Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?

I don't think Carrick is getting overrated anywhere, think he has genuinely been the best midfielder in the country this season. He deserves all the praise he gets, think some people have just insisted he's crap for years and don't want to admit how wrong they was at times and others to be fair are more than happy to say they've been wrong.
 
NM said:
I like Carrick but.. No.
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Can Busquets as effective in midfield two, partnered with Anderson or Cleverley?

Whenever Xavi and Iniesta failed to control a game, even on a 50-50% possession, Busquets would have a nightmare on protecting the defence and being counted.
 
Busquets plays in a team which suits his style to a tee and where he doesn't need to do so much defensive work behind 2 of the best midfielders of the generation and wide players tucking in keeping posession. Playing in a 2 man midfield in a more direct and quick is a completely different challenge.
 
Busquets doesn't only benefit from the Spain/Barca system, he takes it to another level.At times people talk about (not aimed at you Cevno just to be clear) him being lucky to play for such teams.Same thing is usually said about Messi
 
kouroux said:
Busquets doesn't only benefit from the Spain/Barca system, he takes it to another level.At times people talk about (not aimed at you Cevno just to be clear) him being lucky to play for such teams.Same thing is usually said about Messi
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I don't watch Busquets regularly, so its pointless for me to enter this discussion. But Carrick did not look one bit out of place against a very good Madrid midfield. In fact, on the basis of both the legs, he was probably the best central midfielder across both the teams. So I don't know about the most talented or the 'better' player. Based on this season or current form, its not hard to believe he is up there with amongst the best central midfielders in the world. Whether he will continue that into next season or the season after is left to be seen.
 
kouroux said:
Busquets doesn't only benefit from the Spain/Barca system, he takes it to another level.At times people talk about (not aimed at you Cevno just to be clear) him being lucky to play for such teams.Same thing is usually said about Messi
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Messi is clearly the main man in a very good team. It's incomparable to being a cog in the wheel plus Messi plays for Argentina too. And anyways don't think that can be used against Messi except in anything but a All time comparison debate.

I'd like Busquets tested outside of his comfort zone. As he is very good on the ball and retaining it and helps Barcelona's passing chains but i am not sure about him defensively being the best tbh when there's lack of protection or ball retention.

Edit - Anyway, don't wanna turn this debate about Busquets, but at the level Carrick is playing this season it's very close between the 2 right now atleast though Busquets might take it based on 3/4 seasons in a row comfortably.
 
Cevno said:
Messi is clearly the main man in a very good team. It's incomparable to being a cog in the wheel plus Messi plays for Argentina too. And anyways don't think that can be used against Messi except in anything but a All time comparison debate.

I'd like Busquets tested outside of his comfort zone. As he is very good on the ball and retaining it and helps Barcelona's passing chains but i am not sure about him defensively being the best tbh when there's lack of protection or ball retention.

Edit - Anyway, don't wanna turn this debate about Busquets, but at the level Carrick is playing this season it's very close between the 2. Though it's tough to compare in different systems.
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I agree that this season it's so close between the two that even Carrick may have been better than him.It just takes more than one season for me to make complete assessment for me, my opinion is what it is though...
Carrick has been amazing and consistent this season, our player of the season without a doubt
 
Well, taking account the last 3-4 seasons, I agree that Busquets is still the better player. He has done it on club and international levels. Although I haven't seen him run the midfield like Carrick this season, while still effectively screening the defence. But, a bit different in responsibility between the two.
 
Carrick got completely shat on both times we've played Barca. He's got the turning circle of an oil tanker, the pace of one too.

You press Carrick and he panics and cocks up. Give him time and space and he'll be brilliant.

Busquets is a much much better player than Carrick 99% of non-united fans would laugh in your face for even suggesting he's anywhere near as good as Biscuits (although he is much less of a cnut).
 
Great game from him. Easily controlled the first half and looked a completely different class in the first half. Easy MOTM for me
 
IrishLegend said:
Carrick got completely shat on both times we've played Barca. He's got the turning circle of an oil tanker, the pace of one too.

You press Carrick and he panics and cocks up. Give him time and space and he'll be brilliant.

Busquets is a much much better player than Carrick 99% of non-united fans would laugh in your face for even suggesting he's anywhere near as good as Biscuits (although he is much less of a cnut).
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Carrick has been much better than that this season, tbf. He's upped his game this season a lot compared to even last season. It's been his best season at United comfortably for me.

And anyway would like Busquets playing with Giggs in a 2 man midfield against Carrick behind Xavi and Iniesta at their peaks and dominating the game.

Busquets is better on the ball for sure as he can wriggle past players too which Carrick struggles with, but Carrick is better without it in terms of tracking his man and screening the defence.
 
Carrick has been sensational this season. Posts that crap on him are misguided at best, moronic at worst.
 
IrishLegend said:
Carrick got completely shat on both times we've played Barca. He's got the turning circle of an oil tanker, the pace of one too.

You press Carrick and he panics and cocks up. Give him time and space and he'll be brilliant.

Busquets is a much much better player than Carrick 99% of non-united fans would laugh in your face for even suggesting he's anywhere near as good as Biscuits (although he is much less of a cnut).
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The United team as a whole struggled against pressing teams last season, and particularly with high tempo pressing teams. The worst has been when Carrick has been partnered with the aged Scholes in particular. Carrick needs an easy outlet to pass his way out against pressing teams, and some of the blame and responsibility for not providing this outlet has also to be directed towards his teammates as much as him.

Although Busquets possess more pace and is more of a physical player he does not have the long passing range of Carrick. I'd say Real's Alonso is the only player who can be compared with Carrick in playing styles.

PS: Most teams and players have struggled against Barcelona over last few years.
 
If we Give carrick a half decent partner, he'll look even better. I'm sure he can at least reach the level of busquets if he's played alongside the likes of xavi and iniesta.
 
Carrick has played with an ageing Scholes, Giggs, and an inconsistent Anderson over the last few years. It's unfair to draw comparisons with Busquests when he's had the luxury of playing alongside some of the best midfielders of this generation. I'm not taking away anything from Busquets, but comparisons are not fair or valid, and it's impossible to say what Busquets would achieve given the same players and system.
 
Sixpence said:
If we had 2 of him we'd be nigh on unbeatable.
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I don't agree. I think Fletcher has been the closest we've come to an out and out ball winner. I really want to see someone genuinely world class at dominating the defensive portion of midfield and recycling the ball for him to make medium-long range passes. I think it would be a sight to behold.

Carrick and Carrick would be to samey I reckon. Maybe like Rio and Rio, Vidic and Vidic. Although Anderson didn't really have the greatest of games today I thought it was his foot on the ball and his availability in front of Carrick that really allowed him to shine. More genuine foot on the ball opening play up playmaking in front of him as opposed to Cleverley's pass and move and Scholes playmaking behind him and 'must pass to scholes' mentality.
 
What might have helped Carrick's form this season in particular is we're less predictable. In the past passing out to wingers and letting them be the creative force was our default mode of attack. This seasons issues with wingers, and with RvP, Kagawa's inclusion in the squad we've tended to play more through the middle as the season has progressed.
 
Sultan said:
What might have helped Carrick's form this season in particular is we're less predictable. In the past passing out to wingers and letting them be the creative force was our default mode of attack. This seasons issues with wingers, and with RvP, Kagawa's inclusion in the squad we've tended to play more through the middle as the season has progressed.
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This is it. He may not directly assist a shit load of goals like Pirlo for example, but he's constantly looking for that player in the hole rather than the easy outlet on the wing.

I also disagree (on the evidence of this season) that he panics under pressure (as said a few posts up). Sure he's forced into a few more wayward passes, but which big game has he struggled in? The worst he's played since August/September was against Southampton. Other than that he's always putting in top performances.
 
Carrick is the best midfielder in the prem this season, without a doubt. It's not just the quality of his performances, but also that he seems to be able to play almost every game. With De Gea, Vidic and Carrick in the side and in form, things look fairly secure.
 
Do the idiots who persist on dismissing Busquets' achievements/performances on the basis that he 'plays for Barcelona' not realise that Michael Carrick also plays for the best team in the country?

Anyway, Carrick is playing simply sensationally at present, loving his performances at the moment, and he seems to finally believe he is the shit. The Marseilles Roulette yesterday was great to watch for a number of reasons.

If Vidic leaves the club this summer I'd like to see him made captain of the team personally.
 
IrishLegend said:
Carrick got completely shat on both times we've played Barca. He's got the turning circle of an oil tanker, the pace of one too.

You press Carrick and he panics and cocks up. Give him time and space and he'll be brilliant.

Busquets is a much much better player than Carrick 99% of non-united fans would laugh in your face for even suggesting he's anywhere near as good as Biscuits (although he is much less of a cnut).
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Carrick was outnumbered and even if he had a blinder it would not have changed the game much.

Fergie and the staff were overly ambitious and got the tactics wrong in both games.
 
Sultan said:
He's too laid back, and very quiet to be a captain.
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He's a leader on the pitch. This theory that you must be Lee Cattermole to be a captain is a bit mythical in my view. Ryan Giggs is similar in his approach on the pitch I'd say.

Besides, I think that the extra spotlight could cause Carrick to continue taking the initiative and impose himself on games.
 
Busquets is the ultimate defensive midfielder and a joy to watch. Won everything at 23 which is crazy. The way Carrick played all season reminded me very much of him.
 
Jiggs'Hamstring said:
It may be the cans talking, but I'd be delighted to see Carrick made captain.
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I'm not sure if the captaincy would suit him to be honest. He is the type of player that just gets on with things quietly and doesn't strike me as vocal enough to get the rest of the team to dig deep and pull themselves out of a hole.
 
Hellboy said:
Busquets is the ultimate defensive midfielder and a joy to watch. Won everything at 23 which is crazy. The way Carrick played all season reminded me very much of him.
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This says it, for me. I've watched loads of Barca this season and to be honest there's not been that much between Carrick and Busquets since November. But Busquets has been at that level for years, whereas this is comfortably Carrick's best season for United.

The argument that because non-United fans don't rate Carrick he's not good is shite. They don't watch him much, they're heavily influenced by the substandard stuff he produces for England, and they won't have had time to register how much better he's been this season than ever before. Also it's become one of those anti-United opinions that gets entrenched and has very little to do with the actual truth.

The argument about Busquets benefiting from being at Barca is perfectly valid. Yes, he contributes to their excellence and style of play. But there's simply no way of arguing that Carrick wouldn't have it easier and look better playing behind Xavi and Iniesta in a regular side that plays the same brand of passing football in every game and wins comfortably most of the time, than alongside Giggs or Anderson in United's chop-and-change midfield in a team still searching for a consistent identity (and starting line-up).
 
I don't think you can compare Busquets and Carrick. People say Carrick (and the rest) rode on Ronaldos brilliance from 06-09. Well Busquets plays behind 3 of the top 5 in the world.

I don't see why people are debating who's better than the other. One has been holding the midfield for his club almost single-handedly since Fletcher suffered from his problems, the other was brought into an already outstanding midfield and arguably has an easier ride every week.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Carrick was outnumbered and even if he had a blinder it would not have changed the game much.

Fergie and the staff were overly ambitious and got the tactics wrong in both games.
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I may be alone in thinking this but I felt we should have done better in 09. We let ourselves down that night, we should have been at least 1-0 up inside the first 15 minutes and when they scored we seemed to retreat back into our shell. In 2011 we were soundly beaten no doubt.
 
I'm a big fan of Busquets and Carrick, and have always been bewildered by the unanimous agreement that the former is 'clearly' the superior player. They are about the same to my eyes; Busquets has a bit more aggression and technique, but other than that there's nothing in it.

This is actually a massive compliment for Busquets considering how young he is. People saying that Busquets benefits from playing for Barca are correct, but for the wrong reasons. The system Barca play definitely benefits whoever is playing as the defensive midfielder: because they pack the middle, all he really has to be doing is screening the defence, and covering for when the fullbacks inevitably decide to take a trip up the wing. But obviously, Busquets can do far more than that.

The problems with our system are well-documented so I won't go into them here, but there is a lot more [unrealistic] expectation placed on Carrick because of the way we play. He sometimes fails to meet that standard, naturally.
 
Wilted again today. Must be gassed.

Still annoys me when we leave him all alone trying to chase the game. It's exactly why we then get overrun on the counter and cough up chances.

edit: Not a hater post, he was good in the first half.
 
Well. He should've been rested against fecking Reading at home game.
 
Well he clearly tired but think we were asking for trouble when we put Giggs there, he offered very little protection and with chelseas main attackers either starting or drifting in so we were always going to get overrun. Carrick was controlling the game well up to half time but with the attack being poor on our part once they scored it was always going to be tough.
 
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