Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?

Talksport debate on the omission of Carrick at the moment - very enlightening


Mick Quinn giving us an insight into the public perception of Carrick and why he shouldn't be in the team:

'Not influential enough, not like Gerrard or Lampard'....apparently Carrick is also 'too limited'.....'all he does is pass the ball' 'Why doesn't he go up the pitch and score goals?'....'Not enough impact'


Says it all really
 
Tbh that's why he's underrated in england. Unless you're throwing yourself in to tackles like Parker or bursting past people and scoring goals (Gerrard of old), or just scoring in general even if it's a lot of pens and not doing much else (Lamps), the average person doesn't seem to notice them. Amount of times i've been in a pub and heard people having a go, or even my mates, who I can't tell if they're trying to wind me up or genuinely don't see it, but these miss what the likes of Carrick bring to teams. And I think this gets translated in to the media and then they start always just talking about these same players, which is what the people then read about and I think it does influence some coaches.

Case in point, Martin Samuels at the DM, is in general a good writer imo but he's come out with some odd ones recently and the one I thought a great example of this was his selection of the best team from united and city where he put Jones alongside Toure in midfield and had Carrick and Scholes on the bench. Couldn't believe it, but it's just such a perfect example of why we don't do well and why english managers in general haven't done well recently, we've got our priorities wrong.
 
It is one thing for public perception to underestimate him. A lot of the public are numpties. The curiosity here is that manager after manager underestimate him - football people, tactical, clever people. People like Capello - and Hodgson, who have proved they know what they are doing. You may not like them or their philosophy about football or whatever but these people should be able to see what Carrick brings to the team. The fact that so many managers now have overlooked him makes me think there is something we United fans are missing.

Anyway, the only important thing to me is that he is ready for another great season next year. He will be carrying our midfield again, no doubt, so its no bad thing he will be well rested.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
It is one thing for public perception to underestimate him. A lot of the public are numpties. The curiosity here is that manager after manager underestimate him - football people, tactical, clever people. People like Capello - and Hodgson, who have proved they know what they are doing. You may not like them or their philosophy about football or whatever but these people should be able to see what Carrick brings to the team. The fact that so many managers now have overlooked him makes me think there is something we United fans are missing.

Anyway, the only important thing to me is that he is ready for another great season next year. He will be carrying our midfield again, no doubt, so its no bad thing he will be well rested.
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Either that or managers are influenced by the media, which is much more likely.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
If Carrick starts the first game he would, by definition, not be a "bit-part player".

It is not unrealistic for a footballer of Carrick's ability to say that he doesn't want to spend 4-weeks of his Summer sat on a bench in Eastern Europe. He did just that for the World Cup 2 years ago and I can't imagine it was a fantastic experience for him whilst watching our side get totally annihilated by Germany.
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If the manager opens the door for you, you should hop in, and trust that you'll be used soon enough. If this was from Terry...

LoveInTheAsylum said:
I think making any kind of demands of your national team comes across as a bit precious but I guess it should be accepted that not everyone feels strongly about representing their country. It's a shame because international competition should be a great spectacle, but with more and more money in the sport (and maybe a slight effect of the world continuously getting smaller), there are less reasons to give a damn about it. The hope would be the opposite and that it would provide some sort of escape from the other commercially dominated side.
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In most countries, being selected to represent the national team is an honor. Then again, most countries aren't England.
 
Smores said:
Either that or managers are influenced by the media, which is much more likely.
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Maybe. That is a scandal in itself, given how much they are paid. They should think for themselves.

Not sure though. remember a few years ago when the whole "Lampard and Gerrard cant play together" thing was a national truism, when Sven was manager and to some extent with McClaren. If the media had picked the team then one of them would have been dropped but it never happened.
 
Crustanoid said:
Talksport debate on the omission of Carrick at the moment - very enlightening


Mick Quinn giving us an insight into the public perception of Carrick and why he shouldn't be in the team:

'Not influential enough, not like Gerrard or Lampard'....apparently Carrick is also 'too limited'.....'all he does is pass the ball' 'Why doesn't he go up the pitch and score goals?'....'Not enough impact'


Says it all really
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Anything that Quinn says about United and it's players should be ignored.He hates us with a passion.
 
Quinn: 'For England, Hargreaves was the better player'

Other guy: 'Carrick never even got a chance :lol:'

Other guy: 'Is this a Scouse thing?'
 
The guy phoning in now is spot on - Carrick wouldn't play in the England team because of the rash of technically poor players who are always favoured in the team
 
adexkola said:
If the manager opens the door for you, you should hop in, and trust that you'll be used soon enough. If this was from Terry...
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But he's constantly overlooked, and has never been given a fair chance for years. I don't see anything wrong with him at his age, having played a full season for Manchester United, getting a bit fed-up by the situation and not wanting to sit on a bench for a month and have a high possibility of not playing any football (ala WC2010).

He says, if Hodgson had given him assurances that he would be more then just bit-part (i.e starting some games) then he would offer his services... but clearly Roy has not given any such assurances, so with that in mind, it is not in Carrick's best interests, as 30 year old footballer playing week in, week out for one of the top sides in the league, to waste his summer with England, when he could be taking a much needed rest to prepare himself for next season.

This isn't just a Carrick thing either, Ben Foster has done a similar thing (and he's younger, and a gk) and I see where he's coming from as well.
 
Name Changed said:
Barry has had a pretty good season lads. I wouldn't be his biggest fan or anything, but he has been putting in good consistent performances (unfortunately).

Carrick probably should have still gone. I would have picked him over Lampard personally.
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I think I'd side with this. Lampard internationally is maybe the worst of all of them.
 
I've got no problem with Barry, I think Carrick is the better player and has been playing better this season and would put him ahead of him, but I'd still take Barry. As I said it's lamps who doesn't fit. He's not better than either in a deeper role and he's shown he's not only not as effective in attacking midfield, but also he's not done well there for England, because we don't have a Drogba who's going to occupy both the oppositions centrebacks leaving room for him.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
It is one thing for public perception to underestimate him. A lot of the public are numpties. The curiosity here is that manager after manager underestimate him - football people, tactical, clever people. People like Capello - and Hodgson, who have proved they know what they are doing. You may not like them or their philosophy about football or whatever but these people should be able to see what Carrick brings to the team. The fact that so many managers now have overlooked him makes me think there is something we United fans are missing.

Anyway, the only important thing to me is that he is ready for another great season next year. He will be carrying our midfield again, no doubt, so its no bad thing he will be well rested.
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And something that Ferguson is missing, too. Otherwise he'd have signed Scott Parker instead of Carrick. Or to replace him last summer.
 
Carrick should have been a part of the squad to go to the Euroes. He's had a brilliant season domestically and merits being picked over some of those who have been selected ahead of him. For me, he's simply a better player than Frank Lampard or Gareth Barry now. I'd have still taken Barry but Carrick should have been picked ahead of Lampard. It should have been Gerrard or Lampard for the squad IMO.

Two years ago the decision would have been a no brainer(Lampard over Carrick) but neither Lampard or Gerrard are the players they used to be. Personally, I think Gerrard could have a big tournament left in him if he was used just off the striker but he's not had a big season for a few years now. Lampard should have been disgarded after the last World Cup internationally. He's part of a not to illustrious international past, despite being one of the best midfielders in his position in the last decade.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Carrick should have been a part of the squad to go to the Euroes. He's had a brilliant season domestically and merits being picked over some of those who have been selected ahead of him. For me, he's simply a better player than Frank Lampard or Gareth Barry now. I'd have still taken Barry but Carrick should have been picked ahead of Lampard. It should have been Gerrard or Lampard for the squad IMO.

Two years ago the decision would have been a no brainer(Lampard over Carrick) but neither Lampard or Gerrard are the players they used to be. Personally, I think Gerrard could have a big tournament left in him if he was used just off the striker but he's not had a big season for a few years now. Lampard should have been disgarded after the last World Cup internationally. He's part of a not to illustrious international past, despite being one of the best midfielders in his position in the last decade.
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Not sure if you saw the CL semi final but Lampard was instrumental in beating the'mighty Barcalona' don't remember Carrick doing much against them.

Some red tints in here who don't actually rate players like Gerrard and Lampard.

They should not play together imho but both are without doubt the stand out English midfielders.

Carrick would be fighting for the Barry role and the winner for me depends on who their partner is.

Parker would complement Carrick nicely where as Barry is needed if the manager must showhorn Lampard in the middle.

Carrick and Lampard would be frightening especially with Gerrard in front.
 
DFreshKing said:
Not sure if you saw the CL semi final but Lampard was instrumental in beating the'mighty Barcalona' don't remember Carrick doing much against them.

Some red tints in here who don't actually rate players like Gerrard and Lampard.

They should not play together imho but both are without doubt the stand out English midfielders.

Carrick would be fighting for the Barry role and the winner for me depends on who their partner is.

Parker would complement Carrick nicely where as Barry is needed if the manager must showhorn Lampard in the middle.

Carrick and Lampard would be frightening especially with Gerrard in front.
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Watched plenty of Lampard this season and I saw the CL semi final. I don't think he was instrumental in the win at all. It was a solid, defensive effort which got them through where Barcelona dominated possession. You make it sound like he outpassed Xavi and Co.

Carrick has been in consistently good form for the last season and a half and has clearly been in better form than both of them. Carrick was part of a United side that dispatched Chelsea 3 times in big games last season and ended up in the CL final. He was also a regular and consistent part of that side as well as being one of the best midfielders in the league this season.

Lampard last top season for me was Ancelotti's first season and he's not close to the top player he was for so many years. If he was like I said it would be a no brainer, but the truth is he is aging and on the wane.

Gerrard's been troubled by injuries for the last few years but I still reckon if he got fit he's not completely passed his peak yet and offers more to the side than Lampard does now. It's a risk though because he breaks down so often and has not consistently shown his best for a number of seasons. But at the end of the day, England would have to take the risk that one of them could find their best form and make them the attacking midfielder of the side. There's no one else England have in the role to pick over them with Wilshire out.

Carrick is at his peak and has been consistent all season. It's hardly red tinted specs pointing this out. If we where dealing with the Lampard and Gerrard at their peak then the matter would be very different.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Watched plenty of Lampard this season and I saw the CL semi final. I don't think he was instrumental in the win at all. It was a solid, defensive effort which got them through where Barcelona dominated possession. You make it sound like he outpassed Xavi and Co.

Carrick has been in consistently good form for the last season and a half and has clearly been in better form than both of them. Carrick was part of a United side that dispatched Chelsea 3 times in big games last season and ended up in the CL final. He was also a regular and consistent part of that side as well as being one of the best midfielders in the league this season.

Lampard last top season for me was Ancelotti's first season and he's not close to the top player he was for so many years. If he was like I said it would be a no brainer, but the truth is he is aging and on the wane.

Gerrard's been troubled by injuries for the last few years but I still reckon if he got fit he's not completely passed his peak yet and offers more to the side than Lampard does now. It's a risk though because he breaks down so often and has not consistently shown his best for a number of seasons. But at the end of the day, England would have to take the risk that one of them could find their best form and make them the attacking midfielder of the side. There's no one else England have in the role to pick over them with Wilshire out.

Carrick is at his peak and has been consistent all season. It's hardly red tinted specs pointing this out. If we where dealing with the Lampard and Gerrard at their peak then the matter would be very different.
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I agree both have passed their best but you would really take carrick before Lampard?

Fair enough but what happens if Gerrard is injured? Lampard is the perfect cover and Carricks role is more akin to Parker and Barry.

Lampard made two immense passes one assist for goals which got his team to the CL final.

Beating the European Champions, if that was Carrick I could only imagine the clusterspunk on here.

A top player who should be in the euros on merit no question.

I know he has not been amazing for England but he aint the only one and certainly Carrick has not set the world alight on the international stage.

I like Carrick very good player and underrated but he is not in the Lampard and Gerrard bracket and never has been.
 
Well recently he definitely has been way above them, gerrards been shite for the last 2-3 years, and lampard hasn't been that great these last 2 seasons either. Okay he's still a decent player who has a decent eye for a pass, but he's nowhere near as good as carrick has been this season because age has caught up with them.

Also you said a trio of carrick, lampard and Gerrard would be frightening.... What midfield would that trio scare exactly? Two past it players who are into their 30's, and one good midfielder who's never been one to do anything that frightens any team tbh. Scored 2 goals this year, probably his most for a few years. Class player but he never was, and will never be someone who will put fear into opponents.
 
Now Gerrard's been made captain he's a must-pick player so it limits midfield opportunities for the rest
 
I've always rated Gerrard higher than Lampard. Though the last time he's really performed was at the WC where he was one of the only England players who came out with any credit.

That's the thing with Gerrard, he's performed for England, which Lampard never really has. Carrick has never really seized his chances tho tbf he hasn't had enough of them for it to count against him.
 
bosnian_red said:
Well recently he definitely has been way above them, gerrards been shite for the last 2-3 years, and lampard hasn't been that great these last 2 seasons either. Okay he's still a decent player who has a decent eye for a pass, but he's nowhere near as good as carrick has been this season because age has caught up with them.

Also you said a trio of carrick, lampard and Gerrard would be frightening.... What midfield would that trio scare exactly? Two past it players who are into their 30's, and one good midfielder who's never been one to do anything that frightens any team tbh. Scored 2 goals this year, probably his most for a few years. Class player but he never was, and will never be someone who will put fear into opponents.
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I meant Frightening for us, not the opposition.... :lol:

Gerrard Scored 9 goals in 21 games this season.
Lampard 16 goals in 48 games.

as you said bad season for them too.

Carrick scored 2.

I know they play different roles which exactly why I asked if you would leave out two goal scoring AMs to give Carrick a place.
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I've always rated Gerrard higher than Lampard. Though the last time he's really performed was at the WC where he was one of the only England players who came out with any credit.

That's the thing with Gerrard, he's performed for England, which Lampard never really has. Carrick has never really seized his chances tho tbf he hasn't had enough of them for it to count against him.
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Lampard has scored 23 goals in 90 games for England.

Outstanding return for a midfielder, If he played for United he would be heralded like Scholes on this forum.
 
DFreshKing said:
I meant Frightening for us, not the opposition.... :lol:

Gerrard Scored 9 goals in 21 games this season.
Lampard 16 goals in 48 games.

as you said bad season for them too.

Carrick scored 2.

I know they play different roles which exactly why I asked if you would leave out two goal scoring AMs to give Carrick a place.
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Ah that's a lot more acceptable then :lol:
And to answer your question, I think it depends entirely on the formation Roy plans to use, but I would definitely bring 1 of Gerrard or Lampard and definitely have Carrick in there. If I was picking the teams I'd have all three of them, and get rid of Barry who is a sack of shite. Carrick is easily better then both Parker and Barry, so he would be an automatic starter IMO. I'd have a midfield three of Parker-Carrick and Gerrard if I was manager, with Lampard on the bench.
 
DFreshKing said:
I agree but people are making out he is some pub player. Scholes is my favourite player but you know how people love a goal machine.
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I do get annoyed with the whole "20 goal a season" nonsense when at least ten are penalties. I agree that he is at least on a level with Carrick though; he has the range of passing and he does score a decent amount of goals from open play.
 
Ash_G said:
Tbh that's why he's underrated in england. Unless you're throwing yourself in to tackles like Parker or bursting past people and scoring goals (Gerrard of old), or just scoring in general even if it's a lot of pens and not doing much else (Lamps), the average person doesn't seem to notice them. Amount of times i've been in a pub and heard people having a go, or even my mates, who I can't tell if they're trying to wind me up or genuinely don't see it, but these miss what the likes of Carrick bring to teams. And I think this gets translated in to the media and then they start always just talking about these same players, which is what the people then read about and I think it does influence some coaches.

Case in point, Martin Samuels at the DM, is in general a good writer imo but he's come out with some odd ones recently and the one I thought a great example of this was his selection of the best team from united and city where he put Jones alongside Toure in midfield and had Carrick and Scholes on the bench. Couldn't believe it, but it's just such a perfect example of why we don't do well and why english managers in general haven't done well recently, we've got our priorities wrong.
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You rightfully say that Carrick is underrated but do the same yourself with Lampard :confused:
 
DFreshKing said:
Lampard has scored 23 goals in 90 games for England.

Outstanding return for a midfielder, If he played for United he would be heralded like Scholes on this forum.
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Lampard of a few seasons ago was a tremendous player. He's lost a bit of what he used to have but I still like him as a player.

Carrick really should have gotten the nod over Barry. I don't rate Barry at all, and any time I watch him play he doesn't do anything to change my mind. Obviously Woy sees something which I don't, but I honestly don't get it.
 
bosnian_red said:
Ah that's a lot more acceptable then :lol:
And to answer your question, I think it depends entirely on the formation Roy plans to use, but I would definitely bring 1 of Gerrard or Lampard and definitely have Carrick in there. If I was picking the teams I'd have all three of them, and get rid of Barry who is a sack of shite. Carrick is easily better then both Parker and Barry, so he would be an automatic starter IMO. I'd have a midfield three of Parker-Carrick and Gerrard if I was manager, with Lampard on the bench.
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That's exactly the midfield I put in the pick your team thread.

If Roy has to play both Lampard and Gerrard (WHY?...) Then I understand needing Barry.
 
evra said:
I do get annoyed with the whole "20 goal a season" nonsense when at least ten are penalties. I agree that he is at least on a level with Carrick though; he has the range of passing and he does score a decent amount of goals from open play.
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To be fair though the whole (He only scores goals - mostly penalties) is a bit shit though too.

Did you see the pass for Ramires?
Both the assist and the one which led to the tap in for Drogba.

Seriously underrated player on here.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
You rightfully say that Carrick is underrated but do the same yourself with Lampard :confused:
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Not really, I think Lamps was a top player during Chelsea's pomp, but more and more I think he's living of his past rep and his goals tally is seriously boosted by his pens. But even if I'm being harsh on him there, which I probably am, in terms of what he offers from a deeper role,as is the one he'll likely play then I don't think he offers as much there as the other two and so shouldn't have been picked ahead of him.
 
Edmeiste said:
im not sure goal return should be such a determining factor for a midfielder. it's a bonus but the international game is more than just having a highlights player like lampard
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Bobby Charlton does not like this.

I said all along Carrick should be in the squad just not at the expense of Gerrard or Lampard.

I would leave out Milner. Lampard is my AM cover and we have plenty of options on the wing - Well in my squad anyway because Johnson and sturridge would be there.
 
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