Playing more defensive wasn't the right call. I've picked an attacking team to make sure you're on the back foot. I've got the better team going forward so why wouldn't I focus on my strengths?
All-time Fantasy Draft - antohan v Thisistheone
- Thread starter Brwned
- Start date
Playing more defensive wasn't the right call. I've picked an attacking team to make sure you're on the back foot. I've got the better team going forward so why wouldn't I focus on my strengths?
I see the case for not adapting too much to the rival. It's one of the big decisions to make. In this case I think you've made the wrong one in practice but the right one marketing-wise. But you need to know Garrincha inside out to actually realise how bad it is, and no one here really seems to.
You see TITO? This is much more agreeable banter than having two or three "neutrals" making a shitstorm over two words.
You see TITO? This is much more agreeable banter than having two or three "neutrals" making a shitstorm over two words.
Absolutely love thisistheone's team, though possibly go for Eto'o over Weah. Brwned was considering him back during the draft and I said then that I don't think he's that highly rated, Eto'o is more of a vote winner and would be lethal with that service.
Not seeing much width from antohan, looks a real issue and Garrincha for thisistheone will be the difference here IMO, offering a wide option and stretching the pitch for Maradona to take control of the game.
Also, antohan seemed to argue Pele was wasted as a number 9 so surprised to see him up there and not influencing the game from deep.
Not seeing much width from antohan, looks a real issue and Garrincha for thisistheone will be the difference here IMO, offering a wide option and stretching the pitch for Maradona to take control of the game.
Also, antohan seemed to argue Pele was wasted as a number 9 so surprised to see him up there and not influencing the game from deep.
He was in a team which was bereft of creativity and outnumbered in the centre of the park while having Rummenigge upfront and almost a second striker cutting in (Blokhin).
I have enough buildup to keep him upfront, although I pointed out he could occasionally drop into the hole during build up.
How are you doing anyway? NM was worried about you earlier.
This whole draft has been a balancing act between what I think is right in practise and what will win the marketing side of things. If I'd just played the practicle side of things I'd have been out in round one, no question.
As for the neutrals I'm amazed Aldo hasn't piped up yet
Sadly I have to leave for a couple of hours now so I'll catch you later.
Still got all my subs to make so will look at some possibilities off the bench as we approach the half way stage.
As for the neutrals I'm amazed Aldo hasn't piped up yet
Sadly I have to leave for a couple of hours now so I'll catch you later.
Still got all my subs to make so will look at some possibilities off the bench as we approach the half way stage.
That reminds me, I was going to say pele isn't playing in his best position. Anto's best player is not in his perfect role while my best player, Maradona, is playing exactly where he should be.
And also Theon, as I knew he would, picks up on a great point with the width issue and how Cruyff and Garrincha stretch the game and give Maradona more room. Surprised it's not been picked up as its a classic Manchester United tactic.
Was going to mention something along those lines but Antohan would've started crying!
I don't see why Blokhin, Boniek and Pele wouldn't have worked but Henry and Pele will.
This whole draft has been a balancing act between what I think is right in practise and what will win the marketing side of things. If I'd just played the practicle side of things I'd have been out in round one, no question.
As for the neutrals I'm amazed Aldo hasn't piped up yet
Sadly I have to leave for a couple of hours now so I'll catch you later.
Still got all my subs to make so will look at some possibilities off the bench as we approach the half way stage.
I told you earlier that I won't be involved in this as long as Antohan is answering everything but you didn't seem to believe me for some reason.
This whole draft has been a balancing act between what I think is right in practise and what will win the marketing side of things. If I'd just played the practicle side of things I'd have been out in round one, no question.
As for the neutrals I'm amazed Aldo hasn't piped up yet
Aldo and I have an agreement that we take turns rather than go into overdrive. It's already enough with one of us
It is quite grating when you are not arguing with one but 3-4 different people all banging on about different things.
Aldo and I have an agreement that we take turns rather than go into overdrive. It's already enough with one of us
It is quite grating when you are not arguing with one but 3-4 different people all banging on about different things.
Fair do's I appreciate the sporting gesture lads.
There you go again. Have you made a single comment that has not been directly aimed against me for the last couple of games?
Still sore I pointed out those stupid arrows you had for your 3rd and 4th sweepers to turn them into fullbacks? (very early in the game and clearly advising you it wasn't a good call, hadn't even voted yet).
And no, with Blokhin and Boniek + Rummenigge you would already have enough movement and activity upfront, what there was nowt of was playmaking. NM needed playmaking and Pelé was perfect for that.
I have playmakers, can bring Pelé into it, sure, but I would appreciate his contribution upfront much more. It's a bit like Brwned playing Di Stéfano in midfield or upfront, he had a lot more to contribute to his midfield but there would have been nothing surprising about him being detailed as a centreforward.
Starting to sound like you picked Pele just for his name, even though you didn't desperately need him. Fair enough, I have done similar. Just nice to see you are also vulnerable to the marketing side of the draft. Your teams not quite a smooth as you think it is.
Right, I really am going now!
Right, I really am going now!
Ah, poor you. I only got involved again because you again questioned if I'm neutral or not. Just accept that not everyone is going to agree with all the bullshit that you type. Personally I'm of the opinion that more people would like to point out how annoying(could've been worse) you are in these threads and how much shit you talk, so I'm pretty happy to continue posting in order to represent that group.
To answer your questions, yes I have made comments not directly aimed at you in the last two games (though the majority are because you were the only one making points so thats all I could respond to) and no I'm not upset about you pointing out my stupid arrows (but you clearly are about me pointing out yours).
Ferdinand and Figueroa? Both great defenders but a little too similar.
To answer your questions, yes I have made comments not directly aimed at you in the last two games (though the majority are because you were the only one making points so thats all I could respond to) and no I'm not upset about you pointing out my stupid arrows (but you clearly are about me pointing out yours).
Ferdinand and Figueroa? Both great defenders but a little too similar.
No, I picked Pelé to score goals, which is what I needed.
The man was a beast, scored over 1,000 goals and even when you take out all the ones from friendlies he still has a 1 in 1 record with more than 600 goals in official games, 77 in 92 for the national team. How many forwards have that sort of record? He scored a hat-trick in a WC semi and a brace in a final, aged 17, how is that not gob-smackingly phenomenal?
I've said it before, and it's no secret, that I would have rather played Ronaldo there. Everyone would "get it". Unfortunately KM went into his forward collecting drive and they both ended in an unbalanced team and you didn't pick either. Tough luck.
I certainly didn't pick him as a playmaker either, seeing as the only useful pick I can make from you is Maradona.
That is true about Ferdinand and Figueroa to be fair, good point Fergus.
Two covering defenders of that ilk isn't what you want.
Two covering defenders of that ilk isn't what you want.
No, you keep chipping in agreeing with people on anything that supports TITO, or making his case when someone disagrees, etc. Then suggesting what subs he can make to deal with some people's concerns... It's all a bit one-sided isn't it?
Now you are saying Ferdinand and Figueroa are similar. I suppose you know Ferdinand well, so you clearly have no fecking clue about Figueroa.
But never mind, I won't bother with whatever tripe you will write about a player you probably first heard of on a fantasy draft in the newbies.
Can't be arsed. Shutters.
You guys seriously haven't seen Figueroa, have you?
What have you seen? His WC'74 clip vs. Australia in more of a libero role? The clip vs. Germany below?
I've seen the guy go head first to block a shot, that's the sort of spirited and committed defender he was. Being good on the ball doesn't make you similar to Rio Ferdinand.
Veliz said:
I am pretty sure Fergus watched Figueroa live if I am remembering the same poster correctly, so that doesn't wash antohan.
Lets not rewrite Figueroa as anything other than primarily a covering defender.
Lets not rewrite Figueroa as anything other than primarily a covering defender.
Meltdown!
It's not meltdown, I tried to explain it to you in a civil way early on (see below). Now I'm just calling you a clueless cnut.
Mate, do you seriously think someone who is no more than a covering defender would get all these individual honours? And this is with South American awards starting in 1971, he would have got a fair few while at Peñarol (he was an icon for my childhood team, that's why I surely must have seen him more times than the entire caf put together).
- 6 times Best Centre-half in the Americas (1972-77)
- 4 times Best Centre-Half in the World (1974-77)
- 3 times Best Player FROM the Americas (1974-76)
- 2 times World Player of the Year (1975-76)*
- Best Centre-half at 1974 FIFA World Cup
- 3 Times Best Player in the Uruguayan League
- 2 Times Best Player in the Brazilian League (ahead of Falcao, Zico, Rivelino, etc.)
- Best Foreign Player in the history of Brazilian Football
- Pelé's nonsense 125 Living Legends
- IFFHS Best South American Defender ever
- IFFHS 8th Best South American Player ever
- IFFHS 37th Best World Player ever (5th among defensive players, third among centre-halves)
I'm not home yet, just posting on the phone so hard to give a proper reply till later.
But you know I rate Figueroa, still prefer Passarella though. It's not a question of his qualities as a player at all, it's a fact how good he was and people aren't challenging that. Doesn't change the fact Rio isn't an ideal partner in any respect or that the partnership lacks a clear stopper. NM assigned Passarella the task in his match who is definitely more suited.
But you know I rate Figueroa, still prefer Passarella though. It's not a question of his qualities as a player at all, it's a fact how good he was and people aren't challenging that. Doesn't change the fact Rio isn't an ideal partner in any respect or that the partnership lacks a clear stopper. NM assigned Passarella the task in his match who is definitely more suited.
To be honest, I don't see why a partnership NEEDS to have two different kind of players, but that is just me. 2 good defenders could play together no matter what their qualities IMO.
People didn't agree with me on that though.
People didn't agree with me on that though.
Recap
What is getting lost in all this nonsense:
So, I have the ball, he is not taking it off me, when he does I'm solid, and when he doesn't I score.
What is getting lost in all this nonsense:
- Ferdinand and Figueroa keep Weah in their pocket, comfortably
- Facchetti, along with Nilton Santos, is the best left back ever and more than a match for Garrincha
- Garrincha didn't perform effectively when he wasn't the main man anyway
- Cruyff, Maradona and Charlton (even Weah given the sort of forward he was) are all operating in the same congested central area between Ferdinand & Figueroa and Rijkaard, Beckenbauer and Iniesta.
- If either Cruyff or Breitner drift left, Zanetti is there. Although Breitner also cuts in. He was a right-footed player and always cut in for the long shot. Zanetti is actually tucking in to help with all that central activity.
- That is, I have a solid Back 7, supported by Iniesta's pressing, which can shut TITO out.
- For the attacking transition I have two of the best attacking fullbacks in the draft, Beckenbauer, Iniesta, Laudrup and even Pelé coming deep if needed (Henry stays put then).
- TITO only has Bremner as a credible ball-winner.
- That is, I have a fluid set up and no one getting the ball off me.
- On the left flank I have Henry, Iniesta and occasionally Facchetti giving Irwin all sorts of trouble.
- On the right flank it all adds up to much of a muchness with Laudrup and Zanetti facing Breitner and Cruyff tracking back (as much a chance of a breakthrough than TITO has on either flank though).
- In the box I have Henry and Pelé making short work of Sammer and Cannavaro. Good players, but there's as big a gap in quality there as I also have in my favour in the other box.
So, I have the ball, he is not taking it off me, when he does I'm solid, and when he doesn't I score.
You want players that compliment each other, Vidic/Ferdinand is better than a hypothetical Ferdinand/Ferdinand or Vidic/Vidic partnership. Same with Terry/Carvalho or any other potential set of centre backs.
Best partnership ever. For fecks sake.. Nobody would be able to attack them. Just the death stare would be enough.
Forgot your love for Vidic NM!No worries, I have all day!
Figueroa was better, even Passarella admits as much!
I think there's a mix-up there between defensive partnerships in one game or in a squad over a season. It has become almost a universal truth on here that you need a dedicated stopper when actually you need one over the course of the season so that you are ready for different types of opposition.
The main point with the stopper is when you meet a Drogba or Vieri you need the "no-nonsense" type of defender alongside the more classy/positional one. I agree with that.
What I disagree with is the notion that players are either one or the other and that it is typically defined on the basis of whether they are good on the ball or not.
Theon mentions Passarella as a better stopper than Figueroa and I would have to disagree with that (I would rather Figueroa than Passarella facing Drogba). Figueroa was imperious aerially and strong on the tackle, he just rarely had to display it as he was a great game reader and very positionally sound so there was no need for late flying challenges or anything of that sort.
He was very composed and his trademark trick flicking the ball off the oncoming striker demonstrates it. It was a great way of showing he wasn't nervous, he was in full control and actually "a better footballer than you, you wannabe goalscoring smarty pants".
But make no mistake, he was tough as nails. He had to be to make it at Peñarol and has always acknowledged that's what completed him as a player.
I'v seen many posters saying that they wouldn't neccessarily consider Figueroa as a 'steely' option in a well balanced defensive partnership. Obviously sometimes the quality of players overrides the need for balance (you'de rather Ferdinand/Figueroa rather than Ferdinand/Lucio for example) but it still remains that Figueroa/Ferdinand isn't ideal in terms of complimenting each other.
Agree that it wont be as much of a problem in this game as it could've been in others against different types of striker tough.
Agree that it wont be as much of a problem in this game as it could've been in others against different types of striker tough.
Figueroa, like Baresi, is the sort of centre-half you could pair up with pretty much anyone and they would make it work regardless of who the other chap is, be it Vidic or Ferdinand.
I would've preferred to see a different partner for Figueroa to really get the best out of him.
Yeah I don't think it's the same as facing a hulking centre-forward like Drogba or Nordahl.
So no concerns there given the unparalleled calibre of Figueroa. Although Cannavaro broadly cancels out Henry, there's a greater mismatch between Pele and Thisistheone's centre-halves.Only one vote in it as TITO voted.
Yeah I don't think it's the same as facing a hulking centre-forward like Drogba or Nordahl.
True. Only Bremner really shielding too. Blanc wouldn't improve the defence too much but moving Sammer into midfield alongside Bremner would make the whole thing more solid don't you think. Would mean having to sacrifice someone but he has enough flex to do that, would be a shame to take off Garincha but the whole team would certainly look better as whole with him gone, Alberto at RB, Blanc CB, Sammer shielding the defence, and either Charlton or Luis Enrique where Garrincha is. 'Natural width' would then become an issue however...
It's a tricky one ensuring the happy medium between team balance and vote-winning quality on the park. Thisistheone has packed in a lot of quality in his midfield five and it's a wee bit top-heavy. At the same time, Antohan lacks some natural attacking width and while his full-backs are first rate, ultimately they cannot be at both ends of a flank at the same time. I wonder if Anto has considered a 4-2-3-1 with Iniesta, Pele and Laudrup behind Henry.
TITO is back
As tight as can be right now. Almost time for a change I think...
As tight as can be right now. Almost time for a change I think...
Time for Eto'o?
Think he suits the game more, goalscoring record at Barca is exceptional and with Maradona running things behind, plus the ridiculous service from Cruyff and Garrincha it means he's gonna get chances.
Think he suits the game more, goalscoring record at Barca is exceptional and with Maradona running things behind, plus the ridiculous service from Cruyff and Garrincha it means he's gonna get chances.