call imo.
And I would like to clear that it is not that he would be a sitting duck if played there, just that whether that would be his best, or playing off a striker in a 2 man up front formation, or a full fledged number 10. Just like it was being said for Maradona, given his dribbling, work rate, movement and everything, he can easily rip most fullbacks if you play on the wing, but that takes aaway so much of his best attribute (imo) which is his passing. That was all the doubt I had about Meazza, obviously if you stick him on the left in the tournament later, not one person would say it is a big issue.
No problem, will be up in a few minutes.
You haven't even seen what he can do with his words yet. Wait for the matches to begin.
Those who played in a two would be playing the same role, just with more support - fine by me. You've got a point about the halfbacks in fairness, defensive midfielders have always been interchangeable with fullbacks (as shown by Zanetti and Breitner in this draft, or of course the great Owen Hagreaves) and given they started from a slightly wider position that would make them even more comfortable in this areas...it's still a bit of a stretch though. Definitely a few exceptions that could pull it off but then obviously you'd have to have a really clear grasp of their role in the team - that's the jist of my point. Don't be throwing 50s/60s defenders in there without any appreciation for the system they played in.
I think it makes for a rubbish thread to start taking about people having agendas. I don't think anyone on here is stupid enough not to enjoy the exchanges during the draft in a forward and honest way. It's most of the fun.
Matchthreads are completely different beasts, of course.
Well if I think people are being unnecessary critical for the sake of undermining another team, then I'll point it out.
I'v played other draft games with Aldo before and lets just say its not a surprise to me some of the points he has raised. He has no idea about Meazza but is 'very doubtful' that he can play as a left inside forward, despite everything suggesting the contrary?
Like I said, campaigning. Completely within his and your rights however, but it's also within mine to point out when I think certain criticisms are coming from a subjective, or downright biased standpoint.
What do you mean by that?
Back around for his second pick I assume?
Ahhh okay, yeah that makes sense.
Thought he meant that he wouldn't make the final, as in he would look to ship him out for an upgrade.
Thought he meant that he wouldn't make the final, as in he would look to ship him out for an upgrade.
We just got lost in translation, mate. The "everything" that is suggesting you otherwise, well I haven't heard any of that "everything" from the man who picked him or you, except all I hear is he can play there because he is a great player. That didn't really help my "doubts" over him. And again, I have "doubts" over him playing in any role since I have never seen him play, so well that is well I can explain what I want to say. Apologies if it doesn't help!