Adnan Januzaj

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Cina said:
Am I supposed to know the inner dealings of the club?

When have we ever beaten Real to a player, can you answer me that?

Actually when the feck does anyone ever beat Real to a player? Apart from ... Barca.
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Rooney, pretty sure they expressed and interest in Kagawa and RVP, Rio, Vidic is regualrly linked to the big two Spainish teams.

You are embodying the inferiority complex I was talking about. It's as if our supporters just give up hope as soon as these two clubs are mentioned.
 
Cina said:
Do pray tell me more.

Oh, remember, they can't be from a decade ago, that's not allowed apparently.
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The fact that the data you're using isn't representative. All of the British players you mentioned we had no interest in so what does there inclusion in this discussion matter. Beckham would have stayed but we wanted rid.
 
If he doesn't want to stay even after we give him plenty of money and we're starting him, then he isn't the sort of player we want. As long as the club does the right things and isn't tight-fisted, then if he goes, we just have to deal with it. That said was there no way we could have extended his contract earlier.
 
b82REZ said:
Rooney, pretty sure they expressed and interest in Kagawa and RVP, Rio, Vidic is regualrly linked to the big two Spainish teams.

You are embodying the inferiority complex I was talking about. It's as if our supporters just give up hope as soon as these two clubs are mentioned.
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Where's your proof for this exactly? When were they in for Rooney? Or Vidic? Or Rio (I mean I've never even heard rumors of this one)

Also, my question wasn't about our own players, it's about players we've beaten them to the signature of. Who have we done that with?

I'm not embodying anything, I'm merely embracing fact, something you seem unable to do, despite basically already acknowledging that every big football nation out there apart from England will pick Real or Barca over us.
b82REZ said:
The fact that the data you're using isn't representative. All of the British players you mentioned we had no interest in so what does there inclusion in this discussion matter. Beckham would have stayed but we wanted rid.
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:confused: You asked me to provide a list of British players they signed, what more do you want?
 
Raees said:
If he doesn't want to stay even after we give him plenty of money and we're starting him, then he isn't the sort of player we want. As long as the club does the right things and isn't tight-fisted, then if he goes, we just have to deal with it. That said was there no way we could have extended his contract earlier.
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Amazing how many are overlooking this. Good post.
 
The biggest lesson United can draw from the other top clubs is to understand what they're offering and at least match it. That's wages, it's the manager's promises, it's even things like release clauses.

We didn't get Thiago. If the United rumour mill is right we never committed ourselves to getting him: Moyes wasn't phoning Thiago's dad/agent every day demanding the chance to speak to Thiago about the great opportunities at United. From all accounts - we weren't trying to outbid Bayern in any sense of the word. He was apparently an interesting possibility not a "must have." No ambitious young player wants to hear that and Thiago wasn't even that young; he was looking for his big career making contract.

We lost Pogba to Juventus. Do we really think they're also now the club every (non-Italian) kid dreams about?

Adnan's different. We want him. The manager can tell him that he matters to us. The fans can sing about it. And in the end, we can pay the going rate both in financial and non-financial terms and get him on a proper contract. Try and ignore the going rate and the agent will be collecting his signing on fee elsewhere - maybe even a signing on fee based on the going rate for a new Belgium international with Premier League and World Cup exposure.
 
Cina said:
Where's your proof for this exactly? When were they in for Rooney? Or Vidic? Or Rio (I mean I've never even heard rumors of this one)

Also, my question wasn't about our own players, it's about players we've beaten them to the signature of. Who have we done that with?

I'm not embodying anything, I'm merely embracing fact, something you seem unable to do, despite basically already acknowledging that every big football nation out there apart from England will pick Real or Barca over us.
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I'm not going to trawl through years of newspaper reports and transfer speculation, but fairly certain the aforementioned have all been linked to Madrid or Barca during their careers. Rooney especially chose us over Chelsea, Newcastle and Madrid when we originally signed him. He was the Bale of 2004.

List me players they have beaten us to the signature, because from memory the only time we've gone toe to toe with them over a target was Bale, in which we made an eleventh hour bid.
 
Raees said:
If he doesn't want to stay even after we give him plenty of money and we're starting him, then he isn't the sort of player we want. As long as the club does the right things and isn't tight-fisted, then if he goes, we just have to deal with it. That said was there no way we could have extended his contract earlier.
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I don't really agree with that. If we are offering him games in the Premier League (and maybe even the Champions League) and competitive wages and he still decides to leave us for another club, I'd suggest we could have a bigger problem. This whole "if he doesn't want to play for us" business is quite worrying really. Why would a young player not want to play for United if he's getting good money?
 
Pexbo said:
I don't really agree with that. If we are offering him games in the Premier League (and maybe even the Champions League) and competitive wages and he still decides to leave us for another club, I'd suggest we could have a bigger problem. This whole "if he doesn't want to play for us" business is quite worrying really. Why would a young player not want to play for United if he's getting good money?
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Because there are bigger fish after him?
 
b82REZ said:
I'm not going to trawl through years of newspaper reports and transfer speculation, but fairly certain the aforementioned have all been linked to Madrid or Barca during their careers. Rooney especially chose us over Chelsea, Newcastle and Madrid when we originally signed him. He was the Bale of 2004.

List me players they have beaten us to the signature, because from memory the only time we've gone toe to toe with them over a target was Bale, in which we made an eleventh hour bid.
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Whut? Over Madrid? First I've heard about that!

Bale, Ozil and Sanchez all rejected us for Spanish clubs, they took Ronaldo from us, Thiago went to Bayern, Hazard picked Chelsea, Moura picked PSG, Fabregas said no, Pogba left for Juve. Real on the other hand have basically bought every target they've wanted, Ronaldo, Ozil, Khedeira, Alonso, Isco, Di Maria, Bale etc etc. There's a massive gulf in our lure to players and their lure to players, anyone who isn't biased towards our club should be able to see that.
 
A lot of this discussion is hypotethetical whether you realise or not as this 'We were interested in X' is usually from some bollocks source in the first place, then you would have to weigh up how interested we were against current players, how do you know Team A didn't have more of a want each time?
 
Cina said:
Am I supposed to know the inner dealings of the club?

When have we ever beaten Real to a player, can you answer me that?

Actually when the feck does anyone ever beat Real to a player? Apart from ... Barca.
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Bebe. If you believe reports that they were in for him.....
 
Bestie07 said:
Because there are bigger fish after him?
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For whatever reason. If he feels the coaching isn't what he needs to progress, if he feels the club isn't going to win trophies in the next 5 years, if he thinks of any other club as being "bigger" than us, we have problems.

Imagine if Ronaldo had these thoughts in 2005 and decided to see out his contract and Rooney did the same in 2006. I think it's fair to say that that would be the difference between 5 Premier League Titles, a Champions League (and 2 RU Medals), A WCC Trophy or alternatively... challenging for the Top 4.


It's imperative that we keep our best youngsters and develop them into the stars they can become because lord knows we're not buying many stars these days.
 
Cina said:
Whut? Over Madrid? First I've heard about that!

Bale, Ozil and Sanchez all rejected us for Spanish clubs, they took Ronaldo from us, Thiago went to Bayern, Hazard picked Chelsea, Moura picked PSG, Fabregas said no, Pogba left for Juve. Real on the other hand have basically bought every target they've wanted, Ronaldo, Ozil, Khedeira, Alonso, Isco, Di Maria, Bale etc etc. There's a massive gulf in our lure to players and their lure to players, anyone who isn't biased towards our club should be able to see that.
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Nothing to do with bias.

Thiago, terrible example, has since been reported we made no offer plus Bayern aren't Spainish. Ozil and Sanchez rumours were unfounded. The Hazard and Moura transfers came down to agent fees which we refused to pay, plus didn't realise they had since joined Madrid who we're talking about. The bolded players we never showed an interest in when Madrid signed them. Subsequently we bid for Khederia while he was at Madrid but they turned it down, it was also widely recognised we were Ozil's preference when Madrid wanted to sell him.
 
Cina said:
Whut? Over Madrid? First I've heard about that!

Bale, Ozil and Sanchez all rejected us for Spanish clubs, they took Ronaldo from us, Thiago went to Bayern, Hazard picked Chelsea, Moura picked PSG, Fabregas said no, Pogba left for Juve. Real on the other hand have basically bought every target they've wanted, Ronaldo, Ozil, Khedeira, Alonso, Isco, Di Maria, Bale etc etc. There's a massive gulf in our lure to players and their lure to players, anyone who isn't biased towards our club should be able to see that.
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I agree, when it comes to attracting players Real Madrid are first are then Barca slightly behind. It depends on the player but many don't lie the Madrid circus so would rather join Barca. We are on par with Bayern, Chelsea, JUve (perahps) when it comes to attracting players.
 
Pexbo said:
I don't really agree with that. If we are offering him games in the Premier League (and maybe even the Champions League) and competitive wages and he still decides to leave us for another club, I'd suggest we could have a bigger problem. This whole "if he doesn't want to play for us" business is quite worrying really. Why would a young player not want to play for United if he's getting good money?
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We're a club in transition with an unproven manager, the style of play we have is unknown at the moment .. we're far behind the likes of Barca and Bayern in terms of current quality. The way I see it at Barca there is definitely a Right wing position up for grabs, Januzaj could possibly take that... ahead of Sanchez/Pedro. Clubs like Barca/Bayern.. they're real clubs, well run, United type clubs. They appeal to youngsters with their heads screwed on.

Personally I think now that we're playing him and we're offering good money, he'd be an idiot to leave. If I was in his position I'd stay at United for a couple of years and see where the club is heading before I make a decision on where I want the next phase of my career to be.

I still don't see how a move to Juve can be attractive, it is a step down from the English League.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I agree, when it comes to attracting players Real Madrid are first are then Barca slightly behind. It depends on the player but many don't lie the Madrid circus so would rather join Barca. We are on par with Bayern, Chelsea, JUve (perahps) when it comes to attracting players.
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We are more attractive than Juve for sure, at least at the moment. Chelsea and Bayern we are on par with.
 
b82REZ said:
Nothing to do with bias.

Thiago, terrible example, has since been reported we made no offer plus Bayern aren't Spainish. Ozil and Sanchez rumours were unfounded. The Hazard and Moura transfers came down to agent fees which we refused to pay, plus didn't realise they had since joined Madrid who we're talking about. The bolded players we never showed an interest in when Madrid signed them. Subsequently we bid for Khederia while he was at Madrid but they turned it down, it was also widely recognised we were Ozil's preference when Madrid wanted to sell him.
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I mean when Madrid signed Ozil, not sold him, and no it wasn't. You can't dismiss what I say as media nonsense if what you say is based on media nonsense too.

I realize those transfers come down to financials but wasn't that part of my point? Real can offer more transfers/wages ergo it's one of the reasons they're preferred to us?

Pretty much any neutral fan will tell you Madrid are considered to be the place most attractive to footballers, closely followed by Barca, and certainly not us.
 
Bestie07 said:
We are more attractive than Juve for sure, at least at the moment. Chelsea and Bayern we are on par with.
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How so? We failed to get every big player we went for. We have not signed a BIG player in a long time. The only reason we can't compare is Juve don't spend big money, if they did then it would be easier to compare.
 
JaffyJoe said:
How so? We failed to get every big player we went for. We have not signed a BIG player in a long time. The only reason we can't compare is Juve don't spend big money, if they did then it would be easier to compare.
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We signed Fellaini this summer, he's as big as it gets!
 
JaffyJoe said:
How so? We failed to get every big player we went for. We have not signed a BIG player in a long time. The only reason we can't compare is Juve don't spend big money, if they did then it would be easier to compare.
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Juventus are playing in an inferior league in front of half empty stadiums every other weak, pay less money and are still finding their feet in Europe again. I'd say that makes them less attractive than us, for now at least. That said it's actually alarming how quickly the European clubs are chasing us down from our 2008 pinnacle and continue to overtake us one by one.
 
Cina said:
I mean when Madrid signed Ozil, not sold him, and no it wasn't. You can't dismiss what I say as media nonsense if what you say is based on media nonsense too.

I realize those transfers come down to financials but wasn't that part of my point? Real can offer more transfers/wages ergo it's one of the reasons they're preferred to us?

Pretty much any neutral fan will tell you Madrid are considered to be the place most attractive to footballers, closely followed by Barca, and certainly not us.
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I'm sure Fergie himself said we never expressed an interest in Ozil while he was at Bremen. That's what I'm basing it on.

Not every player is motivated by money, see RVP. I don't agree that all neutral fans will say Madrid and Barca are more attractive than us, especially to young players who often get left out and stunt their development. The differences between us, Madrid, Barca and Bayern are negligible in terms of attractiveness. Most players are concerned about playing time, which Januzaj is pretty much guaranteed atm at United. If he's more concerned with money I personally couldn't care less if he leaves. Like Fergie used to say, you stay at United and the money finds you. Young players chasing the dollar should be shipped out IMO. I don't believe Adnan falls in this category from what I've read of his interviews, so consiering the Spainish giants can't guarantee him games like we can I believe we are in pole position to sign him up.

You seem to have a very defeatist attitude about this situation.
 
b82REZ said:
I'm sure Fergie himself said we never expressed an interest in Ozil while he was at Bremen. That's what I'm basing it on.

Not every player is motivated by money, see RVP. I don't agree that all neutral fans will say Madrid and Barca are more attractive than us, especially to young players who often get left out and stunt their development. The differences between us, Madrid, Barca and Bayern are negligible in terms of attractiveness. Most players are concerned about playing time, which Januzaj is pretty much guaranteed atm at United. If he's more concerned with money I personally couldn't care less if he leaves. Like Fergie used to say, you stay at United and the money finds you. Young players chasing the dollar should be shipped out IMO. I don't believe Adnan falls in this category from what I've read of his interviews, so consiering the Spainish giants can't guarantee him games like we can I believe we are in pole position to sign him up.

You seem to have a very defeatist attitude about this situation.
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How the hell am I being defeatist here? Because I don't see the club I support as being as attractive to players as the biggest, wealthiest, most successful club in the world, who constantly break world records to sign players, constantly sign all the biggest stars in the world and are watched in more countries than anyone else? That's defeatist? Christ, I'd hate to be a Liverpool supporter arguing the same thing with you then.

RvP not motivated by money? Erm, he's our highest paid player along with Rooney and on around double what he was at Arsenal, don't be so naive. The difference between us and Real is not negligible, sorry to break it to you.
 
b82REZ said:
I'm sure Fergie himself said we never expressed an interest in Ozil while he was at Bremen. That's what I'm basing it on.

Not every player is motivated by money, see RVP. I don't agree that all neutral fans will say Madrid and Barca are more attractive than us, especially to young players who often get left out and stunt their development. The differences between us, Madrid, Barca and Bayern are negligible in terms of attractiveness. Most players are concerned about playing time, which Januzaj is pretty much guaranteed atm at United. If he's more concerned with money I personally couldn't care less if he leaves. Like Fergie used to say, you stay at United and the money finds you. Young players chasing the dollar should be shipped out IMO. I don't believe Adnan falls in this category from what I've read of his interviews, so consiering the Spainish giants can't guarantee him games like we can I believe we are in pole position to sign him up.

You seem to have a very defeatist attitude about this situation.
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Januzaj will sign a new contract with us, and the reason will be that he would already be a part of the first team by the time he signs it. If he had a similar guarantee at Madrid/Barca, he would join them. It's kind of the same reason that Ramsey chose Arsenal over us, because he thought that he would get more opportunities there than at United. It didn't make Arsenal more attractive than United at the time, just that it made more sense from his perspective. I doubt he would have picked Arsenal had he got a guarantee that he would be playing a similar role at United as Arsenal would have promised him. Similarly, a world class player at his peak, unless he is someone like Scholes, one who will walk into both United and Real's starting elevens, will chose Real over United.
 
Madrid don't get every player they want. They get most though and 90% of footballers would choose them over us. Then again, they pay a lot more. Bale's 'dream move' involves 300k a week going into his pocket.
 
pocco said:
He's tailor made for Barca. It's worrying that they're confident they'll sign him. Still, I don't know why Januzaj would feel under appreciated, he's been fast tracked through the ranks.
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He'd be a perfect addition but I didn't really glean confidence that Barcelona are well positioned to sign him from any local media. Adnan rebuffed the club in '11 before going to OT, albeit money played a bigger role in that move since Barcelona couldn't offer him a professional contract at 16. Sure, the longer contract negotiations go on, the better chance everyone has to come in for him - especially Qatari money, tbh.

Credit to him & his Dad, they're in prime negotiating position to determine their future. He could be the featured centerpiece of United or join any number of other big clubs. Depends on whether he has some ambition to succeed somewhere specific that hasn't been revealed publicly yet.
 
Cina said:
How the hell am I being defeatist here? Because I don't see the club I support as being as attractive to players as the biggest, wealthiest, most successful club in the world, who constantly break world records to sign players, constantly sign all the biggest stars in the world and are watched in more countries than anyone else? That's defeatist? Christ, I'd hate to be a Liverpool supporter arguing the same thing with you then.

RvP not motivated by money? Erm, he's our highest paid player along with Rooney and on around double what he was at Arsenal, don't be so naive. The difference between us and Real is not negligible, sorry to break it to you.
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Don't need you to break anything to me. I have my opinion, you have yours. Opinions are like arseholes and you are most definitely an opinion.

I have no doubt RVP likes his £250k a week but he turned down larger offers to join us, so money was not this major contibuting factor when signing for us.

You are being defeatist. You're basically saying if Madrid or Barca and to a lesser extent Bayern show interest in him he'll be off. It's not as simple as that, nor do I believe Januzaj belives they are more attractive from a footballing POV.
 
b82REZ said:
I'm sure Fergie himself said we never expressed an interest in Ozil while he was at Bremen. That's what I'm basing it on.

Not every player is motivated by money, see RVP. I don't agree that all neutral fans will say Madrid and Barca are more attractive than us, especially to young players who often get left out and stunt their development. The differences between us, Madrid, Barca and Bayern are negligible in terms of attractiveness. Most players are concerned about playing time, which Januzaj is pretty much guaranteed atm at United. If he's more concerned with money I personally couldn't care less if he leaves. Like Fergie used to say, you stay at United and the money finds you. Young players chasing the dollar should be shipped out IMO. I don't believe Adnan falls in this category from what I've read of his interviews, so consiering the Spainish giants can't guarantee him games like we can I believe we are in pole position to sign him up.

You seem to have a very defeatist attitude about this situation.
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I think you are getting abit too naive here. Forgot what happening to us during the summer already?
 
b82REZ said:
You are being defeatist. You're basically saying if Madrid or Barca and to a lesser extent Bayern show interest in him he'll be off. It's not as simple as that, nor do I believe Januzaj belives they are more attractive from a footballing POV.
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No, I'm not, I'm not at all. If you checked my post it was with regards to you stating that we're as popular a destination for players as Barca or Real, which I strongly disagree with.

I think we'll keep Januzaj, actually.
 
Well, the thread is digressing into 'are United as big as Madrid and Barca to attract top talent.' While we are on it, I just want to point out some big players moving to likes of City, Chelsea, PSG and now Monaco even when they weren't and aren't the biggest by any stretch of imagination. Reason? throwing insane money at players. Real and Barca have best of both worlds. They have unparalleled history and add to that willingness to spend very big. We and to certain extent Juve go about business little differently, trying to find 'value' as far as possible. In terms of history and achievements and recognition United and Juve are almost at same level as Real and Barca but every club/league have the regions where they are more followed than others.

So, for me, it is not just about "not big enough club to attract really top talent," it comes down to willingness to spend that big. If Aguero, Yaya, Essien, Ballack, Falcao, Ibra, Thiago Silva etc etc can move to the clubs they moved, we could certainly get these and even better players if they are there provided we want to adapt that kind of transfer policy (which we wont). I am personally fine with it provided trophies continue to flow and we continue to invest in developing the players from academy so we can reach stage like Barca where we can get real top talents from academy (3-4 players from same batch) and then go all out on those 1-2 positions where we need to buy.
 
I always think climate has got a lot to do with it. Obviously the margins are fine between the clubs in terms of football, they all regularly compete for trophies, contest the CL etc. They have similar history and facilities (I think?) Wages will be a bit different but usually comparable I would have thought.

What it comes down to for a multi-millionaire is where they would rather live. Madrid or Manchester? Spain or England? We will always have this geographical / cultural disadvantage.
 
Seriously, lads, any chance of taking the inferiority complex stuff into another thread and keeping this Januzaj-related?
 
Cina said:
I think we'll keep Januzaj, actually.
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Yes, possession is 9/10 of the law. Or, in this case, it is easier (but not easy) to keep hold of players you already have if Real show some interest. But competing against Real for a signing is an order of magnitude harder.

I bet there are examples of people who come to us having rejected some provisional interest from Real. There just isnt enough information in the public domain to know, but someone who is a lifelong United fan may well choose us - or someone who prefers chip barms with gravy to tapas. Such people do exist, even outside the UK. Its just they are in a minority.
 
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