Exactly. If our only option this summer for midfield was getting rid of Carrick and bringing in one player I'd love to see a 10 man list, which has been my point this whole time.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
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Exactly. If our only option this summer for midfield was getting rid of Carrick and bringing in one player I'd love to see a 10 man list, which has been my point this whole time.
I can only judge from the times I have seen him play. I don't know, or assume how good he would be if he played in a team encouraged to pass both short and long. I understand it's a matter of opinion, but if I had a choice of Carrick and Busquets playing in this present United team I'd go for the former. Maybe they'd compliment each well, not that I'd want that drama queen to ever sign for United.
An extremely pointless point, because nobody on this forum has suggested we do so.
Still, if you told me "we can get Iniesta or Schweinstiger, but we have to swap Carrick for them", I'd take it, happily.
How is it pointless? No one has suggested it but the idea of swapping players is just a way of comparing them. My whole reasoning why he is top bracket is because he is among the very best at the role he plays for us.
Schweinstiger is one of the very few players I'd swap with Carrick, as good as Iniesta is he still needs someone like Carrick beside him.
Yes but there are players who could come in and do other roles better which would compensate.
There aren't many players in world football who can do the sort of roles Hernandez does, it doesn't mean we wouldn't swap him for a number of better players.
I think he's very average with the ball outside the penalty area. Plenty viable options if Hernandez was to be sold.
Hernandez's role is much more specified than Carricks.
The straight swap scenario applied to Hernandez is a no brainer where with Carrick you'd struggle to name 10.
I'm not naming them, I have before, and people using highlight one and go "feck u nub, ** clueless lol!". Never works out.
How am I measuring better? By the fact that they are better footballers, how the feck else? Their beards? Their hair length? The campness of their running?
You're dodging the questions. Who are these 10 players and what makes them 'better footballers' than Carrick?
There are midfielders who get more assists or score more goals than Carrick, but his unique skill set is what makes him so valuable. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Javi Martinez, Alonso and Busquets who offer a similar set of abilities playing at the top level. Whether you think these players are better than Carrick or not is immaterial at this point; that's three players who are perhaps better than Carrick in his position.
Lets also remember that using the blanket term 'midfielder' is really unhelpful because it covers a category of players that range from Mascherano to Ozil. Is Carrick one of the best in the world for his particular type of midfielder? I'd say yes.
I think you should also notice in the list above all those three players are nearly indispensable parts of the three best teams in the world. Carrick is the same, he is the most important player in one of the best teams in the world. That simply not possible unless you are a top class midfielder.
What is this unique skillset? A midfielder who can defend and pass? It's not that rare. Most teams have them. It's Unique for us because we have no depth in that department.
Yes most teams have a player like that, in fact most teams need a player like that to function, the point is Carrick is among the top bracket of players who occupy that position.
I think that judging a player's quality by how many players there are in his position who are better than him is slightly misleading. Just because there are only three players in the world better than a player doesn't mean they're not a few levels better than him.
I'd say Carrick is a very good player. Players like Busquets, Alonso, and sweinsteiger are a level better than him. Then there are players like Xavi and Iniesta who are a level better than them. Next is the Ronaldo level of player. Finally you have the Messi/Maradonna/Pele level. The fact that they play in different positions and have different styles is kinda irrelevant, you just judge players on what you judge their actual level of quality to be.
There was some poster here who came up with a tier system that explained it better than I can, can't remember who though.
I'd say Carrick is a very good player. Players like Busquets, Alonso, and sweinsteiger are a level better than him. Then there are players like Xavi and Iniesta who are a level better than them. Next is the Ronaldo level of player. Finally you have the Messi/Maradonna/Pele level. The fact that they play in different positions and have different styles is kinda irrelevant, you just judge players on what you judge their actual level of quality to be.
There was some poster here who came up with a tier system that explained it better than I can, can't remember who though.
It is if the rest of your midfield is average as feck.
I'm not arguing that Carrick is one of the best for his very specific type, but he's not one of the best midfielders in the world, quite clearly.
The fact that people are claiming he's better than Alonso and Busquets is enough to tell you why I won't name 10, cause it's pointless. I name them, people say "naw he's better than x or y", "no he's not", "is too" etc etc. Yawn.
Well he's not IMO and will never be. For one, even in comparison to his supposed specific "type" (which means eliminating most of the best ones anyway) he's simply not got the talent to match the best.
I named three that are better, so meet me halfway. There's no point, for example, comparing Carrick to Lampard because they serve wildly different functions in a team. Lampard scores more goals, but Carrick is far better defensively and dictates the tempo because he has a far wider range of passing and is more efficient with the ball.
You're making a claim, and then refusing to back it up with any reasoning or evidence, so maybe this discussion is pointless?
I would think Gerrard would be better in the "Carrick role".
gerrard doesn't have the patience or intelligence to play effectively there.
Sir Alex would be his manager.
I'd say that Gerrard could have been better in the 'Carrick role'. He has far more technical ability, obviously. But unfortunately he does not possess the more mental qualities required to play there.
From a young age I always thought Gerrard would develop into that player.. Hard tackler and a great ball player... but like you said doesn't really have that mental strength to stick it out, would make his career last longer though.
sir alex can't turn rat munchers into Michelin rated chefs.....otherwise our current one wouldn't be so damn inconsistent.
Don't know if anyone else saw this article but I enjoyed it.
http://www.thebusbybabe.com/2013/3/...why-the-chelsea-game-was-not-so-bad-after-all
I think the biggest point i took away from it is that Carrick has been basically operating alone for far too long.
What I mean is think of the other excellent squads in Europe, Barca, real, Bayern... now think of their central midfield players...
Javi Martinez and Schweisteiger
Xavi and Busquets
Alonso and Kheidira
Can you imagine Carrick paired with another supremely gifted CM? I mean last time he had on in 2008 we only did the double.
I mean I can not imagine losing Carrick to injury I feel he is that important to us in a big game.
But then i think how awesome it would be if we had one other colossus next to him.
http://www.thebusbybabe.com/2013/3/...why-the-chelsea-game-was-not-so-bad-after-all
I think the biggest point i took away from it is that Carrick has been basically operating alone for far too long.
What I mean is think of the other excellent squads in Europe, Barca, real, Bayern... now think of their central midfield players...
Javi Martinez and Schweisteiger
Xavi and Busquets
Alonso and Kheidira
Can you imagine Carrick paired with another supremely gifted CM? I mean last time he had on in 2008 we only did the double.
I mean I can not imagine losing Carrick to injury I feel he is that important to us in a big game.
But then i think how awesome it would be if we had one other colossus next to him.
Id like to see how Kagawa would do next to him
We're so shit without him.
Love the beard.
One of my main things with Carrick, during his time here he has rarely had a partner in their prime or near their prime since his first two seasons with scholes, to build an understanding with or to share he midfield burden with. Nobody is always on their game but if he doesn't perform then usually there's no one else to pick up, and that's always hard.
Was reading a couple of articles about Joe Cole and his unfulfilled promise, and I didn't realise he and Carrick were in the same youth team at West Ham. Anyway, came across this video of our man running the show in the FA Youth Cup final at 18. I always love seeing footage of our top players as youngsters and I think it helps put expectations of our current youth stars into perspective. Also note Kirkland in goal for Coventry - I remember people raving about him when he broke through for them in the early 00s. Gary McSheffrey there too. Link below for those interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi75EQ8OC5I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi75EQ8OC5I
Nice.
Cheers, that was fun (despite the sound being an hour out of sync). Why did we wait so long to buy him?
Zinedine Carrick
He's just oozes class. Where are his doubters now?
Absolute rock today. Fantastic game.
Defensively, with ball at feet, in the pass and on the intercept. Nearly 10/10 performance.
A roulette to boot class!
Defensively, with ball at feet, in the pass and on the intercept. Nearly 10/10 performance.
A roulette to boot
class!That Maradona turn when surrounded by people was amazing 
Can't wait for Beautifully Red...
Did he give the ball away at all today? Picking out forward passes all day long.
Has there been a better midfielder in England this season?
He's so relaxed in games like this. Oozed class and it was unfortunate the wingers couldn't supplement the game with some class on their part.
Keep it up for Monday!
Keep it up for Monday!
What a turn that was.. sublime.
They will still find a way to criticise him....
"not physically imposing enough"
"doesn't take the game by the scruff of the neck etc.."
Well clearly he is, and clearly he has been doing. Showed strength, timing and technique in abundance today. Makes everything look easy.
Our player of the season, in my opinion. He's putting in an 8 out of 10 every week.
He's getting better with age. He's 31 but I think he will play on for many years yet. Always feel safe when he is on the pitch, he's just exceptional.
Majestic and should clean up at the end of season awards.
Majestic and should clean up at the end of season awards.