Adnan Januzaj

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Yeah he could, I never denied that. But as a youngster would you prefer to develop at a club like United that have pedigree when nurturing young talents, or go to City (as some reports suggest) who have a reputation of signing young players, giving them huge sums and then let them rot on the bench?

The comparisons to Pogba, I'd currently place Pogba as the exception, not the rule.

Between us and City it's an obvious choice, their record with youth playeds has been pretty terrible. When teams lkke Juventus or Barcelona, both renowned for giving young players plenty of game time as well as top level training and access to modern facilities, come into frame it suddenly doesn't look that obvious though and this is the point here. He might leave for a club that's as well equipped towards turning him into a star as we are, in pursuit of better contract to an extent.
 
I think the fact that he is ALREADY starting and being used quite a bit in the first team here, is enough to make him forget about any money issues, or moving to another club.

Sure if he was not getting played like Pogba I would maybe be worried, but the kid is arguably first pick on the wing with Nani right now. If he moved to Barcelona or Juve he would have to start all over again, and he sure as hell wont find it easier to make a name for himself at Barca.
 
Your posts are big b82.

1) Pogba debacle has not shown us in a good light. You can put any spin on it, but that can't change.

2) We should be able to match what the likes of Juventus or Barcelona are offering the youngsters. If City come in for him, then we will obviously need to draw a line somewhere, but if we end up losing him to a non-Sheik club than questions need to be asked. I don't think we'll disagree on this point. For what it's worth, I think he'll sign.

3) Comparisons with Welbeck and Cleverley are void, they are local lads and never had potentially the whole of Europe after their signatures.
 

Slight typo - meant to say i dont think the situations are comparable from the players point of view. Pogba was clearly concerned about playing time, whereas Januzaj seems settled from that perspective - probably because he was given a chance in 1st team. Pogba, well, aside from most of us believing he should have been given more of an opportunity, the facts are his attitude deteriorated and his performances for the reserves along with it. SAF didnt feel he could then "reward" that with a 1st team opportunity.

Anyhoo, back on the young Belgian/Albanian/Turk/English, there are stories going round about his father/agent having "a clear plan" for his career. The influence being exerted is similar to the Pogba case. Thats all i was really saying.
 
The policy of not allowing young players and their agents dictate to the club and hold them to ransom. I find it admirable that we still have morals around this area. Give an inch and they'll take a mile. We have this polcy so we don't have our pants pulled down in negotiations in the future.

My point had nothing to do with any of that. It's about standing up to an agent.

When you start allowing youth players demand what they want it opens the floodgates and it'd only be a matter of time until reserve players were making similar demands.

What's the point of 'standing up' to agents? He'll merely take his client elsewhere, where he'll be given what he's worth. And if we stand up to the agent of the next young super talent who comes down the pike, the same thing will happen again.

One of the biggest reasons old established businesses fail is inability to adapt, to recognise the need for change. Football has changed a lot in recent years, and, if we want to continue to be successful, we have to change with it. Forget about how we used to handle young players in the good old days, and ask ourselves a simple question. What is Januzaj worth? -what would we pay if we were buying him from another club? The answer to that question should be our starting point.
 
Your posts are big b82.

1) Pogba debacle has not shown us in a good light. You can put any spin on it, but that can't change.

2) We should be able to match what the likes of Juventus or Barcelona are offering the youngsters. If City come in for him, then we will obviously need to draw a line somewhere, but if we end up losing him to a non-Sheik club than questions need to be asked. I don't think we'll disagree on this point. For what it's worth, I think he'll sign.

3) Comparisons with Welbeck and Cleverley are void, they are local lads and never had potentially the whole of Europe after their signatures.

1) I'm more than happy with the light we are in since Pogba. A lot of people are butthurt we didn't offer him what he wanted, but at the time he simply wasn't worth it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Again had he signed on lower wages than he wanted he would have increased them sooner rather than later when his performances warranted it. As Fergie said at the time, "at United the money finds you eventually".

2) We don't know what these clubs are willing to offer. We may all make identical offers and Januzaj may choose he prefers Turin or Barcelona. Offering him terms that in way excess of what he's worth should not be thr route we take. Our club is built on tradition, if players don't respect or understand the tradition we're best off without them.

3) I don't think locality has any real baring. Plus Cleverley is from Bradford. At the time both players were courted by British teams after impressing on loan. They like Januzay were products of our academy so I feel comparisons are apt.
 
What's the point of 'standing up' to agents? He'll merely take his client elsewhere, where he'll be given what he's worth. And if we stand up to the agent of the next young super talent who comes down the pike, the same thing will happen again.

One of the biggest reasons old established businesses fail is inability to adapt, to recognise the need for change. Football has changed a lot in recent years, and, if we want to continue to be successful, we have to change with it. Forget about how we used to handle young players in the good old days, and ask ourselves a simple question. What is Januzaj worth? -what would we pay if we were buying him from another club? The answer to that question should be our starting point.

Such a defeatist attitude. The day agents dictate and essentially control clubs like United is the day the sport dies. Too many teams have given into them and agents are now becoming more of a force in world football, which is ruining huge aspects of it.
 
Such a defeatist attitude. The day agents dictate and essentially control clubs like United is the day the sport dies. Too many teams have given into them and agents are now becoming more of a force in world football, which is ruining huge aspects of it.

But as you point out, many top clubs are already giving these agents what they want. If we stand alone against this then we are standing still in a world that is moving in away from us.

Very difficult situation. Unfortunately, agents are a necessary evil right now and we will need to play ball as things stand in order to remain at the top table.

We all wish the name of Manchester United was enough. The reality is it's not anymore - for most players that is
 
1) I'm more than happy with the light we are in since Pogba. A lot of people are butthurt we didn't offer him what he wanted, but at the time he simply wasn't worth it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Again had he signed on lower wages than he wanted he would have increased them sooner rather than later when his performances warranted it. As Fergie said at the time, "at United the money finds you eventually".

2) We don't know what these clubs are willing to offer. We may all make identical offers and Januzaj may choose he prefers Turin or Barcelona. Offering him terms that in way excess of what he's worth should not be thr route we take. Our club is built on tradition, if players don't respect or understand the tradition we're best off without them.

3) I don't think locality has any real baring. Plus Cleverley is from Bradford. At the time both players were courted by British teams after impressing on loan. They like Januzay were products of our academy so I feel comparisons are apt.

1) Good for you. Not so good for our midfield sadly, and sadly the talented youngsters now feel that they can earn more elsewhere while getting more opportunities to play.

2) Again the cliched response. We're not best off if we don't evolve with the times!

3) Really? Neither were ever going to be courted by the clubs the size of Barcelona or Juventus. Playing for us and winning with us if what these lads have been dreaming about since they were kids. We are the pinnacle for them. Januzaj has no such links to the club. These are not comparable situations at all.
 
1) Good for you. Not so good for our midfield sadly, and sadly the talented youngsters now feel that they can earn more elsewhere while getting more opportunities to play.

2) Again the cliched response. We're not best off if we don't evolve with the times!

3) Really? Neither were ever going to be courted by the clubs the size of Barcelona or Juventus. Playing for us and winning with us if what these lads have been dreaming about since they were kids. We are the pinnacle for them. Januzaj has no such links to the club. These are not comparable situations at all.

Is there any real evidence Barca are interested or is just sensationalism because his contract is running down? I know Juve have expressed some interest but again people are just assuming Januzaj will do a Pogba on us. Their situations are completely different.

You clearly have the mindset of give him what he wants as he's such mercurial talent we simply cannot afford to lose. That simply isn't the case. We've lost better players, players that have influenced more than one game and we've always moved on.

We're never going to agree, but I find this stance of "we must tie him down at all cost," a little pathetic.
 
This thread has gone to shit. I miss the days when he was in the youth team and these stupid debates didn't take place.

But to add to the shitness with more shitness, it doesn't set a bad precedent if we offer him a good contract ffs. And it's not just about 1 game, even though he's played a couple more. It's about him being the best player in the u18s by far, got promoted to the u21s and being the best player by far, getting promoted to the first team and still out shining people on the pitch.

He's worthy of a decent contract even if it's £30-40k IMO. If you've only watched him for 1 game them you might be more cautious, if you've watched him for 2 years then you'd feel more confident with his talent. He's not just going to turn to shit if he gets offered a decent contract and £20k for his talent is a steal.

He's completely different to Pogba, Pogba had attitude. It was clear as day watching him in his last season of reserves that he had attitude, well maybe you'd call it impatience and not attitude. Either way, he wasn't grateful to be here, whereas Adnan seemed shocked when he got his 25 minute cameo let alone getting a start.

He's going to take the premier league by storm if (and I'm confident that he will) he continues the way he will and there's no reason why he can't go on to be one of the best players in the world IF he continues the way he is doing.

But some people don't want to offer him a decent contract because it sets a bad precedent to all the other youngsters who aren't even in his league? This boy will be a PFA young player of the year nominee this season if Moyes keeps giving him chances, I'd like to see any of our other youngsters try and do that and then talk to me about bad precedents.
 
You clearly have the mindset of give him what he wants as he's such mercurial talent we simply cannot afford to lose. That simply isn't the case. We've lost better players, players that have influenced more than one game and we've always moved on.

We're never going to agree, but I find this stance of "we must tie him down at all cost," a little pathetic.

Did you not read when I pointed out in my previous post that a line has to be drawn somewhere? The question is where we draw the line. And make no mistake, Januzaj is a special player. If Juventus or Barcelona are going to give him £X per week, they aren't just going to give him that, they will give him that because they think he'll be worth it. Barcelona link seems to be speculation, but Juventus one is genuine.
 
But some people don't want to offer him a decent contract because it sets a bad precedent to all the other youngsters who aren't even in his league? This boy will be a PFA young player of the year nominee this season if Moyes keeps giving him chances, I'd like to see any of our other youngsters try and do that and then talk to me about bad precedents.

Pogba set a good precedent according to b82REZ. Someone needs to tell our midfield that. And if Januzaj goes, we can set another good precedent by having players like Young and Valencia gracing our wings for another season because they want to be here, because we have never ever had players play for us who'd rather be elsewhere.
 
This thread has gone to shit. I miss the days when he was in the youth team and these stupid debates didn't take place.

But to add to the shitness with more shitness, it doesn't set a bad precedent if we offer him a good contract ffs. And it's not just about 1 game, even though he's played a couple more. It's about him being the best player in the u18s by far, got promoted to the u21s and being the best player by far, getting promoted to the first team and still out shining people on the pitch.

He's worthy of a decent contract even if it's £30-40k IMO. If you've only watched him for 1 game them you might be more cautious, if you've watched him for 2 years then you'd feel more confident with his talent. He's not just going to turn to shit if he gets offered a decent contract and £20k for his talent is a steal.

He's completely different to Pogba, Pogba had attitude. It was clear as day watching him in his last season of reserves that he had attitude, well maybe you'd call it impatience and not attitude. Either way, he wasn't grateful to be here, whereas Adnan seemed shocked when he got his 25 minute cameo let alone getting a start.

He's going to take the premier league by storm if (and I'm confident that he will) he continues the way he will and there's no reason why he can't go on to be one of the best players in the world IF he continues the way he is doing.

But some people don't want to offer him a decent contract because it sets a bad precedent to all the other youngsters who aren't even in his league? This boy will be a PFA young player of the year nominee this season if Moyes keeps giving him chances, I'd like to see any of our other youngsters try and do that and then talk to me about bad precedents.

Exactly right. He's been head and shoulders above those alongside him in youth and reserves since we bought him in 2011.

He's worth it. Hence my annoyance if we are haggling over £20k per week and a £100k bonus to the agent.
 
Exactly right. He's been head and shoulders above those alongside him in youth and reserves since we bought him in 2011.

He's worth it. Hence my annoyance if we are haggling over £20k per week and a £100k bonus to the agent.

The way he has stepped up through the ranks is amazing. He has never looked out of place anywhere when making the step up from academy to reserves, or from the reserves to the first team. I try to watch the reserve matches but I don't usually watch the academy games, but I tried to watch them whenever Januzaj used to play. Special player.
 
The way he has stepped up through the ranks is amazing. He has never looked out of place anywhere when making the step up from academy to reserves, or from the reserves to the first team. I try to watch the reserve matches but I don't usually watch the academy games, but I tried to watch them whenever Januzaj used to play. Special player.

Watched him right from the start in the youth games. He played wide right a lot and he just seemed to glide past people from a standing point. I hadnt seen quality like it in a while (Ravel aside).

He's going to be a top player. We have to retain him for his quality alone, nevermind what it says about us as a club if we let him go.
 
Watched him right from the start in the youth games. He played wide right a lot and he just seemed to glide past people from a standing point. I hadnt seen quality like it in a while (Ravel aside).

He's going to be a top player. We have to retain him for his quality alone, nevermind what it says about us as a club if we let him go.

That was the time when Silva was taking the league by storm in the first half of 2011-12. Januzaj reminded me exactly of him at that time. We have let some quality youngsters like Pique and Rossi leave in the past, but their paths to the first team were blocked so we never really felt the pain. But there is a case to be made that Januzaj deserves to be starting right now, which is simply amazing for an eighteen year old at a club the size of United.
 
Is there any real evidence Barca are interested or is just sensationalism because his contract is running down? I know Juve have expressed some interest but again people are just assuming Januzaj will do a Pogba on us. Their situations are completely different.

You clearly have the mindset of give him what he wants as he's such mercurial talent we simply cannot afford to lose. That simply isn't the case. We've lost better players, players that have influenced more than one game and we've always moved on.

We're never going to agree, but I find this stance of "we must tie him down at all cost," a little pathetic.


It'll be interesting if you hold that opinion in around 5 years time, when the lad could realistically be one of the best players in the world.
 
That was the time when Silva was taking the league by storm in the first half of 2011-12. Januzaj reminded me exactly of him at that time. We have let some quality youngsters like Pique and Rossi leave in the past, but their paths to the first team were blocked so we never really felt the pain. But there is a case to be made that Januzaj deserves to be starting right now, which is simply amazing for an eighteen year old at a club the size of United.

Pique and Rossi are interesting cases.

Pique wasnt given enough of a chance but he had Rio/Vidic in their prime in front of him. Rossi, quite simply, didnt take the chances that came his way. He probably merited more of a chance but he didnt do enough when he was given opportunities. Attitude took a turn for the worse in his last few months (probably cause he knew he had a decision to make).

Januzaj is a ridiculous talent. He will be a star. You're right, to be commanding a starting spot at Utd at his age if frightening....not as much as the fact that he will get better.
 
Pique and Rossi are interesting cases.

Pique wasnt given enough of a chance but he had Rio/Vidic in their prime in front of him. Rossi, quite simply, didnt take the chances that came his way. He probably merited more of a chance but he didnt do enough when he was given opportunities. Attitude took a turn for the worse in his last few months (probably cause he knew he had a decision to make).

Januzaj is a ridiculous talent. He will be a star. You're right, to be commanding a starting spot at Utd at his age if frightening....not as much as the fact that he will get better.

The re-writting of history in this thread continues. Pique left for personal reasons. He was always heading back to Barca. His family ties to the club etc. He has said as much since he left.
 
And Rossi wasn't given his chance after he went on loan to Parma and did really well for them. That summer he came back to United and then we signed Tevez on top of all our other strikers. Rossi left, and shortly into the season Solskjaer retired so he might have had more chances.
 
Is there any real evidence Barca are interested or is just sensationalism because his contract is running down? I know Juve have expressed some interest but again people are just assuming Januzaj will do a Pogba on us. Their situations are completely different.

You clearly have the mindset of give him what he wants as he's such mercurial talent we simply cannot afford to lose. That simply isn't the case. We've lost better players, players that have influenced more than one game and we've always moved on.

We're never going to agree, but I find this stance of "we must tie him down at all cost," a little pathetic.

Pathetic? No what is pathetic is letting a player of that quality go, only to spend 15 odd million on a player of less quality and give him higher wages than the lad you let go was asking for.

What's the point in having a fecking yout system if you let the best talent do one? and why? because you think it sets an example to offer a very talented kid a decent package? Me arse.

This boy is a class act and those who have watched him the last 2 years can testify to that. He's better than any of our other wide options...and he is technically not even a winger!

Play him, offer him a good weekly wage as reward and watch him get better and better. Alternatively don't bother, offer him 10 grand a week and watch him tear it up for our rivals/Barca/Madrid while we watch another two fecking seasons of Valencia and Young.
 
I was such a Rossi fanboy, was gutted when we sold him. Still think he could have been played a big role in our first team, as Hernandez does now.
 
Pathetic? No what is pathetic is letting a player of that quality go, only to spend 15 odd million on a player of less quality and give him higher wages than the lad you let go was asking for.

What's the point in having a fecking yout system if you let the best talent do one? and why? because you think it sets an example to offer a very talented kid a decent package? Me arse.

This boy is a class act and those who have watched him the last 2 years can testify to that. He's better than any of our other wide options...and he is technically not even a winger!

Play him, offer him a good weekly wage as reward and watch him get better and better. Alternatively don't bother, offer him 10 grand a week and watch him tear it up for our rivals/Barca/Madrid while we watch another two fecking seasons of Valencia and Young.

What?

What I find pathetic is people are willing to completely forget our heritage around developing youth and how we reward them just to offer Januzaj massive sums. If we begin to let youth players dictate their terms, or allow an intermediary to do so sets a terrible precedent. Let's say we cave to his demands what kind of position does that put us in future negotiations? The club have to retain control while negotaiting a deal that suits both parties. This isn't even considering the effects that will have on other promising youth players we might have when they come to renewing contracts.

I have no doubt Adnan will sign, but the hyperbole around his ability is getting ridiculous. He's very talented, and has shown promise since arriving. However that is not a guarantee of future success. Football is littered with players who looked like world beaters who disappeared into obscurity. All it takes is a leg break which hampers his progress and he doesn't quite reach the standard we hope he will. This is why it's important not to get bent over in negotiations. He's a young lad, who is still growing. Injuries will occur as will drops in form. It's how he handles these problems that will dictate how good he'll eventually become. It's too soon to be making the sweeping statements of success and offer him what he wants because he'll be worth ten times that in 5 years. There is no guarantee he'll reach that standard. The club are aware of this and will offer him terms which are more than adequate for a lad his age.

To avoid sounding like a broken record, Welbeck and Cleverley are the blueprint of the contracts and subsequent improved contracts we offer to youth products. We may offer him slightly more than normal but there's no way we will completely change our policy regarding youth to sign him up. People need to realise this.
 
What?

What I find pathetic is people are willing to completely forget our heritage around developing youth and how we reward them just to offer Januzaj massive sums. If we begin to let youth players dictate their terms, or allow an intermediary to do so sets a terrible precedent. Let's say we cave to his demands what kind of position does that put us in future negotiations? The club have to retain control while negotaiting a deal that suits both parties. This isn't even considering the effects that will have on other promising youth players we might have when they come to renewing contracts.


Okay, I have to intervene because you're talking so much nonsense. Youth player dictate their terms? The same youth player, who's a first team player now and is the reason we won our last game? Some youth player that is.

You need to get this youth player business out of your head, he's a first team player now and deserves to be on first team wages. That doesn't mean we're going to chuck £100k at him. But £20k for him is a fecking steal. He's not going to be getting a youth contract now, and if the other promising youth players want to take Januzaj into account when they negotiate their new contracts then they best bloody hope they've also broken into the first team as well.
 
The thing is, I think if you can tie them down to the first contract then they'll get a proper taste of what it's like to play here and really settle in, making it that bit easier to negotiate future contracts.

Give him a decent wage and make sure he commits here. If he's still not sure of where he wants to be by the next deal, sell him and at least get a few mill.
 
The re-writting of history in this thread continues. Pique left for personal reasons. He was always heading back to Barca. His family ties to the club etc. He has said as much since he left.

Think you misunderstand me - i didnt say he left because he wasnt given chances. I pointed out we never really seen any of him due to Rio/Vidic.

The whole world knows he left because it was Barca and his hometown club.
 
Okay, I have to intervene because you're talking so much nonsense. Youth player dictate their terms? The same youth player, who's a first team player now and is the reason we won our last game? Some youth player that is.

You need to get this youth player business out of your head, he's a first team player now and deserves to be on first team wages. That doesn't mean we're going to chuck £100k at him. But £20k for him is a fecking steal. He's not going to be getting a youth contract now, and if the other promising youth players want to take Januzaj into account when they negotiate their new contracts then they best bloody hope they've also broken into the first team as well.

One game in the first team does not make him a first team player. Majority are basing their decisions on that, I, like yourself have watched him develop through the ranks so don't try and take some high ground based on that like you often do.

I've never doubted in relative terms 20k seems a steal, but hypothetically if we are only willing to offer 10k and he demands 20k, that is essentially a reserve/youth team player dictating terms. The thing I am against.

Get off you high horse about Januzaj. He will be offered what the club believe him to be worth and stop making ridiculous statemets that he's a first teamer now because of one full debut and a couple of substitue appearances. If contract talk don't progress he'll be no where near the first team come Xmas.
 
One game in the first team does not make him a first team player. Majority are basing their decisions on that, I, like yourself have watched him develop through the ranks so don't try and take some high ground based on that like you often do.

I've never doubted in relative terms 20k seems a steal, but hypothetically if we are only willing to offer 10k and he demands 20k, that is essentially a reserve/youth team player dictating terms. The thing I am against.

Get off you high horse about Januzaj. He will be offered what the club believe him to be worth and stop making ridiculous statemets that he's a first teamer now because of one full debut and a couple of substitue appearances. If contract talk don't progress he'll be no where near the first team come Xmas.

I think you're the one on a high horse here. The world and his dog can see he's a first team player now, that doesn't mean I expect him t start every game but he's part of the first team squad which makes him a first team player.

The world and his dog will be watching him now, and for the sake of £500k a bloody year, no I would not want to lose him to another team. Besides which he's easily worth £20k, especially if that's what was being offered to Pogba. I don't get why you feel he's only worth a £10k contract.
 
I think you're the one on a high horse here. The world and his dog can see he's a first team player now, that doesn't mean I expect him t start every game but he's part of the first team squad which makes him a first team player.

The world and his dog will be watching him now, and for the sake of £500k a bloody year, no I would not want to lose him to another team. Besides which he's easily worth £20k, especially if that's what was being offered to Pogba. I don't get why you feel he's only worth a £10k contract.

Do you understand the word hypothetically?

I have never put a price on what I believe him to be worth, that decision will be made by the club. Seems everyone has taken what I said literally and have knee jerked as Adnan is the new flavour of the month. As it stands I wouldn't class his as first team, same way I didn't with Macheda. If he gets 20+appearances this season then he's a first team player.
 
Do you understand the word hypothetically?

I have never put a price on what I believe him to be worth, that decision will be made by the club. Seems everyone has taken what I said literally and have knee jerked as Adnan is the new flavour of the month. As it stands I wouldn't class his as first team, same way I didn't with Macheda. If he gets 20+appearances this season then he's a first team player.

Him and Macheda are 2 completely different people and scenarios. Januzaj isn't just the flavour of the month, it's clear as day that he's a first team player now, why are you disputing this and wanting to give him a youth contract?
 
Why the feck do you even care what we're willing to give him? If he club feel he's worth a certain amount to keep him, that's fine by me.
 
I think you're the one on a high horse here. The world and his dog can see he's a first team player now, that doesn't mean I expect him t start every game but he's part of the first team squad which makes him a first team player.

The world and his dog will be watching him now, and for the sake of £500k a bloody year, no I would not want to lose him to another team. Besides which he's easily worth £20k, especially if that's what was being offered to Pogba. I don't get why you feel he's only worth a £10k contract.

If he keeps up his performance levels he will be starting on our wings by Christmas, however at the moment he's a squad player at best.
 
Him and Macheda are 2 completely different people and scenarios. Januzaj isn't just the flavour of the month, it's clear as day that he's a first team player now, why are you disputing this and wanting to give him a youth contract?

Stop making things up and putting words in my mouth, I have never said only give him a youth contract. Plus he's too fecking old for a youth contract. I remember when you in the newbs and you used to make the same fervent claims about Ravel Morrison. I told you why I don't consider him a first team player yet, mainly the fact he's played the equivalent of a full 90minutes in his collective outings.

How is this nothing like Macheda? Two young players, impressed on their debuts, had the fans creaming over them.

You're starting to make yourself look a little foolish because you've either not read what I've put or have reacted badly because you think I'm denigrating Januzaj.
 
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