Really hope moyes and co don't feck this one up.
Adnan Januzaj
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Hopefully is a case of story creation and things are progressing nicely behind the scenes.
If Moyes says things are moving along nicely, we have no need to panic.
Sure Januzaj will be getting clubs begging his agent to join them as he is 1 of the hottest youngsters in world football, but he seems happy here. He has grown up in his early years with us and he is getting plenty of football.
I think right now the best thing for him is to remain with us and force his way into the side.
If after that he is not playing enough or paid enough, then I can understand his decision.
Sure Januzaj will be getting clubs begging his agent to join them as he is 1 of the hottest youngsters in world football, but he seems happy here. He has grown up in his early years with us and he is getting plenty of football.
I think right now the best thing for him is to remain with us and force his way into the side.
If after that he is not playing enough or paid enough, then I can understand his decision.
It's not that Moyes has done anything blameworthy. He's in a tricky situation, not of his own making, and he's trying to handle it. If he doesn't succeed, it won't necessarily be because he's done something wrong.
If DM doesn't think he's ready, should he pick Adnan merely to persuade him to sign a contract? Thorny question. How far do we go to keep a potential major talent? Is the manager's job solely to pick the best team today, or should he consider tomorrow, next year, three years from now?
My feeling is, given complete freedom of choice, Moyes wouldn't take a chance on Januzaj. If it weren't for his contract situation, he'd be experiencing the joys of Blackburn, as we speak. But only Moyes himself, and possibly his staff, know whether that's true.
According to the MEN, he's not in the squad for WBA! I don't know if that's the official match day squad or MEN's estimate thereof. Fans are going to get pretty pissed off if we continually see the likes of Anderson on the bench and no Januzaj. To be fair to Moyes he has included him recently but I think a lot of people, including me, would like to see him start a few games never mind coming off the bench. United better not mess this opportunity up!
It would be crazy for the manager to pick a team based on trying to get an edge in contract negotiations. I'm sure Moyes won't do that. He does seem very impressed by Januzaj and has shown a lot of faith in him already. Doubt he'll be starting many games in the coming weeks but a repeat of the Palace cameo is probably deserved at some point and will probably be as gratefully received by the player as his PL debut.
I don't think that is possible for the MEN (whatever it is) to know who is in the squad. The squad gets announced only an hour before the game and usually people outside of United inner circle doesn't know it before it's announced.
Going on topic, Moyes is doing well to give Adnan chances. 3 matches in our 8 first games is worthy considering. He seems to be above Zaha in pecking order (though it's early to say that this is really true, but until now it seems so) which is a big thing for a player like Januzaj who despite his talent, hasn't played a single time in a senior competitive match until Moyes first match in charge of United. I am hopeful that he's going to sign a new contract soon and if Moyes continue playing him and United offers him a good contract then I think he'll stay. No reason to panic yet IMO, because it could have easily been that Telegraph got it wrong. Anyway we'll see, the next few matches could be a great oppurtunity to play him, with us playing against weaker teams and hopefully Moyes understanding that Young shouldn't play. A good oppurtunity to give some games to Adnan and possibly a start.
Edit: The situation isn't similar to Pogba at all. Pogba genuinely did well to leave cause SAF didn't trust him despite us being a bit shit in midfield. On the other side we have around 10 players who can play in those three positions behind the striker, and Januzaj has played in three of our eight games. More than anyone would have expected in the beginning of the season IMO.
Given the near to zero contribution from Young so far and the extreme negative mass reaction towards him at the moment, we should give Januzaj more starts. Couldn't be any worse to the team and would also help binding him for long term contract too.
I knew it! I fecking knew it!
If the MEN are reporting that then expect him to start.
No, the squads get released a day or two before (see jamie jackson twitter feed...only thing he is good for). The first team gets released 45 mins before.
Although I don't know if the are many rules about changing the 16 squad before game
That's true but we do have the Pogba precedent. Had Fergie played him more or at least set out some more concrete future plans for him then things might have been different. With Januzaj it could be the same and United need to do everything they can to give him a deal commensurate with what he could get elsewhere. He's a super confident kid and he wants to play although he seems very level headed about it right now. However, if he feels he's not getting enough opportunities and they start trying to penny pinch on the contract then he might easily have his ear bent by others. The two issues probably go together. After all he'll become one of the most sought after youngsters in Europe before too long, if he isn't that already.
It's just the MEN guessing.
No one wants a repeat of that but you've got the added advantage of hindsight with Pogba so its easy to say it was a mistake now considering his talent. At the time it was probably less of the case. The logic was right with Pogba, if you go offering all unproven young players 20k a week contracts you set yourself up for a massive fall. Every youngster then has that to come back to the club with in their negotiations, all the half decent players who may be good premier league players in the future, most the fans will want them tied down to contracts it seems and they've basically got the leeway to ask for big money before they've even kicked a ball for the first team. Teams like United, Liverpool, Arsenal I'd imagine are al the same, it's not like Pogba would of been offered 20 quid a week, he would of just been given a reasonable contract and asked to prove himself to get a new one I'd imagine. Same will happen with Sterling at Liverpool and same will probably happen with the likes of Gibbs at Arsenal (who is probably on a much better deal now.)
By throwing money at them you tie them down to the contract which is obviously an advantage in the likes of a Pogba especially in a position we're lacking at the moment but there's no way to say it was 100% guaranteed to be a success, then people question your judgement for signing a player with no experience on a huge contract.
It's easier said than done for me because I'm not in the position these young players are in but if they want to stay and prove themselves then to me it looks better than the club just giving in and giving them what they want. I seriously doubt after their first years at the club the Nevilles, Beckham and Scholes were still on the same contract they broke through on. A good year and you're probably given a big pay rise.
David Moyes didn't say anything bad about the influences! He was talking about them in positive light.
Just read it, they definitely took it out of context.
It does sound like Pogba all over again
No it doesn't, it sounds more like a newspaper twisting what was said from a positive into a negative.
Well don't be. I was too.when I first read what was in here, but after watching.the press conference I'm confident again.
Yes you can't offer any up and coming youngster big wages, but part of your job as a manager is to assess whether a certain youngster is worth losing in order to adhere to an unwritten principle. To think this United side could've had Pogba and Januzaj in and around the first team at the same time.. how exciting would that have been, if we were to lose Adnan too, then I can't think of that as anything but a disaster and it would put other talented youngsters off joining us.
Especially if Zaha is not given a chance either. It'd be fine if it was due to big competition for spaces but there really isn't, in terms of talent.. Januzaj only has Kagawa and Nani to compete with and the former is in very questionable form.
Especially if Zaha is not given a chance either. It'd be fine if it was due to big competition for spaces but there really isn't, in terms of talent.. Januzaj only has Kagawa and Nani to compete with and the former is in very questionable form.
We offered Pogba around the same as what Juve offered him so that argument is pointless.
There's 2 sides to every argument though. I agree you don't want to lose your best players and in no way do I blame a player leaving for more money however if the club has a policy there then they're going to stick to it. A manager works within a budget, I'm sure Fergie had a lot of say in them kind of policies but if you break if then it's basically gone. If they brought it back how demotivating is it for the next youngster to come through "Yeah...we gave Pogba 20k a week but you're not really worth that" you risk either having to give big contracts to unproven players with potential or basically losing a lot of players who could turn out to be very good just for signing 1.
It would of been exciting to see that but again it's all done in hindsight, it's all well and good these players been brilliant in the youth team but then the step up can be too much, it's happened plenty of times before, Pogba has obviously proven to be successful and I hope that Januzaj is too but the club put these wage caps etc there for a reason.
I think you're maybe getting a bit carried away with the likes of Zaha, it's been 5 games and he's a young player, he will get a chance, he was brought in for the future thoough and may have to wait, I'm sure he's aware of that. People like Kagawa and Nani will probably get shown more loyalty for lack of a better word because they are more experienced players. The same applies for Young (although I'm sure he is close to losing chances!) because they're proven in the past. Young players need time to slowly ease into a team in my opinion. In my opinion Liverpool have a bad habit of bringing youngsters in and running them in to the ground, Sterling last season is a perfect example. From around December onwards he was pretty useless because he had played so much. The same happened to Owen, he peaked at 23 years old probably which is ridiculous for a striker of that talent. People seem to want these players to just come in straight away and take on the world for 20 years, that rarely happens.
What I find strange is people are happy to give these players what they want and they've played 1 or 2 games. The likes of Rooney want a new contract on big money and people make out he's not worth it yet is consistently our best player, seems bit odd to me.
Have MEN got this Saturday's lottery numbers as well?
Exactly. I saw the PC before reading that article as I said. I definitely wasn't even slightly concerned about what Moyes said. What he said was positive. I don't know why people are still shitting themselves over absolutely nothing.
That wasn't my point, I was addressing the argument about giving a youngster big wages and it setting a precedent. With Pogba, if the issue is playing time then I feel as a manager you have to judge whether the player has the talent to merit giving him games even if he isn't fully mature in order to keep him onside. Obviously because there are 11 places and a first team squad to deal with too, that opportunity is very limited and you have to be an exceptional youngster to merit it... in the position he played and with the talent he has, I think Fergie missed a trick big time by not making the boy feel included and valued here. Likewise we don't want that happening with Adnan, clearly the wings is a weak position for us, this year would be ideal in testing out whether this kids got the ability to make the wings his own... the needs to be protected bullshit doesn't wash with me, plenty of youngsters have made their mark at 18.. if he's got what it takes he'll be fine.. much worse to kill his enthusiasm, possibly lose him - all so we can keep Young and Valencia happy.
Keeping Adnan should be the priority here, as whether he goes on to make it big time or not... he's easily better than them two already.
Messi and Ronaldo played plenty as youngsters and they don't seem burnt out, though they'd be the first to be entitled to feeling that.
Zaha waiting fair enough, if Moyes feels his 'head has gone' or whatever the explanation is, fair enough... either way he'd have to battle Nani for that right-wing spot.
Adnan is a different case, his footballing maturity in terms of decision-making is ahead of most people in our first team squad. Reads the game exceptionally well, a player like that just needs to be given games, don't run them into the ground but make them feel appreciated, a balance between making them feel they can be something massive and keeping them humble at the same time. That balance needs to be addressed, if we treat young players like non-entities too much in the modern game, they're not going to want to play for us .. you have to play the game slightly and keep em sweet - be pragmatic especially with foreign youngsters who aren't as attached to the club.
You can almost guarantee that a few more people will ignore what we've said and shit themselves over the bloody newspaper article.
Edit: It only took 6 minutes.
That's just how we roll 'round here, dog. An inexplicable local custom, like the Castrillo de Murica baby-jumping.
Moyes: “We really think an awful lot of Adnan. He’s a Manchester United player and I’m sure he will be. We think this is the best place for producing and giving young players an opportunity. It’s part of my remit to promote young players and Adnan has been promoted already. The next part is to become a regular first team player. He’s keen to stay but he has some influences around him.”
feck this... he'll be another Pogba then..
feck this... he'll be another Pogba then..
Given our options on the wings he'd be mental to leave Utd.
He'll get games this year.
What other club, of Utds standing, could realistically offer him more opportunity than we can.
He'll get games this year.
What other club, of Utds standing, could realistically offer him more opportunity than we can.
I blame Will Absolute, the bad influence
Mend your speech a little, lest it may mar your fortunes.
That's what happens when they make phones that second guess you.
It's a good idea to read a few of the preceding posts before posting something "new".
Clever.
It's a good idea to read a few of the preceding posts before posting something "new".
keep this winking to yourself, I'm posting what I saw and thought it was ''new'' information. Besides, the quotes were not on this page, so I decided not to read the previous pages as on this page people were still discussing Moyes quote of ''things are moving along nicely''.
edit: maybe there was some discussion going on about it, but in the end of the day, who gives a feck. I'm sure you'll get over it.
It was a massive misjudgement on our part, there's no denying that. No one asks us to pay £20k a week to all youngsters but when you have a potentially great player who could be a solution to your main issue within your ranks you don't try to lowball them by offering them a smaller deal (we're not sure this is what happened though). And if our youth coaches couldn't see Pogba's potential then we have even more to worry about.
If we can't keep up with the way world has been developing then there's no point signing all these talented youngsters from across Europe as we won't be able to keep any. We'll end up producing top talent for clubs who aren't afraid to pay them fairly and play them more often.
He might be but am saying that the poster you quoted was right in saying that we should try and keep his dad and agent on our side, as it will help in the future as well. No matter if their influence is positive or not at this stage.
GM this is what you posted. Will and I have no idea if we are trying to keep them happy or not, but suggest we should do it. You seem to find this idea v.alien and dont know why as it makes perfect sense.
And this is what he posted. Which makes no sense because David Moyes said nothing wrong, didn't say anything to piss off Januzaj's dad and had no reason to keep his mouth shut when he only said positive things. So yeah, I stand by asking him what the feck he was on about because it makes absolutely no sense.
I don't know why you seem to think that I find the idea of keeping his dad happy as alien as I've suggested nothing of the sort, I merely pointed out that Moyes didn't say anything that would piss them off.
Fair enough. Should have read his first sentence a bit more closely but it was late at night so apologies.
For what its worth I do think moyes is handling this particular situation well and if he keeps janujaz as involved as he has so far for the rest of season he will sign the contract sooner rather than later.
Moyes said an entire summer our transfer dealings were moving along nicely aswell, he had confidence in Woodward ability to bring topclass players to this club and had no doubt he would succeed in that. We saw nothing an entire summer, until the last few days or even hours when the club was desperately trying to get atleast some deals done, and we ended up with an overpaid Fellaini that hardly can be labelled a top notch signing.
I have no trust in Moyes his words to be honest. Something is moving around Januzaj, and i'am in no way relaxed about it, i'll only be at ease if Adnan signs a new contract. If Juventus turns his manager(s) against us, things can get nasty, and if we lose this one, i'll never ever forgive Moyes for it.
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