Adam Johnson found guilty of one count of sexual activity with a child | Sentenced to six years

[...aka Las Cortinas]

You acknowledge that shat a 15 year old is nothing but an impressionable teenager, yet see no problem with a 28 year old man using his status as her idol to form and encourage a relationship with her that eventually led to sexual activity that he was fully aware she couldn't legally consent to. You're a clown.

Name calling because somebody holds a different opinion? I think it's clear who the clown is, sweetheart.

You have put words in my mouth to suit your righteous agenda. I clearly said he's a cnut, didn't I, or did you not see that bit?... and I'd kill him if the girl was my daughter. However, in my opinion- and it's my fecking opinion, so please feel free to feck right off if you don't like it- a six year sentence is harsh.

 

[mancan92]

The reason why people complain about this Johnson sentencing is because you have situations like this
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/babysitter-who-sex-11-year-6586886

From a woman which is worse than what Johnson did but got away with it because she's a woman.

Men have always been far harshly trialed compared to women. I know quite a few people who had sex with the school teachers. It's just very obvious that perception of men is always worse.

 

[George Owen]

Right, so under your law a 26 year old would be able to have sex with a 14 year old without facing any consequences. Then what happens if someone gets a big sentence for sleeping with a girl who is 13 year 11 months old? Surely the law would be "stupid" in that case too?

it would be less stupid though. 2 years less stupid.

 

[RedChip]

lower the age of consent to 14 seems about right. Its just sex ffs.

There is nothing wrong with it. Only because society makes it look like the worst of all evils, that poor kid will be traumatized for life (hopefully not).

If the people around her wouldn't have started bullying her (maybe because of jealousy?), this mediatic show wouldn't exist. She was okay with it. Outside pressure make her change her view on the matter.

edit. sexual education is where you should put your chips. Not punishment for natural conducts.

By all accounts, she was; she was further victimised by social media idiots when he, for a long while, denied the allegation. So, presumably, the judge took that in account when sentencing.

 

[ivaldo]

No, you're punishing an adult who's responsible for his actions and the consequences these actions have for the victim. The consequences always matter. They vary in all cases for different reasons, but they can never be ignored.

You're punishing someone for breaking the law, the law dictates the length of the sentence. He wasn’t exactly in a position of trust. When a female teaching assistant who had sex with a 15 year old boy over 50 times gets a suspended sentence, you know there's something not quite right.

Just to clarifying I'm not stating his sentence should be any less than he got, I'm saying he should get a comparably fair sentence.

 

[sullydnl]

it would be less stupid though. 2 years less stupid.

Then why not reduce it to 13 then? That would be three years less stupid, no?

You have to draw the line somewhere, which inevitably means there will be "stupid" laws. You also have to protect people who *think* they're okay with having sex with an older person from being exploited, which also leads to "stupid" laws. In both cases "stupid" actually means "imperfect", which is the nature of the legal system.

 

[hobbers]

I'm not defending his actions, i just find it slightly bizarre that anyone reckons 6 years is a fair punishment for consensual interactions.

Agree with this.

6 years seems ludicrous for someone who is neither a paedophile, a rapist or someone who committed sexual assault.

Don't even need to imagine how light the sentence would have been if the genders were reversed, the police almost certainly wouldn't have even bothered pursuing it.

 

[montpelier]

Johnson knew what the law was, and carried on, knowing she was underage.

Ain't no leeway in that, he took it away from himself.

 

[sullydnl]

The reason why people complain about this Johnson sentencing is because you have situations like this
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/babysitter-who-sex-11-year-6586886

From a woman which is worse than what Johnson did but got away with it because she's a woman.

Men have always been far harshly trialed compared to women. I know quite a few people who had sex with the school teachers. It's just very obvious that perception of men is always worse.

I've seen a few guys bring up this point. I've also seen a few guys say things like "I would've been delighted to sleep with a teacher when I was 14." Which is probably why men don't get treated as victims in the same way. Maybe that attitude is the problem rather than the punishment men get when they're the guilty party.

After all, why would you expect consistency in sentencing when there obviously isn't consistency in our attitude towards the crime?

 

[ivaldo]

I've seen a few guys bring up this point. I've also seen a few guys say things like "I would've been delighted to sleep with a teacher when I was 14." Which is probably why men don't get treated as victims in the same way. Maybe that attitude is the problem rather than the punishment men get when they're the guilty party.

So you're saying a woman couldn't possibly have the same view point in this situation as a man? You're condoning punishment based on a majority as opposed to being viewed on an individual basis? It's a form of sexual discrimination, apparently men aren't allowed to be upset by that though.

 

[Penna]

Johnson knew what the law was, and carried on, knowing she was underage.

Ain't no leeway in that, he took it away from himself.

Agree. He actually asked her how old she was on his messages to her, and then commented that she looked older when she told him she was 15. He completely disregarded her age and continued with the grooming.

 

[Parry Gallister]

You have to draw the line somewhere. 16 is as good a place as any, at 15 she may have been mature enough mentally or whatever but at 15 but there's plenty who aren't. Can feel for him as human who's life is ruined and can't say i like the witch-hunter aspects of the case, but he wasn't deceived, he knew her age and still went through with it, can't really argue with him facing the consequences.

 

[acnumber9]

I've seen a few guys bring up this point. I've also seen a few guys say things like "I would've been delighted to sleep with a teacher when I was 14." Which is probably why men don't get treated as victims in the same way. Maybe that attitude is the problem rather than the punishment men get when they're the guilty party.

After all, why would you expect consistency in sentencing when there obviously isn't consistency in our attitude towards the crime?

That's assuming that aren't girls/women who felt the same way.

 

[sullydnl]

So you're saying a woman couldn't possibly have the same view point in this situation as a man? You're condoning punishment based on a majority as opposed to being viewed on an individual basis? It's a form of sexual discrimination, apparently men aren't allowed to be upset by that though.

No, I'm not saying that at all. Of course she could.

I'm saying our reluctance to treat men as victims in these situations is the problem that leads to the differences in punishment for male/female perpetrators, not an over-willingness to treat girls as victims.

So instead of saying "men get sentenced too harshly, a lot of 14 year old boys would love to sleep with an older woman, so the same can obviously apply to a 14 year old girl", maybe we should be saying "women don't get sentenced harshly enough, a lot 14 year old girls can be taken advantage of by older men, so the same can obviously apply to a 14 year old boy".

 

[ivaldo]

No, I'm not saying that at all. Of course she could.

I'm saying our reluctance to treat men as victims in these situations is the problem that leads to the differences in punishment for male/female perpetrators, not an over-willingness to treat girls as victims.

So instead of saying "men get sentenced too harshly, a lot of 14 year old boys would love to sleep with an older woman, so the same can obviously apply to a 14 year old girl", maybe we should be saying "women don't get sentenced harshly enough, a lot 14 year old girls can be taken advantage of by older men, so the same can obviously apply to a 14 year old boy".

Either way, the point is the same. It isn't just in regard to sexual relations either, its sentencing across all crimes. Some studies have made that difference to be 63%, which is incredible.

 

[Enigma_87]

I've seen a few guys bring up this point. I've also seen a few guys say things like "I would've been delighted to sleep with a teacher when I was 14." Which is probably why men don't get treated as victims in the same way. Maybe that attitude is the problem rather than the punishment men get when they're the guilty party.

After all, why would you expect consistency in sentencing when there obviously isn't consistency in our attitude towards the crime?

Probably has to do with generally men able to overpower the woman and not vice versa. From personal point of view I had experience with older woman (like 33 or something) when I was around 17 but never felt I could be a victim of some sort. There's no equality there as regardless of whether the difference was that big I'd be always stronger than her which surely has to weight in.

In the same sense as an active athlete at the time and at 15 I doubt physically it would be different. Of course by law illegal and the woman will get prosecuted as there is no sex differential but morally and how it is perceived probably naturally won't be treated the same way by society.

There's also possibility of empowering not only physically but with other methods but we'll digress if we get into this one.

 

[Alex99]

Name calling because somebody holds a different opinion? I think it's clear who the clown is, sweetheart.

You have put words in my mouth to suit your righteous agenda. I clearly said he's a cnut, didn't I, or did you not see that bit?... and I'd kill him if the girl was my daughter. However, in my opinion- and it's my fecking opinion, so please feel free to feck right off if you don't like it- a six year sentence is harsh.

I've not put any words into your mouth. You've made your own bed, so lie in it.

Your stance is ludicrous and indicative of wider sexist attitudes.

 

[RamblingRebel]

Digital penetration? Does that mean he hacked her computer?

Fair play to the lad, most footballers come across as being quite dumb. Maybe he got a career in IT when he done his sentence.

 

[Stack]

Why then, a 13yo boy delinquent can be sent to juvy (and get assraped in the process) if he doesn't know what the feck he is doing?

nah man... as i said, laws are made by men and can be quite stupid sometimes.

a 15 year old girl knows exactly what she is doing getting in a car with an older dude. "lower the age of consent to 14 seems about right. Its just sex ffs.

"

This smacks of the "she was wearing a tight skirt and was asking for it" or the "old enough to bleed old enough to butcher" attitude.

Laws are put in place to protect children from outside dangers. They are also there to protect them from themselves. A 15 year old girl does NOT know exactly what she is doing. A 15 year old girl has not yet learned a few life lessons which would enable her to be able to spot when she is being groomed or manipulated by an older person.
I think you need to go look at what happened in the case, Johnson very clearly groomed and manipulated a minor for purposes of sexual activity. The sentence may or may not be too harsh but whats not up for debate is that a minor was manipulated and groomed. He wasnt jailed just for "fingering a 15 year old" but for the manner with which he went about the whole thing and his actions.

Children need protection.
You clearly dont have or never have had a daughter.

 

[2 man midfield]

With the whole age debate, you need a line in the sand for the purposes of consistency obviously. But the problem is, not everyone is the same. So you need to protect the more vulnerable. It's better to have a higher age of consent and protect those not ready, than lower it and risk all sorts of unethical yet legal exploitation.

I think part of the problem lies in that we're looking at this in black and white terms, which it simply isn't. On the one hand you have '6 years is too harsh for something that was completely consensual' and on the other, 'He knew how old she was. Cold blooded child sex offender grooms defenceless young girl' The reality lies somewhere in between. The factors which can mitigate the sentence in such cases were well stacked against Johnson. Whether she wanted it to happen or not, the problem is so did he. And he's the one expected to have the presence of mind to realise such an act is incredibly stupid.

 

[Randall Flagg]

I don't have any sypathy for him as he knew her age and the law

But cmon a 15 year old knows what's going on..think back to when you were 15

 

[...aka Las Cortinas]

I've not put any words into your mouth. You've made your own bed, so lie in it.

Your stance is ludicrous and indicative of wider sexist attitudes.

Ah, you're that weird, little feminist fella aren't you, now I remember.

I stand by every word I said you bloody lunatic... but, you know, actually said...and not your pathetic agenda-driven version of what I said.

For clarity (repeating what I've actually said).


* 15 is an age in which the person is well aware of their actions and the consequence of them.

* She clearly was made up with what happened at the time.

* He took advantage of her because he's a scroaty little cnut.

* Six years is fecking harsh.

* Feminism is hilarious. Not the actual definition, but the militant interpretation of it from the likes of you.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Agree. He actually asked her how old she was on his messages to her, and then commented that she looked older when she told him she was 15. He completely disregarded her age and continued with the grooming.

He even asked her how school was in subsequent message! His psychological report was pretty damning. It painted him as an emotionally immature sexual deviant with a loose grip on sexual ethics. I think it is fair to say that he is a danger to the public.

 

[togg]

I think the sentence reflects certain things. He obviously knew what he was doing was wrong but continued to pursue it and planned it - he groomed. He then pleaded not guilty when he obviously was thus putting the young victim through a year of social media intimidation and abuse. He is perceived (right or wrongly) as some sort of sporting role model and abused that position. He has never apologised or apparently according to his conduct in court before, during and after, felt any remorse.

The problem I have with the length of the sentence is that the Judge has obviously been influenced by the huge media attention to this case and therefore the need to 'send a message'. This is not what sentencing is meant to be about. It's meant to be logical and in tune with other cases of a similar nature. As someone has already stated, the teacher who abducted an underage student and actually had full intercourse with on a fair number of occasions got 5.5 years. The length of Johnson's sentence doesn't tally. That is not to say he shouldn't have been jailed. I think everyone agrees with that. Its the length of the sentence that is in question. Rapist mostly get much less than this, even when it involves teens one year under the legal age of consent. I reckon that he will have this reduced under appeal to four years.

 

[Stack]

I don't have any sypathy for him as he knew her age and the law

But cmon a 15 year old knows what's going on..think back to when you were 15

Yeah and think back to exactly how aware of what all the ins and outs of whatever it was you were doing when you were 15. Sorry but the idea that a 15 year old knows exactly whats going on is simply ignoring the reality of life experience, the ability to recognise a situation for what it is and the need to protect people from themselves when they havent yet developed the ability to protect themselves. 15 is still a child, no matter how they look and no matter how the appear to be acting.

 

[Stack]

Ah, you're that weird, little feminist fella aren't you, now I remember.

I stand by every word I said you bloody lunatic... but, you know, actually said...and not your pathetic agenda-driven version of what I said.

For clarity (repeating what I've actually said).


* 15 is an age in which the person is well aware of their actions and the consequence of them.

* She clearly was made up with what happened at the time.

* He took advantage of her because he's a scroaty little cnut.

* Six years is fecking harsh.

* Feminism is hilarious. Not the actual definition, but the militant interpretation of it from the likes of you.

irony, you whine about someone name calling and then do it yourself.
15 is not an age where a person is well aware of their actions and consequence, people who think this are a long way removed from reality.

Exactly what did Alex say that is a militant interpretation of feminism?

 

[2 man midfield]

Yeah and think back to exactly how aware of what all the ins and outs of whatever it was you were doing when you were 15. Sorry but the idea that a 15 year old knows exactly whats going on is simply ignoring the reality of life experience, the ability to recognise a situation for what it is and the need to protect people from themselves when they havent yet developed the ability to protect themselves. 15 is still a child, no matter how they look and no matter how the appear to be acting.

I know 15 sounds quite old-ish, but have you seen a 15 year old girl lately? Younger looking than I remember. There's no way they are developed enough to be making decisions like that. And before anyone throws the age of consent argument at me, there's a world of difference between 15 year old Darren and a 30 year old man, and being aware of the fall out from either.

 

[...aka Las Cortinas]

irony, you whine about someone name calling and then do it yourself.
15 is not an age where a person is well aware of their actions and consequence, people who think this are a long way removed from reality.

That's not irony, that's hypocrisy.

Least you tried, eh?

 

[Randall Flagg]

Yeah and think back to exactly how aware of what all the ins and outs of whatever it was you were doing when you were 15. Sorry but the idea that a 15 year old knows exactly whats going on is simply ignoring the reality of life experience, the ability to recognise a situation for what it is and the need to protect people from themselves when they havent yet developed the ability to protect themselves. 15 is still a child, no matter how they look and no matter how the appear to be acting.

If that's the case the should raise it to 18

I barely changed mentally as a youth from 15 to 18


Youths generally change or mature when they leave school not when they turn a certain age.

 

[Stack]

That's not irony, that's hypocrisy.

Least you tried, eh?

Exactly what did Alex say thats a militant interpretation of feminism?

 

[Steven Seagull]

15 year olds know what they are doing but most of them are likely to make extremely stupid decisions and don't need dog nonces encouraging them to do it.

If you have a problem with the age of consent and think "well it's only a year short" then I don't know where you think it's acceptable to draw the line. If they lower it to 14 you'd have people complaining they can't digitally penetrate 13 year olds. I assume we've made the laws based on more than plucking a number out the air and personally think the age is about right

 

[Stack]

If that's the case the should raise it to 18

I barely changed mentally as a youth from 15 to 18


Youths generally change or mature when they leave school not when they turn a certain age.

Life experience kicks in, another reason why a 15 year old doesnt have enough experience to work out the rights or wrongs of a situation. A 15 year old is still at school, this girl certainly was.

 

[stepic]

lower the age of consent to 14 seems about right. Its just sex ffs.

There is nothing wrong with it. Only because society makes it look like the worst of all evils, that poor kid will be traumatized for life (hopefully not).

If the people around her wouldn't have started bullying her (maybe because of jealousy?), this mediatic show wouldn't exist. She was okay with it. Outside pressure make her change her view on the matter.

edit. sexual education is where you should put your chips. Not punishment for natural conducts.

And then when someone gets done with a girl 13 and 11 months you'll be crying foul too. 'Eh make it 11!'

 

[Randall Flagg]

Life experience kicks in, another reason why a 15 year old doesnt have enough experience to work out the rights or wrongs of a situation. A 15 year old is still at school, this girl certainly was.

I'm not really making an argument more looking at the law and how people perceive situations

15,16 or 17 at school I see very little difference

So if he had sex with a girl of any of those ages I wouldn't think any better or worse of him.

It's just funny how it is perceived more than anything. Waited 12 months nobody bats an eyelid. Don't wait 12 months and your life and career is down the shitter and you are public enemy number 1

I don't have sympathy for him but the sentence seems surprisingly long when I look at it like that

 

[Damien]

The Judge's remarks: https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/r-v-johnson-sentencing.pdf

I suggest people read through that.

 

[adexkola]

I think the judge was too zealous in his/her mission to make an example of Johnson. And that should not be a factor at all.

I also think the sentencing was overly harsh, given the girl's age age, and the fact the sexual act was not forced. Yes, technically, at her age she couldn't consent to sex, but there is a level of difference between what Johnson did, and a hypothetical where she was forcibly raped against her will.

The age limit is discrete because there needs to be a mark on the sand, but I find it callous of the judge to pretend there aren't degrees of separation from that line. 15 year girls are not entirely immature creatures when it comes to sex. No, it is not a hybrid version of "victim-blaming" to say that the interaction was two-way, and that she had a role to play.

Ultimately all legal responsibility falls on Johnson (as it should), he knew what he was doing going into it, and the result is his own fault 100%.

 

[Striker10]

People talking about lowering the age....he was as much turned on by the fact she was legally too young to have sex. What proof do you have, that wouldn't have been the case if she was ten. There is no proof. Saying it's 'only sex'..are really stupid. Yes, we need younger mothers! I do think it's a gray area. Some kids are MUCH more mature then some who are only adult by birth certificate. There should probably be some test whereby a child can understand all thats involved, the pitfalls etc. Done without some pervert government arm peeking in like dirty perverts. This case would be different if the player did not know her age. Maybe her parents should have gotten to know their child better (if possible), but crazy stuff. With satanists running amok, let's deal with them and not make it acceptable for children to be taken advantage of by lowering the age. Society has done a diabolical job with children.

 

[stepic]

Of course it's relevant. The 'victim' wasn't raped or forced. She happily (probably couldn't believe her luck) met with her idol. Lets not make out as though this was some powerless young child, or shall we all pretend the 15 year old versions of ourselves had the mentality of an infant?

He's a cnut for taking advantage of a impressionable teenager, but not a six year prison sentence cnut.

im not quite sure why you're so eager to defend someone who you acknowldge as a cnut and who's clearly abused an underage girl. How old are you btw? I mean I could see why younger people closer to the age of 15 may find this more bemusing than people going on 30.

 

[...aka Las Cortinas]

Exactly what did Alex say thats a militant interpretation of feminism?

I don't have time to time to quote nine thousand posts.

I think the judge was too zealous in his/her mission to make an example of Johnson. And that should not be a factor at all.

I also think the sentencing was overly harsh, given the girl's age age, and the fact the sexual act was not forced. Yes, technically, at her age she couldn't consent to sex, but there is a level of difference between what Johnson did, and a hypothetical where she was forcibly raped against her will.

The age limit is discrete because there needs to be a mark on the sand, but I find it callous of the judge to pretend there aren't degrees of separation from that line. 15 year girls are not entirely immature creatures when it comes to sex. No, it is not a hybrid version of "victim-blaming" to say that the interaction was two-way, and that she had a role to play.

Ultimately all legal responsibility falls on Johnson (as it should), he knew what he was doing going into it, and the result is his own fault 100%.

Solid post. A more reasoned version of what I was getting at.

 

[Stack]

I think the judge was too zealous in his/her mission to make an example of Johnson. And that should not be a factor at all.

I also think the sentencing was overly harsh, given the girl's age age, and the fact the sexual act was not forced. Yes, technically, at her age she couldn't consent to sex, but there is a level of difference between what Johnson did, and a hypothetical where she was forcibly raped against her will.

The age limit is discrete because there needs to be a mark on the sand, but I find it callous of the judge to pretend there aren't degrees of separation from that line. 15 year girls are not entirely immature creatures when it comes to sex. No, it is not a hybrid version of "victim-blaming" to say that the interaction was two-way, and that she had a role to play.

Ultimately all legal responsibility falls on Johnson (as it should), he knew what he was doing going into it, and the result is his own fault 100%.

The grooming of the girl is important. You are getting sidetracked by the technicality. Society has to protect those not yet fully able to protect themselves. ie: children. A 15 year old is a child, no matter how they look or try to act.