[Bebestation]

Wan Bissaka does make some defensive mistakes - but I don’t think he is completely useless at defending. He isn’t a Maldini but he does have some decent defensive ability alongside his one major ability.

ive seen him plenty of times where he is saving goals on the line due to him reading the attack.

 

[marcus agrippa]

He had such a colossal start with us. Felt like nobody could get past him at times and then his form completely fell off a cliff. Shame as I really rated him at one point but looks like he’s off

This is top level football, where the opponent literally pays people just to analyze your game down to the millimetre. Once they figured out what he's about, it was curtains. He was never that good to begin with, and then failed to adjust. Glad he's going.

Dalot isn't that great, either, but he has the basics for a team playing on the front foot, and I think ETH sees there's something there to work with.

 

[Greck]

His ball carrying is the most underrated part of his game. He is well capable of it. He is better than the majority of our fans say. Not being an aesthetically pleasing dribbler doesn't mean he can't do it. He is effective at it when playing well. I do think that we can do better, but this fanbase massively over exaggerates their negative opinion of him.

Are you joking with this? You know every technically questionable player has these? It's not something we'd be compiling in the first place.



The only thing these compilations prove is his family members do indeed believe he is good on the ball.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Ridiculous take. I wonder why Klopp or Pep bothered overhauling their squads.

You might want to read my post again and subsequent posts.

I am not expecting AWB to become good, I'm just putting a bit of faith into ETH because the alternative is Dalot, who after today's performance, further reiterates into my point that we'll have to make the best of what we got (as depressing as that sounds).

Btw Klopp made many average players turn into game raising cnuts and functional cogs into his teams before he's 'settled' on his squad as of today.

I do think we are putting too much faith in a new manager improving many of this squad.

A lot of our pplayers best versions of themselves are good players.....yet a lot of them at there best are still severely lacking in certain areas of there games.

There are quite a few have been here a long time when we have had Van Gaal who was a godo coach and tactiaian, Mourinho though outdated was and Rangnick was lauded tactically. And there has been a "with better coaching and management so and so can be a big player"......yet many have failed time and time again to progress. Yes there is a proportion of blame to the coaching, but I think we have reached the point with many where we simply have to be reaching the conclusion the players atttitude or ability all round is not good enough to wear the shirt and they have failed here.

I dont actually include Bissaka in that list, there are a few players I think can be improved with a quality new manager, Bissaka is kind of in between the two groups, but I think we are expecting too much in ETH with a lot of these players and keeping them just continues. The simple truth is many dont seem to have the intelligence and have weaknesses that hold them back from playing in a techcnical tactical system and no manager is going to change that

Agreed.

I'm not saying AWB is objectively a good player or that we should persevere with him until he comes good. It's just the likelihood is that we're not going to bring in a brilliant first choice right back, who will slot into the team seamlessly.

After the year/s we have had, I'm more than happy to put laughing emojis and call every player crap in their threads. However, we and ETH needs to be realistic because to improve the team, aside from tactics and transfers, he will definitely have to raise the bottom level of his existing squad.

AWB as much as I hate to say is one of those, who has that potential to meet a 'minimum' requirement until 1) he reaches a higher enough level to stay there or 2) we find a replacement.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He isn't that great.

He is miles better than Dalot though.

 

[klayton88]

Bye

 

[jesperjaap]

You might want to read my post again and subsequent posts.

I am not expecting AWB to become good, I'm just putting a bit of faith into ETH because the alternative is Dalot, who after today's performance, further reiterates into my point that we'll have to make the best of what we got (as depressing as that sounds).

Btw Klopp made many average players turn into game raising cnuts and functional cogs into his teams before he's 'settled' on his squad as of today.



Agreed.

I'm not saying AWB is objectively a good player or that we should persevere with him until he comes good. It's just the likelihood is that we're not going to bring in a brilliant first choice right back, who will slot into the team seamlessly.

After the year/s we have had, I'm more than happy to put laughing emojis and call every player crap in their threads. However, we and ETH needs to be realistic because to improve the team, aside from tactics and transfers, he will definitely have to raise the bottom level of his existing squad.

AWB as much as I hate to say is one of those, who has that potential to meet a 'minimum' requirement until 1) he reaches a higher enough level to stay there or 2) we find a replacement.

I thought he would be a great signing. I think his first season he did ok an dwas overly xriticised, thought he made some progress last year playing it simple going forward. Really thought this was a pivotal one in terms of his progression and sadly he has actually regressed, partly as the manaer seems to have no faith in him.

I think the time is probably right to go now but I still find it crazy Dalot has been starting over him and at periods gettign good reviews on here when he has been far worse than Bissaka and is also a far worse defender, his attacking is little better than Bissaka, his positioning just as bad and one on one tackling he is a million miles away. Also, half the right backs getting mentioned as replacements for him.... Djed SPence, Matty Cash for example....do they improve us in the position really....I am not so sure at all? Livaramento was the one for me and I do like Lamptey and think Gusto longer term will become a quality player, but like you seem to be hinting, not sure the answer is an easy one as I dotn see many options especially in terms fo value, sure there are a whoel host of names I am not even aware of but not been excited about most of the ones I know that I have seen named

 

[Doracle]

Am I right that wreck-it didn’t pick him again after the Liverpool match, when he actually did well at left back and Dalot was all kinds of awful? I don’t really think he’s good enough but he seems to have been treated really badly by Rangnick.

 

[GifLord]

Am I right that wreck-it didn’t pick him again after the Liverpool match, when he actually did well at left back and Dalot was all kinds of awful? I don’t really think he’s good enough but he seems to have been treated really badly by Rangnick.

 

[::sonny::]

After 804

 

[flappyjay]

Zaha had an enjoyable game because he was on the bench. The point of having a squad is knowing when to use some players and yesterday was a game for bissaka.

 

[Bebestation]

Zaha had an enjoyable game because he was on the bench. The point of having a squad is knowing when to use some players and yesterday was a game for bissaka.

This is why I wouldn’t mind him being one of our Bench players.

There is times when you don’t mind a player who makes it harder for an attacking winger.

 

[gajender]

Zaha had an enjoyable game because he was on the bench. The point of having a squad is knowing when to use some players and yesterday was a game for bissaka.

Sorry We need to get out of this mindset where you end being so worried even against average opposition that you change your line up , United should be able to impose themselves against any opposition atleast that should be the aim .

 

[Teja]

The continued selection of Dalot and Telles is a mystery to me. I don't think either is particularly good going forward and their attacking play most definitely does not compensate for their lack of defensive ability.

He is not good enough on the ball but he can be a very useful player for us. If palace want to throw good money at us to have him back then maybe he can leave but I'd rather keep him as an option on the bench rather than Dalot or Telles.

 

[Skills]

His play off the ball holds him back more than his on-ball ability.

He's just way too inactive when he doesn't have the ball, so you're basically down a player when he isn't showing for the ball. It's made worse by having McTominay often on the same side of the pitch.

 

[Kostov]

Selling AWB while keeping Dalot and Telles, would be a shocking decisions for me. For all his faults, AWB is actually miles better than Dalot.

 

[flappyjay]

Sorry We need to get out of this mindset where you end being so worried even against average opposition that you change your line up , United should be able to impose themselves against any opposition atleast that should be the aim .

You have to adapt to the situation and United went into that game with our gd at 1. What you are talking about is for next season, I am talking about this crap season.

 

[UncleBob]

Selling AWB while keeping Dalot and Telles, would be a shocking decisions for me. For all his faults, AWB is actually miles better than Dalot.

I assume the point would be to sell AWB, because we might get something for him, and replace him with a better player that will keep Dalot benched.

 

[Kostov]

I assume the point would be to sell AWB, because we might get something for him, and replace him with a better player that will keep Dalot benched.

I get your point, but rather keep AWB as the squad option instead of Dalot.

 

[Rozay]

Might be in a minority here, but Wan-Bissaka is a far better player than he gets credit for in my opinion, and is not even as bad going forward as has become some sort of stock.

He has unique 1v1 gifts, and in the right sort of team, I think he could be a major asset as first choice right back. And by right team, I mean a top one chasing trophies.

 

[Based Adnan]

You always get better the more you don't play

 

[spiriticon]

In a defensive team that plays a classic 4-4-2 with nearly everyone defending in the penalty area, this guy could excel.

But in a modern pressing system where we expect the wingbacks to do more nearer the halfway line, he's just not the right player.

 

[izec]

None of our fullbacks are good enough. Wan Bissaka is so bad, for the money we paid, he is a joke.

He was made for Burnley

 

[pratyush_utd]

Might be in a minority here, but Wan-Bissaka is a far better player than he gets credit for in my opinion, and is not even as bad going forward as has become some sort of stock.

He has unique 1v1 gifts, and in the right sort of team, I think he could be a major asset as first choice right back. And by right team, I mean a top one chasing trophies.

He wouldn’t start for a single top team. His short comings were obvious from the start. Even the scouts at Crystal Palace were shocked that we paid 50m for him.

He will do well for a midtable side

 

[Rozay]

He wouldn’t start for a single top team. His short comings were obvious from the start. Even the scouts at Crystal Palace were shocked that we paid 50m for him.

He will do well for a midtable side

… is the consensus on here. I’m familiar with it.

 

[Bebestation]

I’d have Wan Bissaka over Zinchenko personally.

 

[Thunderhead]

I’d have Wan Bissaka over Zinchenko personally.

they play totally different positions and Zinchenko is an attacking midfielder who players left back, AWB is a right back so not really a decent comparison

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

After 804

There’s no way we could have properly scouted 804 right backs

 

[joedirt87]

There’s no way we could have properly scouted 804 right backs

we probably didnt even scout 4 RBs.

 

[Long Time Red]

After Dalot's performance yesterday I'd be vey surprised if it's Wan-Bissaka that leaves.

At least he can be relied upon to defend and not get destroyed 1v1.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

AWB has always had flaws in his game but the degree of stick he gets on here is largely unfair. As with many of our players, the narrative around him is largely been driven by the pretence that his performances this season are representative of the general level he's shown since he signed. Much of the rest of it is about who signed him, how much he cost and how he compares to who our rivals have in the same position.

Overall he's been decent for us, and a key part of the first United team since Fergie to achieve consecutive Top 4 finishes. I think with the right coaching and some hard work on his weaknesses he could still potentially stake a claim to that position, but clearly he's never going to be a key player for the team in the way that TAA is for Liverpool, Alves was for Barca, Marcelo for Real etc. If Ten Hag thinks there's an attainable target who could be that player for us I'll have no complaints if we move AWB on. If we're talking about choosing to go with Dalot there, I'm sceptical but that's the manager's prerogative.

 

[golden_blunder]

You can Bebe look so good by getting snippets and putting it on twitter

It's quite simple really, he isn't good enough when compared to the full backs the top teams in the premier league has.

That is the standard

Im not saying he’s good enough but we need to stop comparing to TAA and co because there are precious few of those around

we just need a couple that will suit whatever system is implemented by the new team

 

[golden_blunder]

Zaha had an enjoyable game because he was on the bench. The point of having a squad is knowing when to use some players and yesterday was a game for bissaka.

Especially when a day or 2 before there was an interview with john salako basically saying that he was so good in training matches defending against zaha that he looked a totally different player

that one is on Ralf and his analysis

 

[Rozay]

Wan-Bissaka can be a key player here. He has some extreme qualities that can be well utilised, and is not that bad on the ball either. He carries it well, and is far better offensively than Dalot, who is just terrible going both ways.

I look at Kyle Walker, who I don’t particularly rate as a ‘footballer’ at all, who Pep has used extremely effectively as a cheat code/get out of jail free card. City play high largely on the premise that if any ball goes behind them, it is almost impossible for a forward to outrun and out strength Kyle Walker in a 40 yard race. England did the same in the Euros. Cancelo on the other side is a far superior footballer and is left to get on with that side of the game.

I do not see why Wan-Bissaka could not fulfil a similar role to Walker. One of the issues is that we are not able to play as high as City, and as a result, we have to defend in a different way to them in the main, which perhaps doesn’t suit Bissaka as much. I think for a team that plays on the halfway line, you can easily get a LB like Grimaldo to do his thing on the left and have AWB as your insurance policy. As I said, he’s also not as useless coming forward as is implied.

 

[Mcking]

Wan-Bissaka can be a key player here. He has some extreme qualities that can be well utilised, and is not that bad on the ball either. He carries it well, and is far better offensively than Dalot, who is just terrible going both ways.

I look at Kyle Walker, who I don’t particularly rate as a ‘footballer’ at all, who Pep has used extremely effectively as a cheat code/get out of jail free card. City play high largely on the premise that if any ball goes behind them, it is almost impossible for a forward to outrun and out strength Kyle Walker in a 40 yard race. England did the same in the Euros. Cancelo on the other side is a far superior footballer and is left to get on with that side of the game.

I do not see why Wan-Bissaka could not fulfil a similar role to Walker. One of the issues is that we are not able to play as high as City, and as a result, we have to defend in a different way to them in the main, which perhaps doesn’t suit Bissaka as much. I think for a team that plays on the halfway line, you can easily get a LB like Grimaldo to do his thing on the left and have AWB as your insurance policy. As I said, he’s also not as useless coming forward as is implied.

Carrying the ball well is not a quality I'd associate with Wan-Bissaka. He looks significantly slower when he has to run with the ball, even when there is clear space in front of him.

He conciously retains the ball well under pressure, and his touch is secure, but doesn't always put him in a good position to move the ball quickly. Apart from his ball retention, I don't see any positive value he offers when the team has the ball.

Walker doesn't have the technical deficiencies Wan-Bissaka does. He is able to pass faster and move the ball much quicker than Wan-Bissaka has shown to be able to.

 

[Rozay]

Carrying the ball well is not a quality I'd associate with Wan-Bissaka. He looks significantly slower when he has to run with the ball, even when there is clear space in front of him.

He conciously retains the ball well under pressure, and his touch is secure, but doesn't always put him in a good position to move the ball quickly. Apart from his ball retention, I don't see any positive value he offers when the team has the ball.

Walker doesn't have the technical deficiencies Wan-Bissaka does. He is able to pass faster and move the ball much quicker than Wan-Bissaka has shown to be able to.

Everyone is slower when they have to run while also kicking a football. I think he can go past players with the ball. His passing is not good, he isn’t a link player as such, neither is Kyle Walker. Wan-Bissaka would only need to power past a man and cross, and he is able to do that. He can also dribble a man reasonably well when needed, although just looks somewhat awkward while doing so.

Ultimately, I’m not here to champion him as a great technician. I’m here to champion him as a serviceable one, but an elite one when it comes to 1v1 defending and defending large spaces. At the top level of the game, there is always value in that, as for a dominant team, that is the type of defending you will need to do more often than not. If a team can keep an opponent penned in, and have to dribble past or outrun Wan-Bissaka when they do try to get out - it will be very hard for them. However, we are not such a team that can keep anyone penned in, and therefore, the type of defending Wan-Bissaka is better than almost everyone else at is one he doesn’t get to deploy enough. In a different type of tactical set up - he can be a huge asset I feel.

 

[bugmat]

Zaha had an enjoyable game because he was on the bench. The point of having a squad is knowing when to use some players and yesterday was a game for bissaka.

For sure. Ralf made a big mistake. Dalot can barely defend vs below-average wingers. This was a game for AwB simply because one-on-one he's always had Zaha's number.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Wan-Bissaka can be a key player here. He has some extreme qualities that can be well utilised, and is not that bad on the ball either. He carries it well, and is far better offensively than Dalot, who is just terrible going both ways.

I look at Kyle Walker, who I don’t particularly rate as a ‘footballer’ at all, who Pep has used extremely effectively as a cheat code/get out of jail free card. City play high largely on the premise that if any ball goes behind them, it is almost impossible for a forward to outrun and out strength Kyle Walker in a 40 yard race. England did the same in the Euros. Cancelo on the other side is a far superior footballer and is left to get on with that side of the game.

I do not see why Wan-Bissaka could not fulfil a similar role to Walker. One of the issues is that we are not able to play as high as City, and as a result, we have to defend in a different way to them in the main, which perhaps doesn’t suit Bissaka as much. I think for a team that plays on the halfway line, you can easily get a LB like Grimaldo to do his thing on the left and have AWB as your insurance policy. As I said, he’s also not as useless coming forward as is implied.

Crazy comparison to me.

Wan Bisaka is very very bad on the ball. Walker isnt in the team just for his recovery speed, he can also be relied on to keep the ball. Something City do for most of their games. You cannot rely on Wan Bisaka to build up and keep the ball.

AWB would work well in a low level team that doesn't expect to be on the ball much.

 

[Bebestation]

I actually like Wan Bissaka’s inward quick passing. His passing on the line is a bit more off.

 

[Rozay]

Crazy comparison to me.

Wan Bisaka is very very bad on the ball. Walker isnt in the team just for his recovery speed, he can also be relied on to keep the ball. Something City do for most of their games. You cannot rely on Wan Bisaka to build up and keep the ball.

AWB would work well in a low level team that doesn't expect to be on the ball much.

Walker isn’t a build up player either. And I don’t think he’s very very bad on the ball at all to me, he’s average.

And I don’t see the comparison as ‘crazy’ either. Pep, the footballing purist that he is, would almost certainly prefer to play Cancelo instead of Walker. In fact, he did just that for large periods. But he has reluctantly learned over time in England to place some value of defending (probably after going away to Leicester and lining up with De Bruyne and Silva as a CM pair and Sagna and Clichy as the centre halves behind them and finding his team 3-0 down after 20 minutes) and IMO, plays Walker because he is quite frankly a cheat code. He accepts the lesser beauty to his game. Walker is an elite athlete but a far less gifted footballer.