Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

I find it fairly odd that he's so adamantly against having another author finishing his books. Having that assurance would placate fans and let him do his writings at a more leisurely pace.

It's his magnum opus so from an emotional viewpoint, it makes sense that he'd want to do it himself, but by doing that he creates a lot of pressure on himself and pressure isn't necessarily the best thing when you are looking for inspiration.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I find it fairly odd that he's so adamantly against having another author finishing his books. Having that assurance would placate fans and let him do his writings at a more leisurely pace.

It's his magnum opus so from an emotional viewpoint, it makes sense that he'd want to do it himself, but by doing that he creates a lot of pressure on himself and pressure isn't necessarily the best thing when you are looking for inspiration.
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Yes. It's been a whirlwind 8 years since the last installment.
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Yes. It's been a whirlwind 8 years since the last installment.
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:lol:

He wasnt writing it though, we got one Dunk book, Fire and Blood, Wild Cards, and feck knows how much time he spent promoting the TV show. Between 2011-2015 I doubt he was writing at all, it's only from season 5 of the show did he become less involved and we got a few teaser chapters.
 
Kasper said:
Beside the fact that it's questionable that he'll ever finish Winds of winter, I wonder how he will actually finish the story within the scope of 2 books. The pacing slowed down extremely in 4 and 5 and at the end of the fifth there are more storylines than ever and they're all miles apart.
I don't think he'll ever finish the 7th book, yet even if he does, I'm extremely sceptical if it can be done in a satisfactory manner that doesn't suddenly rush or kill off multiple storylines.
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It's easy to finish, but I'm not sure it'll be a good one.

If he didn't had the chance to finish it years from now we'll be having tons of fan fictions on how it'll end.
 
)_( said:
I also think there's no way that Stannis will take Winterfell. There is just no narrative satisfaction to a guy who has no ties to the place winning it back. The Starks winning back Winterfell is the culmination of years of pain and suffering finally ending in a victory for House Stark. Anything else would just be poor storytelling imo. There's no emotional satisfaction to Stannis winning back Winterfell. Though, as I said, I have no clue if grrm will ever even get to write it as I don't see how it could happen in twow with Jon stilll being dead, Sansa in the Vale, Rickon on Skagos, Bran and Arya probably won't join up until later like in the show. GRRM said that things would get worse before they get better and I'm not sure if twow would include the "getting better" part. I sure hope it does because I'm ready to see House Stark winning in the books and the idea of the story possibly ending at the darkest point (if Grrm never gets to publish ados which is likely, let's be real) seems a bit depressing. So I definitely hope that, at least for the Starks, twow ends with a win, at least we'll have that even if we never get ados. And who knows, maybe after seeing how it ends in s8 a lot of people won't want ados.
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Kind of disagree here, if Stannis doesn't take Winterfell his character will have been many pages wasted on getting Mel to Jon. I also don't think George cares about the sentimentality of it being the Starks to retake Winterfell. If the Red Letter is true and Ramsey has smashed Stannis then what was his point. To meander around and achieve nothing bar be Mel's travel journal. I just don't buy it tbh... George will do what he thinks most logical and I think that's Stannis taking Winterfell and handing it back to the north to get them along side his claim.

Pity all we'll have is speculation. I genuinely think when George realised the tv show was beating the books to the end, he was like "feck this, I'm writing other stories and cashing in" He has himself written into such a convoluted mess he's probably relieved the TV is gonna (hamfistedly) finish it for him
 
padr81 said:
Kind of disagree here, if Stannis doesn't take Winterfell his character will have been many pages wasted on getting Mel to Jon. I also don't think George cares about the sentimentality of it being the Starks to retake Winterfell. If the Red Letter is true and Ramsey has smashed Stannis then what was his point. To meander around and achieve nothing bar be Mel's travel journal. I just don't buy it tbh... George will do what he thinks most logical and I think that's Stannis taking Winterfell and handing it back to the north to get them along side his claim.

Pity all we'll have is speculation. I genuinely think when George realised the tv show was beating the books to the end, he was like "feck this, I'm writing other stories and cashing in" He has himself written into such a convoluted mess he's probably relieved the TV is gonna (hamfistedly) finish it for him
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Winds of Winter would sell much more than whatever books he has written since "Dance" combined.

I don't think that there is anything more than simply a burnout there.
 
Revan said:
Winds of Winter would sell much more than whatever books he has written since "Dance" combined.

I don't think that there is anything more than simply a burnout there.
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Would keep the hype for GOT spin-offs going as well if he can churn out a book every couple of years.
 
Revan said:
Winds of Winter would sell much more than whatever books he has written since "Dance" combined.

I don't think that there is anything more than simply a burnout there.
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I fully believe he's unable to finish Asoif so he's focusing on other things and getting what he can out of the universe. I love the books but he has an awful web to get untangled in 2 books added to the fact we'll all know how it ends in 5 months, I think his priorities are elsewhere and he's letting the tv show butcher his story ending.
 
padr81 said:
Kind of disagree here, if Stannis doesn't take Winterfell his character will have been many pages wasted on getting Mel to Jon. I also don't think George cares about the sentimentality of it being the Starks to retake Winterfell. If the Red Letter is true and Ramsey has smashed Stannis then what was his point. To meander around and achieve nothing bar be Mel's travel journal. I just don't buy it tbh... George will do what he thinks most logical and I think that's Stannis taking Winterfell and handing it back to the north to get them along side his claim.

Pity all we'll have is speculation. I genuinely think when George realised the tv show was beating the books to the end, he was like "feck this, I'm writing other stories and cashing in" He has himself written into such a convoluted mess he's probably relieved the TV is gonna (hamfistedly) finish it for him
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Actually grrm has a knack in turnong things completely opposite to the expected. Robb was winning until he died, renly was set to kill stannis and then he died, stannis was so close in capturing KL then he got backstabbed by the tyrells

I have a feeling Stannis will defeated only to be turned/resurrected as a wight/others
 
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devilish said:
Actually grrm has a knack in turnong things completely opposite to the expected. Robb was winning until he died, renly was set to kill stannis and then he died, stannis was so close in capturing KL then he got backstabbed by the tyrells

I have a feeling Stannis will defeated only to be turned/resurrected as a wight/others
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That would actually be a cool and interesting end. I just think the fact we've all seen the pink letter (dunno why I keep calling it red), it makes no sense. I just find it strange that it could be legit. Giving out the end of the battle for Winterfell before the reader gets to read it would be a major let down.
 
padr81 said:
Kind of disagree here, if Stannis doesn't take Winterfell his character will have been many pages wasted on getting Mel to Jon. I also don't think George cares about the sentimentality of it being the Starks to retake Winterfell. If the Red Letter is true and Ramsey has smashed Stannis then what was his point. To meander around and achieve nothing bar be Mel's travel journal. I just don't buy it tbh... George will do what he thinks most logical and I think that's Stannis taking Winterfell and handing it back to the north to get them along side his claim.

Pity all we'll have is speculation. I genuinely think when George realised the tv show was beating the books to the end, he was like "feck this, I'm writing other stories and cashing in" He has himself written into such a convoluted mess he's probably relieved the TV is gonna (hamfistedly) finish it for him
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It's not sentimentality, it's logical storytelling. As a writer you want to make as big an impact on your reader as possible with something like this and Stannis (a non pov character) winning back Winterfell from the Boltons isn't it. It just doesn't have any emotional impact on the reader and as a writer, you'd basically be missing a huge opportunity by not having it be the Starks. The family that's been beaten down since the beginning and for them to then finally take back their childhood home, that evokes emotions. I could be wrong, of course, but I can't imagine that he would waste an opportunity like that. Unless Stannis wins it back and then the Starks go on to win it from him, but even then, Stannis ending the Bolton line isn't as narratively satisfying as the Starks doing it when it's their family that has suffered so much because of them.

There's a lot of characters that will end up achieving "nothing," their purpose in the story is to be a lesson for the reader, for the characters, to make comparisons and draw parallels with other characters. Sometimes someone's purpose is to fail. Stannis is a kinslayer, twice over if it wasn't for Davos getting Edric away, and the Shireen thing is something directly taken from GRRM so he'll be a kinslayer twice in the end anyway. He might be the rightful king but he's also sacrificing people by burning them alive. It was never going to end well for him
 
As I've said before, I haven't read the books, but if George was interested in making sure that he didn't "waste pages" on characters who ultimately ended up nowhere, I don't think he'd make people spend that much of Dance with Quentyn Martell, only for him to be burned alive. Stannis being the rightful king, only to have his army mercilessly slaughtered by the most hated family in the books... that honestly seems more "George" to me based on the first three / four seasons of the show.
 
I think it would but if not for the pink letter. I don't understand why he'd let the reader read a letter saying hey Jon, I fecked up Stannis, I have Mance etc.. if he actually had them and the battle hadn't happened.
If George writes the battle as the letter states happened, its a bit pointless writing about the battle.

I'm in the minority here but I believe this is some kind of play from Stannis, maybe to get Jon to join him in battle... who knows. All we do know is it is eventually what got Jon for the watched.
 
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padr81 said:
I think it would but if not for the pink letter. I don't understand why he'd let the reader read a letter saying hey Jon, I fecked up Stannis, I have Mance etc.. if he actually had them and the battle hadn't happened.
If George writes the battle as the letter states happened, its a bit pointless writing about the battle.

I'm in the minority here but I believe this is some kind of play from Stannis, maybe to get Jon to join him in battle... who knows. All we do know is it is eventually what got Jon for the watched.
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I like this. A lot actually.
 
robinamicrowave said:
I haven't read the books so I'm a little biased, and a little ignorant as well, but I'd much rather take the show's version of certain plotlines than the book ones. I'd rather see Sansa go back to Winterfell and be placed in the hands of Ramsay Bolton than be forced to care about Jeyne Pool, who Ramsay thinks is Arya Stark but actually isn't.
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I thought that was a really bad change.
I can understand why the show didn't want to use Jeyne Poole, but Sansa going back to Winterfell under Ramsay Bolton made no sense to me.
 
Cascarino said:
I thought that was a really bad change.
I can understand why the show didn't want to use Jeyne Poole, but Sansa going back to Winterfell under Ramsay Bolton made no sense to me.
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I guess that decision was the first indication of Game of Thrones behaving like a TV show as opposed to an adaptation. "Why bring in a new character in Jeyne Pool when you could put Sansa Stark back in a very different Winterfell?" I think the decision is that simple and it worked well enough on an emotional level across seasons 5 and 6 to justify the choice they made. I don't think it makes Littlefinger look foolish, I don't think it makes the show look cruel - the move was part of Littlefinger's plan to be named Warden of the North with Sansa as his claim to that position and with the Knights of the Vale under his control. It was all working brilliantly for him until Jon was unexpectedly named King in the North despite being a bastard, and then Bran arrived home to hammer in the final nail. The Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger merry-go-round in season seven left a lot to be desired but until he hid the letter (for feck's sake) Littlefinger schemed just as he always had done, and bringing Sansa back to Winterfell in season 5 was part of all that.
 
Each storyline is there for a reason but that reason doesn't necessary mean its leads to good tidings. For example Quentin's story alongside Aegon's story was necessary to make sure that Danny returns to Westeros without any allies. Prior to that the Martells were most likely wait for her since she had dragons + Darry had sealed a deal to marry Viserys with Arianne (which Danny could easily inherit if she wanted to). By doing so, Danny had been 'freed' to land elsewhere rather then Dorne, possibly up North.

Stannis was necessary to

a- introduce us to magic through Melisandre
b- kill off the biggest player in the war of 5 kings ie Renly
c- Force the Rose in bed with the Lions
d- Take Melisandre up North where she is conveniently at walking distance to a backstabbed Jon. Jon had to be in the NW else he would have died with Robb but it was also neccessary for him to 'die' else he would have never left the NW without at least needing to bend the knee to a king first.
 
robinamicrowave said:
I haven't read the books so I'm a little biased, and a little ignorant as well, but I'd much rather take the show's version of certain plotlines than the book ones. I'd rather see Sansa go back to Winterfell and be placed in the hands of Ramsay Bolton than be forced to care about Jeyne Pool, who Ramsay thinks is Arya Stark but actually isn't. And I'd rather see Mance Rayder burned alive by Stannis than see the show try to pull off that it's not Mance Rayder but actually Rattleshirt in a magic mask. Conversely, I'm eager to see where George would have taken Arya's Braavos plotline, which was clearly preparing itself to be something much bigger and more complex at the end of season 5 but was ultimately boiled down to Arya vs. the Waif with Jaqen playing referee, and how Daenerys' eventual invasion of Westeros would have played out. I can't help but think she'd have gone to Dorne than Dragonstone.

I think we'll eventually get answers to some of these questions, but not all.
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Actually that was one of the biggest brainfarts done by the show.

Littlefinger thrives in chaos. He needs it to go up the ranks. That's why he betrayed Ned, he sealed a deal between the Rose and the Lion (so he's rewarded Harrenhal and the Riverlands) and then he went on rescuing Sansa. His plan is to unite the Riverlands, the North and the Vale under one banner, possibly under his control.

Now lets focus on the North. Most bannermen are pissed off with the Boltons. However, none of them can go toe to toe against them by themselves and none of them is willing to bend the knee to an equal. Roose knows he lacks legitimacy hence why he 'bribed' his way by having Ramsay marrying Fake Arya. Most bannermen had never seen Arya in the first place, they would believe she's Arya and won't do anything that could risk her life.

By gifting Sansa to Roose, LF has basically given the Boltons the legitimacy they needed to rule the North. That's so anti littlefinger.
 
devilish said:
Actually that was one of the biggest brainfarts done by the show.

Littlefinger thrives in chaos. He needs it to go up the ranks. That's why he betrayed Ned, he sealed a deal between the Rose and the Lion (so he's rewarded Harrenhal and the Riverlands) and then he went on rescuing Sansa. His plan is to unite the Riverlands, the North and the Vale under one banner, possibly under his control.

Now lets focus on the North. Most bannermen are pissed off with the Boltons. However, none of them can go toe to toe against them by themselves and none of them is willing to bend the knee to an equal. Roose knows he lacks legitimacy hence why he 'bribed' his way by having Ramsay marrying Fake Arya. Most bannermen had never seen Arya in the first place, they would believe she's Arya and won't do anything that could risk her life.

By gifting Sansa to Roose, LF has basically given the Boltons the legitimacy they needed to rule the North. That's so anti littlefinger.
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I think his plan was to "befriend" the Boltons in the way he befriended Ned in the first season. He knew Stannis was heading south and he knew whichever army won that battle would take huge losses. He could then sweep in with the Knights of the Vale (with the backing of the Lannisters politically, under the guise that he'd return Sansa to Cersei), take control of Winterfell and be named Warden of the North. He'd then have Ned Stark's old position with Sansa as the legitimate Stark, with both the Boltons and Stannis' army nullified/dead. The Northern houses would then back Sansa (as they eventually did Jon), thank Littlefinger for ridding the world of the Boltons, and he'd have control of enough Northern houses to make a move south and take the throne. But then Jon was named King in the North instead and kind of took what Littlefinger believed was his moment - that was the first unexpected spanner in the works. Then two Starks suddenly arrive home after years away - one of them a master assassin, one of them who could literally see through time - and his plan was quickly ruined. As I said, the Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger merry-go-round was bizarre storytelling but the logic stands up for me until that point.
 
robinamicrowave said:
I think his plan was to "befriend" the Boltons in the way he befriended Ned in the first season. He knew Stannis was heading south and he knew whichever army won that battle would take huge losses. He could then sweep in with the Knights of the Vale (with the backing of the Lannisters politically, under the guise that he'd return Sansa to Cersei), take control of Winterfell and be named Warden of the North. He'd then have Ned Stark's old position with Sansa as the legitimate Stark, with both the Boltons and Stannis' army nullified/dead. The Northern houses would then back Sansa (as they eventually did Jon), thank Littlefinger for ridding the world of the Boltons, and he'd have control of enough Northern houses to make a move south and take the throne. But then Jon was named King in the North instead and kind of took what Littlefinger believed was his moment - that was the first unexpected spanner in the works. Then two Starks suddenly arrive home after years away - one of them a master assassin, one of them who could literally see through time - and his plan was quickly ruined. As I said, the Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger merry-go-round was bizarre storytelling but the logic stands up for me until that point.
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Ramsay is a savage and the North remembers. Gifting Sansa to Ramsay is a treacherous act which no Northerner will ever forget especially Sansa herself. Once Littlefinger reached the North then every Northerner would feel in duty to make him pay. That assuming they can get their hands on him before the honourable knights of the Vale ranks did. These men are renowned for their honour, they bled alongside Ned Stark during Robert's rebellion and they wouldn't take it lightly seeing Ned's daughter being married to the very family who were involved in the death of Ned's wife and son.Royce in particular is not someone to piss off. In the books he's no elderly Pub regular with a beer belly as portrayed by Rupert Vansittart but a battlehardened knight, the size of Sandor Clegane who could beat both Ned and Rodrick Cassel in a sparring fight. Its one thing acting as some wise guy at the Eyrie and its another sharing their bread in a hostile environment. Accidents do happen and the North is a treacherous place especially in Winter.

Also if Roose got his hands on Sansa then Stannis would have been as good as dead. The Boltons has more then enough troops to wipe Stannis off the map and the same Stark loyalists on which Stannis is banking upon to boost his ranks wouldn't risk Sansa's life for him. Irrespective who wins, the North doesn't have the army to threaten the Lannisters-Tyrell force by themselves. Their army was already tiny when lead by Robb lead alone now after all these years of war.

For Littlefinger to make an effect he would need a coalition. That means the North, the Riverlands and the Vale. He needed to save the North from the Boltons not strengthening their hands by gifting them Sansa.
 
It made no sense for the Boltons to betray the Lannisters by taking Sansa.
 
@robinamicrowave I think it’s pointless discussing these plots if you have no interest in reading the books. Having plot points spoiled for you doesn’t mean you get all the nuances of politickings described in the books.

Giving Sansa to the Bolton makes absolutely zero sense. ‘Knights of the Vale’ in the show is a deux ex machina, in the books they are a rambunctious bunch with different motives and character, but one thing for sure the prominent ones amongst them aren’t lacking for honour and they will take no command from a guy who gave the daughter of the guy who was fostered by their liege lord to his family’s killers. And the North remembers, in what universe can Littlefinger turn up at Winterfell expecting any sort of influence on Sansa herself or the Stark loyalists after such a move? The Boltons themselves will thank him very courteously for his help delivering them the strongest claimant to Winterfell and duly kick him out.
 
2cents said:
It made no sense for the Boltons to betray the Lannisters by taking Sansa.
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Very little about the show has made sense since Season 4. The writing is absolutely horrendous.
 
2cents said:
It made no sense for the Boltons to betray the Lannisters by taking Sansa.
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Tbf Sansa’s claim is stronger than Arya’s, and no one can dispute her authenticity. It’d be very risky for them to renounce support from the Lannisters but conversely the Dreadfort is still the strongest house left, sufficient for holding out and if Ramsay can get a son by her they can then send her away to KL for a nice chopping later.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Tbf Sansa’s claim is stronger than Arya’s, and no one can dispute her authenticity. It’d be very risky for them to renounce support from the Lannisters but conversely the Dreadfort is still the strongest house left, sufficient for holding out and if Ramsay can get a son by her they can then send her away to KL for a nice chopping later.
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It is incredibly lame. In the show, the Boltons have just betrayed their liege-lords - pissing off the entire north in the process - and been rewarded by the Lannisters as Wardens of the North. So their first move is then to take Sansa - who Cersei is looking all over Westeros for - and risk their brand new alliance and sole basis for their new position? The writers obviously understood how stupid this was, because they only acknowledged it briefly, in passing, and we never again heard about it or about how the Lannisters might have responded to the news that Sansa had married Ramsay.
 
2cents said:
It is incredibly lame. In the show, the Boltons have just betrayed their liege-lords - pissing off the entire north in the process - and been rewarded by the Lannisters as Wardens of the North. So their first move is then to take Sansa - who Cersei is looking all over Westeros for - and risk their brand new alliance and sole basis for their new position? The writers obviously understood how stupid this was, because they only acknowledged it briefly, in passing, and we never again heard about it or about how the Lannisters might have responded to the news that Sansa had married Ramsay.
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I just tried to look for a possible scenario (one which still stretch credulity extremely thin, mind) in which the flayers taking Sansa in make sense. In the show there’s no fArya, so while incredibly risky, it’d still be fairly tempting to at least beget an heir by the sole surviving child of Ned Stark, the Lannisters will be pissed off, but promise of a mysterious ‘accident’ might suffice, especially when they can’t mount a Northern campaign even if they want to.
 
2cents said:
It made no sense for the Boltons to betray the Lannisters by taking Sansa.
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Unlike the show producers both Tywin and Roose have brains. Roose asked for a Stark for Ramsey to marry. He needed a Stark girl to consolidate his power over the North. But Tywin wasn't stupid. He acted wisely by sending him Jeyne Poole instead. He then moved all hostages from the twins (ie Roose's allies) to the rock and he married Sansa to Tyrion. That's basically keeps Roose under a very short leash. If he rebels then Tywin would leak that Roose's bastard is married to some nobody and provide the North with a suitable Stark heir + the return of a number of hostages to those willing to fight for Tyrion's son claim.
 
I wonder why the show didn't go into more detail about Dany's fantasies about Jorah, instead choosing to completely friendzone him.
 
Arbitrium said:
I wonder why the show didn't go into more detail about Dany's fantasies about Jorah, instead choosing to completely friendzone him.
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The show has largely ignored the fantasies of basically every character for efficiency's sake, I think. I'm sure I'm right in saying that D & D made a point of avoiding flashbacks, direwolf visions, Stark warging, dream sequences and glass candles content from the book. Even when they've dipped into flashback territory they've chopped and changed certain elements to try and keep them as open to interpretation as possible. I think they've kept a lid on some of the magical content from the books because translating it for the visual medium might not have worked so comfortably. Can you imagine the show with Dany having numerous hallucinations, or Arya warging into Nymeria in her sleep, or Melisandre using blood magic to have everyone believe Rattleshirt is Mance Rayder? It might work in the books because they're always visualised by an individual's imagination, whereas the show has always tried to make sure the drama and tension comes from a place of "reality" because imagining a world when you're reading a book is different to being shown one on television.

So, if Dany's feelings for Jorah are only fully expressed in her fantasies in the book I think you can understand why the show didn't include them. Plus, I think in the way their relationship has developed in the show, it makes Jorah more sympathetic to have to win back her trust after "betraying" her. We know he's not the person he was before and during season one, but Dany not knowing that is a good source of dramatic irony for the viewers. I know the version of events are different in the book, where Jorah refuses to apologise for his previous actions and so he's banished, but I'm not sure that suits Iain Glen's portrayal of him. Personally, I believe they should have just killed him off after 'The Door' when he got his moment to ride off into the sunset - all he's done since is distract Sam from learning about the White Walkers at the Citadel and give a pep talk to a dying Thoros beyond the Wall - but losing Dany's fantasies about him isn't something I think the show needs. She had Khal Drogo, she had Daario Naharis, now she has Jon Snow, I'm struggling to see a place for Jorah in all that.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
@robinamicrowave I think it’s pointless discussing these plots if you have no interest in reading the books. Having plot points spoiled for you doesn’t mean you get all the nuances of politickings described in the books.

Giving Sansa to the Bolton makes absolutely zero sense. ‘Knights of the Vale’ in the show is a deux ex machina, in the books they are a rambunctious bunch with different motives and character, but one thing for sure the prominent ones amongst them aren’t lacking for honour and they will take no command from a guy who gave the daughter of the guy who was fostered by their liege lord to his family’s killers. And the North remembers, in what universe can Littlefinger turn up at Winterfell expecting any sort of influence on Sansa herself or the Stark loyalists after such a move? The Boltons themselves will thank him very courteously for his help delivering them the strongest claimant to Winterfell and duly kick him out.
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I'll have to take your word for it. Not gonna try and change the mind of someone who's actually read the things. :lol:
 
I agree giving Sansa to the Boltons makes no real story sense but imho it had to be done on tv. Lets face it Sansa does nothing of note since the moon door piece and D&D couldn't just have Sophie Turner sitting on the sidelines for 2 seasons.
 
padr81 said:
I agree giving Sansa to the Boltons makes no real story sense but imho it had to be done on tv. Lets face it Sansa does nothing of note since the moon door piece and D&D couldn't just have Sophie Turner sitting on the sidelines for 2 seasons.
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Yeah, but if the best they can come up with is to force her into another marriage, get raped, feud with 2 siblings and become a mini-Cersei they shouldn't have bothered.
 
Drainy said:
Yeah, but if the best they can come up with is to force her into another marriage, get raped, feud with 2 siblings and become a mini-Cersei they shouldn't have bothered.
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I kind of agree, but she had to do something so in fairness Jeyne Poole was the free role or the one most changable. So the first 2 parts are on George. Becoming Cersei's stupid clone or Maleficent is on D&D though. I just think they had no option but to give her the Jeyne Poole role due to options. Well, of course they could have left that storyline out or cut out the rapey parts but I'm not sure what exactly they could have done with her.

George has her sat in the Vale babysitting for the last 18 years while Littlefinger makes a cunning plan to marry her off.
 
Drainy said:
Yeah, but if the best they can come up with is to force her into another marriage, get raped, feud with 2 siblings and become a mini-Cersei they shouldn't have bothered.
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They set up the end of that previous season really well - she walks down the stairs after darknening her hair to look more like her mum, seemingly ready to play Little finger at his own game, and the next time we see her she's been sold off - like, immediately. Fair enough, if she needs to be at Winterfell then make the "sale" happen, but not right fecking away. Let her play the game with Littlefinger for a couple of episodes, build up tension, and then pull the classic GoT plot intrigue move when you start to think that she's winning.

D&D have done a decent job, but when they don't have the books to use they are hopeless at intrigue. They'd rather dazzle you with big action sequences and hope you don't notice that the plot and writing have become paper thin.
 
Let it begin.

I really enjoyed this episode. Not much happened, but it sets the stage for the final 5 episodes.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
They set up the end of that previous season really well - she walks down the stairs after darknening her hair to look more like her mum, seemingly ready to play Little finger at his own game, and the next time we see her she's been sold off - like, immediately. Fair enough, if she needs to be at Winterfell then make the "sale" happen, but not right fecking away. Let her play the game with Littlefinger for a couple of episodes, build up tension, and then pull the classic GoT plot intrigue move when you start to think that she's winning.

D&D have done a decent job, but when they don't have the books to use they are hopeless at intrigue. They'd rather dazzle you with big action sequences and hope you don't notice that the plot and writing have become paper thin.
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Problem is they dont have thst couple of episode.

Any geek fans can write continuation of the book beautifully. But you really cant write much with a 2 season quota to wrap things up beautifully
 
The pace is excruciatingly slow for only a 6 ep season, and much of it is just referencing old episodes/scene (Winterfell scene mirrors the first episode, waterfall scene = Jon and Ygritte)

That being said, Samwell/Daenerys scene was funny. That makes it almost worth it.

Also interesting to see how Danny deals with her raison d’etre being upended. I’m not sure she’ll be presented with that dilemma in the books.
 
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