Just read about that bit of news about carrick. sound lad.
It really does get to you when you are kept ignored for so long.
It really does get to you when you are kept ignored for so long.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
- Start date
It's sad, but I think you are right. I shouldn't have been surprised at all that England would ignore Carrick.
They've been ignoring him all along, just like they did with Scholes.
what I remember of Gareth Barry in the world cup
That video linked me to this pre-match analysis:
Alan Hansen: "Hey, the Germans are masters of getting the job done, we all know that, but they are an average side and eminently beatable."
Lee Dixon: "I agree with Alan, I think for this Germany side the name is bigger than the team. I think they are beatable. Ballack's been a big miss for them."
Experts.
Mickey C is just exceptionally average.
With the media the way it is it's all about blood and thunder and Carrick isn't that.
He's a punch in at 9, roll out at 5 work the numbers type player.
Can see why he wasn't picked. At the same time Lampard and Gerrard are near finished. They won't get to the next WC imo and they definitely won't have the same dynamism. Gerrard has even shown it this season.
They need a complete overhaul. Someone to bite the bullet and wipe every player over 30 out. Stick with the team through everything and then go into the next Euro/WC with 4/5 years of solid play under their belt.
With the media the way it is it's all about blood and thunder and Carrick isn't that.
He's a punch in at 9, roll out at 5 work the numbers type player.
Can see why he wasn't picked. At the same time Lampard and Gerrard are near finished. They won't get to the next WC imo and they definitely won't have the same dynamism. Gerrard has even shown it this season.
They need a complete overhaul. Someone to bite the bullet and wipe every player over 30 out. Stick with the team through everything and then go into the next Euro/WC with 4/5 years of solid play under their belt.
That video linked me to this pre-match analysis:
Alan Hansen: "Hey, the Germans are masters of getting the job done, we all know that, but they are an average side and eminently beatable."
Lee Dixon: "I agree with Alan, I think for this Germany side the name is bigger than the team. I think they are beatable. Ballack's been a big miss for them."
Experts.
Did he seriously say they've missed Ballack?
He should be drummed out of the profession for such preposterously lazy and backward nonsense.
He didn't get much of a chance to earn his spot in the past now did he. 8 games under Capello and half of them as a sub. One game in the last two World Cups. Your argument can make sense but it's a moot point really because you can't earn your spot if you aren't being played. It's not like he's doing bad in training and that's the reason he isn't picked.
He's probably annoyed as shit at the England squad and doesn't want to take part anymore. Early retirement much like Scholesy who England couldn't appreciate as well.
Everyone and their grandma know he's a better player than Parker or Barry. Put him in a limited role or put him in a role where he's supposed to distribute the ball a lot. Doesn't matter. He'd make the Spanish team. Those guys love him and his type.
Because utility men compensate for short falls in areas of the squad. No national manager worth his salt goes to a tournament without any.
Milenr can cove the wing, the defence and center midifeld. It makes far more sense to drop one of Gerarrd and Lampard than to drop him. After all England play with 2 holders and neither Gerard nor Lampard is a holder.
Plus Oxlade-Chamberlain and Milner are enough cover for anyone picked to play the attacking mdiflder role.
So I really don't see your beef with Milner presence. He never was the problem. Lampard and Gerarrd are the problem. Since the days of Scholes
England plays with 2 holders. Barry is suposed to be Parker's cover. Carrick should have been picked as Parker's starting partner instead of Lampard or Gearrd. Only him being retired can be the valid excuse for it not happening
Tbh as within himself as carrick has played in the past few seasons I don't think the likes of Barry have been playing better then him in that time but he never got a serious look in. And then for more than a year now he's been playing very well and still not had a look, even if he's included in the squad.
As for the point about others getting us to the final or him not being that experienced internationally, personally I don't think that should be a factor. You pick your best players. Last season fabio started the cl final. I can't imagine he played the majority of games getting us there. I have no doubt that had fetcher recovered he would have gone straight in the team having not played a role in getting us there. Berba was left out entirely despite being our top scorer.
You take your best players and your best options and carrick is undoubted an ideal player for international football. And if you want to talk about experience, carrick has played as many high end champions league games as the most experienced players in that squad and European football is off a higher level than international imo.
As for the point about others getting us to the final or him not being that experienced internationally, personally I don't think that should be a factor. You pick your best players. Last season fabio started the cl final. I can't imagine he played the majority of games getting us there. I have no doubt that had fetcher recovered he would have gone straight in the team having not played a role in getting us there. Berba was left out entirely despite being our top scorer.
You take your best players and your best options and carrick is undoubted an ideal player for international football. And if you want to talk about experience, carrick has played as many high end champions league games as the most experienced players in that squad and European football is off a higher level than international imo.
But the only reason he's retired is that he doesn't want to play as a fringe player, just along in case something happens. If hogdson had been considering slotting him in, in the midfield then surely he would have been able to convince him to make himself available. I think if he were available hogdson would have just put him on the reserves list.
Sadly
Spot on, good on Carrick and the latest development just highlights even more how fecking stupid Woy is as have been the many coaches before who were so reluctant to select him and make a regular feature in the first 11
We already have one utility man in Jones. Not only that, you have 4 wingers who can play either side (and Danny Welbeck if needed), so the chances of actually needing to use Milner on the wing is remote. If he wants to use Milner on the wing, then he has simply brought too many wingers with him.
So, wings covered, Milner can then only really play at fullback (where he's not great) or central midfield (where he is worse). Considering the squad already has Jones, Johnson, Cole and Baines, for your full backs (and Lescott can play there in the worse injury crisis... but as we're looking at 6 games, it looks unlikely he would be needed) would Milner really be required to play in there? Chances are slim.
So then, considering both Lampard nor Gerrard are particularly brilliant at playing the role that Barry and Parker will be made to play in this side, that would probably make Milner 3rd in line to fill that central midfield hole... which, having seen him play in there for City this year, is a disaster waiting to happen.
One utility man is fine, two is a waste. Not only that, but when you already have a squad who have numerous players who can already play different positions comfortably, it becomes utterly pointless. Milner is an average footballer who can barely get a game for City, what he's doing in this squad I do not know. Realistically, Parker should be starting alongside Carrick, and Barry should be the man who would cover either of their positions.
Gerrard will play in an advanced role beyond those two, and Lampard is the cover for him, thus it makes sense (if that's the way Hodgson will play it, and I can't see how it won't be... particularly as Gerrard is captain, and placing him in a central midfield role would be ridiculous) for both Lampard and Gerrard to be in this squad.
As things stand, should Parker or Barry get injured, Hodgson will either
- Have to play Lampard or Gerrard as part of a midfield 2 (and may or may not have to have both of them on the same pitch at the same time)
- Play Milner as part of a midfield 2
- Play Jones as part of a midfield 2
None of those options should be preferable.
Do we? I haven't team Woy's team play yet, do you have a crystal ball Chief?
Good on you Michael. You're better than Parker, Barry and co and on form deserve to be a key player not just bit part. I'm sure all of us at United don't mind it since he's gona be able to play longer for us in this way. More rest for him.
That video linked me to this pre-match analysis:
Alan Hansen: "Hey, the Germans are masters of getting the job done, we all know that, but they are an average side and eminently beatable."
Lee Dixon: "I agree with Alan, I think for this Germany side the name is bigger than the team. I think they are beatable. Ballack's been a big miss for them."
Experts.
I like the second part of that.. the HT analysis.
Dixon laying it into Mertesacker
.. and then his club go ahead and sign him.Shame, another good (United) player lost for England.
So it's gone from one of rage that Carrick was not included to congratulations that he ruled himself out.
He clearly hasn't ruled himself out though, the FA made it clear that he is available for selection as long as he isn't picked in a "bit-part" role.
So Roy wouldn't take him unless he was convinced he was a better option than the other 4? If he wasn't convinced of that then what the hell is wrong with him?
That video linked me to this pre-match analysis:
Alan Hansen: "Hey, the Germans are masters of getting the job done, we all know that, but they are an average side and eminently beatable."
Lee Dixon: "I agree with Alan, I think for this Germany side the name is bigger than the team. I think they are beatable. Ballack's been a big miss for them."
Experts.
The sad part is that people believe this dross. That's why Gary Neville has shown above the rest of them. He doesnt mind bringing up the elephant in the room.
What really surprised me is that he wasn't on the back up list. Jordan Henderson made the back up list ahead of Carrick...
...seriously?
It is baffling when you consider that if Roy does play a 4-4-2 then only Carrick and Parker has been playing regularly in that formation this season. Lampard is shite in a 4-4-2, his engine is going anyway, you can say the same about Steven Gerrard and we know they are wank together. Neither Parker or Barry have any pace. Carrick is superior to all of those players with the exception of goalscoring which Gerrard and Lampard can offer, but less so at international level anyway.
I wouldn't start with either Lampard or Gerrard of those 4 but Parker and Gerrard can't pass. It's a fecking abysmal midfield compared with other nations. We'll get utterly embarrassed again.
Same thing that's wrong with people who voted Parker as player of the year and had him in their top six this year as well.
good news he's out of the england picture for United
there's no surprise that Rio's been able to play virtually all season for United now he's not been involved for England
On last season Carrick and Parker should have walked into the England starting 11
there's no surprise that Rio's been able to play virtually all season for United now he's not been involved for England
On last season Carrick and Parker should have walked into the England starting 11
I'd tell Hodgson to feck off too if he thought that Barry and Parker were better, if I was Carrick.
I would have gone 433 with carrick holding and,Parker and Gerrard, Hodgson looks like he's going to do a liverpool!
So the continued use of the failed Lampard/Gerrard combination has now cost England both Carrick and Scholes?
This is brilliant.
This is brilliant.
After reading the reasoning, I don't blame Hodgson for not picking him. He's not earned the sort of reputation required to be able to demand first team action. He's no superstar and he has to earn his place just like the rest of the squad. Hodgson can't go around promising anything. What happens if Carrick starts the first game and is shit and has to be dropped? You'll have an unhappy player, who doesn't want to be there, taking up a place in your squad.
Much better off picking players who love playing for England, no matter what and would have no problem coming off the bench if required.
Much better off picking players who love playing for England, no matter what and would have no problem coming off the bench if required.
If Carrick starts the first game he would, by definition, not be a "bit-part player".
It is not unrealistic for a footballer of Carrick's ability to say that he doesn't want to spend 4-weeks of his Summer sat on a bench in Eastern Europe. He did just that for the World Cup 2 years ago and I can't imagine it was a fantastic experience for him whilst watching our side get totally annihilated by Germany.
Yeah I don't blame him for doing so. At the same time I don't blame Hodgson for not picking him either. Its a promise he can't make. Its up to Carrick to play in the friendlies, put a shift in at training and convince Hodgson that he deserves to be starting games, not the other way around.
I'm really surprised that Barry is going instead of Carrick.
I think Carrick & Parker would be a great combination, Barry's ok but Carrick is just better. Very surprising.
I think Carrick & Parker would be a great combination, Barry's ok but Carrick is just better. Very surprising.
I can understand Barry going because you need a solid midfield, and the usual in europe/international is to have two holding players, even if one sits more then the other, and then you have an attacking quartet ahead of them. Lampard and Milner/Downing to an extent are the ones that don't make sense. Lampard has shown again and again that in a deeper role he's just not as effective. There's nothing he offers there that would compensate for what a Carrick/Barry offer because they're as good/better passers but also are very strong defensively. He's not going to be able to burst forward there so it doesn't make sense.
You can't see him playing attacking midfield unless there are serious injuries and even then it might be better for england if someone like Young went in to that role and a Milner went wide, given we usually lack pace.
Milner and Downing again is a strange one. Given Hogdson's comments it sounds like he's included him as a winger, and fair enough have 4 wide players but given we have walcott/AOC/Young already surely you only need one of them, especially when you have Welbeck who can also play wide in a 433/451.
You can't see him playing attacking midfield unless there are serious injuries and even then it might be better for england if someone like Young went in to that role and a Milner went wide, given we usually lack pace.
Milner and Downing again is a strange one. Given Hogdson's comments it sounds like he's included him as a winger, and fair enough have 4 wide players but given we have walcott/AOC/Young already surely you only need one of them, especially when you have Welbeck who can also play wide in a 433/451.
He's never convinced for England whenever he's played. Parker, on the other hand tends to perform well.
And Scholes ignored them - he was moved out left to accomodate Gerrard and Lampard becasue he had the ability to play there, and subsequently retired. It's a totally different situation.
Never convinced for England?
Carrick's had at least one very good performamce. In terms of the ratio of good performances to total games played that's probably better than any other central midfielder in the squad.
Or to put it another way. Who amongst the other four has convinced?
Carrick's had at least one very good performamce. In terms of the ratio of good performances to total games played that's probably better than any other central midfielder in the squad.
Or to put it another way. Who amongst the other four has convinced?
When has Barry convinced for England. I thought the bum raping by Ozil(that goal at counter attack) would have made England learn their lessons regarding.
I think making any kind of demands of your national team comes across as a bit precious but I guess it should be accepted that not everyone feels strongly about representing their country. It's a shame because international competition should be a great spectacle, but with more and more money in the sport (and maybe a slight effect of the world continuously getting smaller), there are less reasons to give a damn about it. The hope would be the opposite and that it would provide some sort of escape from the other commercially dominated side.
Carrick must have felt a bit slighted by his continual exclusion - he's well entitled to think that being first choice at Man United during a period of consistent success should have meant a few more games, or at least a prolonged run in the team. Feel for him, he could have had a great international career.
Debatable. He is, after all, English, so an international career of frustration and disappointment was a given. Its just a question of whether the disappointment comes the day the squads are announced or the day England get ejected from the tournament.
Barry has had a pretty good season lads. I wouldn't be his biggest fan or anything, but he has been putting in good consistent performances (unfortunately).
Carrick probably should have still gone. I would have picked him over Lampard personally.
Carrick probably should have still gone. I would have picked him over Lampard personally.