Ajax - Man Utd | EL Final Build-up Thread

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AXVnee7 said:
None of your players (or a small fraction at that) will be playing their first game in the final. United like Ajax don't shy away from playing youngsters in important games, only Mourinho does. Having said that it's been a turbulent season for him so we'll see his policy on youth better next year. Either way you won't be fielding a team of XI newbies, likewise Rashford is a youngster and we may also have some involvement from Martial too.
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A bit of a waste of my limited posts, but:
It seems you are trying to discuss with me things I am not discussing.
- Not one of our players, starting or off the bench, will play their first match of importance for Ajax1.
- When I say momentarily, I mean so far under the manager Mourinho.
- Both Rashford and Martial (although in lesser form) are already proven youngsters.

Just to repeat my previous post, hopefully better worded for you to understand:
I am only voicing my opinion that it's too big of a match for an unproven United youngster, in this case Axel, to play his first match of importance.
 
Based on the starting XI today, I reckon this will be the team on Wednesday:

--------------- Romero -----------
Valencia - Smalling - Blind - Darmian
-------------- Herrera ------------
---------- Fellaini - Pogba ---------
-- Mkhitaryan - Rashford -Martial --
 
Dir Wangem said:
Based on the starting XI today, I reckon this will be the team on Wednesday:

--------------- Romero -----------
Valencia - Smalling - Blind - Darmian
-------------- Herrera ------------
---------- Fellaini - Pogba ---------
-- Mkhitaryan - Rashford -Martial --
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I do hope Martial starts ahead of Lingard. This would make me happy
 
Dir Wangem said:
Based on the starting XI today, I reckon this will be the team on Wednesday:

--------------- Romero -----------
Valencia - Smalling - Blind - Darmian
-------------- Herrera ------------
---------- Fellaini - Pogba ---------
-- Mkhitaryan - Rashford -Martial --
Click to expand...
Any more news on Fellaini's status? If he's out Carrick would be likeliest alternative.
 
Heista said:
A bit of a waste of my limited posts, but:
It seems you are trying to discuss with me things I am not discussing.
- Not one of our players, starting or off the bench, will play their first match of importance for Ajax1.
- When I say momentarily, I mean so far under the manager Mourinho.
- Both Rashford and Martial (although in lesser form) are already proven youngsters.

Just to repeat my previous post, hopefully better worded for you to understand:
I am only voicing my opinion that it's too big of a match for an unproven United youngster, in this case Axel, to play his first match of importance.
Click to expand...

I know the points you're trying to make, but I was dispelling the myth that Ajax will be fearlessly throwing youngsters into the deep end which would be the equivalent of starting Axel in the final. You said "At Ajax we dont shy away from playing youngster in important matches and moments." If, as you say you're discussing your case in relation to Axel then it's simply not the same as your team whilst young has had experience unlike Axel. It's a different situation. Even Ajax would think twice about such a player selection.
 
If Pogba plays like he did today, it will give us a huge advantage.

He is critical to putting this team over the top now that ibra is gone.

Be interesting to see if Smalling and Jones will be the pairing in Stockholm.
 
I'd feel more confident playing the team we played today than our usual lot. Herrera for McTominay, Rashford for Rooney. We'd blow them away.
 
So Romero, Valencia, Herrera, Pogba & Rashford will defiantly start on Wednesday, but who else ?
It will surely be 3 from Smalling, Jones, Blind and Darmian to make up the back 4, that leaves 3 places up for grabs with Mhiky, Mata, Fellaini, Lingard, Martial, Rooney and Carrick in the mix.
Can't see Rooney starting so I go with this:
Romero
Valencia-Smalling-Jones-Blind..............maybe Darmian for Jones with Blind at CB
Herrera-Pogba
Lingard-Mata-Mhiky
Rashford

IF I could pick the team I would go with:
DDG
Valencia-Jones-Blind-Mitchell !
Herrera-Carrick-Pogba
Mhiki-Rashford-Martial

It's a mile away from what I expect but we can all play FM can't we ?
 
I really don't want to tempt fate, but without getting ahead of things, results today across Europe have been good for United in terms of potential 2017-18 Champions League seedings.

As a result of Juventus, Liverpool and Real Madrid winning today, a few things are now clear:
Because Juventus and Real have both automatically qualified for the Champions League, the winners of the Europa League will get an automatic group stage place (without need for a playoff - this is not ordinarily guaranteed unless the Champions League winners have already qualified automatically, which they now have as a result of Juventus winning today);
Because Liverpool have now qualified for the CL, Arsenal are out, which helps United's rankings: Arsenal are above United in the UEFA coefficients, but Liverpool are not;
Because Juventus have now won Serie A, Napoli and Roma cannot leapfrog United in the rankings (what with the champions of the top eight leagues all getting top seeding regardless of their own individual rankings): as Juventus' ranking is already better than United's, this was a good result for United.

But the most important thing is this: as a result of those results, if United win the EL, they will be *second* seeds, not third seeds; United are now effectively ranked at worst 16th. If a team below United in the rankings like Roma or Napoli had won Serie A, they would have leapfrogged United, but that cannot now happen. The impact of that is huge. Before considering the league winning bonus, United are ranked by UEFA coefficient as 15th in Europe. A few teams have leapfrogged United as a result of being national champions (Monaco, Spartak, Shakhtar), but a few others have missed out on Champions League qualification entirely (Arsenal and Schalke). That puts United from 15th, down to 18th, then back up to 16th.

As it stands, the first seeds in next season's CL will be:
Real, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, Monaco, Spartak, Benfica, Shakhtar
And the second seeds will be:
Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, PSG, Dortmund, Sevilla (if they get through the playoff round), City, Porto.... and, in 16th place, if they win the EL, United.

Compared to the third seeds, there's a huge benefit in being second seeds. The third seeds look like being a selection from:
Napoli, Spurs, Basel, Dynamo Kiev, Ajax, Olympiakos, Galatasaray, Anderlecht, Liverpool, Roma and Celtic (unless a few of these miss out).

There's definitely a benefit in being second seeds and drawing a side like Anderlecht or Basel, and being a third seed and drawing a side like Barcelona or Dortmund. That'll be the fate of Spurs, unless somehow Napoli and Sevilla don't make the group stage. Liverpool could be even worse and be fourth seeds, although they will likely slip in as third seeds if they make it.

Anyway, all that matters now is to win on Wednesday night.
 
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Anxious about this game. Unfortunately won't be able to watch it as road tripping the US. I'll be wearing my away kit for 17/18 (genuinely looks super smart) and sending good thoughts.

Unlikely to find any radio station in the car broadcasting it...
 
Win or lose, I'm excited to see what Jose does with the side in the next few seasons.
 
Carlsen19 said:
I'd feel more confident playing the team we played today than our usual lot. Herrera for McTominay, Rashford for Rooney. We'd blow them away.
Click to expand...

Don't get carried away! We played well but Palace we on holiday. Ajax will be the polar opposite.
 
Super Dave said:
I really don't want to tempt fate, but without getting ahead of things, results today across Europe have been good for United in terms of potential 2017-18 Champions League seedings.

As a result of Juventus, Liverpool and Real Madrid winning today, a few things are now clear:
Because Juventus and Real have both automatically qualified for the Champions League, the winners of the Europa League will get an automatic group stage place (without need for a playoff - this is not ordinarily guaranteed unless the Champions League winners have already qualified automatically, which they now have as a result of Juventus winning today);
Because Liverpool have now qualified for the CL, Arsenal are out, which helps United's rankings: Arsenal are above United in the UEFA coefficients, but Liverpool are not;
Because Juventus have now won Serie A, Napoli and Roma cannot leapfrog United in the rankings (what with the champions of the top eight leagues all getting top seeding regardless of their own individual rankings): as Juventus' ranking is already better than United's, this was a good result for United.

But the most important thing is this: as a result of those results, if United win the EL, they will be *second* seeds, not third seeds; United are now effectively ranked at worst 16th. If a team below United in the rankings like Roma or Napoli had won Serie A, they would have leapfrogged United, but that cannot now happen. The impact of that is huge. Before considering the league winning bonus, United are ranked by UEFA coefficient as 15th in Europe. A few teams have leapfrogged United as a result of being national champions (Monaco, Spartak, Shakhtar), but a few others have missed out on Champions League qualification entirely (Arsenal and Schalke). That puts United from 15th, down to 18th, then back up to 16th.

As it stands, the first seeds in next season's CL will be:
Real, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, Monaco, Spartak, Benfica, Shakhtar
And the second seeds will be:
Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, PSG, Dortmund, Sevilla (if they get through the playoff round), City, Porto.... and, in 16th place, if they win the EL, United.

Compared to the third seeds, there's a huge benefit in being second seeds. The third seeds look like being a selection from:
Napoli, Spurs, Basel, Dynamo Kiev, Ajax, Olympiakos, Galatasaray, Anderlecht, Liverpool, Roma and Celtic (unless a few of these miss out).

There's definitely a benefit in being second seeds and drawing a side like Anderlecht or Basel, and being a third seed and drawing a side like Barcelona or Dortmund. That'll be the fate of Spurs, unless somehow Napoli and Sevilla don't make the group stage. Liverpool could be even worse and be fourth seeds, although they will likely slip in as third seeds if they make it.

Anyway, all that matters now is to win on Wednesday night.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that. A very informative post. Now we just need to win the damn thing..nerves are jangling already!
 
Whenever we really needed a win in the League, we usually fecked it up. Thank good we dont play that game at OT though
 
Super Dave said:
I really don't want to tempt fate, but without getting ahead of things, results today across Europe have been good for United in terms of potential 2017-18 Champions League seedings.

As a result of Juventus, Liverpool and Real Madrid winning today, a few things are now clear:
Because Juventus and Real have both automatically qualified for the Champions League, the winners of the Europa League will get an automatic group stage place (without need for a playoff - this is not ordinarily guaranteed unless the Champions League winners have already qualified automatically, which they now have as a result of Juventus winning today);
Because Liverpool have now qualified for the CL, Arsenal are out, which helps United's rankings: Arsenal are above United in the UEFA coefficients, but Liverpool are not;
Because Juventus have now won Serie A, Napoli and Roma cannot leapfrog United in the rankings (what with the champions of the top eight leagues all getting top seeding regardless of their own individual rankings): as Juventus' ranking is already better than United's, this was a good result for United.

But the most important thing is this: as a result of those results, if United win the EL, they will be *second* seeds, not third seeds; United are now effectively ranked at worst 16th. If a team below United in the rankings like Roma or Napoli had won Serie A, they would have leapfrogged United, but that cannot now happen. The impact of that is huge. Before considering the league winning bonus, United are ranked by UEFA coefficient as 15th in Europe. A few teams have leapfrogged United as a result of being national champions (Monaco, Spartak, Shakhtar), but a few others have missed out on Champions League qualification entirely (Arsenal and Schalke). That puts United from 15th, down to 18th, then back up to 16th.

As it stands, the first seeds in next season's CL will be:
Real, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, Monaco, Spartak, Benfica, Shakhtar
And the second seeds will be:
Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, PSG, Dortmund, Sevilla (if they get through the playoff round), City, Porto.... and, in 16th place, if they win the EL, United.

Compared to the third seeds, there's a huge benefit in being second seeds. The third seeds look like being a selection from:
Napoli, Spurs, Basel, Dynamo Kiev, Ajax, Olympiakos, Galatasaray, Anderlecht, Liverpool, Roma and Celtic (unless a few of these miss out).

There's definitely a benefit in being second seeds and drawing a side like Anderlecht or Basel, and being a third seed and drawing a side like Barcelona or Dortmund. That'll be the fate of Spurs, unless somehow Napoli and Sevilla don't make the group stage. Liverpool could be even worse and be fourth seeds, although they will likely slip in as third seeds if they make it.

Anyway, all that matters now is to win on Wednesday night.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, interesting stuff.
 
funny moment on Sky Sports News HQ: Spelling says Bailly injury is a huge blow ahead of Wednesday's Europe Final!
 
Gatti33 said:
Don't get carried away! We played well but Palace we on holiday. Ajax will be the polar opposite.
Click to expand...
Haha, I know mate. We've been so bad at times this season though if he did spring a surprise with a few youngsters I'd be all for it.
 
I'm surprised most people think it's between Lingard and Martial to start. I'm assuming it will be Mata. More productive than either, more experience, better in possession. I think the other two got a half each yesterday to stay sharp, Mata was rested because he'll play.
 
Super Dave said:
I really don't want to tempt fate, but without getting ahead of things, results today across Europe have been good for United in terms of potential 2017-18 Champions League seedings.

As a result of Juventus, Liverpool and Real Madrid winning today, a few things are now clear:
Because Juventus and Real have both automatically qualified for the Champions League, the winners of the Europa League will get an automatic group stage place (without need for a playoff - this is not ordinarily guaranteed unless the Champions League winners have already qualified automatically, which they now have as a result of Juventus winning today);
Because Liverpool have now qualified for the CL, Arsenal are out, which helps United's rankings: Arsenal are above United in the UEFA coefficients, but Liverpool are not;
Because Juventus have now won Serie A, Napoli and Roma cannot leapfrog United in the rankings (what with the champions of the top eight leagues all getting top seeding regardless of their own individual rankings): as Juventus' ranking is already better than United's, this was a good result for United.

But the most important thing is this: as a result of those results, if United win the EL, they will be *second* seeds, not third seeds; United are now effectively ranked at worst 16th. If a team below United in the rankings like Roma or Napoli had won Serie A, they would have leapfrogged United, but that cannot now happen. The impact of that is huge. Before considering the league winning bonus, United are ranked by UEFA coefficient as 15th in Europe. A few teams have leapfrogged United as a result of being national champions (Monaco, Spartak, Shakhtar), but a few others have missed out on Champions League qualification entirely (Arsenal and Schalke). That puts United from 15th, down to 18th, then back up to 16th.

As it stands, the first seeds in next season's CL will be:
Real, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, Monaco, Spartak, Benfica, Shakhtar
And the second seeds will be:
Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, PSG, Dortmund, Sevilla (if they get through the playoff round), City, Porto.... and, in 16th place, if they win the EL, United.

Compared to the third seeds, there's a huge benefit in being second seeds. The third seeds look like being a selection from:
Napoli, Spurs, Basel, Dynamo Kiev, Ajax, Olympiakos, Galatasaray, Anderlecht, Liverpool, Roma and Celtic (unless a few of these miss out).

There's definitely a benefit in being second seeds and drawing a side like Anderlecht or Basel, and being a third seed and drawing a side like Barcelona or Dortmund. That'll be the fate of Spurs, unless somehow Napoli and Sevilla don't make the group stage. Liverpool could be even worse and be fourth seeds, although they will likely slip in as third seeds if they make it.

Anyway, all that matters now is to win on Wednesday night.
Click to expand...
Excellent :)
 
Super Dave said:
I really don't want to tempt fate, but without getting ahead of things, results today across Europe have been good for United in terms of potential 2017-18 Champions League seedings.

As a result of Juventus, Liverpool and Real Madrid winning today, a few things are now clear:
Because Juventus and Real have both automatically qualified for the Champions League, the winners of the Europa League will get an automatic group stage place (without need for a playoff - this is not ordinarily guaranteed unless the Champions League winners have already qualified automatically, which they now have as a result of Juventus winning today);
Because Liverpool have now qualified for the CL, Arsenal are out, which helps United's rankings: Arsenal are above United in the UEFA coefficients, but Liverpool are not;
Because Juventus have now won Serie A, Napoli and Roma cannot leapfrog United in the rankings (what with the champions of the top eight leagues all getting top seeding regardless of their own individual rankings): as Juventus' ranking is already better than United's, this was a good result for United.

But the most important thing is this: as a result of those results, if United win the EL, they will be *second* seeds, not third seeds; United are now effectively ranked at worst 16th. If a team below United in the rankings like Roma or Napoli had won Serie A, they would have leapfrogged United, but that cannot now happen. The impact of that is huge. Before considering the league winning bonus, United are ranked by UEFA coefficient as 15th in Europe. A few teams have leapfrogged United as a result of being national champions (Monaco, Spartak, Shakhtar), but a few others have missed out on Champions League qualification entirely (Arsenal and Schalke). That puts United from 15th, down to 18th, then back up to 16th.

As it stands, the first seeds in next season's CL will be:
Real, Bayern, Juventus, Chelsea, Monaco, Spartak, Benfica, Shakhtar
And the second seeds will be:
Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, PSG, Dortmund, Sevilla (if they get through the playoff round), City, Porto.... and, in 16th place, if they win the EL, United.

Compared to the third seeds, there's a huge benefit in being second seeds. The third seeds look like being a selection from:
Napoli, Spurs, Basel, Dynamo Kiev, Ajax, Olympiakos, Galatasaray, Anderlecht, Liverpool, Roma and Celtic (unless a few of these miss out).

There's definitely a benefit in being second seeds and drawing a side like Anderlecht or Basel, and being a third seed and drawing a side like Barcelona or Dortmund. That'll be the fate of Spurs, unless somehow Napoli and Sevilla don't make the group stage. Liverpool could be even worse and be fourth seeds, although they will likely slip in as third seeds if they make it.

Anyway, all that matters now is to win on Wednesday night.
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Thx for the breakdown. Quality post.

Is that you Statman Dave?
 
Escobar said:
Whenever we really needed a win in the League, we usually fecked it up. Thank good we dont play that game at OT though
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We usually drew though. We can still win this even if we draw after 90mins. The joys of cup competitions.
 
The new Ajax kit they will play in on wednesday.

United 1-0 behind.

twitter.com/Priya8Ramesh/status/866581865087377408

(sorry, can't post links)
 
Romero

Valencia
Smalling
Blind
Darmien

Carrick

Herrera
Pogba

Lingard
Rashford
Mkhitaryan

3-1 United - Pogba, Rashford x2
 
Not much doubt in the team selection now:

Romero
Valencia Jones Blind Darmian
Fellaini Herrera Pogba
Mkhi Rashford Lingard

Centre back place is still in the balance between Jones and Smalling. Jones playing well and coming through unscathed will do his chances no harm. If there is any doubt over Smalling's fitness, he has no chance of starting.

Lingard being subbed before half-time yesterday shows he is important to Mourinho. Pretty sure he starts, more doubtful of Mkhi at this point.

Subs probably look like:

DDG, Smalling, Tuanzebe, Carrick, Mata, Martial, Rooney

Fosu-Mensah and Harrop are first in line for bench places should there be injuries or illness before kick off.
 
Romero

Valencia <-> Younes
Smalling-Blind <-> Dolberg
Darmian <-> Traore

Herrera-Pogba-Fellaini <-> Klaassen-Ziyech-Schöne

Mkhitaryan <-> Riedewald
Rashford <-> De Ligt-Sanchez
Lingard <-> Veltman

Onana

Expected subs:

Man Utd:
Martial for Lingard
Jones for Darmian (Blind to leftback)
Carrick for Fellaini

Ajax:
Van de Beek for Schöne
Kluivert for Younes
Neres for Traore of Tete for Veltman (if he gets an early yellow.)


Gonna be a tight game.
Ajax will win it when they can get their pressing right.
United will win it when Jose can disrupt the Ajax-machine.
 
This was posted in the matchday thread & thought it might be useful here, thanks to @Heista :

Heista said:
You can guys can look at Ajax style a little bit alike of Barcelona, but just with their B-team.
Passing game, starting from the back. Fluid in attack, quick passes.

Leftback - Riedewald or Sinkgraven, Sinkgraven was out with injury and is a made leftback, as he is a LM. Riedewald is makeshift LB as he is a LCB. Both young. Sinkgraven has been our first option for LB.
LCB - De Ligt, 17 years of age, can be naive cause he is young, was a bit unlucky to concede penalty. Is not very fast on first meters. Will go into midfield like Vertonghen.
RCB - Sanchez, our Colombian rock at the back. Bit like Bailly. Agressive, athletic, aerial threat. Not the best of passer, but like Bailly.
RB - Veltman, who gets easy cards, was substituted today to net get a red card. Otherwise Tete will play, who is fast and is a very good tackler.

CDM - Schone, has a wonderful freekick, able to score from 30 meters. Not a standard CDM as he is more creative and thinks more forward. Can be a bit nonchalant.
LCM - Ziyech, has a great free kick. Is very good a tthrough passes. If he is in his element, than he is a joy to watch.
RCM - Klaassen, our captain, engine and leader of the squad. Work his ass off. Will arrive in the box alot. Has a good finishing shot and eye for where to be.

LW - Younes, tricky little fellow. Will cut inside alot. Tracking back not his strong points and can get stuck in dribbling. But a threat constantly nonetheless.
ST - Dolberg, a bit Zlatan junior and already known here on the caf. Has a menacing shot. Can hold up play and is tricky. Young lad.
RW - Traore, bit hit and miss on RW. Pacey, nonchalant. Weak shot. Good at aerial duels. Tricky, but in a bad game he makes wrong choices alot.
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