Just came from GoT concert in Zurich (lead by Ramin Djawadi himself). fecking magnificent!
Last edited:
Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
- Start date
Jaime is probably my favorite character and I was still enjoying seeing him losing his hand and getting beaten to death. It just shows how well his transformation in the books and the show was done.
Also, I had forgotten how excellent Lady Olena was in the third season. Her and Tywin are awesome.
Ygritte teasing Jon all the time was funny to me this time. In the original viewing, I found her annoying.
Also, I had forgotten how excellent Lady Olena was in the third season. Her and Tywin are awesome.
Ygritte teasing Jon all the time was funny to me this time. In the original viewing, I found her annoying.
Last edited:
I really should have skipped 'The Rains of Castamere' in the rewatch. It is by far the saddest episode in a TV show I have ever seen.
The ending is so tragic, that I forgot the two other really emotional moments in the episode: Jon leaving Ygritte, and Bran and Rickon getting separated with Rickon actually crying while doing so.
The ending is so tragic, that I forgot the two other really emotional moments in the episode: Jon leaving Ygritte, and Bran and Rickon getting separated with Rickon actually crying while doing so.
I was doing a rewatch of the series before season 6 and couldn't even get round to starting 'Rains of Castamere'. Kept delaying it and finally season 6 started. That is one episode that I know I am never watching again.
I must be a sicko because I think it's fecking brilliant, haha. I have a friend who stopped watching after the Red Wedding and hasn't seen an episode since.
It obviously was a brilliant idea and one of the highlights of the books, and together with 'Winds of Winter' the best episode in the show (and one of the greatest episodes in the history of TV shows), but it is genuinely sad to watch.
A bit like 'Grave of the Fireflies' which is a brilliant movie, but there is no way that I am ever going to rewatch it.
The fact the red wedding kind of happened (up in Scotland wasn’t it?) is a frightening thought.
I remember they reference it in Madmen.
I remember they reference it in Madmen.
Me too. Didn't watch Rains of Castamere during my rewatch. I'll probably never watch it again.
A lot of horrible things happened there back in the old days.
Gosh, the last episode of the sixth season (The Winds of Winter) is absolute perfection. My favorite episode in any TV show I have ever watched, and the R + L = J reveal scene with the King of the North followup is as a great shooting as it is ever going to be in a show. Cersei's big scene when she burns everyone is near as good.
Otherwise, I found the season much worse than I remember. The last two episodes were fantastic, but on the other episodes bar the big things (Jon's resurrection, Hodor, Danny burning the Khals) had a much worse writing than the first four seasons. I had this season as third best overall, but now I think that all first four seasons were better, so I have to goo with 1 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 6 >>> 5. I guess 7 will keep its penultimate position when I rewatch it tomorrow or so.
Otherwise, I found the season much worse than I remember. The last two episodes were fantastic, but on the other episodes bar the big things (Jon's resurrection, Hodor, Danny burning the Khals) had a much worse writing than the first four seasons. I had this season as third best overall, but now I think that all first four seasons were better, so I have to goo with 1 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 6 >>> 5. I guess 7 will keep its penultimate position when I rewatch it tomorrow or so.
It's a great episode. For me specifically it has four of the best pieces of music Djawadi wrote for the show (Light of the Seven, Winter Has Come, The Winds of Winter, The Tower).
Yeah that too. It misses 'The Rains of Castamere' and 'The Truth' though.
Pretty much agree with everything you wrote there.
Is the 6th book ever going to come out?
Next year
I hate re-reading books but there are so many subtle nuances in this one that I might have to slog through the previous ones before the next one comes out. The only book I've re-read was A confederacy of Dunces and only because its the funniest thing I've read.
Yeah, planning to reread them if Winds ever gets published. To be fair, I remember relatively well the first three books cause I reread them like 4 years ago, but the last two I've read only once, and those have so many new arks that I don't remember much.
Yeah, I think that it is either that or never.
I am hopeful that its going to be next year simply because Fire and Blood is releasing this year and the only reason I can think of for GRRM to write and work on Fire and Blood while Winds is not published is that Fire and Blood contains information which while relevant for Winds can't be part of the same without making it too bloated. So even if its not next year it will get published in 2020, unless something happens to him before that. But I have zero confidence on him ever publishing Dream of Spring.
To be honest, I think Work is already completed on all the books. GRRM is just delaying due to marketing purpose as he is waiting for the show to end. There will be little wait for the next one after Winds of Winter. I have not read any as I am waiting for the show to end. That is what I have been telling my friends because LOTR Movies was a disappointment after having read the books.
I think that he is working quite hard now, having written Fire and Blood and a new novella, and Winds has been almost ready for some time now. So, I assume that he is almost done with it, so my best guess would be Fall 2019. He is working, seems to have refind his mojo, and doesn't have much distractions bar Fire and Blood 2.
Dream of Spring seems a longshot now. He needs to be healthy and motivated for an another decade in order to write it, cause I don't see him suddenly getting transformed into a fast author. He would need at least 5 years for it, likely 10. Best bet seem to be for him to write as much as he can, and in case he is unable to finish it, to allow it for someone else to do so.
GRRM ain't sacrificing his magna opus for the show. It isn't a conspiracy for marketing purposes, he's just a lazy author who seemed to have had problems on getting concentrated in the work for the last 2 decades.
Apparently its that he can’t work out how to get the individual stories to work or come back together in a believable fashion along within a timeline.
Exactly. Like Robert Jordan before him, he has lost his way on the story. Which I guess makes it unlikely for him to ever finish it.
An author who cares much less about it would find it much easier to finish it IMO.
Just wondering, what if he just can't finish the book, just can't concentrate and gives up, is there a chance anyone else completing his work ?
Has there been any examples like that ?
He already said he won’t allow that.
If he kicks the bucket before he finishes the books, the only closure we will get is from the Dumb&Dumber duo
Wheel of Time. It is the most sold fantasy saga after LOTR and Harry Potter, and actually a lot of people mention that ASOIAF was helped from its author (Robert Jordan) who praised Game of Thrones. Until the Got started, it was a much popular saga than ASOIAF.
Anyway, Jordan lost its way during the books, and to make things worse, he got cancer. After he died, based on his notes (more than 2000 pages), a young author (Brandon Sanderson) was chosen to finish it, and he wrote 3 large novels to finish the epic 15 book saga.
GRRM has said that he ain't allowing anyone to touch ASOIAF, but then, so said Jordan before.
He already said he won’t allow that.
If he kicks the bucket before he finishes the books, the only closure we will get is from the Dumb&Dumber duo
"It made sense because we wanted it to happen."
What a selfish bastard
I’d be astounded if Jon and Dany hook up in the books. That one was pure fan service.
"It made sense because we wanted it to happen."
As for Dream for Spring, personally I think it hinges on WoW. He originally planned a trilogy with A Dream for Spring being the last book so presumably he knows how it’s going to end, so it’s just a matter of wrapping up.
If there's a romance between Jon/Daenerys in the books I can still see it being more for political purposes than anything else.
As for the books, I'd be surprised if he manages to finish it by ADOS, even if he does write the next two books. The plot seems to keep getting bigger and bigger. By his original three book plan, he's currently just hitting book two, and in a fair number of the TWOW sample chapters not that much really happens.
If he passes away before he finishes he should leave an outline to someone else. Seems a bit shite to deprive fans of a work you didn't manage to finish when many would've only originally read the series on the basis that it was going to come with an ending.
As for the books, I'd be surprised if he manages to finish it by ADOS, even if he does write the next two books. The plot seems to keep getting bigger and bigger. By his original three book plan, he's currently just hitting book two, and in a fair number of the TWOW sample chapters not that much really happens.
If he passes away before he finishes he should leave an outline to someone else. Seems a bit shite to deprive fans of a work you didn't manage to finish when many would've only originally read the series on the basis that it was going to come with an ending.
Jon is very different from the books in the show, so probably his path and Danny's won't converge on the same way, or will converge later. If Aegon is fAegon though (or it is left ambiguous and gets a Drogon death), I can see Jon making an alliance and shagging Danny. They were the two main characters from the beginning, the ice and the fire (one of the interpretations), they are going to meet each other in the books too.
Problem is, Aegon kind of massively change things, so without knowing what will happen with him, it is hard to predict Jon-Danny's path.
Problem is, Aegon kind of massively change things, so without knowing what will happen with him, it is hard to predict Jon-Danny's path.
Yup, and it seems pretty clear he's going to be warging it in Ghost's body for at least the first part of WoW.
I suspect we'll see Daenerys defeat Aegon in a second dance of dragons, which will largely take the place of the Targaryen/Lannister conflict in the show. Albeit the Lannisters will still function in that plot as wildcards to an extent.
Yep. In the show, they made him an Aragorn, while in books, he never went to kill those feckers who killed Mormont, instead of going to Hardhorme to kill WW, send there Allistar Thorne, and the battle of bastards haven't happened yet (it probably won't happen at all, and if it happens, it won't be KotV who would save the day). And then the absurdity of getting a zombie to send to Cersei which has 0 chance of happening in the books.
While his character is kind of the same (a confused young boy, who started from relatively a low position and who tries to do what is right), they made him in the show much more heroic than he is on the books.
I think that is very likely, and it might be that the reason GRRM invented Dance of Dragons was to be a foreshadowing for Danny vs Aegon. No idea what will be Lannisters and Tyrells goal on it, but it might weaken Danny considerably to the point that she will need Lannisters army for the final fight.
Another wildcard is Stannis. Do we believe that he'll lose to Ramsey?
Can understand why they cut that part with Jon right enough, a character inside a wolf wouldn't really have worked adaptation wise.
Albeit Ghost's treatment in general in the show has been poor. In the books he adds a lot of mystique to Jon's character. Arguably as important to him as the dragons are to Daenerys.
Feck, I had erased that entire plot from my mind. The writers really need lynching.
I don't think Stannis is going anywhere for the moment, as I recall the show writers didn't like the character and so were eager to kill him off (in the lamest way possible as it turned out), while I get the feeling that Martin is quite fond of him (as am I actually). So I can see him defeating Ramsey in the first half of WoW.