All-Time Fantasy Draft - EDogen v Brwned

Who will win based on players in their prime, team tactics, balance & bench strength?

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
I don't think it is right for an admin to randomly walk in after the voting closed and give it. It's somewhat unfair on EDogen.

I'm inclined to believe Fortitude would have gone with Brwned though, and everyone had agreed he was worthy of a casting vote.

Fortitude, can you confirm this?
 
Match fixing is alive and well it seems.

kidding
 
If this is still a draw, may I propose a simple idea?

Both managers pick a neutral and submit them five penalty takers and precise which way the player would be shooting the penalty, that is left, right or middle.

Similarly, both managers precise the same for their goalkeepers and tell the neutral which way the GK would dive for each penalty.

The order should be respected.

Then the neutral simply discloses it here and we see how many each side was able to score.

Pretty harsh for whoever goes out as this is simply guessing, but so are real life penalties to an extent and this seems to be very, very easy.
 
Whoever does cast the final vote I think should atleast give a brief explanation as to why.

Fortitude isn't keen on doing so, who are our other options?
 
AldoRaine18 said:
If this is still a draw, may I propose a simple idea?

Both managers pick a neutral and submit them five penalty takers and precise which way the player would be shooting the penalty, that is left, right or middle.

Similarly, both managers precise the same for their goalkeepers and tell the neutral which was the GK would dive for each penalty.

The order should be respected.

Then the neutral simply discloses it here and we see how many each side was able to score.

Pretty harsh for whoever goes out as this is simply guessing, but so are real life penalties to an extent and this seems to be very, very easy.
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I like this idea.. Nice one Aldo.

May be even the neutral person tell us after every kick what the result was (which way the player went and which way the keeper dived), as it could influence the next PKs, and increase the tension!
 
Danny1982 said:
I like this idea.. Nice one Aldo.

May be even the neutral person tell us after every kick what the result was (which way the player went and which way the keeper dived), as it could influence the next PKs, and increase the tension!
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Possible as long as both managers and neutral agree to send a new PM after every result instead of sending all 5 together. Would take a bit more time but nothing that should be tedious.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
If this is still a draw, may I propose a simple idea?

Both managers pick a neutral and submit them five penalty takers and precise which way the player would be shooting the penalty, that is left, right or middle.

Similarly, both managers precise the same for their goalkeepers and tell the neutral which way the GK would dive for each penalty.

The order should be respected.

Then the neutral simply discloses it here and we see how many each side was able to score.

Pretty harsh for whoever goes out as this is simply guessing, but so are real life penalties to an extent and this seems to be very, very easy.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly open to the idea! Let's not play down the skill and mental pressure associated with a genuine penalty shootout though, this would just be a random selection of directions with no substitute for the technique involved nor the mind-games of the opposition.

I'd still prefer not to go out on what amounts to a flip of a coin though, really.
 
Brwned said:
I'm certainly open to the idea! Let's not play down the skill and mental pressure associated with a genuine penalty shootout though, this would just be a random selection of directions with no substitute for the technique involved nor the mind-games of the opposition.
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Not if you take them one by one! :smirk:
 
Brwned said:
I'm certainly open to the idea! Let's not play down the skill and mental pressure associated with a genuine penalty shootout though, this would just be a random selection of directions with no substitute for the technique involved nor the mind-games of the opposition.

I'd still prefer not to go out on what amounts to a flip of a coin though, really.
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Well, if you think a little into it, there are ways to increase your odds, but also increase the risk if you know what I mean.
 
Good shout Aldo. Picking one by one would add a bit of suspense & pressure to it all.
 
Yeah, there's an element of skill to it. It's just not something I'd enjoy being a part of! Definitely adds a bit of fun to what's been a surprisingly entertaining game. Deciding vote's my preferred option but if EDogen wants to go down the exciting route then I can be persuaded!
 
As long as we agree on something before it happens I am okay with it. But like Brwned said coin flip it is but I have no better idea.
 
Brwned said:
Yeah, there's an element of skill to it. It's just not something I'd enjoy being a part of! Definitely adds a bit of fun to what's been a surprisingly entertaining game. Deciding vote's my preferred option but if EDogen wants to go down the exciting route then I can be persuaded!
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I rather not base it on luck me neither.
 
EDogen said:
As long as we agree on something before it happens I am okay with it. But like Brwned said coin flip it is but I have no better idea.
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I'm with you on that one. I proposed this as it is quite easy to carry out and doesn't favour one or the other. I remember someone ran a Football Manager sim by organizing the database and everything, though I don't think that was much different to this, specially as that guy set all the players at 20/20 penalty taking.

Apart from that I don't think we have been able to find anything that is not unfair. A couple of times one guy decides the whole thing, even though it is an informed vote, but still it completely disregards the voting for 24 hours in a way.

In any case, I'll be here for a while, just tell me if you both are up for it. At the end it's your call.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
I'm with you on that one. I proposed this as it is quite easy to carry out and doesn't favour one or the other. I remember someone ran a Football Manager sim by organizing the database and everything, though I don't think that was much different to this, specially as that guy set all the players at 20/20 penalty taking.

Apart from that I don't think we have been able to find anything that is not unfair. A couple of times one guy decides the whole thing, even though it is an informed vote, but still it completely disregards the voting for 24 hours in a way.

In any case, I'll be here for a while, just tell me if you both are up for it. At the end it's your call.
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If they want a way of skill, why not outlay the reasons why you think you would win at peno's vs the other and let people re-vote, say first to ten or something?
 
AldoRaine18 said:
I'm with you on that one. I proposed this as it is quite easy to carry out and doesn't favour one or the other. I remember someone ran a Football Manager sim by organizing the database and everything, though I don't think that was much different to this, specially as that guy set all the players at 20/20 penalty taking.

Apart from that I don't think we have been able to find anything that is not unfair. A couple of times one guy decides the whole thing, even though it is an informed vote, but still it completely disregards the voting for 24 hours in a way.

In any case, I'll be here for a while, just tell me if you both are up for it. At the end it's your call.
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Yeah, 1 vote that means more than 50 votes. I do not like that either.
 
EDogen said:
Yeah, 1 vote that means more than 50 votes. I do not like that either.
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It's a deciding vote, same as if someone voted last minute with the game tied. It doesn't discount earlier votes, as you both needed those votes in order not be declared the loser in normal time.
 
It's not one vote that means more than 50 votes, that'd be like saying your last-minute equalising vote was worth more than the previous 49 because it was a decisive one! I think it's the fairest way.
 
How many options are there for a penalty? Left, right or down the middle? Or top left, bottom left etc.
 
Well if you are okay with it, it works for me. But how to pick that voter? Someone with knowledge? A total random? Should be someone with no "relation" to either of us. But it will all come down to personal taste of that one which will be like a coin flip.
 
For penatlies I would go with 9 possible positions: any two from left, centre & right and high, middle & low.
 
AldoRaine18 said:
Yeah you can increase it like that, 6 positions.
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Right, left and middle will also do, because it gives the player a bigger chance to score, but leaves the keeper with a reasonable chance to save a kick..

The perfect scenario will be for them to post here before they send the PMs (before each kick) to try and trick each other.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
For penatlies I would go with 9 possible positions: any two from left, centre & right and high, middle & low.
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But that gives the keeper only an 11% chance of saving a kick, which is much lower than the case in reality, where the conversion rate is about 75-80% (Unless it's United that's shooting!).
 
Danny1982 said:
But that gives the keeper only an 11% chance of saving a kick, which is much lower than the case in reality, where the conversion rate is about 75-80% (Unless it's United that's shooting!).
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Think of it like a Sudoku grid, with 9 boxes. Each player choses a number (ideally submitting two sets of five numbers, one for takers and one for the keeper), if they choose the same number, the keeper saves it.

Still haven't figured out how to incorporate the potential for row Z style misses into that, mind you.
 
EDogen said:
Well if you are okay with it, it works for me. But how to pick that voter? Someone with knowledge? A total random? Should be someone with no "relation" to either of us. But it will all come down to personal taste of that one which will be like a coin flip.
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Well yes, but you can look at any option that way. That's what a tie-break is, no?

Are Fortitude or peterstorey not impartial, knowledgeable observers?
 
Danny1982 said:
Even though I agree Romario was a lazy player and probably never lived up to his potential, but I felt that was a bit too harsh on him, since he has played in a system like this (in Barcelona 1994-1995), scoring 30 goals in 33 league games..

Every player has his pros and cons, and I feel if we highlight every con for every player we'll never find the perfect player really, but overall I still thought that was a bit too harsh on a player who has scored ~1000 goals in his career, something very few players were able to do.
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As I said, in no way am I knocking Romario - he was my favourite player outside of United at that time.

Cruyff's Barca is a different animal to EDogen's side in a few ways, and besides which, Stoichkov and Romario were pretty much a duo who were always pinging the ball off each other whilst both staying in and around the final third. If you want Cruyff to do that, you're wasting half of his talent.. and the further he is away from Romario, the more problems arise due to Romario's style of play and preferred manner of doing things.

It should be noted that Romario always had a partner in crime during his time at the very top. He forged magical partnerships with: Stoichkov, Bebeto, Edmundo, Ronaldo and in all of them the common denominator was the tight one and two touch play and the fact every single one of them did more work than he did. Like I said, his game was about cunning and short, intensive bursts of brilliance. The guy is not ever going to run hard for half a half let alone a full game, so that needs to be catered for, imo.
antohan said:
I don't think it is right for an admin to randomly walk in after the voting closed and give it. It's somewhat unfair on EDogen.

I'm inclined to believe Fortitude would have gone with Brwned though, and everyone had agreed he was worthy of a casting vote.

Fortitude, can you confirm this?
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Wasn't going to vote, anto.

Gonna need another chap for that job!
 
If the manager tells that the keeper would be simply standing his ground, both low and middle in the center would be saved, and in a lot of cases high would be too.
 
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