Afghanistan

all my phone news feeds, including both fox and CNN, piled with negative headlines directly naming biden. hope he rides this out.

...

trump is ridiculous entertainment


* Civilians would have been removed to Guantanamo for an indefinite period of enhanced immigration questioning
Upon successful completion of a period of torture they would be permitted to the southern border to build the wall (for which Mexico will be billed)... USA USA USA
 
Karzai, Abdullah, and Hekmatyar. Would be absolutely hilarious if it wasn’t so damned tragic. Likely they’ve been aiming for this since Karzai left office.

Clowns the lot of them. Hekmatyar should have been neutralised 30 years ago.
 
Karzai, Abdullah, and Hekmatyar. Would be absolutely hilarious if it wasn’t so damned tragic. Likely they’ve been aiming for this since Karzai left office.

Clowns the lot of them. Hekmatyar should have been neutralised 30 years ago.

Who knows - maybe these three disperate individuals can help in some way. Alternatively, they could become an annoyance and get thrown in jail. Well, Abdullah at least.
 
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I'm reading that the CIA backed Khost group has surrendered to the Taliban, with the Taliban accepting their surrender and not retaliating.
 
That's really the best case scenario at this point right?
There’s also a few other bits I’m reading where they’ve granted amnesty to all Afghan regime individuals, talked to leaders of Afghan Sikhs and Afghan Hindus in Kabul (assuring them safety) and we’re now seeing Hazaran (the Shi’ite community) and Taliban working together, which is unprecedented and suggests a future free of bloodshed. I’ll post some links when I’m on my laptop.
 
Some commentators from Pakistan etc had always drawn the conclusion that the Taliban would return to power eventually and moreso once behind the scenes talks with the Taliban had been held. There is a video from 2020 where a Taliban spokesman had said that's one documents had been signed that forces would leave by a stated date.

The ease with which the Taliban have taken control suggests maybe there were agreements with them.

I don't think necessarily that Biden is to blame for what is happening now as some of the talks etc had taken place before him. He just happens to be the guy in place as it happened.

Speaking to Iraqis, Kurds and Libyans over the years many have said they wanted Saddam or Gaddafi gone but after have stated things were better under them than what transpired and continues. One Kurdish guy in particular I spoke to a while back told me that as Kurds they weren't allowed ownership (business/house) under Saddam and could only rent. Him and his father hated Saddam. He had sought asylum here and had become a successful businessman. Even he wanted the Saddam days back.

Reason I write this is maybe after 20 years if what the people in Afghanistan have seen the Taliban don't seem so bad?

Who was it hat said that the people had never had it so good in Britain? After the world war?
 
People clinging on to planes and then falling to die. So bizarre, and so so sad.
Hard to imagine standing next to that plane and thinking the risk of grabbing onto it are less than staying on the ground. But I expect that's how they felt.
 
Not sure it's a case of neocons. You just can't do that to a superpower and not expect an overwhelming response. I remember just after 9/11 I flew over to the US, and the mood was febrile. I don't even think Bush had much of a choice really. Would be the same if the Afghans did the same to China or Russia. I broadly agree with the bolded too, but at that point it was about revenge. Nothing and nobody was stopping it.

And you're also right nobody gave a shit beforehand. It was only in August? 2001 that they even authorised a covert program against the taliban.

Months before, after he warned of the 9/11 attacks, a smart play would have been to let/facilitate Massoud win, and crush the Pakistani side of the Taliban whilst he did. He had a ready made alliance ready which broadly supported the cause. But people didn't even take meetings with him. Mossad were barred from helping, Jerusalem didn't even answer his calls. Pakistan wanted his head on a plate, and the US preferred to fund through Pakistan only. Only India did anything anything at all of note (and that's only because the Taliban were almost a branch of the ISI around that time.) The US possibly leaked his location to Al Quaeda through the ISI. 2 days before 9/11. 2 Fecking days. No invasion. Interference certainly, but no invasion.

And yea, once you're there, I'm probably more of a maximalist than anything else. I believe you should clean up your own shit.

What is this bit about? Generally curious.
 
Is this meant as some glorification about recent events or just providing a backdrop for the Taliban pov?

The former, I’m still bitter Mullah Omar was denied the Hottest One-Eyed Jihadist Award of 1996 (in fairness Mokhtar Belmokhtar is quite dreamy).
 


This is what I was saying yesterday.

I get news from different sources, being from south Asia I not only get the news from asian news channels and papers but also links to things from social media etc via family over there.

The one thing being spoken of over there is that the old Taliban are dead (literally) and the new Taliban are possible "stooges".
 
The former, I’m still bitter Mullah Omar was denied the Hottest One-Eyed Jihadist Award of 1996 (in fairness Mokhtar Belmokhtar is quite dreamy).

He was well dreamy.
 
US military spending was roughly 4-5X Afghan GDP and in some years US aid spending was equal to Afghan GDP. Meanwhile poverty went up from ~35% to 55%, even as some HDI indicators slowly improved. Obviously it was being pocketed by American contractors and the Afghan govt.

https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/adam-toozes-chartbook-29-afghanistans

This is one of the main issues that has led to the failure of this whole situation.

Every president of the US plays a role in this tragic situation since the start of the 20 year war in Afghanistan. The US conflict with Afghanistan was obviously popular after 9.11, but the military intervention went on for way longer than necessary. At no point was there any hope of an Afghan coalition to fight the corruption and culture of perpetual war within.

As a former journalist in Washginton DC, I'm working on an article on the complete overview of this situation. I've been away from the journalism thing for a few years, semi retired but I'm seeing CNN doing talking points that mostly forgive Biden of his role in all this.
 
This is one of the main issues that has led to the failure of this whole situation.

Every president of the US plays a role in this tragic situation since the start of the 20 year war in Afghanistan. The US conflict with Afghanistan was obviously popular after 9.11, but the military intervention went on for way longer than necessary. At no point was there any hope of an Afghan coalition to fight the corruption and culture of perpetual war within.

As a former journalist in Washginton DC, I'm working on an article on the complete overview of this situation. I've been away from the journalism thing for a few years, semi retired but I'm seeing CNN doing talking points that mostly forgive Biden of his role in all this.
Examples?
 
Posted this in this thread in April last year:



Many many indications that the Taliban of 2021 plan to rule (relatively) inclusively. Whether or not they have it in them to do so will be seen, but their continued rule is dependent on it. Hopefully Chinese and Pakistani support can be positive in this regard.

Certainly they are far more concerned with their international image compared with the 90s, when they genuinely couldn’t give a feck (outside world might as well have not existed to them back then).

After well over 40 years of continuous warfare, Afghanistan needs peace so bad. Plenty of good reasons to doubt that the Taliban can achieve it, and their success may have bad consequences elsewhere (3-4 years after fall of ISIS the global jihadi crowd will now be emboldened again). On the other hand they are today the only shot the country has.
 
The Panjshir remains unconquered, as always:

 
the guy who tweeted it is british press:

Shashank Joshi
@shashj

Follow
Defence Editor at
@TheEconomist
. Formerly
@rusi_org
. Interested in international politics & security. Signal number: +447732590563

His Wiki page is only 12hours old and the only press mentioning his name is the Indian one (on the internet) - some stories were reported more than a day ago. I've read and heard that Abdul
Ghani Baradar will become president - he was one of the Taliban founders.
 
Examples?

Most significantly, CNN hasn't covered the extensive timeline that Biden played a role in all this situation. Biden was at the start a minority ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1979 and on the committee up until he became Vice President with Obama. Mind you, I'm a non-partisan observer here. The republicans leaders did no better in this cluster-f*ck of policy throughout.

My departure from the facts above, my feelings and support for more than a decade had been to pull troops due to the utter lack of a viable plan, as described by several former generals on CNN, today.
 
Most significantly, CNN hasn't covered the extensive timeline that Biden played a role in all this situation. Biden was at the start a minority ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1979 and on the committee up until he became Vice President with Obama. Mind you, I'm a non-partisan observer here. The republicans leaders did no better in this cluster-f*ck of policy throughout.

My departure from the facts above, my feelings and support for more than a decade had been to pull troops due to the utter lack of a viable plan, as described by several former generals on CNN, today.

Here's another perspective that might unfold over the next month or so...

Most people, including myself felt that going into Afghanistan was a just cause after 9.11. Today, the Russians and Chinese are making a meal of this humanitarian, political, and military tragedy. Although I don't recall the Russian invasion of Afghanistan deploying any sort of humanitarian efforts of medical clinics, women's rights, or voting rights, all poorly done by the US, but hey the US gave it their best effort
 
I guess we will never be able to prove that without access to the daily intel briefings... but it would be a shocking failure of having intelligence services there for 20 years and not even seeing this as a possibility worth briefing the president on?

I've heard rumblings inside military circles that intelligence clashed with how high levels of the government believed would unfold. Intelligence felt this could go belly up fast while high level brass and officials didn't think it was possible. Make of that what you will.
 
Here's another perspective that might unfold over the next month or so...

Most people, including myself felt that going into Afghanistan was a just cause after 9.11. Today, the Russians and Chinese are making a meal of this humanitarian, political, and military tragedy. Although I don't recall the Russian invasion of Afghanistan deploying any sort of humanitarian efforts of medical clinics, women's rights, or voting rights, all poorly done by the US, but hey the US gave it their best effort

Just to safe face for invading a country for some saudi terrorist and bush having bad ratings. PR stunt. If you are the good guy, you can't go to a country, invade it with poor reasons/lies (like massive destructions weapons in Iraq) and leave like a you raid it.

For me now it seems like

jfzebq4dq7z11.jpg


It was never the case

"11-S! USA!...er women rights?, yes lets say that"

After 20 years, some people will believe that it was the reason
 
I've heard rumblings inside military circles that intelligence clashed with how high levels of the government believed would unfold. Intelligence felt this could go belly up fast while high level brass and officials didn't think it was possible. Make of that what you will.

Here's my trouble with those that didn't think Afghanistan would fall so quickly; The example of Iraq was a lesson that should have been more closely considered. The minute US troops completed their departure, rebel forces seized on every city and left over military equipment immediately throughout the north. Everyone knew the vacuum of power wouldn't take long to be overcome by the Taliban. Well, anyone with a sense of recent history
 
For a superpower, America sure do love ass whooping from time to time.

Sold a dream to Afghan people, and then ran away leaving them helpless. I was just reading one interview where Afghanistan first woman mayor mentioned she is just waiting to be killed by Afghanistan.

And this report makes me question what is wrong with male species


No wonder Taliban swept through the country in no time.

World stood by and watched ISIS killing children and forcing Yazidis in sexual slavery for 7 years. One would think that surely the powers around the world won't let that happen again.

With all the money in the world, why can't rich middle East countries atleast evacuate non muslim and women right now. This should have been done before the deal was struck. Afghanistan population isn't that big anyway.
 
Just to safe face for invading a country for some saudi terrorist and bush having bad ratings. PR stunt. If you are the good guy, you can't go to a country, invade it with poor reasons/lies (like massive destructions weapons in Iraq) and leave like a you raid it.

For me now it seems like

jfzebq4dq7z11.jpg


It was never the case

"11-S! USA!...er women rights?, yes lets say that"

After 20 years, some people will believe that it was the reason

It's what happens when a country gets too rich and powerful. And people wonder why Russia and China close off their leadership, too much ability to change and the good ole USA would decide to play God again