sell Rooney, seriously? I'm not even going to bother reading that shit.
I don't blame you. Not when there's a far better quality of shit right here.
ALL issues relating to the bond issue and club finances
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I don't blame you. Not when there's a far better quality of shit right here.
Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion but is it necessary to repeat it on every page throughout the thread using exactly the same words?
By the way, redjazz's post has reminded me. There's some stuff going on in the Rooney thread right now which should be right up your street. I'm sure there's a conspiracy story about how we're lining him up to sell in there for you somewhere.
Ronaldo and Tevez are getting a bit old now. You need some new material. Get to it!
You bought it up and it will always be a major issue, I tend not to start the talk on that issue these days although I will get involved if some one else does, and it will again and again, that story has legs. I have never mentioned selling Rooney, that wont happen unless he gets caught in the Lowry again.
As for new material the Glazers usually supply me with some, I enjoyed last Fridays accounts
You bought it up and it will always be a major issue, I tend not start the talk on that issue these days although I will get involved if some one else does, and it will again and again, that story has legs. I have never mentioned selling Rooney, that wont happen unless he gets caught in the Lowry again.
As for new material the Glazers usually supply me with some, I enjoyed last Fridays accounts
You enjoyed last Friday's accounts, eh, Crerand?
But hang on a sec, you thought the accounts were really poor though, didn't you?
Could it be then, Crerand, that you actually like it when our finances go awry? Why else would you have enjoyed the accounts if you thought them so terrible?
Bet you didn't enjoy the bit when anders said the accounts were actually very good though, eh? You know, the good news that everyone else enjoyed hearing? And the bit where everyone got sick of your ill-informed ramblings and told you to shut up? You enjoy those bits as much as you enjoyed reading the really really bad accounts, did you? Hmmm?
You can't even make a light hearted remark on here any more so I will clarify. I do not enjoy anything bad that happens to harm Manchester United, I am a die hard lifelong season ticket holding supporter.
Crerand Legend said:
So presumeably you're now agreeing with anders and acknowledging that the accounts were actually quite good. Or do you still disagree with anders' (The strongly anti-Glazer professional financial analysist) positive reflection on the accounts, choosing instead to base your opinions on systematically flawed Crerand-logic?
The cancer eating away at your arguments Cider?
Nah, i agree with a lot of what you say, just strongly disagreed with your call to boycott. I appreciate the time and effort that you, GCHQ, Redjazz etc. take to educate those of us less knowledgeable than yourselves, and as i said the other day this thread has inspired me to enroll onto an introductary accountancy undergraduate course at the OU. My arguments are what they are, and i adjust them as a take on board and learn things from the rest of you; if anyone shows me to be wrong about something (as Jazz did earlier today) then i'll appreciate the help and re-think things through. Such is the point of the thread i believe.Anders
Any conflict between FFP regs and the taking of carveouts? I think the first evaluation period begins 2011/2012.
Does anyone ever organise Caf drinks? The main contributors to this thread could have a good session in a pub one evening..... Might get thrown out for constant repetition though....
Yes, dividends and inter company loans both included in "relevant expenses".
I asked UEFA by email and they confirmed.
£95m has to come out by end of this season.
yeah i often think something similar; but then i imagine fredthered getting wind of it and turning up already drunk and angry wielding a crow-bar! Now, i'm a middle-distance runner and weight-trainer myself, i'm a fair sized fella and can handle myself in the odd scrap, but this fred guy by all accounts has some serious bulk behind him, the kind of bulk which if sat on you would mould you to the floor pretty air-tightish; quite honestly, after a pint or two, i really wouldn't fancy that at the same time as being hit on the ankles with a crow-bar and getting meat-pie juice dripped all over my new Adidas. Cheers though and that.That's quite interesting, i wouldn't have guessed that. What is our estimated football related profit (or whatever UEFA are calling what they calculate now) going forward, anders?
Thanks for that. Their pik-holding buys them some time but I was wondering if the FFP regs would treat the carveouts as a 'relevant expense' and put an upper limit on that time.
Do you have any inkling as to what they might do with their pik-holding? You mentioned that they were unhappy with it being made public.
You'd have thought they'd have wanted the 15% news leaked, wouldn't you? Surely something like that which would appease the fans to a degree they'd consider as good P.R.?
Either the noose is tightening or some people are still barking up the wrong tree.
I sometimes get accused of being melodramatic but, by all accounts, this would appear to be the most crucial season in 20 years at Manchester United.
Squad needs investment vs PIK needs to be addressed.
It would appear that both of these things cannot happen in the same season and, logically, contradictions cannot exist.
Personally, what I am seeing here, is one of the highest revenue generating clubs in the world and the margins it is operating to are miniscule.
Call me an eternal optimist but I take this as a good sign.
Yes, we have the debt and yes we possibly have the dividends but even despite these things, our revenue compares favourably to our competitors.
When the FFP Regs kick in fully (i.e. when the phase-in period is over) then the impact Roman or Mansour can have over their respective clubs is virtually eliminated.
It will all become a matter of revenue generation and who can cut themselves the largest slice of the pie and the Glazers do seem to be manouevering us into a situation of high commercial revenues. Prize money and TV revenues are dependent on performance which also assists with the commercial revenues.
The main thrust must surely be to go ahead and strengthen the team in order to give it every possible chance of success during this crucial period. For the Glazers to handicap us going into it would be totally counter to everything they have worked to achieve, particularly over the last few years.
If we can get through this period (the next 2 years) and come out of it in good shape then I think we will be in an extremely strong position compared to our struggling competitors and I am hoping that this is how the Glazers see it and is how they are able to proceed.
Of course, if the PIKs need paying and United is the Glazers only means of doing this then all of this might count for nothing and my faith in the Glazers' ability to produce rabbits has been misplaced.
I think I will say this: If the Glazers take £95million this season, there is no serious squad investment in the summer and the oldies retire then my argument is done.
Aha! An ultimatum!
My prediction is that they'll use the £70m carve-out this season and make a relatively heavy investment in the squad next summer, both these actions seem pretty essential for the Glazers' success going forward; they'll not take the £25m dividend because i just can't see how it's at all necessary.
Well, if the Glazers take £95m and Fergie is left scrabbling around the bargain bucket next summer, there will be no argument anymore.
A little thought occured to me on these lines today about Anders' little bit of news about why the Glazers didn't take the money and it was that perhaps Fergie had given them some kind of ultimatum?
Take that money and I'm off, kind of thing.
I'd be inclined to agree (with the first bit; i've no idea about the second); if they take so much and don't give back then i'd rest my argument and join the mob. Conversely, i wonder how many anti-Glazerites would give up the fight if good squad investment proves forthcoming next summer?
An ultimatum indeed. But just to clarify; is this ultimatum missing an 'and' or a 'then'.
Exactly.
I'd certainly like to see the Glazers cut a bit of slack if they don't take the money and give Fergie whatever he needs to replace whoever needs replacing next summer.
Eh? I thought what I said was pretty clear there.
If the Glazers take £95million this season, AND there is no serious squad investment in the summer AND the oldies retire then my argument is done.
The first AND is a bit superfluous but whatever makes you happy, Rosie.
Nah it was three factors in a list. You only seperate the final two items on a list with 'and', the rest with a comma.
edit.
Actually the way it's worded does make it sound kinda weird, not very poetic
why do you call him Rosie?I dunno what you two fought about in the n00bz, but you both seem reasonable posters.
Kiss now!
tbh i don't give a feck what they take as long as they provide SAF with what he needs to build his team, that's all i care about. They could sign a £billion sponsorship deal tomorrow and keep the lot for all i care, as long as they give SAF what he asks for then i'm happy.
Does that mean we still need another year to settle this argument?
I dunno what you two fought about in the n00bz, but you both seem reasonable posters.
Kiss now!
Dunno. He calls me Rosie on occasion.
I have no idea why, either.
Does that mean we still need another year to settle this argument?
It does seem like this next year will see some definitive answers one way or the other.
I hope you're both aware that that is kind of weird.
I guess the way I posed the question to Anders was a bit loaded. Perhaps the disclosure conflicts with their intentions regarding their pik-holding? We now have the expectation that they will either cancel or use their redemption proceeds to further redeem the PIK. If we hadn't known about their pik holding, the discovery (in subsequent accounts) that a chunk of the pik was missing or that the Glazers were injecting cash into RFJV to help with the PIK burden would be well received. On the other hand, and in light of their reported pik-holding, the discovery that the piks weren't addressed by their own redemption proceeds, would make for poor press.
Does that mean we still need another year to settle this argument?
Well, we could wait until 2017 if you'd prefer?
Nah i think the next twelve months will be a crucial period for both the squad and the club's/Glazers' finances. Next summer's transfer dealings coupled with next year's accounts should give a good picture of what's really going on.
I, for one, am tired of the circular arguments now. I think all the theories have been explored at this point and, the cards Anders is hiding up his sleeve notwithstanding, there's nothing more to see at this moment in time.
Yeah i see what you mean.
I kinda get the impression with the Glazers that a lot of what they do they see as just their own business and why should they be telling anyone else what their plans are?
From their point of view, they've told Gill not to worry about the PIK's, he's told us, so why should they explain themselves any further than that? If we don't believe what they say anyway then what's the point in expanding on it? There's also probably an element of the natural inclination towards wanting to keep business plans secretive of course.
Ah well, I chanced upon some moving images depicting the growing relationship between yourself and Ciderman. I thought: Cider with Rosie.
I'd be weary, Rosie.
No wonder it was lost on me. Cider with Rosie is a book, right? I just had to Google it because I'd never heard of it.
And is that weary or wary?
What cards? Am I missing something? I'll have to pay more attention.
I am surprised that he didn't mention the connect between the FFP Regs and the carveouts before.
'Wary' it is. Sorry. The laurie lee book is regarded as a classic. Fine writer. I'm surprised that you haven't heard of it.
Anders says he knows something but wont tell anyone what it is. It could just be the 15%/20% thing, who knows? Usually on the caf when someone says they know something but wont tell what it is it turns out to be either feck all or something that really wasn't worth the wait and anticipation. If you think this might be exciting i wouldn't get your hopes up; chances are it's shit.
WTF?!
Apart from ciderman, those are all just newbies who turned up half way through the discussion in this thread - including yourself!
No, your lack of acknowledgement that the RCF is basically another financial instrument to accrue debt with, whatever its purpose.
Er, the judge has a tad more power than us and we don't exactly have full access to the Glazer accounts. Hence my statement.
So for you to shout down things because they don't sit well with you is childish, arrogant and ignorant.
Like what? Again, I asked for headlines and you've not provided any examples.
No. When someone says something like "90p of every penny the fans pay for tickets goes straight to pay for the Glazers debts" it is bullshit and deserves to be called out as such.
When someone puts figures into their calculations to show the cost of the debt thus far and those sums have not actually been taken then that is bullshit and deserves to be called out as such.
When someone says that the Glazers will take all the money and leave United in ruins then that is ill-conceived theory and deserves to be called out as such.
The list goes on and on but the people making these assertions are often the ones being ignorant. If putting forward a counter-argument and having the confidence to believe that what you are saying is a better version of the situation is being arrogant, well, guilty as charged.
See above. Please don't try to tell me that every single piece of scaremongering that the anti-Glazers have engaged in has been proven to be correct over the last five years.
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