It's absolutely bemusing. England's loss is definitely United's gain. Carrick has been a towering figure.
Alas poor Carrick...WTF has happened?
- Thread starter Carl
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It's absolutely bemusing. England's loss is definitely United's gain. Carrick has been a towering figure.
Maybe it's to do with what I posted about 5 posts up.
Clearly the England setup think he has been given enough chances to show his potenial yet hasn't done that. Which is a shame really.
I don't think Carrick's ever let himself down on England duty.
Has what Parker or Milner have produced been any better? Are the likes of Downing worthy of a place by that logic?
Carrick, for whatever reason, is a hugely divisive player. It's clear as day that he's good enough for the England squad.
Maybe he doesn't want to play ?
In 8 Caps in the last 4 years? One qualifying game where he was part of an experiment trying to accommodate the duo of Gerrard and Lampard and 7 meaningless friendlies where the teams have been chopped and changed and Carrick himself has come off at half time 3 times and in the 61st minute once.
Yeah, that's really giving him a chance. He was messed around in the ridiculous ego indulgent project of fitting Gerrard and Lampard into a midfield.
He should just retire from international football. It is an outrage a player of his quality has got his fair share of international games. fecking Capello, like Richards said, chooses players on reputation and went with Barry over Carrick. I hope he gets to rest over this summer.
I agree. The problem is the England selection process likes 'big stars' who can do the basics 'big'. Hollywood passes to make them stand out. Barry has been hyped up ever since Capello picked him regularly yet I'm sure Carrick could have done the same job, even better if given a chance - not stop-starts.
It's no coincidence Xabi Alonso and several other Spanish footballers rate him. Heck, even managers do. I don't think he has been given a fair run out but the England setup for whatever reason they think he has. Which is a shame; he would operate better with a Wilshere or Cleverley then Parker or Barry would. He appreciates space and awareness. He might lack a bit of pace but treats the ball not as an adversity, but with time on its side. Does he hog the headlines? No -- but imagine if he was in Parker's position: join Spurs or a team down a step from United which consequently helped turn their fortunates around; he would then.
For Carrick to flourish at England, the playing style has got to change. And I don't see that coming for a long time.
I agree. Hopefully Redknapp is the next manager because he knows what Carrick is all about, gave him his chance at West Ham. And that means Barry out surely; why was he given a chance tonight? We learnt nothing new about the midfield, just the FA throwing caps cheaply. Just for good measure, Barry had a quick shower and suited up rather then wait. Carrick might not have deserved a callup but what about Leon Britton? Shambles.
He is England's England's best midfielder at the moment. Saying that, I'm glad he isn't playing for them.
In these stupid friendlies I've no problem with him not playing, I'd rather we didn't have any players playing them, look what's happened to Smalling, but for England's sake, once the domestic season's out of the way, and the warm up games are coming, I'd like to see him included. I'd like someone to name a better midfielder for England at the moment.
Milner - winger
Barry - Poor man's Carrick
Wishere - injured
Lampard - gets dropped at Chelsea
Gerrard - The only one I'd say is better than Carrick if he stays fit for the season. Until that point, Carrick's above him.
Parker - Been very good this season, I think he's better defensively than Carrick in terms of his tackling and work rate, but he doesn't offer anything in terms of attack as Carrick does. He reads the game better too, but I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest Parker over Carrick.
Milner - winger
Barry - Poor man's Carrick
Wishere - injured
Lampard - gets dropped at Chelsea
Gerrard - The only one I'd say is better than Carrick if he stays fit for the season. Until that point, Carrick's above him.
Parker - Been very good this season, I think he's better defensively than Carrick in terms of his tackling and work rate, but he doesn't offer anything in terms of attack as Carrick does. He reads the game better too, but I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest Parker over Carrick.
The announcer on my stream of the Norwich match Saturday suggested that Carrick was left out since he'd been in such poor form the past 3 months. 
(Without a hint of sarcasm, by the way)
(Without a hint of sarcasm, by the way)
I did read the article, hence my ability to comment that it was a bit overkill:
Stating he has been our best player this season, whilst being the reason we are 2 points behind City and if he was 2 inches shorter and Spanish he'd "be lauded as one of the finest midfield playmakers in the world". Particularly that last part is total verbal diarrhea.
Also stating "Injured at the start of the season, it is no coincidence United's form picked up when Carrick regained full fitness," is pretty much wrong, given that our results without Carrick were:
2-1 win v West Brom
3-0 win v Spurs
8-2 win v Arsenal
5-0 win v Bolton
3-1 win v Chelsea
1-1 draw Stoke
2-0 win v Norwich
1-1 draw v Liverpool
6-1 loss v City
1-0 win v Everton
1-0 win v Sunderland
2.36 points per game without Carrick vs the 2.4 points per game with him is hardly as stark an improvement in form as the author makes out.
I agree with the general point of the article, that it is absurd that he isn't in the England squad and that he has been very good for us this season. But yes, it is a bit overkill.
Our worsening form was entirely down to injuries and poor performances from others. God only knows where the feck we'd be now without Carrick.
If he had him in this form against Basel we'd be in the knockouts.
If he had him in this form against Basel we'd be in the knockouts.
What you say is factually correct but slightly misleading. At the start of the season we stumbled on the Clev and Ando pairing, and that pairing inspired all the forwards into great form. That momentum carried us through the first few games, but during that period we were very lucky not to concede more goals during that time.
We averaged conceding 19 shots per game with the TC/Ando pairing, so although we were great offensively, we had problems defensively. As a general rule we are much more vulnerable without Carrick. The TC/Ando pairing was a one off really for only half a dozen games. We have not had it before and are not looking likely to enjoy it again anytime soon. So we have to look at how we perform generally without Carrick, and not let a purple patch inspired by a one off pairing (so far) cloud the general vulnerability we suffer when Carrick does not play.
Again factually you are right this season, i am not disputing that. But i don't think we should ignore that an unusual scenario that is not reflective of our general form, has given an extra gloss to our early season results without Carrick, is all i am pointing out.
Everyone with just a little common sense can tell Carrick deserves starting place in Englands line-up, he's been playing great football this season and should represent his country.
On the other hand I couldn't be more glad he didn't play yesterday. With match against Spurs for the weekend we need our best players ready and he got a nice week rest and that will only benefits us, who cares if England coaches are blind and don't see his quality, not the first or the last that's been overlooked.
On the other hand I couldn't be more glad he didn't play yesterday. With match against Spurs for the weekend we need our best players ready and he got a nice week rest and that will only benefits us, who cares if England coaches are blind and don't see his quality, not the first or the last that's been overlooked.
I don't disagree with most of that to be honest. I just think the author was very over the top in his praise of Carrick, inferring he is the main reason we are still in touch with City and stating our good form is down to Carrick.
Carrick has been great for the most part this season and thank god that has been the case given our injuries/inadequacies in that area. Only an idiot would pick Barry over him.
My heart agrees with this.
My head asks why so many people seem to be idiots. Everyone, in fact, except United fans. The last 3 England managers, most other football fans I know who are neutral... everyone.
And then I think maybe it is me who is not getting something.
I have no idea.
If I recall correctly we were all raving about our new midfield back then
We were raving about the potential plus our overall play however, the observation that we were letting too many chances on goal was also made back then with Ando/Cleverley pairing.
Even when Carrick came back against Bolton, we played some fantastic football that game. When our early season attacking play tailed off, it helped tremendously that we were not also leaving ourselves open at the back, of which Carrick can take a a lot of credit.
I think it is past form. Over the past 2 seasons not including this one if you're objective Barry was the superior player.
This season however since November he has been by far the superior player. It is possible that Capello thought being the better player for 4-5 months didn't yet justify being selected ahead of a "consistent" Barry.
In the case of Pearce I believe that he is just playing the safe game of selecting similar to his predecessor.
Carrick has a higher ceiling than Barry or Parker but that's not really related to how he's performed in recent times. Before this season, he went through a fairly prolonged period of mediocracy so I can see why he wasn't picked. Now, though, he deserves to be.
Also, it also depends on what a manager is looking for. If he's looking for some steel and balls which he thinks is lacking then Carrick is hardly the man to go to.
Also, it also depends on what a manager is looking for. If he's looking for some steel and balls which he thinks is lacking then Carrick is hardly the man to go to.
And therein lies the problem. England always seems to want players who "obviously" try hard. Big tackles, Hollywood passes and headless chicken style graft.
A player like Carrick who covers space, retains possession and dictates play in a subtle fashion will never be appreciated.
Which is why, until there is a huge change in our mentality towards football as a nation, we won't win sod all.
Agreed. Dont see the fascination with players of Parker's ilk at all. Who is this supposed "man with balls" for Spain? None. Its about the mentality. With the young technical players coming through, the mindset and the approach needs to change. Carrick, though not a visible battler as parker is, would be great in midfield given his current form as the holding midfielder.
I am not against Parker in the team. I'd actually want England to play both in deep roles with a front 2 of Rooney and Welbeck. Its just the fascination and admiration for a player that runs a lot and makes late tackles weird specially considering he wouldnt need to run or make the last ditch tackle had he been capable of reading the game and being at the right place in the first place.
From Englands point of view, we're lucky that there is two supremely gifted midfielders coming through who could actually change everything. We're ten years behind other teams and these two have the potential to change that.
Wilshire - Cleverley
That's a centre midfield pairing to match any other team coming through and they both play the game in the right way. If Redknapp gets them playing together and trys to work a team around them over the next 5+ years then all hope is not lost.
I agree with all of that but Carrick has also been average for a couple of years so I doubt he'd have changed anything but yes, the mentality change is important.
Personally, I think the likes of Wilshere, Cleverley, Welbeck, Chamberlain and Sturridge are the ones that can turn things around. These are players who are brave and composed on the ball and are intelligent enough to not panick in tight spaces. England should look to them and build a team using this lot and Rooney going forward.
If Spain didn't have the kind of players on the ball and the system that they do they might well have gone for a hard tackling player in the middle as well. I remember Marcos Senna being a very important player for them (although he got dropped before the euros and everyone thought they had made a mistake but they went on to to win it, I think) at one time. Basically, I don't think you can play down the importance of a tough tackling physical presence in midfield. It does and has worked for many teams in the past. But with England it becomes an issue because they don't have the fluidity and composed possession to be the base which that player would compliment. So they basically end up a poor footballing team that can't pass where players resort to exaggerating their physical effort due to a lack of other more relevant qualities.
Do you mean dropped before the World Cup? Senna was one of the players of the tournament at the Euros. I don't think you need a tough tackler but almost every successful team in recent years has had a top defensive midfielder which is one of the areas where England have been found lacking. Whether that's a Carrick type or a Parker type isn't really important, for me.
Ah yes, world cup. My point was it wasn't the tough tackling midfielder that is the issue. It's that he isn't surrounded by the core qualities of a good footballing side.
We've just had an Italian manager who still didn't pick him.
I guess if Capello had been around for the first 2 seasons after he signed for us maybe he would have been called up...
What do people think of his form for the last few weeks?
Same as its been since the new year?
Not really. He was good today, and I thought he was solid against Bilbao too(don't take this too seriously, since my stream wasn't that good, and pitch camera was from helicopter). I think he was little in dip form since Norwich game, he played good only in last 15-20 minutes in that game, and he didn't have his best games against wba and Tottenham too.
I still rate him as one of our better players this season though.
I still rate him as one of our better players this season though.
Along with Rooney, a serious contender for our player of the season.
Back to his best, which is going about his business without being noticed. One of SAFs best ever signings imo.
(and so what if he was outclassed by Barcelona's midfield in 2010 CL Final ... he played without his running mate Fletcher and its no slur to be less talented than Xavi and Iniesta!!!!)
Back to his best, which is going about his business without being noticed. One of SAFs best ever signings imo.
(and so what if he was outclassed by Barcelona's midfield in 2010 CL Final ... he played without his running mate Fletcher and its no slur to be less talented than Xavi and Iniesta!!!!)
Some stats from ManUtd.com
His best period at the club in years he has been superb. Stats back that up nicely.
"Dave Whelan could seek to tempt Antonio Valencia back to Wigan".
It thoughts exactly.