Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?

I'm always right said:
Wrong.

The metro headline today:
Click to expand...

A lot of people will say rightly or wrongly that any player should be honoured to be selected in a squad to represent their country, and no matter who they are should not be in any position to make demands.

This goes for Carrick, Robinson, Foster, Carragher etc…
 
Ash_G said:
Yeah there's an argument for that but tbh I'm more frustrated that after years of constantly failing due to a lack of players able to keep and use possession we still leave out the one quality player we have who can do that, not to mention are looking to play Gerrard in a deeper role despite nearly all his domestic managers and his england career so far suggesting he is a liability there and he should be played higher up the pitch with 2 others behind him.
Click to expand...

This.

I'm frustrated after years watching England play awful football and showing a complete inability to keep possession of the football, whilst our best possession midfielder gets overlooked time & time again.

I can't imagine what it feels like for the man himself.
 
Randall Flagg said:
A lot of people will say rightly or wrongly that any player should be honoured to be selected in a squad to represent their country, and no matter who they are should not be in any position to make demands.

This goes for Carrick, Robinson, Foster, Carragher etc…
Click to expand...

Do you play football yourself Randall?

For me, I had a couple of clubs in the conference where I couldn't get into the team despite the results or the fact that I was certain I was better than the 2 players playing ahead of me. I lasted about 6 months at each. I was honestly nearly in tears at times as I got overlooked time and time again whilst the results remained poor.

The idea that a footballer should be "honored" to sit on a bench and play cheerleader for 10 years is ludicrous. Fine if the team is playing well, not fine if the team has been awful for most of that and the same players are getting picked time and time again.
 
Randall Flagg said:
A lot of people will say rightly or wrongly that any player should be honoured to be selected in a squad to represent their country, and no matter who they are should not be in any position to make demands.

This goes for Carrick, Robinson, Foster, Carragher etc…
Click to expand...

This. In my personal opinion, Carrick should be the first midfielder on the list, but he put himself in this predicament. With the injuries to Barry and Lampard he would have been in the first team.
 
Can't be sure but I think Carrick's stance is more about being a squad player by default. I don't think he's ever been given a proper chance to get a spot in the team, he's had games where he's played well then not been involved. Or if we have had a poor game he's not involved even if he didn't personally do anything wrong. At least that's always been my impression. Saying he wants to be an automatic starter is one thing and would be wrong but I think it's more about having a chance to actually play. He's never really had that, nor been given the same chances as others imo.
 
AuJ2iNHCAAAgzlL.png:large
 
I'm always right said:
Do you play football yourself Randall?

For me, I had a few clubs in the conference where I couldn't get into the team despite the results or the fact that I was certain I was better than the 2 players playing ahead of me. I lasted about 6 months at each. I was honestly nearly in tears at times as I got overlooked time and time again.

The idea that a footballer should be "honored" to sit on a bench and play cheerleader for 10 years is ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Yes I play football in my back garden from time to time

For a club though I imagine it is different. International football is seen more as an award and an honour to be selected.

Not so much anymore, but I am certain many players do see it like that.

Also as good as Carrick is. I dont think he is good enough to make such demands for England.

Randall out.
 
Randall Flagg said:
For a club though I imagine it is different. International football is seen more as an award and an honour to be selected.
Click to expand...

It's no award. If you play for United you already play for a better team and with better players than England. 40 years ago it may have been an award.

Club, country, whatever football team it is, I can understand totally understand Carrick's upset/frustration. Why didn't he get a chance after Barry's shocking shocking World Cup? Why was Barry still starting? England were shite, Barry was shite.... time for a chance for Michael Carrick, feck no.

It's a complete joke and I don't think you can blame Carrick for one second.
 
I'm always right said:
It's no award. If you play for United you already play for a better team and with better players than England. 40 years ago it may have been an award.

Club, country, whatever football team it is, I can understand totally understand Carrick's upset/frustration. Why didn't he get a chance after Barry's shocking shocking World Cup? Why was Barry still starting? England were shite, Barry was shite.... time for a chance for Michael Carrick, feck no.

It's a complete joke and I don't think you can blame Carrick for one second.
Click to expand...

True, besides he said he will make himself available in case of emergency, well this is an emergency, they should pick him.
 
KM said:
True, besides he said he will make himself available in case of emergency, well this is an emergency, they should pick him.
Click to expand...

People look at things so bizzarly from the outside, as if they have no understanding of human emotion.

Remember Gazza when he got left out by Hoddle, he was in bits. You don't think Rio or Richards possibly shed a tear or 2 when they were left out of the squad.

You don't think Carrick got excited in the last WC when England were shite against USA, "now's my chance", but then we play Algeria and an unfit Barry comes in instead, and guess what? we're shite again.

"Surely now" thinks Carrick. But no, England scrape a 1-0 win vs. Slovenia and Carrick still hasn't had a single minute.

Then the German game happens and THAT performance from Barry. After the WC the Euro qualifiers start, does Carrick get a chance? feck NO, it's Barry again.

And you wonder why the feck he doesn't fancy that anymore, I can't even imagine the devastation he's gone through with England, he's probably questioned his own ability so many times because of them.
 
I'm always right said:
It's no award. If you play for United you already play for a better team and with better players than England. 40 years ago it may have been an award.

Club, country, whatever football team it is, I can understand totally understand Carrick's upset/frustration. Why didn't he get a chance after Barry's shocking shocking World Cup? Why was Barry still starting? England were shite, Barry was shite.... time for a chance for Michael Carrick, feck no.

It's a complete joke and I don't think you can blame Carrick for one second.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Dont blame Carrick 1 bit myself. After his performances the past couple of seasons, its a travesty he wasnt given a look in.
 
I'm always right said:
People look at things so bizzarly from the outside, as if they have no understanding of human emotion.

Remember Gazza when he got left out by Hoddle, he was in bits. You don't think Rio or Richards possibly shed a tear or 2 when they were left out of the squad.

You don't think Carrick got excited in the last WC when England were shite against USA, "now's my chance", but then we play Algeria and an unfit Barry comes in instead, and guess what? we're shite again.

"Surely now" thinks Carrick. But no, England scrape a 1-0 win vs. Slovenia and Carrick still hasn't had a single minute.

Then the German game happens and THAT performance from Barry. After the WC the Euro qualifiers start, does Carrick get a chance? feck NO, it's Barry again.

And you wonder why the feck he doesn't fancy that anymore, I can't even imagine the devastation he's gone through with England, he's probably questioned his own ability so many times because of them.
Click to expand...

You make a good point.

I wonder if the way he is continually snubbed by England is a factor in the fragile confidence that's occasionally affected his form for United?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You make a good point.

I wonder if the way he is continually snubbed by England is a factor in the fragile confidence that's occasionally affected his form for United?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised at all Pogue. I know how I feel personally when I'm left out of an underperforming team for "lesser" players, it's soul destroying and has seriously affected my confidence for a while.
 
People are making out like Carrick demanding a starting spot. It's more likely he asked not to be taken if was just going to be an unused sub for another 4-6 games on top of the 30+ previous experiences he has of that delightful role. Carrick went to England's last two major tournaments, and played in exactly one game, and in that one game he was man of the match. feck England.
 
adexkola said:
Reading that post by Guybrush reminds me of Tevez in a way.
Click to expand...

You think? In his final season Tevez started 34 games (18 in the league). He had plenty of chances to convince Fergie to stick with him but only took his thumb out his arse in the closing weeks of the season, when he was in the shop window.

How many chances has Carrick got to show what he can do for England over the last few years?
 
Chabon said:
People are making out like Carrick demanding a starting spot. It's more likely he asked not to be taken if was just going to be an unused sub for another 4-6 games on top of the 30+ previous experiences he has of that delightful role. Carrick went to England's last two major tournaments, and played in exactly one game, and in that one game he was man of the match. feck England.
Click to expand...

Yup, this game:

 
Pogue Mahone said:
You think? In his final season Tevez started 34 games (18 in the league). He had plenty of chances to convince Fergie to stick with him but only took his thumb out his arse in the closing weeks of the season, when he was in the shop window.

How many chances has Carrick got to show what he can do for England over the last few years?
Click to expand...

Still feel he was very good in the early parts of the season (didn't you make a thread on that back then? :smirk:), but he was unfairly benched for a new signing, which may have shattered his confidence. Not saying both scenarios are that similar though.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
How many chances has Carrick got to show what he can do for England over the last few years?
Click to expand...

Since Capello took over Carrick has started four games, been subbed on in four others, and been an unused sub 11 times. A grand total of one of those appearances came in a competitive match, the dead rubber against Ukraine. Capello managed England in 22 competitive internationals, and effectively didn't try Carrick in any of them.

edit: Just to really drive this home, Carrick hasn't played for England in over two years, and hasn't even been in a matchday squad for 18 months. Capello froze him out.
 
England is probably the only team where an integral part of a title challengers won't even get a look in.
 
I'm looking at the ridiculous abuse he's getting around the internet and giving serious consideration to going on some massive white knighting spree.
 
Honestly, it's beyond stupid that he's not picked now. One thing if you think you already got 4 experienced player (even if their quality is debatable), but taking a defender and a inexperienced youngster with shit form ahead of him? That's a new low.

What is it about Carrick that England manager can see that makes him not worthy anyway? I cant believe all those experienced, well respected coaches really think that there isn't a place for Carrick in the England squad. For all their fawning over Spain for their ability to keep the ball, and yet they failed to recognize the best English player that can offer that
 
It's all bollocks to me. The honour is in representing your country, not being sat on the bench tournament after tournament without being picked.

It reminds me a bit of the Carragher situation a few years ago. He had sat on the bench for 10 years, ready to play his part, but was constantly overlooked, and even when he featured it was usually outside of his best position.

The final straw for him was when we had a considerable injury crisis in defence, so he must have thought 'here we go, my patience and dedication is going to be rewarded and im going to get my chance'. Instead unproven Micah Richards was given the nod and Carra missed out yet again.

Who would keep putting themselves through that time and again, when in reality you are not being picked because the managers just don't rate you enough to select you?

Carrick is in the same boat, always available, never moaning, yet even when injuries open the door, some youngster with no experience gets the nod ahead of you. Must be very demoralising and frustrating, and it is no surprise to me that players like Carrick and Carragher before him, reach the stage where they think what's the point, feck it, im going to rest, spend some time with my family and make sure im fresh and ready for my club, who do actually rate what i can offer and have a serious interest in actually playing me.
 
Listening to the pundits on that video is ridiculous. 'Why has it taken so long for him to play?' "He was terrific, kept the ball"..this was in fecking 2006! Carrick is just the forgotten man, and even though what he did exactly what he was doing in that match against Ecuador, all year for United, they probably didn't even fecking notice, or care, all it would take is for him to do it for England and they'll be over him again..until he's left out of the next match, or not even given the opportunity. So glad I'm not English, or have to support that national team. the football culture is a joke
 
Chabon said:
Since Capello took over Carrick has started four games, been subbed on in four others, and been an unused sub 11 times. A grand total of one of those appearances came in a competitive match, the dead rubber against Ukraine. Capello managed England in 22 competitive internationals, and effectively didn't try Carrick in any of them.

edit: Just to really drive this home, Carrick hasn't played for England in over two years, and hasn't even been in a matchday squad for 18 months. Capello froze him out.
Click to expand...

And people have the nerve to say that Carrick's never "done it" for England therefore there's no reason to call him up...
 
apotheosis said:
It's all bollocks to me. The honour is in representing your country, not being sat on the bench tournament after tournament without being picked.

It reminds me a bit of the Carragher situation a few years ago. He had sat on the bench for 10 years, ready to play his part, but was constantly overlooked, and even when he featured it was usually outside of his best position.

The final straw for him was when we had a considerable injury crisis in defence, so he must have thought 'here we go, my patience and dedication is going to be rewarded and im going to get my chance'. Instead unproven Micah Richards was given the nod and Carra missed out yet again.

Who would keep putting themselves through that time and again, when in reality you are not being picked because the managers just don't rate you enough to select you?

Carrick is in the same boat, always available, never moaning, yet even when injuries open the door, some youngster with no experience gets the nod ahead of you. Must be very demoralising and frustrating, and it is no surprise to me that players like Carrick and Carragher before him, reach the stage where they think what's the point, feck it, im going to rest, spend some time with my family and make sure im fresh and ready for my club, who do actually rate what i can offer and have a serious interest in actually playing me.
Click to expand...

I agree with that but I'd also add that Carragher was unlucky: during his best years England had some brilliant centre-backs (Adams, Campbell, Ferdinand). Carrick is overlooked in favour of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker.
 
Carrick's been treated poorly by England, like Scholes, Rio, and others. I don't blame him at all for not wanting to go and sit on the bench when he's clearly a better option. Scholes was played on the left because the England set-up is run by morons. It's ridiculous to ask him to go train for a month to be ignored for inferior players.
 
Siorac said:
I agree with that but I'd also add that Carragher was unlucky: during his best years England had some brilliant centre-backs (Adams, Campbell, Ferdinand). Carrick is overlooked in favour of Gareth Barry and Scott Parker.
Click to expand...

Has everyone forgotten the horrible rut of form Carrick was in for a while before this season?
 
adexkola said:
Has everyone forgotten the horrible rut of form Carrick was in for a while before this season?
Click to expand...

He wasn't as bad as everyone makes him out to be - he had a below par 2009-10 campaign but even then he was decent compared to England's other options, just below the high standards set by Manchester United. He's been in stellar form for almost a good two seasons now.
 
Sir Matt said:
Carrick's been treated poorly by England, like Scholes, Rio, and others. I don't blame him at all for not wanting to go and sit on the bench when he's clearly a better option. Scholes was played on the left because the England set-up is run by morons. It's ridiculous to ask him to go train for a month to be ignored for inferior players.
Click to expand...

Exactly. People saying he should just be honored to be there have obviously never had to sit on the bench while inferior players are on the pitch over you and clearly underperforming. It's not a fun experience at all.
 
adexkola said:
Has everyone forgotten the horrible rut of form Carrick was in for a while before this season?
Click to expand...

You mean like last season when he was our best player in a Champions League tournament in which we came second?
 
adexkola said:
Has everyone forgotten the horrible rut of form Carrick was in for a while before this season?
Click to expand...

He was in poor form through much of 09/10 therefore it's justified that he never got a look-in before or since?

Erm, okay. Meanwhile, England could count on the ever-so-majestic Gareth Barry and the permanently in-form Scott Parker. They have what, a total of 10 Champions League games between them?

But that kind of experience is obviously worthless at international level, especially if you once had a patch of really poor form during your career.
 
adexkola said:
Has everyone forgotten the horrible rut of form Carrick was in for a while before this season?
Click to expand...

That's a fair point that has been missed out. It's understandable that he was frustrated after the 2010 World Cup, but the fact was that back then he had no divine right at all to be playing in the England team.

It's only really now to be honest that he can really feel hard done by with not getting selected for the England squad.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...on-in-place-of-the-injured-Frank-Lampard.html


The moment Lampard pulled up in training at London Colney, running into a corner to retrieve a loose ball, Hodgson placed Henderson on standby. The Liverpool midfielder has been chosen even though Michael Carrick has not retired from international football and has always told the FA he would be available in an emergency.

Carrick has returned from holiday but it seems the chances of his receiving a phone-call from Hodgson are minimal. Henderson has had a modest season but Hodgson clearly admires his commitment to the cause.

Even when a defender in Phil Jagielka replaced the injured midfielder Gareth Barry, Henderson stayed on standby in case of other mishaps after Uefa’s Tuesday deadline for naming squads. As Lampard’s injury is a new one, England can replace him and Hodgson has turned to Henderson.


A call to Carrick might have opened another avenue. The Carrick conundrum contains echoes of Paul Scholes before the 2010 World Cup. Scholes, 35 at the time, would have answered Fabio Capello’s call but it came too late. Carrick, 30, has enjoyed a good season for Manchester United, and many were surprised he was not in Hodgson’s original thoughts.

Gary Neville would have been an obvious conduit had Hodgson wanted to contact Carrick or clarify his exact situation. First capped in 2001, Carrick was known to have been *frustrated at his experience of South Africa two years ago where he was an unused substitute.

Yet in the absence of Barry, most probably Lampard, and with Scott Parker easing his way back after an Achilles problem, the talented, in-form Carrick would have been a useful addition to the squad. Henderson has potential but Carrick has won the Premier League four times and the Champions League once.
Click to expand...

Do they lobotomise England managers before they allow them to take the job?
 
He wasn't in that bad form, he wasn't at his personal best but he was still good, lets not forget that we were the most dominant english team during his rough patch and he was our most used midfielder. Plus hasn't stopped other England players from getting in to the team, case in point Downing. For some reason Capello didn't like him. There's no reason why Pearce didn't select him and Hogdson after this season didn't think he should be a key part of the midfield given his performances for united, the team that just missed out on the title and was comfortably ahead of every other team bar City.
 
He was dog shit for a lot of 2009/10, Ferguson was dropping him for big games by the end of that season for pretty much the only time of his career. A couple of months after the World Cup he made out that he was injured to avoid a call up for an international friendly match, only to play 2 days later in the Community Shield in front of Capello. It's no surprise he was out of favour, Capello probably felt like Carrick was taking the piss out of him.

For this tournament, I think Carrick deserves a starting role, he's the best English player available, but it's pretty unreasonable of him to say he's not interested if he isn't guaranteed a starting spot. He'll have less of an England career than his talent merits, but a lot of that he brings on himself with his attitude.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.