All-Time Fantasy Draft - EDogen v Brwned

Who will win based on players in their prime, team tactics, balance & bench strength?


  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
I almost gave my vote to EDogen in that switch. :lol:

Same here, couldn't see him getting back into it AT ALL. Will let it ride for a while before voting, but EDogen has made a good switch, while ahead, and I can see that working, whether I'm the only one seeing them in that context is a different matter.
 
wait.. how does a "trial" tactical switch work? That isn't fair at all - most people just see the OP and vote.
 
He made a sub - there is no way you can make a trial sub in real life!
 
It made me gain one vote and lose two - I'm sure EDogen's not complaining! I just thought we were pretty loose about the subs given we'd switched players on and off before.
 
wait.. how does a "trial" tactical switch work? That isn't fair at all - most people just see the OP and vote.

It's now on the rules in the main thread. Can't be done again.
 
Yeah its fine. Was just wondering. TBH this was a very tough draw for both. Two very good teams. I JUST went EDogen.
 
This is too close to call.

I reckon the three in midfield could pretty much cancel each other out, with Brwned having more attacking quality in his three.

But then, while Di Stéfano will make up for the extra "defensive man", that assignment and Guardiola tracking him will shackle him more than Cruyff, who seems to have all the space in the world to roam in unattended.

I can see Matthews and Figo being taken care of, not so Giggs vs. Burgnich and Cruyff vs. McGrain/Germano. Cruyff/Romario facing a less impressive defence than Giggs/Spencer... Have to say, both pairs suit each other: Cruyff/Spencer and Giggs/Romario would be poorer than either of the actual ones.

There's a difference in quality in the one breaking through the weak links (Cruyff>Giggs), but Giggs in attack would have Di Stéfano to play with, while Cruyff doesn't have much to play off.

Ultimately, I can see Brwned's forwards seeing a lot more of the ball and that will make the difference.
 
Ouch, gap was down to four, now six. There's still legs in this one though.
 
Just read through this and the other thread and the popularity thing is already derailing this portion of the draft for me.

'Don't know him or him or him' = vote for the other side. :annoyed:

I did think this bit would have more tactical analysis and consideration for the actual utilization of the players than it has had.

Some people said to me in the draft I should have more faith that the uber-popular caf favourite players won't carry teams through the draft, but judging from the two games thus far, i can't see anything but that happening!
 
Some people said to me in the draft I should have more faith that the uber-popular caf favourite players won't carry teams through the draft, but judging from the two games thus far, i can't see anything but that happening!

Brwned has both Keane and Giggs in his team, if it was just down to the Caf voting for their favourites, he'd be winning.
 
Brwned has both Keane and Giggs in his team, if it was just down to the Caf voting for their favourites, he'd be winning.

Yet, you must be clear familiarity is killing him more than it is EDogen.

  • The midfield trio: surely everyone sees Keane>Essien, but do they see Falcao>Redondo and Di Stefano > Guardiola? Attack-wise probably, but defensively? I reckon they at least match if not surpass them defensively, and once on the ball it is far superior at using it. Guardiola's pin-point passes are devastating, but that's nowhere near enough relative to what Brwned's trio offers going forward.

  • The striker: Romario was a cracking player and the better option for EDogen's side. Spencer though is getting no credit whatsoever, when he basically is one of maybe 5 strikers who best suit Brwned's team.

  • No one is picking up on what Brwned pointed out about Burgnich, which is very accurate indeed. In fairness to EDogen, he hasn't tried to portray him as an attacking beast, but he really wasn't a proper fullback either and didn't have the attributes required of a modern defensive fullback, let alone an attacking one.
Drogba and Sanchez -who were knocking about way after Spencer got picked- would be more popular choices, yet the wrong ones. Not having a household name at striker is costly on this and clearly is costing him.

With the likes of Germano, Burgnich, Matthews or even Falcao I understand people won't bother reading up too much and play it by ear. But if faced with a striker you know nothing about and your vote is being affected by it, you could do worse than click on the links and try find out who the hell that is and whether they were any good.
 
Brwned should be fighting this one, very little in it.

It was always going to be like this against Brwned! I´m just hoping my team can hold on to this and maybe a late goal from Romario will seal the win!
 
Reiterating many of the early comments, there's very little in it. Brwned's midfield trio is top drawer and I suspect they'd establish some control over the match in decisive areas, whereas I can see EDogen's midfield three looking nice in possession, but becoming vulnerable to getting overpowered at times. EDogen's got a stronger partnership at centre-half so there's scope for Romario to make an impact, particularly on the counter.
 
Right, let's go over a few things then.

Who is the worst player on the pitch? Essien. The only position he consistently played well in was in the "Makélélé role" but here he's being given more responsibility, in fact according to EDogen he'll be joining in the attack, again leaving Redondo and Guardiola to take on the most competitive, dominant, well-rounded midfield trio in the draft. There's no room for weak links in the middle against those three and at this level he very much is that. Is anyone going to be talking about Essien in 10 years time? Perhaps as a "what could have been" player, nothing more. He was a good player for a number of years for Chelsea with the occasional flashes of brilliance.

Di Stéfano was the heart of a Madrid team that won 5 European Cups in a row and 7 La Liga titles in 11 years. Keane was the hearbeat of a team that won 7 Premier Leagues, 4 FA cups and a Champions League in 10 years. Falcao was the brains of what many consider the greatest Brazil side outside of Pelé's 1970 team and the greatest team to never win the World Cup. Also the brains of a terrific Internacional side that won 8 league titles in a row.

Does his midfield really compare to that? Certainly not, so he's getting dominated. Giggs and Matthews are getting the ball constantly and taking on their man 1v1 and relishing the battles. Stanley Matthews, the first player to win the Ballon d'Or in 1956 (with 2nd place Di Stéfano supporting him), is up against a very tough German - it's certainly not a one way thing. Matthews will always, always be beating his man a few times a game though, there's just no way of completely nullifying a player with that kind of balance, dribbling and pace. Just look at Valencia last season and imagine him being so effective at what he does that he becomes a Ballon d'Or winner. And then with Cruyff on the same flank given licence to drift about as he pleases, that leaves Celtic's greatest ever right back to gobble up the space and take on Schnellinger 2v1. On the other side you've got Giggs up against one of the slowest players in the draft and he's constantly being dragged out into positions he doesn't want to be because 1v1, he's going to get roasted more than a few times. He'll want to tuck in and provide cover for his centre backs with excellent positional play but he's being dragged out wide to nullify a man who pretty much destroyed every fullback he came up against in the early 90s. Fio will be doing what he can to take care of Brehme but all he needs is a little bit of space and he'll be whipping in pin-point crosses to La Cabeza Mágica.

Up front all you need to do is look at the IFFHS Century selections - Alberto Spencer is named the 20th best South American player in history, Romario's 30th on the same list. I'm not going to talk down the little Brazilian at all. For me, he was a genius at his peak. Lightning quick acceleration, deceptively good dribbling, clinical finishing, terrific reactions and an outstanding eye for a run in behind. I'd even go as far as saying he's underrated by many. What I will say is Alberto Spencer possessed all of that along with incredible aerial prowess. You have to be a pretty special player to be 10 places above Romario.

There's just no way Moore and Desailly can handle that kind of onslaught. As good as they were, they both played in teams that tended to have far more of the ball than they're likely to see here. They're up against the all-time top scorer in the South American equivalent of the Champions League and a man who scored Madrid's opening goal in 4 of their 5 Champions League finals - good luck.
 
Who is the worst player on the pitch? Essien. The only position he consistently played well in was in the "Makélélé role" but here he's being given more responsibility, in fact according to EDogen he'll be joining in the attack, again leaving Redondo and Guardiola to take on the most competitive, dominant, well-rounded midfield trio in the draft. There's no room for weak links in the middle against those three and at this level he very much is that. Is anyone going to be talking about Essien in 10 years time? Perhaps as a "what could have been" player, nothing more. He was a good player for a number of years for Chelsea with the occasional flashes of brilliance.

We're discussing players at their peak, as per the rules.

2005-08, Essien was amongst - if not the - best box-to-box central midfielders in the World.

Falcao was the brains of what many consider the greatest Brazil side outside of Pelé's 1970 team and the greatest team to never win the World Cup. Also the brains of a terrific Internacional side that won 8 league titles in a row.

Does his midfield really compare to that? Certainly not, so he's getting dominated.

I neither believe Brazil's '82 side to be the best not to win the competition, nor Falcao to be as good as Redondo.

Up front all you need to do is look at the IFFHS Century selections - Alberto Spencer is named the 20th best South American player in history, Romario's 30th on the same list.

True I'm sure, but many won't have heard of Spencer.

I had a look at World Soccer's Greatest Players of the 20th Century and Spencer isn't listed, whilst Romario makes #26. It's all opinions!
 
I want brwned out just so I don't have to face him in the next round :lol: scary if he adds Cryuff to his team.

Won't be like that. All the players of the 8 losing teams would be put in one pool and all the winning teams would pick them in the same order as before.

Read the main thread's OP!
 
We're discussing players at their peak, as per the rules.

2005-08, Essien was amongst - if not the - best box-to-box central midfielders in the World.

I neither believe Brazil's '82 side to be the best not to win the competition, nor Falcao to be as good as Redondo.

True I'm sure, but many won't have heard of Spencer.

I had a look at World Soccer's Greatest Players of the 20th Century and Spencer isn't listed, whilst Romario makes #26. It's all opinions!

Aw come on, let's not be having that nonsense about Essien again! He was possibly the most well-rounded centre mid in the game but throughout that time he was being talked about as being "wasted" as a holding midfielder, and when he did get played further forward he scored 2 or 3 good goals in the space of a month and then looked a little average for a period. He never consistently excelled in what many called his "best position" and the only time he did consistently excel was when he was "shackled by Chelsea". And he's playing in a different position in this game. There's absolutely no way anyone would play the best centre mid in the world at right back in the Champions League final. It's far too important a position to throw away that kind of quality.

I personally don't think it is either but that's besides the point, surely? It's the fact that they're in the mix when you've got sensational sides like Hungary '54 and Holland '74 - that's a mark of real class. How many players have been given the Silver Ball despite going out in the quarter-finals? I'd be surprised if there were even 2 or 3 others. I think you're mad for rating Redondo over him though.
 
Essien did mark out Gerrard in the 08-09 Champions League game, when that attack and in particular Gerrard was unstoppable, putting 4 goals past Madrid and us not long back. He stuck to him like a leech, so his shift cannot be ignored. Pep's still the man you should target imo, not Essien who was pretty special and had it not been injuries, he could have made it to the level of Keane or Vieira.
 
There's absolutely no way anyone would play the best centre mid in the world at right back in the Champions League final. It's far too important a position to throw away that kind of quality.

Well there's a few factors to that. First is that Avram Grant was the Chelsea manager! But if we rule that out and just look at the logic, the second point is that Chelsea had Lampard and Makelele in the middle, whilst lastly, you might play a player of Essien's quality at right-back if he's being asked to stop the World's best player.
 
Am I right in thinking he did a poor job on Ronaldo? For some reason half of me is thinking Ronaldo tore him a new one in the first half and he looked completely lost, the other half says I can't remember Ronaldo being involved in any of our best moves outside of our goal...or was he the one who crossed it in for Tevez in what would've been one of the most fantastic CL final goals in history?

EDIT: Never mind! I can't be picking up on Guardiola personally, he's in the right setup now and he's certainly worthy of a place in this game. I'm quite certain no-one'll be picking Essien when we're playing this game in 10 years time....
 
Am I right in thinking he did a poor job on Ronaldo? For some reason half of me is thinking Ronaldo tore him a new one in the first half and he looked completely lost, the other half says I can't remember Ronaldo being involved in any of our best moves outside of our goal...or was he the one who crossed it in for Tevez in what would've been one of the most fantastic CL final goals in history?

EDIT: Never mind! I can't be picking up on Guardiola personally, he's in the right setup now and he's certainly worthy of a place in this game. I'm quite certain no-one'll be picking Essien when we're playing this game in 10 years time....

Well that is more to do with him not having a long career due to injuries. For me he is right up there with the best workhorses of the decade, plus in this draft his nation also played a big part in him getting picked.
 
2 votes, you bastards. This is worse than losing convincingly! If only I could bribe the newbies with rep points in exchange for votes.
 
I voted for Brwned, as bringing Essien on clearly gave the upper hand to Brwned's team.

Brwned team is a much better attacking unit, while defensively I am not sure there is a lot to separate
 
We're discussing players at their peak, as per the rules.

2005-08, Essien was amongst - if not the - best box-to-box central midfielders in the World.

This is something that I think many has forgotten due to his last years. I truly believe that my trio of Essien, Guardiola and Redondo match up with Brwneds midfield.
 
Up front all you need to do is look at the IFFHS Century selections - Alberto Spencer is named the 20th best South American player in history, Romario's 30th on the same list. I'm not going to talk down the little Brazilian at all... You have to be a pretty special player to be 10 places above Romario.

I had a look at World Soccer's Greatest Players of the 20th Century and Spencer isn't listed, whilst Romario makes #26. It's all opinions!

In fairness, it isn't that much about opinions but who you ask and in what context.

Most rankings like the one produced by Cling willl be based on World Cups, maybe the CL, Ballon d'Or votes, etc. which is not the best way to assess a player at their peak over the entire XXth Century. They always gravitate towards modern players and away from older players, particularly if from small nations.

The ranking produced by Brwned is a very useful one, but its remit is South America. Romario's impact in South America is solely restricted to whatever he ever accomplished with Brazil's national team and his late retirement with clubs chasing the 1,000 goal mark. That is, not a fair reflection on Romario.

Being 20th though indicates how good Spencer was considering he has no NT brownie points to collect, relative to higher ranked players who mainly plied their trade in South America and played for big nations.

Overall, Spencer was not precisely 10 places better off than Romario, but he really was a cracking player. In Peñarol's victorious two-leg final against Real in '66 he scored three of Peñarol's 4 goals (2 away at the Bernabeu, if I recall correctly).

Once, in one of the many European friendlies that were organised to showcase South America's best to the European public, Pelé actually came up to him, with Peñarol 5-0 up against Santos (4 by Spencer), and asked him to stop humilliating them or it would all end in a messy punch up. He was one of the greatest, at a time when they weren't scarce at all.
 
This is a great match

It was always going to be the case and whoever loses it will be a real shame they got such a matchup.

That little trial with Haan may end up making all the difference, it sure would have as both Aldo and I were ready to go for EDogen in that scenario.
 
First time I've been level all game. That prick Gio went offline and all, he was eyeing up this thread the whole time waiting to pounce - I know because I was eyeing up him eyeing it up!