What did you think of the scene on Dragonstone?
Was the only real weak point of the episode for me. Agree that it was a great episode, the best this season IMO.
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
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Was the only real weak point of the episode for me. Agree that it was a great episode, the best this season IMO.
Agreed, how do people remember these lines from thousands of pages? 'Only Cat' isn't even a particularly memorable line for me.
They should be far more pissed off with the butchering of the Stannis character on the show and especially the butchering of the Mountain.
Melisandre tits was all that matters.
Otherwise the scene didn't make sense, was completely pointless and won't have any effect on the show so yep, a weak point.
People are pissed for that. On todays comments a lot are complaining for the Mountain and for the ruin of Stannis character we have been complained for a long time. It's such a shame consider that the actor is a good actor, but the writing for him hasn't been great.
On a side note does anybody else thinks that Stannis looks a bit like Henry Fonda.
Was clearly important to the show as it sets up Stannis's redemption(in the eyes of show viewers), as he'll refuse to sacrifice Shireen to R'hllor.
Did that really happened and when? I don't remember anything about Melisandre wanting to butn Shireen.
I also don't think that there should have been the need for Stannis redemption on the first place. He was a bit weird but totally fine on the books. Now the best way to set his redemption is by letting Davos do all the talking while Stannis makes face gestures.
I reckon that story will pick up a lot once they're in the Citadel. Can't remember of they got there yet or not.
Didn't happen in the books but clearly set up in the show and probably necessary to show he is still a man of his own mind, and one of the "good guys".
Of course, *** ass too
Yeah they do need to make Stannis more likeable I feel, but that Dragonstone scene was just utter piss.
Yep, just checked the Westerosi forum and doesn't happen there.
I still don't think that it will have implications on the show, I doubt that Melisandre would dare to mention it to Stannis. Neither of them are sick or evil in my eyes. However I think that it set that they are going to leave for somewhere. Here it is a good job done by the writters and I guess them marching for the wall will be as a big surprise as in the books.
That's right, thanks. So Baelish can position himself as Protector of one Kingdom and ruler of another. While the Vale and the North probably aren't strong enough at this point to resists the Lannisters and the Tyrells, it's a good start!
Not sure if he's less evil than the Lannisters but he's an interesting character. He has no claim to the throne at all but he's seemingly the best at playing the game.
Not sure if he's less evil than the Lannisters but he's an interesting character. He has no claim to the throne at all but he's seemingly the best at playing the game.
I'm not sure I want to watch Oberyn's death in the next episode. Worst death in the series for me
I'm not sure I want to watch Oberyn's death in the next episode. Worst death in the series for me
You have shoulders if you ever need them Mel
Reading the TV series thread can be funny at times. They're speculating if Oberyn will get killed off. I'm afraid to even comment
They're going to flip their lids over there when Oberyn dies. Funny thing is I didn't care for him anywhere near as much in the books as in the show. He was an interesting character but I felt little connection so his death didn't have that much of an impact in itself, its implications (that it should, in theory, mean the end of Tyrion) were more important.
Then TV series will be a lot more enjoyable for you. I thought Red Viper was fecking brilliant in the books and the TV series is struggling to match that height when it comes to Oberyn.
I just feel we know and see more of him in the show. The book is heavily "biased" towards POV characters, we see most of him through the eyes of Tyrion.
His fight against the Mountain is brilliant in the books. I sympathised with his lust for revenge and the way he was dancing around him while trying to get a confession out of him was fantastic. But still, I was mostly rooting for him 1) because of Tyrion and 2) because unlike in the show in the books we know the Mountain quite well and I really really wanted him to die.
Overall, I enjoy the books far more than the show, I just happen to think the latter did a better job of getting the viewers to care about Oberyn. They fecked up with Ser Gregor though.
Wasnt melisandre afraid of shireen and her illness? Doubt she would want to sacrifice someone like that.
Littlefinger is also the Lord Paramount of the Trident. Harry the Heir is of age though so if Robin dies then he becomes the new Lord. So unless, littlefinger does something he'll lose control of the vale. The North is pretty much a dream at this stage and Sansa is not the heir anyway so littlefinger's plans will go a bit awry on that count.
Yeah for sure. I was mostly annoyed in the books because it meant the Mountain lived, not because the Viper died. This time it'll be the opposite (well, sort of, I still want the Mountain to die).
Littlefinger is planning to marry Sansa with Harry. If he achieves that, then he hopes that they will listen to him and he'll be like a father figure considering that he made them together. The next part of the plan is to take North with the Vale knights which would be piss easy considering that most of the North Lords would join Sansa against the Boltons. He is on name the Lord of Trident (getting the title and Harrenhal), however Walter Frey is the most powerful Lord on that part of the world. But if he manages to control both the Vale and the North, then he could easily defeat Frey and pretty much in one way or another control the biggest part of Westeros, and be able to go against Tyrells and/or Dorne (by that stage the Lannisters are completely irrelevant). Considering that Martells and Tyrells hate each other, he could easily join forces with one to defeat the others and then defeat the last actor on the stage.
However, there are a few things which will make his perfect plan completely failing. Starting from Sansa being a Stark and getting smarter every day. While he is expecting the naive little girl, he will soon be surprised. Then, there are external actors (Aegon/JonCon and Daeneris) which he isn't expecting. And finally, there is Varys who is an even better player than him, and while Littlefinger thinks that he has put Westeros on war, he is just a decoy on Varys' plans.
Regardless that his plan is a great one, he won't be able to realize it and I will be surprised if he doesn't get killed (likely from Sansa) on the sixth book.
I don't think that there is any need for spoilers on speculation (according to OP). Just the images needs to be spoilered (Niall's orders).
I can't remember if Sansa gets skipped for being a girl, you seem to be saying she does. But as far as Littlefinger knows Bran and Rickon (or whatever) are dead and that would make Sansa the heir, iirc.
Yeah, I know that but it's a risky plan. Harry does not sound like someone who would care too much about anyone let alone littlefinger but on the other hand littlefinger bringing him a Stark bride might make him influential.
The Freys only remain powerful and united until walder frey is alive. I expect they will self-destruct after he dies and even if they don't they are easily the most hated family in Westeros right now. Littlefinger should have no problems dealing with them but I don't think that will even be necessary. The North will become irrelevant. By the time littlefinger kills Robin and marries Sansa to Harry the Northmen would have already rooted out the Boltons and regained the north with Rickon as the lord.
Yeah. Littlefinger thinks she's the heir because he thinks Rickon is dead.
Rickon is an another external actor that I didn't mention. LF thinks that he is dead, which makes Sansa the heir, however that won't be the case. In the end, it may be completely irrelevant considering that Stannis will likely defeat the Boltons and become pretty much Lord of Winterfell (him being the King) until Rickon will come to age.
LF plan is great but he couldn't forasee some things.
Watched the episode...really hate the mountain character. Doesnt seem that evil at all.
Apart from hacking up about ten people in ten seconds.
Right, thanks for the recaps Revan and akash, I remember all this now that you say it, but I swear I've forgotten most of the books.
Littlefinger also has the problem of being closer to the White Walkers than some others. They may arrive before he ever has a chance to try to take the North, and he could end up hiding in the supposedly impregnable Vale, or sending his forces to assist the Crows.
Here's another question then, for those with great memories. Let's say that Bran takes over Winterfell, who would be Lord Protector of the North? Could Littlefinger hope to position himself as some sort of step-father with the boys through his relationship with Sansa, and rule the North even if Bran and/or Rickon make it back?
Martin uses magical elements very rarely, which makes them very effective. I feel ultimately that Littlefinger is too drab to be Martin's winner, he has no connection to magic, he won't have any plan to deal with the White Walkers or with the Dragons.
Martin seems determined to provide difficult to predict plots for all his main characters, so who knows what will happen. I suspect many things I expected to see won't happen.
Littlefinger also has the problem of being closer to the White Walkers than some others. They may arrive before he ever has a chance to try to take the North, and he could end up hiding in the supposedly impregnable Vale, or sending his forces to assist the Crows.
Here's another question then, for those with great memories. Let's say that Bran takes over Winterfell, who would be Lord Protector of the North? Could Littlefinger hope to position himself as some sort of step-father with the boys through his relationship with Sansa, and rule the North even if Bran and/or Rickon make it back?
Martin uses magical elements very rarely, which makes them very effective. I feel ultimately that Littlefinger is too drab to be Martin's winner, he has no connection to magic, he won't have any plan to deal with the White Walkers or with the Dragons.
Martin seems determined to provide difficult to predict plots for all his main characters, so who knows what will happen. I suspect many things I expected to see won't happen.
That makes him strong, not evil. They were prisoners anyway, if he was murdering them and their family that would have put the point across.
Bran isn't leaving that underground lair!
Rickon, or a revived Jon Snow are far more likely to take over at this point.
It was more the fact that he looked as if he didn't give a shit. He may as well have been hacking up weeds on his lawn.
That's an interesting question though I will replace Bran with Rickon as I don't think Bran is coming back.
It would have to be a northman so that rules out littlefinger. Maybe Jon or Wyman Manderley? Not many candidates that stand out.
Again that just makes him strong, he is a knight. He is suppose to be a killer. I would expect the same from every other king guard as well, whats the point of being a knight if you cant kill without showing remorse.
Knights are supposed to have honour like Brienne. If I recall correctly, some of them were unarmed and begging for mercy and he just hacked them down without a flicker of emotion. Sir Illyn Payne is the executioner, so why was The Mountain just hacking up a load of presumed prisoners in a yard?
I admit that the scene doesn't do enough to justify the Mountain's evil character, but it's not something you can just gloss over either.
The combination of that, plus the description about him burning the hound over a missing toy should have given the audience more than an inclination about his character.
That's not the definition of a knight. If you've read the Dunk & Egg novellas you will see GRRM pretty much describe a knight. A knight isn't a killing machine, a knight is meant to be someone who defends the needy.
That would be a nice way to get Jon out of the Night's Watch, have the winning King/Queen at the end name him Lord Protector of the North.
But Jon's dying, so he is probably not going to end up as Lord Protector. Seems obvious he's going to warg into his wolf, even so it seems he won't be in any position to take that role.
But Jon's dying, so he is probably not going to end up as Lord Protector. Seems obvious he's going to warg into his wolf, even so it seems he won't be in any position to take that role.
(So speculation is okay without spoilers? Pretty sure that didn't use to be the case so spoilered just to be safe.)
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We have seen Jamie throwing bran out the window, joffrey in all his glory, dany and her slaves. Compared that to killing a few prisoners? It doesnt make him anywhere near close to evil. Compare that to his books antics where you actually wanted him to die.
I feel the same for him as I do for Payne, nothing. It seems like he was just doing the duty assigned to him in killing them.
He was killing prisoners not innocent families. A knight who cant kill without remorse in terms of war is pretty useless.
Most of the Northern lords are either missing or dead. So if it's not Jon, I can't see past Manderley (if he survives that is).
Well, that all depends on whether you think slaughtering prisoners is justified or not. Killing on the battlefield is totally different to killing prisoners. I hope you never take me prisoner!
You misunderstand, Knights don't go around killing prisoners. That isn't what being a knight is. The Mountain did it because he is a monster who enjoys killing, not because he is a knight.