[tenpoless]

RB was the smoothest transition we had in a decade. From Valencia to AWB. You would think theyre the same person.

Edit: I mean Valencia of his last season, not prime Valencia nor Valencia that had just been converted to RB

 

[Jackal981]

RB was the smoothest transition we had in a decade. From Valencia to AWB. You would think theyre the same person.

Had seen more attacking threat from corpse of Valencia rather than AWB. At his best, Valencia was one of the best RB in the league. AWB could only dream that kind of peak in his sleep

 

[UpWithRivers]

Sometimes you need the water carriers. WB is getting the same sht as McTominay yesterday. Everyone expects Roberto Carlos performances but sometimes you need a few players to do the dirty work. WB is the man you turn to to take out a winger, put some hard tackles in and have some fight. Yes he is useless when you have a low block team and you need your wingers to push up but in some games he will be an asset. I woulnt be surprised to see Ralph use him in some of the tough games we have coming up - City, Liverpool etc

 

[Andycoleno9]

Till this day i can't understand logic in his transfer. When Ole was hired, he had plan to play attacking football with, by his words, full backs who play high on the pitch and are attacking threat. And then from all FBs in the world, his first and only pick is purely defensive full back. And for 50 bloody million pounds.

Awb is not bad fb. He is solid. But he is just not a modern fb who can play in attacking system. And never will be

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Had seen more attacking threat from corpse of Valencia rather than AWB. At his best, Valencia was one of the best RB in the league. AWB could only dream that kind of peak in his sleep

This. Valencia and Wan Bissaka have next to nothing in common. Valencia was very comfortable with the ball, his first touch was excellent, and he didn't get a nosebleed if he passed the half way line. He was hard to beat 1 on 1 though he hardly went to ground. He'd lost a bit of pace by the time he was a RB, but he was still a solid option.

The only thing they share is often poor positioning, but Valencia definitely got better at that towards the end.

 

[Andycoleno9]

RB was the smoothest transition we had in a decade. From Valencia to AWB. You would think theyre the same person.

Not even close to be compared. Valencia was among best fbs at his prime. Even when he declined he offered far more in attack than AWB does.
Valencia was modern fb with very good technique, ball control, passing ability and speed.

 

[Adisa]

RB was the smoothest transition we had in a decade. From Valencia to AWB. You would think theyre the same person.

An insult to Tonio.

 

[Bebestation]

Damn Wan bissaka needs 1 more assist to reach Valencia's numbers

 

[gregor]

Damn Wan bissaka needs 1 more assist to reach Valencia's numbers

Where is this stat from?
According to transfermarkt Valencia has 62 assists for us, AWB has 10...

https://www.transfermarkt.com/antonio-valencia/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/33544
https://www.transfermarkt.com/aaron-wan-bissaka/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/477758

 

[DWelbz19]

Does he not have the energy to sprint back helping out the defence? The way he just casually jogs back when we are countered is very infuriating to see.

They (well just me) don’t call him Aaron Jog-Backa for nothing

 

[Lassitude42]

Pretty much nailed it.

There's a cohort on here that have already decided some players have had a shit game before kickoff and will use any mistake to justify slating them.

AWB was far from bad yesterday.

He was an incredibly consistent in his first 2 seasons and now his form and his confidence have dropped off we'll see what he's made of.

Yep, sad to see our own fans endlessly trash a player who has been a net positive over the last few seasons

 

[villain]

Pretty much nailed it.

There's a cohort on here that have already decided some players have had a shit game before kickoff and will use any mistake to justify slating them.

AWB was far from bad yesterday.

He was an incredibly consistent in his first 2 seasons and now his form and his confidence have dropped off we'll see what he's made of.

Agree with this, hoping he can gain some confidence & find form again.

 

[izec]

People think that was a good performance because he made some tackles

90% of the time he is trash. His whole lethargic attitude stinks. Players like that will eventually leave, see Martial. Bust a gut or go back to midtable.

 

[romufc]

People think that was a good performance because he made some tackles

90% of the time he is trash. His whole lethargic attitude stinks. Players like that will eventually leave, see Martial.

Fair enough he made a few tackles, I thought he was quite poor tbh. He almost got us in trouble when he fell over in the first 5 mins, then he tried to dribble into CDM at one point, then the ball to bruno was suicide really.

There are 2 things though that frustrate me the most about him.

1. His willingness to track back - he is forever jogging, sometimes sprint back.
2. His passing is the worst I have seen from a United/ Premiership footballer.

 

[harms]

Sometimes you need the water carriers. WB is getting the same sht as McTominay yesterday. Everyone expects Roberto Carlos performances but sometimes you need a few players to do the dirty work. WB is the man you turn to to take out a winger, put some hard tackles in and have some fight. Yes he is useless when you have a low block team and you need your wingers to push up but in some games he will be an asset. I woulnt be surprised to see Ralph use him in some of the tough games we have coming up - City, Liverpool etc

That’s the thing. He doesn’t do the work — if he was showing sufficient effort I doubt that many people would be as critical of him. Unless not tracking back and switching off the game constitutes as a dirty work (as in, doing your team dirty?).

 

[Lynty]

Both goals came down his side, on one he was nowhere to be seen and the other both he and Lingard did less than nothing to stop the cross.

He should be getting bashed for it. Dalot isn't great but he's a clear upgrade on this clown. He's a woeful footballer. Who shouldn't be anywhere near the club.

By exagerating - your literally proving my point.

The first goal he had made an overlap and Lingard got too easily disposseded which led to a counter and a freakish cross/goal. He was literally not in the vinicity to do anything about it because he was doing what most people want him to do - get forward when we're in control.

I agree, that the 2nd cross should have been stopped by Lingard or AWB, and we've seen him stop crosses like that often.

I'm not claiming he had a great game, nor am I claiming he's a great full back. But there's a clearly an lot of negative bias towards AWB on this forum (seems the Caf needs a player to direct it's collective frustration).

I actually think he's a great fullback to have around, even if he's never starting. I'd prefer to see Dalot upgraded upon and keep AWB for when we face world class tricky wingers.

 

[Lentwood]

Yep. They're ignoring that he won absolutely sh!Tloads of tackles, and specifically concentrating on the negatives.

A game where the pitch, especially 2nd half was like a bog isn't the game to moan about his passing.

Yeah I would agree. I think the part that confuses me is that there seems to be some great reverence for Dalot, whilst AWB can't do anything right. Personally, for me, I think AWB is the better player, however, I accept other people might disagree. What I don't accept is that it's cut and dry. Dalot has been OK at best when playing this season, yet his performances seem to get talked up beyond their actual level.

I believe I know why.....just look at some of the posts from the prominent voices on social media, and you can see a clear pattern between players who get stick and players who don't.

 

[Sandikan]

Yeah I would agree. I think the part that confuses me is that there seems to be some great reverence for Dalot, whilst AWB can't do anything right. Personally, for me, I think AWB is the better player, however, I accept other people might disagree. What I don't accept is that it's cut and dry. Dalot has been OK at best when playing this season, yet his performances seem to get talked up beyond their actual level.

I believe I know why.....just look at some of the posts from the prominent voices on social media, and you can see a clear pattern between players who get stick and players who don't.

I think Dalot is a bit slicker on the ball, but not by so much that he's without doubt made the position his own by any means.

There is often a racism element, but I'm not convinced it's that with WB. Maguire and Shaw have had tonnes of abuse this season for example. It says quite something that Lindelof has been better than all 3 of the other "regular" defenders this season, and I'm Lindelof's biggest critic!

 

[UpWithRivers]

That’s the thing. He doesn’t do the work — if he was showing sufficient effort I doubt that many people would be as critical of him. Unless not tracking back and switching off the game constitutes as a dirty work (as in, doing your team dirty?).

More tackles than anyone else, more touches than anyone else, more interceptions than anyone else and more passes than anyone else and probably more winning slide tackles if that was measured ( the slide tackles was a joke, but still he wins 99 percent of them) Yeah he didnt do sht.

Edit - Oh and I think only Lindelof had more clearances. Dont forget he has been off for a while so he is not exactly match fit so although it wasnt a world class performance he didnt do as bad as people on here are making out. Did the dirty work - as I said.

 

[Long Time Red]

Apparently Wan-Bissaka's passing was terrible yesterday but somehow had the 3rd highest pass completion:

Cristiano Ronaldo	85.70%​
Victor Lindelöf	81%​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	80.90%​
Jadon Sancho	78.90%​
Harry Maguire	77.80%​
Fred	76.90%​
Scott McTominay	76.50%​
Paul Pogba	73.90%​
Jesse Lingard	72.70%​
Anthony Elanga	72.70%​
Luke Shaw	68.30%​
David de Gea	56%​
Bruno Fernandez	51.40%​

Think some people need to check their biases before kickoff....

 

[gregor]

Apparently Wan-Bissaka's passing was terrible yesterday but somehow had the 3rd highest pass completion:

Cristiano Ronaldo	85.70%​
Victor Lindelöf	81%​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	80.90%​
Jadon Sancho	78.90%​
Harry Maguire	77.80%​
Fred	76.90%​
Scott McTominay	76.50%​
Paul Pogba	73.90%​
Jesse Lingard	72.70%​
Anthony Elanga	72.70%​
Luke Shaw	68.30%​
David de Gea	56%​
Bruno Fernandez	51.40%​

Think some people need to check their biases before kickoff....

His passing completion was 73% (22/30). Pogba, Bruno and DeGea had worse %.
Both whoscored and sofascore have the same stat.

 

[Long Time Red]

His passing completion was 73% (22/30). Pogba, Bruno and DeGea had worse %.
Both whoscored and sofascore have the same stat.

Whoscored data is shit.

My data is from FBREF which is provided by Statsbomb, they are one the premium data providers for football stats and far more accurate and reliable than Whoscored.

https://fbref.com/en/matches/002f0ff0/Leeds-United-Manchester-United-February-20-2022-Premier-League

 

[Oranges038]

By exagerating - your literally proving my point.

The first goal he had made an overlap and got too easily disposseded which led to a counter and a freakish cross/goal. He was literally not in the vinicity to do anything about it because he was doing what most people want him to do - get forward when we're in control.

I agree, that the 2nd cross should have been stopped by Lingard or AWB, and we've seen him stop crosses like that often.

I'm not claiming he had a great game, nor am I claiming he's a great full back. But there's a clearly an lot of negative bias towards AWB on this forum (seems the Caf needs a player to direct it's collective frustration).

I actually think he's a great fullback to have around, even if he's never starting. I'd prefer to see Dalot upgraded upon and keep AWB for when we face world class tricky wingers.

He is a woeful footballer, his technical ability on the ball is shocking, his defensive positioning is terrible. It's amazing he has to where he is in the game. It's a prime example of physicality being prioritized over footballing ability.

First goal yeah, he tries the overlap. Fernandes bursts himself to make up 40 or 50 yards to try and close the cross, Lingard makes a token run, AWB really doesn't even bother trying to get back. I am not saying it was his fault, but if one of your team mates makes up so many yards and you don't even bother, it says a lot about your mentality.

Second goal, he basically runs into the middle to get the ball, kills Bruno with a stupid pass and then doesn't even bother trying to get close James down. He did more than one thing wrong there.

 

[harms]

Apparently Wan-Bissaka's passing was terrible yesterday but somehow had the 3rd highest pass completion:

Cristiano Ronaldo	85.70%​
Victor Lindelöf	81%​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	80.90%​
Jadon Sancho	78.90%​
Harry Maguire	77.80%​
Fred	76.90%​
Scott McTominay	76.50%​
Paul Pogba	73.90%​
Jesse Lingard	72.70%​
Anthony Elanga	72.70%​
Luke Shaw	68.30%​
David de Gea	56%​
Bruno Fernandez	51.40%​

Think some people need to check their biases before kickoff....

I’m not sure which website do you use but considering that they failed to even spell-check players’ names, I wouldn’t trust it. Whoscored has him on 73,3% for example, 5th worst in the team, not that this stat is useful for any serious analysis.

Edit: you’ve answered it already and fair enough, fbref is generally better. Not that the point about this stat being widely irrelevant to evaluate defenders’ passing is any less valid though.

 

[Long Time Red]

I’m not sure which website do you use but considering that they failed to even spell-check players’ names, I wouldn’t trust it. Whoscored has him on 73,3% for example, 5th worst in the team, not that this stat is useful for any serious analysis.

Edit: you’ve answered it already and fair enough, fbref is generally better. Not that the point about this stat being widely irrelevant to evaluate defenders’ passing is any less valid though.

I'm not trying to say he's a great passer or that his passing was incredible yesterday.

But it wasn't bad given the conditions.

The comments on here suggest he had the lowest pass completion on the pitch.

Was he great yesterday? No. Was he awful yesterday? Also no.

 

[MattyB1986]

I was an advocate of signing AWB when was first linked. I liked his defensive abilities, I was sure his attacking 'attributes' could be worked on and improved. But he doesn't even have control of his own body in attacking positions, always looks awkward.

Also, defensive liability against crosses to the back post has been an issue a few times.

Overall, not a bad player for a mid table prem team. A team with bigger aspirations, I got this one wrong.

 

[led_scholes]

Apparently Wan-Bissaka's passing was terrible yesterday but somehow had the 3rd highest pass completion:

Cristiano Ronaldo	85.70%​
Victor Lindelöf	81%​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	80.90%​
Jadon Sancho	78.90%​
Harry Maguire	77.80%​
Fred	76.90%​
Scott McTominay	76.50%​
Paul Pogba	73.90%​
Jesse Lingard	72.70%​
Anthony Elanga	72.70%​
Luke Shaw	68.30%​
David de Gea	56%​
Bruno Fernandez	51.40%​

Think some people need to check their biases before kickoff....

How many of these passes were more than 2 yards for example? How many forward? How many key?

 

[Lentwood]

I think Dalot is a bit slicker on the ball, but not by so much that he's without doubt made the position his own by any means.

There is often a racism element, but I'm not convinced it's that with WB. Maguire and Shaw have had tonnes of abuse this season for example. It says quite something that Lindelof has been better than all 3 of the other "regular" defenders this season, and I'm Lindelof's biggest critic!

Yeah I think the Dalot being 'better on the ball' line is massively exaggerated. I would agree that maybe Dalot looks a bit neater and is perhaps a little more naturally forward-thinking in his passing, but when you look at passing statistics and career statistics for goals and assists, the idea that Dalot is the far superior attacking option is flawed.

My thinking is really that neither are world-class full backs, but since we paid £50m for AWB and he's probably the better defender, Ralf should be working on his weaknesses and trying to integrate him into the side - as opposed to sticking with Dalot who in my opinion, is just sort of slightly above average at everything but not much more. It wouldn't be that difficult to coach AWB to have one trick to gain a yard and deliver a cross and to coach the underlapping runs into him.

 

[sullydnl]

Apparently Wan-Bissaka's passing was terrible yesterday but somehow had the 3rd highest pass completion:

Cristiano Ronaldo	85.70%​
Victor Lindelöf	81%​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	80.90%​
Jadon Sancho	78.90%​
Harry Maguire	77.80%​
Fred	76.90%​
Scott McTominay	76.50%​
Paul Pogba	73.90%​
Jesse Lingard	72.70%​
Anthony Elanga	72.70%​
Luke Shaw	68.30%​
David de Gea	56%​
Bruno Fernandez	51.40%​

Think some people need to check their biases before kickoff....

Having a high pass completion isn't the same as playing well.

AWB has pretty consistently had a good pass completion rate. 84.2% this season and 86% and 81.2% on the previous seasons. Or ranging between 79th and 96th percentile for fullbacks, if you prefer.

The problem is that he gets that high passing rate even with his technical limitations by being very conservative on the ball. Over those same three seasons he was 21st-66th percentile for progressive passes, 34th-63rd for progressive passing distance, 48th-58th for passes under pressure, 34th-64th for passes into the final third, etc.

Whereas someone like Dalot (who really isn't all that good a fullback himself) has been 91st percentile for progressive passes, 87th for progressive passing distance, 85th for passes under pressure, 80th for passes into the final third, etc. He has also played more through-balls this season than AWB managed in the last three combined.

In other words rather than giving the ball away constantly, the problem with AWB is that he's a cul-de-sac in posession. When the ball gets to him he struggles to actually move it further up the pitch or handle being put under pressure, so the ball inevitably tends to go sideways or backwards as that's how he can avoid surrendering possesion. Which helps cripple our right flank in possession, because we struggle to actually progress up the pitch down that side.

 

[Adisa]

Pass completion to judge a player's passing is a nonsense.

 

[Chaky_Best]

When you play with 4 players upfront, with usually a midfielder and the left back that are that high, it proves right to get a more stable right back like AWB.

I remind everyone that Wes Brown was not the best right back in the world, but provided the balance to the team when we usually played in possession with 6 players upfront.

So unless we buy Hakimi or TAA, I don t know why Dalot would be starter over him. And don t tell me that Dalot is better going forward with the average performances he puts since Ralf is there.

 

[Lynty]

Pass completion to judge a player's passing is a nonsense.

90% of posts in this thread are utter nonsense.

 

[Adisa]

When you play with 4 players upfront, with usually a midfielder and the left back that are that high, it proves right to get a more stable right back like AWB.

I remind everyone that Wes Brown was not the best right back in the world, but provided the balance to the team when we usually played in possession with 6 players upfront.

So unless we buy Hakimi or TAA, I don t know why Dalot would be starter over him. And don t tell me that Dalot is better going forward with the average performances he puts since Ralf is there.

He is better going forward.

 

[DrRodo]

Pass completion to judge a player's passing is a nonsense.

 

[Norris]

Yesterday's pitch was absolutely horrendous, especially that second half. Think he had a decent game though. He does switch off and is caught out positionally which is always troubling but at this point so does Dalot. Attacking wise, both have a long way to go though, Dalot in terms of his crossing and AWB probably in terms of awareness and movement. Honestly, I think it is good to have competition like that. Personally, I favour Dalot a little more because his long balls aren't too bad, but each player can be useful in certain types of games.

 

[AshRK]

He is a great tackler but that's about it. His positioning is awful, he sometimes struggles to make simple passes. The biggest worry is he still plays like a 21 year old who is on his debut season. No improvement. If our club is smart we should cut our losses and try to sell him for 20 to 30m

 

[Jackal981]

It is though. Without a context it is a useless stat. Wingbacks in modern game are expected to make progressive passes and crosses to help the offense. Neither which WB made. He can have 100% passing accuracy every match but if he only plays them sideways/backwards/on our own half it is basically pointless and detrimental to the team

 

[RedStarUnited]

Apparently Wan-Bissaka's passing was terrible yesterday but somehow had the 3rd highest pass completion:

Cristiano Ronaldo	85.70%​
Victor Lindelöf	81%​
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	80.90%​
Jadon Sancho	78.90%​
Harry Maguire	77.80%​
Fred	76.90%​
Scott McTominay	76.50%​
Paul Pogba	73.90%​
Jesse Lingard	72.70%​
Anthony Elanga	72.70%​
Luke Shaw	68.30%​
David de Gea	56%​
Bruno Fernandez	51.40%​

Think some people need to check their biases before kickoff....

Maybe not related to him but I find stats like Pass Completion so annoying. Because it doesn't really tell you the tangible differences in what the receiver of the pass has to do.

We as a team have a horrible habit of making passes that are detrimental to the flow of our game. A lot of our passes are either;

• Under hit: the receiver has to slow down to wait for the ball
• Overhit: Receiver has to do a lot to get the ball under control
• Mis directed: Receiver has to change pace or direction to get to the ball.

If I hit a hard pass to you ad you struggle to control it, The pass is still marked as completed from a statistical point of view but we might have lost the ball and potentially conceded.

 

[Long Time Red]

Having a high pass completion isn't the same as playing well.

AWB has pretty consistently had a good pass completion rate. 84.2% this season and 86% and 81.2% on the previous seasons. Or ranging between 79th and 96th percentile for fullbacks, if you prefer.

The problem is that he gets that high passing rate even with his technical limitations by being very conservative on the ball. Over those same three seasons he was 21st-66th percentile for progressive passes, 34th-63rd for progressive passing distance, 48th-58th for passes under pressure, 34th-64th for passes into the final third, etc.

Whereas someone like Dalot (who really isn't all that good a fullback himself) has been 91st percentile for progressive passes, 87th for progressive passing distance, 85th for passes under pressure, 80th for passes into the final third, etc. He has also played more through-balls this season than AWB managed in the last three combined.

In other words rather than giving the ball away constantly, the problem with AWB is that he's a cul-de-sac in posession. When the ball gets to him he struggles to actually move it further up the pitch or handle being put under pressure, so the ball inevitably tends to go sideways or backwards as that's how he can avoid surrendering possesion. Which helps cripple our right flank in possession, because we struggle to actually progress up the pitch down that side.

I'm aware pass completion isn't a perfect stat, but he found a team mate with a large number of his passes in tough conditions and that doesn't constitute a terrible performance.

Was he TAA or Reece James yesterday? No, but his passing was far from awful as was his all around performance

 

[Chaky_Best]

He is better going forward.

Except going fwd, Dalot proves absolutely nothing in 8 games. Just remind me a single cross that went into the box ? Or a shot, a run that created things ?

I mean, I am ok to replace one of our player with another one, that goes of course for De Gea, but since the player in his position is not better that him (worse for me), then I dont see why Henderson should play, or Dalot instead of AWB.

Dalot can t cross, can t shoot, can t defend.
At least AWB can defend.