Big tactical move by Edogen there.
All-Time Fantasy Draft - EDogen v Brwned
- Thread starter Brwned
- Start date
Wrong substitution for me, I would've left Dzajic on and prefer Cruyff in the centre.
No not at all, I just think if you're going to judge them off of tidbits of information then quotes are far more reliable than highlights. This for me tells you far more than any video of Di Stéfano, for example:
If you think Drogba is the vote-winner, perhaps you should have. I couldn't tell you who was better, I don't even know who Spencer is. But it's probably the mythical pick because his stats suggest lots but I couldn't tell you how he'll play with any of your other players.
By 9th pick, I think the best had gone. Spencer is not considered amongst the all time great strikers, so he'll not do you many favours to win the match.
Cruyff will not just stand out there on the left. Actually he kind of did not have a firm position on the pitch, so he will find positions with his intelligence and yes he will end up in the middle a lot of times.
EDogen's new midfield will seal this I think. Still haven't voted though.
I can understand that, and there are a lot of players in this draft that I've never seen play, but have heard about from anecdotes, Di Stefano being one. However, both teams have players that I don't know anything about, so I have to try to judge it based on what I do know, highlights, anecdotes and managers pursuasion!
Interesting substitution from Edogen there...
What's the point in picking popular players over the better players though? It's cheap. Spencer suited my team better and was the better player.
He'd play as a typical #9 for the most part, offering a superb target due to his aerial strength, mobility and willingness to play on the shoulder of the defence, but he'd also drop deep from time to time to beat a man on his own and create a chance...just like he did in what many call one of the greatest intercontinental cups of all-time up against Gento's Madrid as he picked it up from the halfway line, dribbled past a couple of players and slotted it in with his weaker foot. I was going to cut out a few quick highlights from that game to give people an idea of Spencer's game but then if no-one has the time to read a few quotes then I doubt they'll watch a video.
Spencer is not considered amongst the all-time great strikers, yet he was voted 20th best South American player in the history of the game (or 5th best striker ahead of the likes of Ronaldo and Romario) by IFFHS. How does that work?
Kind of illustrates my problem with it, Cruyff will move to the centre which is already looking slightly crowded by your abundance of central players, Figo often roamed centrally too. This will leave Brwned wingers and wingbacks the oppurtunity to double up on thier counterparts. That, combined with Spencer's ability in the air and De stafano getting in and around him will cause problems.
Essien, Redondo and Cruyff, with Figo helping out would have sufficed in the centre. As is it you have over compensated and left yourself vulnerable to one of his most telling tactical moves.
Essien will give me a new dimension. And this time he is not held back by playing in the "Makelele role". Strength, heading, shooting, passing, incredible stamina, tackles well, inspirational, disciplined, techique he just got everything in his locker. And by playing in a midfield three he can use all that when he is given space to join the attack.
I took Dzajic off because I feel that Cruyff and Schnellinger could work well there. And mostly as I said because I will get more from Essien in a midfield three. Also this suits Guardiola well.
I took Dzajic off because I feel that Cruyff and Schnellinger could work well there. And mostly as I said because I will get more from Essien in a midfield three. Also this suits Guardiola well.
I agree with this a bit. Pep is being downplayed a bit. One of the best passing range in the draft, and combined with that great vision and tactical awareness, not to mention inch perfect technical ability. What his and Redondo's presence does is restrict Brwned's defense from pushing up, because if they is one thing you don't want, it is Pep picking out Romario with an easy through ball from the back and the defense being left stranded. And he is quite capable of doing that. The array and range of passing from those two players can easily feck around with any defense for fun, and then comes in cruyff. Romario would never want to stop playing with service like that. That midfield might not be as all round and hardworking as Brwned's but they can control the game with possession and some beautiful passing. Also worth mentioning that Cruyff and Pep belong to similar schools and can link up quite well.
On the other hand, Di Stefano's work rate would be a pain in the ass for the other midfield. I am sure he will add more than Cruyff would to the midfield battle.
Coming to the wings, I am not quite sure how well Burgnich can cope up with a flying Giggs. He was as tough as they come, but I think on the flank he is in Giggsy's territory and might make an error or two. Brehme and Giggs against Figo and Burgnich, it's a tough one but edges towards Brwned's side. While Cruyff and the German would get the better of Matthews and McGrain.
A player like Romario is very difficult to mark, the best way to stop a player like that is to cut out the supply, and with Pep, Redondo and Cruyff, I fail to see how Brwned's midfield and defense can stop every single pass from reaching the Brazilian. Romario is definitely getting on the score sheet.
On the other hand it doesn't matter even if Spencer gets marked out, as Don Alfredo can handle the scoring himself with ease. He is getting on there as well surely.
Holding my vote, this is a very broad opinion that I have on the game, will study a bit more to find something that breaks the deadlock.
I see your point here but with my players I feel this would work. I believe that Redondo - Guardiola - Cruyff would link up fantastic moves.
And when Cruyff goes inside Redondo can always do this
This I have instructions for Essien to help out with, and Essien is a great help to have.
i am not able to see edogen's team. so leaning towards brwned
Fair enough. I actually saw the change midway through writing that post, and didn't know you had Essien in. That certainly makes things a bit more assured.
Although I might say that this tactic looks a bit like smash and grab, not entirely sure how cruyff will look at it. I wouldn't have made that change tbh. Putting Cruyff on the left is good, but it has left too few runners for all the great passers in the team to pick out. Figo can be stopped by Brehme, and Romario alone, although I can see him getting something out of all that service as I said, is a bit risky.
Edogen save your team pic and upload it on tinypic.com or something. You could lose some votes over that.
I'm close to having to toss a coin to decide these two teams. I was leaning towards Brwned before the tactical change from Edogen, but now I'm unsure.
Right, I'm going to see how Di Stéfano does up top. It's only a temporary tactical switch for those who are waiting to see how this plays out, just want to see whether getting rid of the all-time top scorer in the Copa Libertadores works in my favour. Arie Haan to come on and hopefully score a scorcher out of nothing.
He was the right pick for anyone who ever saw him play. Admittedly, probably no more than 2-3 people on the entire board.
You should judge players on how good they were at their peak and whether they will fit in the side/"work". Achievements help gage how good they were, but shouldn't be the beginning and end of it all. e.g. Di Stefano never played in a World Cup, let alone won one, doesn't make him a worse player than Youri Djorkaeff.
I love Guardiola as a player, but agree he was misused in that initial pairing, while now he is running the game shielded by the other two doing the legwork. Same player, completely different impact, all down to tactics.
Spencer's biggest crime was being born Ecuadorean, and refusing to turn his back on them to play for Uruguay in '66. Conversely, Eusebio was from Mozambique, and didn't give a feck, and therein lies the difference in their legendary status. Spencer was every bit as good as Eusebio. Anyone who has seen his Peñarol side play Pelé's Santos, Eusebio's Benfica or Di Stéfano's Real, will tell you he was every bit as good and deadly.
Brwned, you should point out at what scoreline the team changes take place. It's actually quite crucial.
As far as I'm concerned you had the better to begin with because you were winning it in midfield, EDogen's change made it more even and if he was ahead was sure the way forward to try lock up a lead. Your last change is absolutely bonkers IMO but that could also be read as Informed Minority Opinion.
As far as I'm concerned you had the better to begin with because you were winning it in midfield, EDogen's change made it more even and if he was ahead was sure the way forward to try lock up a lead. Your last change is absolutely bonkers IMO but that could also be read as Informed Minority Opinion.
Antohan you're the only one who sees the votes as a genuine scoreline, and therefore the only one who takes the scoreline into account when judging tactics and lineups. I can't be arsed with all that.
It's the scoreline that prompts the subs, and thus provides context for the rationale behind them.
It really is sticking two numbers prior to the revised teamsheet, not too much work really.
The reason EDogen brought in Essien was because Guardiola was getting criticised, not because he wanted to kill off the game and lock up the lead. Likewise the reason I brought on Haan was not to gain more control and to score more goals - as of course the opposite would happen in reality - but because people had no time for Spencer.
I think you are a tad behind in the current midfield battle, Brwned.
People or just Cling Bak, who already voted?
I agree with you it's not right just picking the known names or recent players people will know, major disservice to some great great players out there. But picking them and then shipping them out halfway through the game... Should have stuck to your guns there, particularly when Haan is not exactly an easier sell and you've now lost Di Stéfano in midfield (or your focal point in attack).
I'm not shipping him out, I'm changing things around for a bit to see if that makes a difference either way. No-one other than Cling is mentioning Spencer so I have no way of knowing whether he's working or not. I PM'd Burrow and he said he just went with the players he was more familiar with. Di Stéfano as a striker is what he and many others are more familiar with, regardless of how accurate that is.
No use for Sarosi as of yet?
Might have been an easier sell too considering his WC exploits...
Might have been an easier sell too considering his WC exploits...
I don't know how true that is. I believe most consider him similar to a number 10 in the modern game who has a good goalscoring record.
Don't see him working at all unfortunately, waste of a pick! Can't use him up front because the ones who know him will say it's mental to have either he or Di Stéfano as an out-and-out striker, while I suspect it won't make much difference for the ones who know little of him because when they see Sárosi or Spencer in the lineup they just think "??????".
I'm getting concerned about the same thing regarding Erico. Maybe I should have got Hugo Sanchez as a better known backup just in case...
I still don't understand the trial as there's a long way to go in this game and you can't get Spencer back on after the trial period.
Probably right.
Could Sarosi/de Stefano not work in a similar fashion to the Pele/Rumenigge partnership everyone aside from myself seemed to be really keen on? I'd be less put out by De Stafanos involvement in that role than if it was Pele and your midfield would require less help than a Tardelli Neeskens partnership too. It would also communicate to the average Joe that De Stefano will still get the goals he is renowned for.
I would say so! It just ends up being annoying having to argue for your own player when you know people are trying to be agreeable but they're still looking at him and thinking "ok, so he's good, but I don't know how good nor how he plays and I can't take the word of a biased manager to sway me".
Well then the trial is reversed and the team is back to what it was, at no point have we said anything about strict subs rules! I've switched players on and off the bench in each of the last two drafts. Not me personally but for others.
The fact Hugo Sánchez was knocking about is what bothers me about Cling's comment of desperation - no-one can deny the little Mexican is a top-class goalscorer and he would've teamed up with Di Stéfano to have a frontline or 2 of the top 5 goalscorers in Madrid's history, yet somehow I was desperate at that stage...nope, not at all.
I almost gave my vote to EDogen in that switch. 
I think this is the best setup for you. If anything, the trial one would have taken more votes away than it would have added, as Haan himself isn't a great popular figure.
I think this is the best setup for you. If anything, the trial one would have taken more votes away than it would have added, as Haan himself isn't a great popular figure.
Greaves too...
I would've took Greaves over Sárosi myself but there was no way of squeezing Matthews out of the side for him because a) he's the worse player and b) it'd leave me with playing 352 or an inside forward out wide and that'd just be counter-intuitive. Was disappointed though, I looked at it from every angle to get Greaves in!
True, so fair. But they are getting posted as we speak, while it is fantasy, I've never seen a team sub players back on!!!!