move on from this. AWB had a good season at palace and a very good start with us. Defensively he was solid. His form dropped just like everyone else and unfortunately, he didn’t develop well (so far at least). His price tag was high, but can’t blame Ole solely for this.
29
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move on from this. AWB had a good season at palace and a very good start with us. Defensively he was solid. His form dropped just like everyone else and unfortunately, he didn’t develop well (so far at least). His price tag was high, but can’t blame Ole solely for this.
Move on? Kind of difficult when his stench continues to linger through all his rotten signings.
won’t turn it into an Ole discussion, everyone has already said enough
AWB was a poor deal. He was always offensively timid and wouldn't have suited anything other than a counter attack system, similar to Maguire. Both signings were atrocious evaluations from Ole.
well he did set us up to be a counter attack team right until arguably this season.
And that's why its daft. You dont build a team for a temporary system.
You do wonder how and why we recruited a player that doesn’t have the attributes to play full back for a top side but that’s been us in a nutshell.
He’ll go on to be very solid in the right team, I’m sure, but definitely not the right signing for us.
He’ll go on to be very solid in the right team, I’m sure, but definitely not the right signing for us.
Because you are exhibiting signs of ptsd, and will not be capable of rational discussion until you move on.
Well this is why I think that he didn’t plan some of this seasons signings- especially the ones that were not counterattacking.
If Ole had stuck to what he was good at (keep-it-tight-at-the-back counterattacking football) then AWB was a perfectly good fit. At the time he was signed the powers that be at the club were perfectly happy with that.
However, Ole had said that he wanted us to be playing high-pressing front-footed football. Presumably nobody at the club at the time thought "Hang on, AWB isn't the player for that; maybe £50m for him isn't a good idea".
So yeah, singling out Ole for blame is idiotic.
He could never sustain any title charge or get to the next level if his approach was to counter attack anyway. It was fine to use in the first season or 18 months but after that he needed to expand on a more dominating system. But he misevaluated big signings to be capable of evolving beyond sitting deep, which was pretty foolish.
Stench? A bit OTT
As he should, the club itself is suffering the most PTSD from botched rebuilds of dud managers. The lesson to be learned isn't one to be swept under the rug. If Maguire doesn't turn things around that's 3 for 3 and a whole summer wasted. For a team that is still in the rebuilding phase this is a massive cockup. We bought a player for a totally different style and it was one any capable club could have seen coming. Worse is we moved Lukaku and Smalling that summer only to do this.
It’s not easy but I am sure the new players can’t be worse than the lot I mentioned!!
It’s an unrealistic expectation which would turn to negativity if they didn’t make the said unrealistic expectation
Not sure if I remember accurately but AWB won player of the season before we signed him didn't he?
Someone more knowledgeable can tell me if his stats etc were pretty good defensively and going forward.
He started well with us too. I personally think he was a good signing based on what he was doing but hasn't progressed and to me that is on the club/manager/coaches. There has been no development of players and I include likes of Rashy in this.
What gets me is we started to sign expensive prospects, and et al. But there was no progression for any player.
Someone more knowledgeable can tell me if his stats etc were pretty good defensively and going forward.
He started well with us too. I personally think he was a good signing based on what he was doing but hasn't progressed and to me that is on the club/manager/coaches. There has been no development of players and I include likes of Rashy in this.
What gets me is we started to sign expensive prospects, and et al. But there was no progression for any player.
Both him and Maguire were good signings for what Ole wanted to do at first (play shithouse, counter-attacking football) but when the expectations got higher and he was pressured into developing a more front-foot, dominating style of play they became useless.
Like I said on the CAF it's a bit world class or shit, it does not only apply to him. Apparently he is shit and there seems to be little between.
Please take responsibility for your own mindless Evangelical-like defence of him when he was still in charge.
Wishful thinking on my part I know given your limitless level of arrogance.
If ETH is the coach we think he is, AWB has every chance of not only staking his claim as the first choice RB but also becoming a very functional cog. As is 90% of the squad tbh.
If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.
Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.
Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
If ETH is the coach I think he is then AWB will leave the club relatively quickly.
He isn't a miracle worker. Some players just don't fit a manager's style of play and no amount of coaching or adapting will change that. And of all our players AWB is one of the most obviously ill-suited to ETH's style of play. There's no reason for ETH to try and make the unworkable work.
Was going to say more or less the same
His ball carrying is the most underrated part of his game. He is well capable of it. He is better than the majority of our fans say. Not being an aesthetically pleasing dribbler doesn't mean he can't do it. He is effective at it when playing well. I do think that we can do better, but this fanbase massively over exaggerates their negative opinion of him.
You could be very right and I wouldn't disagree but unless we are bringing in a new player then between Dalot, AWB and a youth player, the choice, options and expectations to how ETH wants his right back to play is limited. If ETH is willing to give every player a chance, which he will kind of have to as we won't be ripping up the squad and if AWB finds a second wind/new motivation/new found confidence, he's got lots of good attributes. Those are two big ifs yet it pretty much applies to most of the squad. The fact is, ETH will have to make the best of what he has got as much as he will want to implement his own style carte blanche.
AWB is athletic, can defend one-on-one, has got recovery pace, can overlap, provide width and has shown he can retain and carry the ball when given space (post above with supplementary clips). He may be an option for a more inverted defensive role too if we are creating more on the left (with hopefully a Shaw/Rashford resurgence?!). It's like Guardiola going from Avles/Lahm/Kimmich to Walker. Obviously I'm not comparing him to those but stylistically you've got to be pragmatic and utilise players even if they have fundamental flaws.
I can easily see ETH 'liking' Dalot, who has been very inconsistent but shown he's a very willing passer of the ball (many times too eager to create) and go forward with aplomb but he's really raw and inexperienced.
Like I said, not ideal and very bleak when you look at it from a position of (justified) pessimism; perhaps it's blind hope but let's come back and visit this when the new season starts as it will be interesting.
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Below is a clip from ex Palace player John Solako who says that he worked with AWB when the player was 17/18 years old, and they were close to releasing him from the club because his attitude wasn't great and he was failing as a right winger. He was then tried as a right back and performed well against Wilfried Zaha defensively and things started to look good for the player in a new role.
But Solako goes on to say that he was surprised that United would sign a player that had only played 42 games and lacked the real quality and intelligence going forward in a attacking sense.
I've read quite a few interviews from some of our scouts over the years, and the last one I read, the scout said that he only recommends players to the club after watching the player for at least 4 seasons. Hannibal Mejbri for example was signed after our French scout had been watching him since he was 12. The Wan Bissaka signing after only 42 games goes against what I'm hearing from the scouts via interviews.
But Solako goes on to say that he was surprised that United would sign a player that had only played 42 games and lacked the real quality and intelligence going forward in a attacking sense.
I've read quite a few interviews from some of our scouts over the years, and the last one I read, the scout said that he only recommends players to the club after watching the player for at least 4 seasons. Hannibal Mejbri for example was signed after our French scout had been watching him since he was 12. The Wan Bissaka signing after only 42 games goes against what I'm hearing from the scouts via interviews.
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People focusing on AWB and McTominay's ability to carry the ball are misguided. A ball travels faster and can break lines better than the majority of players who can carry the ball forward. Football is a pass and move game with the added need of spatial awareness and space manipulation. That requires a certain level of temperament and situational awareness that he hasn't shown as a starting fullback.
At the end of the day, majority of people gave AWB the benefit of the doubt to improve, but his flaws are so glaring and are a hindrance to the team, especially when he's had to share a right side with McTominay. That's way too much deficiency.
The sooner he leaves the better. United are on the move and he's been left behind. It's EtH time and he's not worthy of it, fine.
At the end of the day, majority of people gave AWB the benefit of the doubt to improve, but his flaws are so glaring and are a hindrance to the team, especially when he's had to share a right side with McTominay. That's way too much deficiency.
The sooner he leaves the better. United are on the move and he's been left behind. It's EtH time and he's not worthy of it, fine.
Love montages of cherry picked touches from players that cut to the next one before you see where the ball ends up. Completely pointless.
Hopefully we can add these 5 seconds video to his CV and drive the price up.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this happens.
AWB is still the best 1v1 defender in the league. He's still an excellent ball carrier. He still has a decent cross after the improvements he made his second season here.
What he lacks is play-making ability. And I don't think he'll ever have it. So we can instantly discount any chance of him become the next Lahm or Cancelo.
But if you slot him into an organised team where he has a set of specific jobs that focus on the world class qualities, he still has a chance.
The issue at United is that we've been carrying too many basic passers all at the same time. A top team can maybe get away with one out of AWB, McTominay and Fred. But definitely not all three at once.
AWB has a lot going for him, so it's not out of the realms of possibility that he'll be the one out of them who makes the cut for EtH. Stick him behind a creative RW and coach some patterns of play for transitioning up the right flank, and he should be able to adapt. If you take the thought out of his passing and make it instinctive, you won't even need to rely on him to be a play-maker.
A report from June 28, 2019. Click on the full article to see detailed stats and gifs to illustrate the analysis.
https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/how-much-is-aaron-wan-bissaka-worth/
One has to wonder the scouting and the coaching given all strengths and concerns were laid out in freely circulated articles even before he was signed.
Ridiculous take. I wonder why Klopp or Pep bothered overhauling their squads.
Exactly. The expectations are that ETH has to turn the turd procured by the previous guy into gold. Only then he will be deemed a proper manager.
Lends credence to what he wrote in the players tribune. He was struggling when they decided to convert him to RB. He and his people were shocked with her interest and were not sure he was ready.
The whole episode is evidence of bad scouting. But the club wanted to support Ole.
It was a short period of time but he looked a brilliant prospect to me at Palace and at a period when so many English talents were comign through looked to be one of the best.
I thought he did ok in the first season, second season I think he actually looked to be improving, going forward he looked to release the ball quicker and play more simply to keep play moving....This season though he did regress, not doing that, his positioning has not improved at all and Ragnick seemed to not like him very quickly so been a lack of game time, personally still find it razy Dalot has been picked ahead of him.
Although the coaching and structure here has been really lacking, as a whole I think we need to alsoget away from an excuse culture with many players that they ave failed due to this. The players responsibility is to have the right attitude and improve themselves and many here have really failed to homour the shirt in that respect. I dont really see Bissaka as one of them though
I do think we are putting too much faith in a new manager improving many of this squad.
A lot of our pplayers best versions of themselves are good players.....yet a lot of them at there best are still severely lacking in certain areas of there games.
There are quite a few have been here a long time when we have had Van Gaal who was a godo coach and tactiaian, Mourinho though outdated was and Ragnick was lauded tactically. And there has been a "with better coaching and management so and so can be a big player"......yet many have failed time and time again to progress. Yes there is a proportion of blame to the coaching, but I think we have reached the point with many where we simply have to be reaching the conclusion the players atttitude or ability all round is not good enough to wear the shirt and they have failed here.
I dont actually include Bissaka in that list, there are a few players I think can be improved with a quality new manager, Bissaka is kind of in between the two groups, but I think we are expecting too much in ETH with a lot of these players and keeping them just continues. The simple truth is many dont seem to have the intelligence and have weaknesses that hold them back from playing in a techcnical tactical system and no manager is going to change that
Thank you. It’s an argument I’ve had on here numerous times till I got bored. Fans say “he can’t control a ball”. I’ve always argued that he can. The ball playing stuff is a myth.what his problems are:
- Positioning
- Jogging back
- Heading
- Decision making
- confidence destroyed
positioning could absolutely be corrected with good coaches. As could jogging back.
Heading could surely be improved a little through coaching.
decision making is a harder one. This would not only need coaching off pitch but a leader on the pitch too giving instant feedback and advice.
confidence Is the biggest issue for me. It’s been utterly eroded and i doubt at this point our fanbase will help him get it back. In fact the opposite
best thing for him would be to leave and find a less toxic environment, rebuild his confidence and work on those other weaknesses
You can Bebe look so good by getting snippets and putting it on twitter
It's quite simple really, he isn't good enough when compared to the full backs the top teams in the premier league has.
That is the standard
It's quite simple really, he isn't good enough when compared to the full backs the top teams in the premier league has.
That is the standard
But Dalot is factually worse. Dalot is genuinely one of the worst defenders to ever play for the club.
I’ll caveat that by saying Wan-Bissaka isn’t good enough either, although I shouldn’t have to.
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