Adnan Januzaj

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RedRonaldo said:
Attracting top class players. Apparently you were away during the whole summer.
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I feel you're going to go into some agenda driven bullshit but I'll ask anyway. What are you on about? The only top class players we went after were Fabregas, who didn't want to leave his boyhood club and reports after the window that we bid for Bale in the eleventh hour but he had already decided on Real.
 
Adebesi said:
Yes, possession is 9/10 of the law. Or, in this case, it is easier (but not easy) to keep hold of players you already have if Real show some interest. But competing against Real for a signing is an order of magnitude harder.

I bet there are examples of people who come to us having rejected some provisional interest from Real. There just isnt enough information in the public domain to know, but someone who is a lifelong United fan may well choose us - or someone who prefers chip barms with gravy to tapas. Such people do exist, even outside the UK. Its just they are in a minority.
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Actually I mainly just don't think either Barca or Real will show any interest in him now anyway, at least, not for the foreseeable future, that's why I find it weird that people are mentioning them in the first place. It'll be similar to Pogba, other big(gish) European clubs who are willing to offer more money and games to an 18 year old than we are, only this time, I think we will offer him the games and probably overpay him in wages to keep him.
 
Losing Januzaj after what happened with Pogba would be extremely negligent. It could also be highly damaging to the club's reputation. Hopefully United can convince him that was is happening now is the start of a bright future with the club, and a good deal is offered to ensure his long -term future.
 
Adebesi said:
I always think climate has got a lot to do with it. Obviously the margins are fine between the clubs in terms of football, they all regularly compete for trophies, contest the CL etc. They have similar history and facilities (I think?) Wages will be a bit different but usually comparable I would have thought.

What it comes down to for a multi-millionaire is where they would rather live. Madrid or Manchester? Spain or England? We will always have this geographical / cultural disadvantage.
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I agree with this post. Climate and location definitely plays a big part in a players decision I'd imagine. Everything else is pretty close when it comes to weighing up Barca, Madrid and United's pulling power.

We're hardly the richest club in England alone anymore, but we just splashed out 27m on Fellaini of all people and supposedly offered a hefty sum for Bale, among others the summer gone. We can most definitely still compete on a financial level when we need to. Paying the necessary wages also rarely seems to be an issue when it comes to United.
 
Cina said:
Actually I mainly just don't think either Barca or Real will show any interest in him now anyway, at least, not for the foreseeable future, that's why I find it weird that people are mentioning them in the first place. It'll be similar to Pogba, other big(gish) European clubs who are willing to offer more money and games to an 18 year old than we are, only this time, I think we will offer him the games and probably overpay him in wages to keep him.
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Oh yes, for sure it wont come up for a few years with Real, their model is to buy finished articles, not develop raw talent in house. We can wank along all we want to Januzaj but he is hardly a galactico as things stand.

The situation I was envisaging was along the lines of what Brosstan says above. Though there is a long way to go before he develops into the player that will make that happen.
 
b82REZ said:
I feel you're going to go into some agenda driven bullshit but I'll ask anyway. What are you on about? The only top class players we went after were Fabregas, who didn't want to leave his boyhood club and reports after the window that we bid for Bale in the eleventh hour but he had already decided on Real.
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You can go on believe whatever suits you. But facts remain facts. We didnt even come close based on our past records of attracting very top talents when compared with the 3 clubs you've mentioned.
 
Januzaj is trolling the world atm, probably got multiple tabs open on his laptop lapping up all the fuss.
 
We could waste all his talent! Why wouldn't he want to play for England?!

Jan - U - Zaj zaj zaj
On the wing we watch him fly
Jan - U - Zaj Zaj Zaj
Come on Moyesy get him signed
To the left, To the Right
He'd be useless in a fight
Shows he's class, by the load
Until Hodgson gets a hold...
 
I have also noticed this inferiority complex of late, but people are not all mad and it has not come from nowhere. Due to a combination of paying more money, the chance of playing with better footballers or being in a more desirable location than Manchester - only a man in denial would dispute we are not heavyweights now when it comes to attracting the best players.

This whole panic about an 18 year old from our academy 'choosing us' highlights it in itself, it's a joke. It should, in theory, be a no-brainer. But there is genuine fear he will find another club more appealing for some of the reasons I gave above. Then there is also another theme I have detected that says 'if he has anyy sense, he'll stay here because we'll play him, but he won't get into other top teams. He can leave when he's mid-twenties'. That makes us sound second-rate in itself. Young players using us a stepping-stone to get to the real utopia of Real/Barca, because we are better for the 'development' stage of their career.

Ideally, Januzaj leaving should not be a concern at all unless he was not playing, and the risk was losing him to a smaller club who will give him more games. Not the fear that he will already think he is too big/good for us and go to a super-club. Then he should want to make it here and spend his best years here, I'm tired of this 'well we'll get some good years then sell him for big money' theory. Nobody is waiting to see of Neymar or Isco 'prove themselves' for a few years before signing them. It seems Barca/Real are the holy grail, and any other club can be considered a stepping-stone, including ours, for a player who may eventually become good enough to play for them. We should be matching them for prestige.
 
Bestie07 said:
We never had for most of our history. We were on our way there around the turn of the century and then the Glazers happened.
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Yep true. Can't be argued we are second-tier. This whole 'every player wants to play for United' thing doesn't really wash. I honestly think we would struggle to claim to be the most desirable club in the Premier League even, at present.
 
Rozay said:
I have also noticed this inferiority complex of late, but people are not all mad and it has not come from nowhere. Due to a combination of paying more money, the chance of playing with better footballers or being in a more desirable location than Manchester - only a man in denial would dispute we are not heavyweights now when it comes to attracting the best players.

This whole panic about an 18 year old from our academy 'choosing us' highlights it in itself, it's a joke. It should, in theory, be a no-brainer. But there is genuine fear he will find another club more appealing for some of the reasons I gave above. Then there is also another theme I have detected that says 'if he has anyy sense, he'll stay here because we'll play him, but he won't get into other top teams. He can leave when he's mid-twenties'. That makes us sound second-rate in itself. Young players using us a stepping-stone to get to the real utopia of Real/Barca, because we are better for the 'development' stage of their career.

Ideally, Januzaj leaving should not be a concern at all unless he was not playing, and the risk was losing him to a smaller club who will give him more games. Not the fear that he will already think he is too big/good for us and go to a super-club. Then he should want to make it here and spend his best years here, I'm tired of this 'well we'll get some good years then sell him for big money' theory. Nobody is waiting to see of Neymar or Isco 'prove themselves' for a few years before signing them. It seems Barca/Real are the holy grail, and any other club can be considered a stepping-stone, including ours, for a player who may eventually become good enough to play for them. We should be matching them for prestige.
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I would say we are heavyweight, we just arent heavyweight champions.

As you identified, there are two scenarios here: let me call them the Ronaldo scenario and the Pogba scenario. I think they are self explanatory.

The Ronaldo scenario is the one that leads to a conversation about Madrid. There isnt much we can do about that, any more than Spurs or Everton can do anything about us poaching their best players. That is just a natural pecking order, the law of the jungle, and while we can all dream of being lions, in reality we all have our place and we can count ourselves lucky to be relatively high in the food chain, even if we arent at the top.

The Pogba situation is more relevant in the here and now, but I dont think we have a problem here. I think Pogba was badly handled - and accentuated because Morrison happened around the same time. But I think we will have learned from that. Alternatively, if we took a principled stand and management stand by those principles then it is possible itll happen again. But at least we have some more control over it. The difference is, Pogba didnt grow up dreaming to play for Juve, he just weighed up his options, and we can influence the outcome more by making the staying option more appealing.
 
RedRonaldo said:
You can go on believe whatever suits you. But facts remain facts. We didnt even come close based on our past records of attracting very top talents when compared with the 3 clubs you've mentioned.
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What I believe is what I can see, not just imagine things. We made bids for two players, both of whom would have been difficult, if not near impossible to sign for any other club. I really don't see what you're angling at.

United have never gone out and signed top talents, this year being the first time we were vocal about doing so. But that was more as a mark of intent under a new regime rather than a change in our transfer philosophy.
 
Adebesi said:
That is just a natural pecking order, the law of the jungle, and while we can all dream of being lions, in reality we all have our place and we can count ourselves lucky to be relatively high in the food chain, even if we arent at the top.
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The food chain is liable to be changed though. Clubs are coming up from behind as quickly as the ones ahead are speeding up. Hope we realize this before we are just left among a bunch of second tier clubs. We no longer have the man who held it all together.
 
We were supposed to register him in Champions league squad yesterday as a 'B' list player now that he has completed 2 years, making him eligible for remaining 4 games, according to mirror article. Not sure if it was done, uefa.com squad list of us for this season doesn't show his name yet. Nothing to worry though as 'B' list players can be registered and added to squad till 24 hours prior to matchday.
 
So is there a limit to how often Januzaj can play with the 1st team this season in the Premier League?
 
FCBarca said:
So is there a limit to how often Januzaj can play with the 1st team this season in the Premier League?
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No. Why? Is there any limit in any other league on game time in first team for player below certain age or something? Never heard anything like that.
 
b82REZ said:
What I believe is what I can see, not just imagine things. We made bids for two players, both of whom would have been difficult, if not near impossible to sign for any other club. I really don't see what you're angling at.

United have never gone out and signed top talents, this year being the first time we were vocal about doing so. But that was more as a mark of intent under a new regime rather than a change in our transfer philosophy.
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We are big enough to attract most top talents in this world for sure, but we are not up there with the 3 clubs you've mentioned. That's nothing to be ashamed of, as someone has already put it up nicely, we aren't at the top but we are relatively high in the food chain.
 
Apparently, Barcelona, Man City and Juventus are all interested in Januzaj.

But I think there is less than 1% chance of him leaving.
 
Bloody press putting unnecessary spotlight on Adnan. I am amazed that all over sudden the whole world seems to have woken up to the fact that here is a footballer who can play football and could be eligible for countless countries. Did they really think United would play someone without a certain proficiency at football?

This is not what the lad needs at this point in his career, his head could easily be spun to the detriment of his daily job. Moyes needs to come out and protect the lad right now. His development is better off without the press and FAs speculating his international allegiances. I wouldn't be surprised to see Adnan benched in the next game as the manager seeks to arrest the situation.
 
FCBarca said:
In Spain, such a limit exists with registered Segunda players playing in the Primera
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Oh I see. It is a bit different though in Spain, right, with B teams of some clubs playing in segunda. Here the u21/u18 league has no interference with senior football at any level and operates separately so it doesn't matter.
 
Eto'odinho said:
Bloody press putting unnecessary spotlight on Adnan. I am amazed that all over sudden the whole world seems to have woken up to the fact that here is a footballer who can play football and could be eligible for countless countries. Did they really think United would play someone without a certain proficiency at football?

This is not what the lad needs at this point in his career, his head could easily be spun to the detriment of his daily job. Moyes needs to come out and protect the lad right now. His development is better off without the press and FAs speculating his international allegiances. I wouldn't be surprised to see Adnan benched in the next game as the manager seeks to arrest the situation.
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Why would you be amazed? Teenage wonderkid scores two great goals and saves us from a humiliating loss, and the press go ape shit. Its what the press does. Remember Macheda?

You are right that he needs protecting, this is where SAF came into his own. Moyes got a lot of credit for the way he handled Rooney as a teenager though, Im sure he will handle it well.
 
I think you have to look at all the different factors that come into play when young players are making contract decisions.

Some the incumbent club have control over and some they don't.

Off the top of my head and in no particular order:

1. Development opportunity
2. First team opportunity
3. Facilities
4. Other players
5. Current success of club
6. History of club
7. Location/geography/climate
8. Agent influence
9. Language
10. Family support/advice
11. Desire to travel
12. Money
13. Regular game time
14. Managerial pull (Fergie factor)
15. Managerial longevity
16. Cultural fit
17. Positive relationships with coaching staff
18. Length of current contract

Plus one or two others I may have missed.

The order/priority of these factors will dictate a young players decision. (Or any player for that matter)

You could argue that a handful of top clubs, United included, have good development opportunities, facilities, other great players, historical and current success. So they even themselves out.

So the other factors become deal breakers.

We will never compete on the climate in Spain or Italy, or even with the attractions of say London. There's is not a lot we can do about that.

So we have to do our best around the remaining areas. Foreign imports usually have an agent in situ, have already moved country, are used to living away from home, have learned English...so it is much easier to do it again. For English based players (who have been limited by 90 minute rule) it would be a much harder decision to move country which is why you don't see it happening. Also there is plenty of good money to be made playing in England so that factor doesn't really come into play.

We have the best track record of giving players a chance of first team football, something even Pique acknowledged when he left Barcelona, and we try to maximise that advantage...or at least I know Ferguson did. Scott Wootton said the same about Liverpool who have a poor historical record...while Newcastle are terrible.

I speak to many parents on a Saturday morning and they say that they rejected Chelsea and City because their kids just won't get a chance. Arsenal, Palace, Everton and Southampton are also very good.

How we put the whole package together makes a big difference.

Having lost Ferguson through retirement perhaps some players are less likely to come/stay. But given time, Moyes longevity may be attractive. Players like consistency at the top.

Pique, Rossi, Pogba, Morrison, Shawcross and others all left for very different reasons. But if you look at other clubs, Barca and Madrid included, they lose talented youngsters for a variety of these factors too. It just isn't in our face every five minutes like the current Januzaj situation.

Finally, whether we like it or not, we have a wage structure in place for a reason.

We can argue about it all day long but it still exists for a reason.

If someone wants more money, then sometimes you just have to say no. It could be a annual salary which will upset all the other players (fine with an exceptional player like Messi or Ronaldo but not an inexperienced 18 year-old)...an outrageous one off payment to an agent...or some other financial request.

As with 'guaranteed' minimum number of games which is what Pogba's agent wanted, I understand fully why Fergie rejected that idea straight away. He couldn't even guarantee Rooney or RvP a certain number of games.

I think the whole situation has blown up in the media because we lost Morrison and Pogba very quickly and they were clearly talented. But both left for different reasons, many outside of the clubs control...regardless of what some people think on this Forum.

Let's hope that Januzaj's 'list of factors' can be met by United and he therefore signs a long-term contract with the club.
 
Mr. MUJAC said:
I think you have to look at all the different factors that come into play when young players are making contract decisions.

Some the incumbent club have control over and some they don't.

Off the top of my head and in no particular order:

1. Development opportunity
2. First team opportunity
3. Facilities
4. Other players
5. Current success of club
6. History of club
7. Location/geography/climate
8. Agent influence
9. Language
10. Family support/advice
11. Desire to travel
12. Money
13. Regular game time
14. Managerial pull (Fergie factor)
15. Managerial longevity
16. Cultural fit
17. Positive relationships with coaching staff
18. Length of current contract

Plus one or two others I may have missed.

The order/priority of these factors will dictate a young players decision. (Or any player for that matter)

You could argue that a handful of top clubs, United included, have good development opportunities, facilities, other great players, historical and current success. So they even themselves out.

So the other factors become deal breakers.

We will never compete on the climate in Spain or Italy, or even with the attractions of say London. There's is not a lot we can do about that.

So we have to do our best around the remaining areas. Foreign imports usually have an agent in situ, have already moved country, are used to living away from home, have learned English...so it is much easier to do it again. For English based players (who have been limited by 90 minute rule) it would be a much harder decision to move country which is why you don't see it happening. Also there is plenty of good money to be made playing in England so that factor doesn't really come into play.

We have the best track record of giving players a chance of first team football, something even Pique acknowledged when he left Barcelona, and we try to maximise that advantage...or at least I know Ferguson did. Scott Wootton said the same about Liverpool who have a poor historical record...while Newcastle are terrible.

I speak to many parents on a Saturday morning and they say that they rejected Chelsea and City because their kids just won't get a chance. Arsenal, Palace, Everton and Southampton are also very good.

How we put the whole package together makes a big difference.

Having lost Ferguson through retirement perhaps some players are less likely to come/stay. But given time, Moyes longevity may be attractive. Players like consistency at the top.

Pique, Rossi, Pogba, Morrison, Shawcross and others all left for very different reasons. But if you look at other clubs, Barca and Madrid included, they lose talented youngsters for a variety of these factors too. It just isn't in our face every five minutes like the current Januzaj situation.

Finally, whether we like it or not, we have a wage structure in place for a reason.

We can argue about it all day long but it still exists for a reason.

If someone wants more money, then sometimes you just have to say no. It could be a annual salary which will upset all the other players (fine with an exceptional player like Messi or Ronaldo but not an inexperienced 18 year-old)...an outrageous one off payment to an agent...or some other financial request.

As with 'guaranteed' minimum number of games which is what Pogba's agent wanted, I understand fully why Fergie rejected that idea straight away. He couldn't even guarantee Rooney or RvP a certain number of games.

I think the whole situation has blown up in the media because we lost Morrison and Pogba very quickly and they were clearly talented. But both left for different reasons, many outside of the clubs control...regardless of what some people think on this Forum.

Let's hope that Januzaj's 'list of factors' can be met by United and he therefore signs a long-term contract with the club.
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Bravo.
 
Valencia apparently turned down Real Madrid.
 
It's got nothing to do with an inferiority complex. Real and Barcea are considered better and bigger by players from the parts of the world where the best players come from. It's simply how it is. We're as big a club but our appeal is stronger than them in places that don't produced as good footballers.
 
iirc the guy who posted this video is in the newbies.

 
The main question is why do we even let a contract go into the last year? We dont know since last Saturday that he's a great talent. 6 months before the last year, a new contract should be signed.
 
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