Afghanistan
- Thread starter Sherzad
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Maybe being more familiar with war they are 'hardened' to it to an extent and their threshold for panic is different to ours. I suppose if they are safe here and don't have cause to think their family are in immediate specific danger (bearing in mind they will have been in danger before anyway) there wouldn't need to, though they obviously found their lives there scary/oppressive enough to move last time.
I guess it would depend on who was at the airport attempting to escape
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There's better pictures, that one is slightly cropped, women and children nearer the front of the plane. Also got to consider women probably less likely to attempt to leave their house let alone the country with the Taliban sweeping in.
The 'weapons left behind' story is mostly untrue, the military don't just leave guns and ammunition unchecked when they leave a theater. There may be a handful of cases of abandoned vehicles, and out of service trucks being left behind.
I heard that most of the weapons the Taliban have acquired where captured from the Afghan army. Don't forget, we've spent two decades training and equipping that army, and somehow they were conquered in a matter of weeks, I don't know how true these stories of them surrendering/folding en-masse, but the hardware we gave them has inevitably ended up in Taliban hands.
This whole thing seems very fishy to me. Leaving a country to 'terrorists', not helping while you could, and even arming them on a grand scale on purpose. Will certainly play into conspiracy theorists hands.
Fair enough, I would have thought they'd do a job. Maybe not.
The Taliban has not been armed on purpose, as I explained above, they have seized American weapons from the Afghan army they just conquered.
It's complete silly comments like this that make me not want to participate in forum conversations
Tell me what's wrong with what I said then. Just because you disagree doesn't make it wrong.
It's difficult to say what's wrong with a comment so completely devoid of sense and logic.
True, although it's arguably repeating the same mistakes over and over leading to even more instability in whatever region the US pulls out of.
The comment sections is very cruel. Dogs over human being.
I love dogs too but ...
Afghanistan isn't really a viable nation state. It's borders were created by Britain and Russian a couple of hundred years ago to act as a buffer between two empires. There's no logic to them for the citizens within those borders. Constant war and the absence of any strong unifying regimes means they've never had the chance to create any overarching patriotic sentiments that extend beyond their own particular tribe.
So the Afghan forces are a army without a cause. Their recruits are there only there for the paycheck. Hence all the accusations of corruption.
On the other hand, the Taliban are fighting for Pashtunistan and their concept of an Islamic Emirate. Race and religion have always been the most potent nationalist ideologies throughout history. And they're currently being used to their fullest.
In terms of morale and fighting spirit, it's no competition for the Taliban. Since Afghanistan is majority Pashtun anyway, a significant proportion of the Afghan forces won't feel like they're surrendering to the other team. That's why the coup has been so quick and easy. I mean, I like my job. But that guy with the AK-47 can have my desk near the window if he really wants it.
So the Afghan forces are a army without a cause. Their recruits are there only there for the paycheck. Hence all the accusations of corruption.
On the other hand, the Taliban are fighting for Pashtunistan and their concept of an Islamic Emirate. Race and religion have always been the most potent nationalist ideologies throughout history. And they're currently being used to their fullest.
In terms of morale and fighting spirit, it's no competition for the Taliban. Since Afghanistan is majority Pashtun anyway, a significant proportion of the Afghan forces won't feel like they're surrendering to the other team. That's why the coup has been so quick and easy. I mean, I like my job. But that guy with the AK-47 can have my desk near the window if he really wants it.
I have a strong suspicion that if we hadn’t have embarked on the training and equipping plan, that we would have caught flack for that as well.
I don't have a dog but I had multiple pets and a dog in the past. I will evacuate any of them before any person that I don't know and some that I do....specially before some of them
Anything less than leaving a modern Germany or Japan behind and you will, I'm afraid.
Which is basically impossible, considering the relative levels of development Germany and Japan had reached prior to 1939 vs. 2000s Afghanistan.
This was an inevitable consequence that I do not see being avoided.
I'd like to know a better possible solution but I don't see it.
What were seeing is the cruel nature of war and geopolitics coming to the forefront but this is twenty years worth of actions and decisions coming to an end
It's the truth. Just because you're blind to it, doesn't make it any less so. I forget how ignorant most people are sometimes.
That's the nature of those kind of expectations, I guess.
I guess my point is that being in Afghanistan is a damned if you do / damned if you don’t situation. Once NATO started making the war about something more than strictly taking out Al Qaeda and the Taliban, this was an inevitability… but the conditions that NATO was surrounded by basically left them with no choice but to nation build.
Oh I agree. Whoever decided it was a good idea to put troops on the ground there...I don't know. Seems like one of the more obvious bad military ideas, like invading Russia in the winter.
After all that life and money wasted what has changed for the better?
Yes, the women and girls will be sent back to the Dark Ages yet again - no chance of education or work, no rights at all.
Not impossible, but it would have probably taken about 100 years to make up for the lack of general education in the necessary fields which are needed to run a modern economy to any degree of stability. The question is though, do you really want to "occupy" another nation for 100 years and play the colonial force that rescues the "noble savage" from itself? I would say no. Still it makes me sad that the only good that came out of the post 9/11 wars, freeing Afghanistan from the Taliban, is now also gone and the country will fall back into a medieval state when it comes to rights for women and girls.
Something along these lines was always inevitable after we lied to ourselves over what was actually happening during the past 20 years. We were told we were there to secure peace, for nation building etc. It was never anything other than an occupation judging by how fast it's over now. (By 'we' I mean the entire western coalition, every country included).
A thing that cringes me to my soul actually is that people in Western countries are looking at this news and their immediate impulse is to worry about Afghan refugees coming to their countries. How the F*** can you see all the terror in that country and the fear in the people there and turn it into yoúr problem and making yoúr country the victim here?! The lack of emphathy and huminaty baffles me honestly..
There is an election coming up in Norway and the leader of the most prominent far right party here made just that point in a debate last night. Sickening.
I think you have these conservative-nationalists in everye country now and I can imagine their reponses are the same everywhere.. Its very worrying for me how many people immediately go with that stance that the refugee problem is a problem for the Western countries in stead of a humanitarian crisis for the refugees and their home countries..
Absolutely, there has definitely been a surge over the last years. It’s very worrying, on many levels.
I'd take this with a barrel load of salt, but currently the Taliban are providing assurances of womens rights to education and in the workplace, albiet i'm sure they'll be defining conditions/limits to it all.
We'll have to wait and see. The central leadership can say what they want, but in reality their organisation is very fractious, people might well just do what they want.
And then you have people on this forum arguing showing a cartoon criticizing religion at school is offensive.
‘We’ from the west should be very very very ashamed. I know I am.
The Western media portraying these young men at the airport running away due to fear of the Taliban is not completely correct. A lot of those young men are understandably just wanting a better life economically for themselves and their families abroad if they can somehow leave the country. Expect a massive rush of Afghans coming to Europe on the pretext of fearing the Taliban. The reality is economics.
Please note: I'm not saying there will not be some genuine asylum seekers.
Two articles from Jason Burke who knows the country well:
The Taliban leaders in line to become de facto rulers of Afghanistan
The task facing the new head of state will be more challenging than 1996. But who is in the running for a governing role?
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
What does the Taliban’s return mean for al-Qaida in Afghanistan?
UK defence secretary is worried that ‘al-Qaida will probably come back’ – but it is already there
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...aida-in-afghanistan?__twitter_impression=true
The Taliban leaders in line to become de facto rulers of Afghanistan
The task facing the new head of state will be more challenging than 1996. But who is in the running for a governing role?
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true
What does the Taliban’s return mean for al-Qaida in Afghanistan?
UK defence secretary is worried that ‘al-Qaida will probably come back’ – but it is already there
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...aida-in-afghanistan?__twitter_impression=true
Maybe you shouldn't believe fake news?
https://www.dawn.com/news/1641180/taliban-announce-amnesty-urge-women-to-join-government
Also...
This makes sense even from a purely financial standpoint. The country needs economic development and its far easier to boost GDP by having the entire population working instead of having half of it sit at home.
And it's just for show. Anyone who believe them are in for a rude shock or have their own geo political reasons to believe them.
Are you really this naive? Willing to make a bet that women rights will be comprised by the taliban?
Their track record is questionable to say the least.
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