DanNistelroy goin for the popular vote again, I see.
All-Time Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter antohan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) are here to give their reaction just hours after the news has broke. Where did it all go wrong for ETH? What's next for United? and what were the highlights?
They also react to United's loss away at West Ham, including a breakdown of that ridiculous VAR decision.
He is going to run into the same problem I had. I kept switching Scholes from CM to AM to deep playmaker... and people said I had to pick one Scholes rather than have three different Scholes' operating in different parts of the game
feck!! I wanted either Scholes or Iniesta and now both are gone!!
Don't think that matters, really. They're going to be in combination as an attacking unit.
I did wonder what 'version' of Scholes (era) was being paired with Zidane - the goalscoring, attacking player or the deeper, game-controlling Scholes?
Scholes' peaks are quite subjective and probably a 50/50 split as to which was better, but it does alter the possibilities for the combo.
Yes, and having them share the ball when they're both going to want the majority of it isn't going to optimize either one of them.
Let's think about Scholes - whichever one that's brought to the table - and then consider Zidane's game; at which point do you think they overlap?
In theory, Scholes could well thrive in a shorter passing system than we've ever seen him play with United or in his career, but in reality, we've never seen Scholes play the type of football that would enable Zidane, and Scholes should never be subservient, which is going to be the case if they're in the same team - it's one or the other; I don't see a scenario where they're both able to thrive unless one gives up a portion of what makes him the player he is.
I think Gio may be upset about Souness going, not Santamaria. Stacks of excellent CBs around anyway.
Yeah I don't really like his picks. Him and Antohan are the only players without a greatest of all time level talent imo.
I wasn't kean on MJJ's first pick but he made up for it with Garrincha.
Well he's thrown Souness in the mix now. Guessing he'll use a 451/433 system with Zidane most advanced like the Iniesta role. Scholes -Xavi and Souness busquets
No no no.
Zidane is nothing like Iniesta, though, and he is not going to run and work in the same way or do the same things. The Barca template is not going to work with those players, imo.
If anything, you'd want young Scholes at the tip to take advantage of his final third play, but then you're forcing Zidane to be a central midfielder, at best, which he never played in his life.
You will have a hard time selling him, particularly since he sounds like a bad Rafa cheapskate buy.
Might have a hard time convincing people he is a hard bastard with a name like Valery
Having missed out on the obvious top 5-6 I'm aiming to build a balanced side, hoping for a lucky draw and nabbing those in reinforcement rounds.
Risky strategy, I know.
Mind you, I'm not sure what you mean by All-time greats. Laudrup is underrated, clearly, although I agree he is not Top 10 Ever or an All-Time XI starter.
But Facchetti? He could easily claim the LB slot in the All-Time XI.
NM had another player in mind who is a much better pick I think. We need someone more solid than Scholes to partner Neeskens against the calibre of midfield we are against here.
I hope you don't mean who I'm thinking about.
Good point. But will Scholes really be less important just because Zidane is in the team? Scholesy has never been the main man. For us in '99 there was Giggs, Keane, Beckham who all stood out. If he played a Barca type system, it might work? It would mean the latter Scholes than the goalscoring one, but that is still a brilliant little player.
We had Cantona as the creative player between midfield and attack. Then Rooney also loves to drop deep, and sometimes as the third midfielder. So, Zidane can function as those two players, and Scholes being Scholes.
Nah, this pick isn't a centre mid.
There are a few CM's left I think, we've got a world class player in Neeskens so can prioritise elsewhere for now.
The funny thing is I helped (not official AM, just PMs) Theon in one draft and my reaction to what he did and said was EXACTLY the one he is having with NM. Unreal.
He's a left back though, in the top three left backs of all time for sure but left backs aren't vote winners.
Agreed. Just they're mainly from big footballing countries.
Will be interesting to see if anyone takes a punt on the Frenchman.
PM time.
Well its so personal isn't it - everybody has an idea about who they like and what shape they want etc.
At least he's better than Phelan
As said, I'm trying to work around the fact I was never going to get my most favoured players in attacking mid/forward. That means focusing on
1. Keeping nationalities open for future reinforcement (avoid Brazil, Germany, Argentina until later rounds),
2. Picking players that you would carry all the way to the final with no reinforcement.
- Rijkaard is one such player, can't see who is a vast All-Time improvement on him in a modern formation.
- Laudrup wouldn't be my first pick across the frontline, but he was a cracking player and can be easily moved across the frontline and end up in the position where I don't get the all-time best player
- Iniesta is also a very flexible option with the same in mind
- Facchetti I will never need to swap. He is the best LB option, his main competition for the Best Ever spot comes from a player whose nationality you would rather use elsewhere.
Of course, there's a massive risk I don't get an easy draw and get knocked out straight away, but if I'm going to have any chance of winning this I need to do my drafting in such a way that the reinforcements later can help close the gap.
'99 Scholes is a very different player to post '06 Scholes. Post '06 Scholes was absolutely the main man and prior to that we had no one in the team who was going to take up the positions he did or want the ball in the same manner as him, whereas with Zidane, you've got a player who will only function in one way and is not going to be optimized if used outside of that - there'd be a lot of toe-stepping there, imo.
Cantona and Rooney are support/2nd strikers by default; it's their natural position on the pitch. Zidane has never played support striker and he is going to want to drop, and more importantly, stay, deep for the majority of the game with a full field of vision of the final third in front of him, not being the man who loiters along that imaginary final third line and bides his time to come into the game.
Zidane played most of his club career with a support striker and a '9' in front of him and for France, he sat very deep for an attacking midfielder.
Iniesta's workrate and responsible play is what sets him apart from the likes of Zidane in my view. He was part of a really effective defensive unit while Zidane was supported by a really effective defensive unit. In the end both France and Madrid played him as an inside left for a reason.
Gutted Facchetti's gone now, had him in mind the whole time but hadn't realised there's such a steep step down in terms of Italians after him. Still some great players of course but it's hard to know when to go for them.
That was crap.
Opinions on my picks so far?
Opinions on my picks so far?
Brwned, I am back, disregard my PM
Jurgen Kohler
In the search for a top banana centre-half to counter the most talented strikers selected so far, Kohler stood out for me as the greatest man-marker of the last 25 years.
Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi
DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta
KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik
Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o
NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella
Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson
Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão
MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller
JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps
mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner
EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo
Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler
Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti
Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness
Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen
paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust
Keep the formatting, reply to this post and edit rather than copy paste
In the search for a top banana centre-half to counter the most talented strikers selected so far, Kohler stood out for me as the greatest man-marker of the last 25 years.
Fergus'son: 1. Beckenbauer 2. Eusebio 3. Didi
DanNistelrooy: Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Ronaldinho 3. Nesta
KM: 1. Messi 2. Scirea 3. Bozsik
Thisistheone: 1. Maradona 2. B.Charlton 3. Eto'o
NM: 1. Pele 2. Neeskens 3. Passarella
Cutch: 1. Best 2. Van Basten 3. Robson
Brwned: 1. Di Stéfano 2. Keane 3. Falcão
MJJ: 1. Duncan Edwards 2. Garrincha 3. Muller
JakeC: 1. Ronaldo 2. Maldini 3. Deschamps
mightberight: 1. Ferenc Puskas 2. Stoichkov 3. Breitner
EDogen: 1. Cruyff 2. Moore 3. Redondo
Gio: 1. Platini 2. Xavi 3. Rivaldo 4. Kohler
Antohan: 1. Laudrup 2. Rijkaard 3. Iniesta 4. Facchetti
Stobzilla: 1. Zidane 2. Yashin (Russia) 3. Scholes 4. Souness
Isotope: 1. Zico 2. L. Matthäus 3. Santamaríá 4. Hansen
paceme: 1. Figueroa 2. Baresi 3. Voronin 4. Masopust
Keep the formatting, reply to this post and edit rather than copy paste
yyyyyyou feckING BASTARD !!!
Looks like Van Basten gettin the better of him there
Exaclty, I wanted someone who would have a greater all-round contribution and not be purely a single all-in-one creative focal point.
I'm quite happy to miss out on Baresi, Scirea and Nesta to have that flank bolted and supporting the attack effectively. Fullbacks may not be great vote winners, but I'd rather not face some of the wingers on this with the fantasy legend that is Gary Kelly. Not losing votes to a key player is sometimes as important as getting them.
Looks like Van Basten gettin the better of him there
He did ultimately in that match but I think both players rated one another as the toughest opponents they faced.Very nice side you're building there Gio.
Gary Kelly!
Forget Kelly, I've got Rob Jones primed for my right-back slot.
Honestly, I think you got too tied up in the romance and are in real trouble. You will need your two very inspired first picks on top form to salvage something.
Why exactly is that? Two very hard working midfielders. One of whom is up there as one of the best deep lying play makers of all time and the other is able to slot back in to defence comfortably to cover for one of my two defenders inevitably attacking. I could of picked some attackers but it seems more important for me to get a midfield of quality together first and the only major nation I have used is Italy.
I don't agree with the idea fullbacks aren't vote-winners anyway. You look at Evra on the teamsheet and you know he'll be hugely influential in attack. Facchetti's the same. Perhaps Facchetti won't get the credit he deserves but he's a big vote-winner for me. I actually think he's markedly better than Maldini who is a fair bit overrated in my view. Hate to say that because I love Maldini in the same way I love Giggsy but saying he's the best left back to play the game isn't much more outrageous than calling Giggs the best winger to play the game, IMO. It's always seemed like people put Maldini put in various all-time XI's just to shoehorn in a modern player.
Voronin's such an obscure pick, you'll be playing with 10 men in many voters' eyes and even those who take the time to read about him will need some kind of evidence that he was as good as suggested. I'd never heard of him before so read a bit about him and might even watch a game of his later this week - that's what this draft's all about for me so it's a great pick in that sense. It just won't work for votes.
Why did no-one other than Stobzilla PM me? No-one's expected to be on here all day checking the thread each time but it really isn't that difficult to PM someone 4 or 5 suggestions.