Great thread 
Alarming statistics of David de Gea in our hammerings from this season so far, and last season
- Thread starter The Oracle
- Start date
Yep, weird use of stats as well.
Surprise surprise a stat isn’t the proof some constantly make it out to be. Context will always be king in football.
I knew it. He is a shocking goalkeeper. Unbelievable stats. Can’t believe he is what United call a goalkeeper
Have I done it right?
Have I done it right?
I for one am shocked that a keepers stats decline when the entire team around him completely collapses. I assumed they would concede less goals in such a scenario?
Are you trying to portray the fact that more goals conceded dont scale with shots to the point where 4 in a game equals the same % as 1 in a game? The only thing to take from your list is that it is a fact of maths, not a explanation as to why De Gea concedes goals.
It may well be, someone earlier in the thread shared some data to that effect. My point was presenting a sample of games with either loads of goals conceded or no goals conceded and adding up shots on target doesn't tell us much about the goalkeeper's performance.
The problem with De Gea isn't his shot stopping per se or his distribution although they are both fairly average in PL terms. He is a spectacular save maker but also has some technique issues that lead him to let in more soft ones than he should.
His problem is his total lack of command, sweeping, organising and authority that ultimately leads to defensive indecisiveness that eventually leads to defensive chaos that he then has a habit of thriving in thanks to his ability to make spectacular saves.
It's like a slow disease that has affected every defender that has ever played Infront of him. Eventually they end up utterly confused and indecisive and shot of confidence and get replaced. Normally after looking good for a time Infront of De Gea before the realisation that the Keeper behind them won't leave his line ever for anything and they don't no weather to come or go and more often than not end up in no man's land.
His problem is his total lack of command, sweeping, organising and authority that ultimately leads to defensive indecisiveness that eventually leads to defensive chaos that he then has a habit of thriving in thanks to his ability to make spectacular saves.
It's like a slow disease that has affected every defender that has ever played Infront of him. Eventually they end up utterly confused and indecisive and shot of confidence and get replaced. Normally after looking good for a time Infront of De Gea before the realisation that the Keeper behind them won't leave his line ever for anything and they don't no weather to come or go and more often than not end up in no man's land.
Since the 19/20 season where he had the 5th best save percentage in the league (74.8%) he’s had the following…
20/21 - 17th (68.9%)
21/22 - 12th (70%)
22/23 - 16th (66%)
Class indeed.
Alisson is ranked 32 out of 32 goalkeepers in the Champions League this season with a save percentage of 47,6%.
Stats, huh.
To add to that: Last year he was ranked 21 with a save percentage of 50,0%. Liverpool carried a keeper with 50% save all the way to the final, that's remarkable.
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He must be having a very poor CL campaign then. That’s a horrifically low save % rate. Let’s hope it continues at the Bernabeu.
Not sure what it has to do with De Gea though.
I think what the other poster was trying to say a lot more kindly than me is that you're chatting shit.
All these stats are literally without context and this is why you all fail at making an argument.
Nice response. You stay classy.
And the context is pretty clear, the seasons upto and including 19/20 he regularly finished (or topped as in 17/18) the rankings for best save percentages in the league. Since then there has been a very obvious decline in his shot stopping ability to the point where rather then being one of the best, for three seasons in a row now he’s been average at best. And in two of those seasons below average. You can see that from just watching him. It’s clear he’s not the keeper he once was. The stats merely back that opinion up.
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I think I may have hit a nerve, as you literally made a nice little strawman.
No one said De Gea is the best in the country but some of the weirdos that pretend there's some magical keeper out there that we will buy and he won't concede more than a goal every ten games is an absolute joke and deserves to be ridiculed.
The fact these same weirdos come out of the woodwork immediately after a heavy defeat is another notch in their belt of delusions. They'll play the role of the sensible and reasonable fan but fail to see we have at least 3 or 4 positions where reinforcement is needed.
Now you can keep crying about us having a more than adequate keeper to win a title. But I never saw the same energy when Maguire was shitting the bed from the beginning of his stint at United.
All in all, I'm done with these amateur statisticians who think you can conclude much from standalone games.
I think I may have hit a nerve, as you literally made a nice little strawman.
No one said De Gea is the best in the country but some of the weirdos that pretend there's some magical keeper out there that we will buy and he won't concede more than a goal every ten games is an absolute joke and deserves to be ridiculed.
You talk about strawmans then you make up an argument that no one has said. In fact we’re not even discussing these ‘magical’ other keepers. We’re talking about De Gea and his subpar performances.
Still staying classy. Lovely.
The same Maguire that is probably the most maligned and meme’d player we’ve had in…well probably forever? As to what he has to do with this debate I have no idea.
Well, I mean, if you're going to knock his save %:
Here's last year as well when De Gea was "horrendous" and Alisson "neck-to-neck with Courtois":
I'd honestly take a harder look at reducing that Attempts statistic before I go onto the Saves statistic.
Both years City have about half the shots on goal that we have. I doubt that's down to Ederson.
Don't get me wrong, I also think we can shift De Gea into a younger keeper at some point, but I think it's about our fifth priority or so, and wouldn't mind another year or even two of De Gea.
Here's last year as well when De Gea was "horrendous" and Alisson "neck-to-neck with Courtois":
I'd honestly take a harder look at reducing that Attempts statistic before I go onto the Saves statistic.
Both years City have about half the shots on goal that we have. I doubt that's down to Ederson.
Don't get me wrong, I also think we can shift De Gea into a younger keeper at some point, but I think it's about our fifth priority or so, and wouldn't mind another year or even two of De Gea.
Well, exactly and my point on all of this. In a team of 11 players who can be replaced, he's about average priority.Well, I mean, if you're going to knock his save %:
Here's last year as well when De Gea was "horrendous" and Alisson "neck-to-neck with Courtois":
I'd honestly take a harder look at reducing that Attempts statistic before I go onto the Saves statistic.
Both years City have about half the shots on goal that we have. I doubt that's down to Ederson.
Don't get me wrong, I also think we can shift De Gea into a younger keeper at some point, but I think it's about our fifth priority or so, and wouldn't mind another year or even two of De Gea.
It's like buying a keeper would make our attackers better, work harder or stop Fred from making silly passes. It's just nonsense.
The haters are out in full force. Stop with these stupid threads.
This data would have to be compared to other top keepers to draw any conclusion
either way I think we need a new GK badly
either way I think we need a new GK badly
It’s only average priority if you don’t want us to ever play dominant football
Goalkeeper has to be more than a shot stopper. He has to be actively involved in the build up.
You see Allison become almost an extra CB when he has the ball.
Dea Gea limits us severely in that facet of play.
You see Allison become almost an extra CB when he has the ball.
Dea Gea limits us severely in that facet of play.
Anyone up for cherry picking statistics?
the sample is filtered for the worst results so it doesn’t mean much
he’s clearly a very good shot stopper, it’s the other parts of his game which are the issue
he’s clearly a very good shot stopper, it’s the other parts of his game which are the issue
DDG is disliked by many fans for his distribution or lack thereof, but this is a pointless exercise considering how calamitous the rest of the team was. If you put in any goalkeeper in this game where the defenders and some degree of luck were colluding to hand Liverpool gilt edged chances one after another, I doubt it would have changed the scoreline very much. I didn't think he could have done very much about the goals we conceded and the isolated criticism of DDG is unfair to me.
Yeah fair enough, he's regressed then. We definitely need to replace him.
This happens in most hammerings. A hammering occurs because of a statistically unusual conversion rate.
It's mostly just randomness.
It's mostly just randomness.
I'm sorry but these stats are meaningless if you're going to question DeGea's shot stopping ability based of it. I'm actually surprised someone even made a post like this, you cannot calculate percentages like this and come to any conclusion. With saves v/r shots, you have to actually see how many of those were savable, do you think the Salah strike was something DeGea could've done anything about? But it is included in your stats.
If you want to discuss DeGea's shot stopping ability, why do it only in games where we're hammered? if you still wish to do that, please watch all the goals and evaluate how many of them were savable and in how many of them he was left completely exposed. I'm sorry but despite the effort, this is a poor post.
If you want to discuss DeGea's shot stopping ability, why do it only in games where we're hammered? if you still wish to do that, please watch all the goals and evaluate how many of them were savable and in how many of them he was left completely exposed. I'm sorry but despite the effort, this is a poor post.
He conceded a lot of goals in our hammerings?
Great thread. Could have gone in his performances thread but then it would go without a ALARMING name of the thread.
Great thread. Could have gone in his performances thread but then it would go without a ALARMING name of the thread.
De Gea has is issues like distribution etc but not all the thrashing are on him
The thrashing are because we are so open in Midfield then we come against a good team which exposes that in tenfold.
The thrashing are because we are so open in Midfield then we come against a good team which exposes that in tenfold.
Very important point and why this thread is a terrible use of data, despite De Gea long being done as a top shot stopper.
That’s exactly what PSxG +/- does. It is a calculation of how many goals you would expect to concede from all of the shots a team/goalkeeper has faced AFTER it has hit the target (been scored or saves), based on its power and accuracy and proximity to the goal.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats
De Gea performs poorly on this metric and has done for several seasons. As a goalkeeper he is capable of the spectacular, but that’s completely negated by too much bread and butter goalkeeping not being up to par.
It is very clear what OP is saying - De Gea's perceived biggest quality is shot-stopping and he is very poor at it.
Both stats and the eye test tells you that De Gea is not a good keeper apart from the odd wonder save
That’s the same Alisson who should have conceded to Bruno because his footwork is so good?
I saw some disturbing stats about DeGea yesterday. So in the Brentford, City and Liverpool games which we lost 4-0, 6-3 & 7-0 apparently DeGea conceded 17 of those 17 goals. Not only that DeGea actually conceded 100% of those goals. So basically every goal against us was a shot he failed to save.
I was shocked and alarmed.
I was shocked and alarmed.
One of the things with De Gea is he’s seemed to better when we are under pressure or he’s busy.
When we’ve been a better team or he’s played for good Spain teams he seems to struggle with concentration or making the one big save.
When we’ve been a better team or he’s played for good Spain teams he seems to struggle with concentration or making the one big save.
De Gea appears to be the most controversial player in our team at the moment.
The defence gave away good shot opportunities with minimal pressure. Not sure if stats factor that? But I get OP's point that a supposed world class shot stopper should be masking the rest of his serious deficiencies by saving a couple.
I also understand why many are annoyed by the apparent witch hunt, but most were already annoyed whenever any criticism went De Gea's way. I've seen him getting high ratings on The United Stand in recent matches which I thought was odd (apart from the Newcastle game). At this point I think it's best to let things play out till the summer and leave the occasional rant to the performance thread.
The defence gave away good shot opportunities with minimal pressure. Not sure if stats factor that? But I get OP's point that a supposed world class shot stopper should be masking the rest of his serious deficiencies by saving a couple.
I also understand why many are annoyed by the apparent witch hunt, but most were already annoyed whenever any criticism went De Gea's way. I've seen him getting high ratings on The United Stand in recent matches which I thought was odd (apart from the Newcastle game). At this point I think it's best to let things play out till the summer and leave the occasional rant to the performance thread.
Yeah, save percentage just isn't a serious stat.
I'm a huge stats guy in basketball, but that's because the stats (public and presumably private ones too) are just way better in those. If you read them then watch a game you can see how they occur most of the time. We're not there yet in football and certainly not with save percentage. That's an old one from hockey and those keepers face 30 shots a night and take up half the net.
De Gea is still a very good and maybe even great shot stopper, and the rest of his game is genuinely Champo or #2 Prem keeper level.
He won't be our keeper long term, but he might be for another year or 2. Been a good run for him, and if we had bought correctly and gotten 7 or 8 core guys like him in the last couple Fergie years/first post Fergie years, we'd have been a much better team during his tenure here.
But yeah, long-term he doesn't make sense as Ten Hag's keeper, so I doubt he will be.
When you have Wout Weghorst playing game after game at number 10/striker. Rashford as your only consistent goalscorer, no alternative to Bruno, Casemiro and Eriksen (who also should be upgraded) well yeah DDG is just about average priority.