Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

niMic said:
Known? I wouldn't say that. I've seen some of them before, though. Edmure is Brutus from Rome. Tormund played in the new The Thing movie. One of the girls played in Hollyoaks (not that I've seen that, it's just what I read). Then there's the guy from The Office, as well as the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

But really, how many of the original cast were you familiar with? Sean Bean, Peter Dinklage, Aidan Gillen, Mark Addy.. maybe Jason Momoa? And three of those were just for the first season. It's never been the kind of show that casts the "stars". It's TV, for one. Obviously I was exaggerating when I said "it's all perfect", but it looks pretty damn good to me to begin with. Particularly pleased with Edmure and Tormund.
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Edmure and MacKenzie are the ones that I was familiar with. MacKenzie I don't find surprising being cast in this. Was kind of expecting it. Pretty much a typecast that.

I wasn't familiar with many. That's why I wouldn't go as far as calling them perfect. I only commented on it because two people had said so which I thought odd since I hadn't seen the other actors at all.

I'm not worried about casting. British actors are mostly very capable actors and the two seasons has been excellently cast.
 
Talking about British actors, any idea why the majority (if not all) actors in this show are British?
 
Guessing it's to do with the production and keeping the dialect consistent. Wouldn't make sense to shoot it mostly in N-Ireland and not have a British cast.
 
DoctorEvil said:
That does not make Tyrion as bad as Tywin. It only means that they have one similar character trait (or flaw). They differ in other aspects. Tyrion would never dream on setting up a deal such as the one leading to the red wedding. Tywin saw no problem with doing so.

I do not think Shea was trying to help Tyrion. I think she may still liked him somewhat, but she still betrayed him when she thought that will be the best thing for her. She probably did not have much choice, but she could have done this in a way which would not humiliate Tyrion that much.
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I'm not so sure, I wonder if Tyrion was in the position Tywin was in that he might come to see things in a similar manner. In the first book Tyrion has good instinct for politics but little experience, so while he had some success as the hand of the king he also made fatal mistakes, when the dust settled he lost everything because he didn't make the right friends.

It's just speculation, but I think if he was head of the Lannisters, and backed into a corner by his grandson executing Ned, as well as suffering a nearly catastrophic defeat at the hands of Robb, he may well have chosen to engage in the Red Wedding, especially if he saw no other way to win.

Tyrion has a good heart in there somewhere, but he also has a lust for revenge, if he was battling with vipers like Cersei, Varys and Littlefinger for power I think he would realize that there's no room there for worrying about honor.

I would guess that Tyrion's experiences are ultimately going to humble him, and he will end up as a wise advisor to Dany, but he could have just as easily turned into Tywin, imo.
 
I disagree with you that he made some fatal mistakes as the hand but I agree with the other bits. He might not necessarily come with the idea for the Red Wedding but I think he would accept the plan in that situation. I can't see a reason why not.

When he was the hand he was in a difficult position. It was only temporary and the other ruler in the premise was a person that has hated him forever. He got pally with Varys and that probably saved his life (that or his character traits which Varys thought were worth saving) and he knew better than to cuddle with Littlefinger so what else was there to do in the friend department for him?

He is a Lannister though. They're line of morality is drawn lower than what the North is used too. The people might act all civil on the surface but the truth is that a big portion of people in this book will do whatever it takes. They do seem however to mostly stem from the South.
 
Tyrion was certainly put in a tough position by his father in asking him to be the Hand. Tyrion seems put out when removed from the post, but that is naive of him, surely he knew better than to think Tywin wouldn't take the position himself sooner rather than later. Not planning for that is a mistake, I think.

I would say Tyrion made a mistake when he took the position without an agreement in place to move him on to a position of equal or nearly equal status when it was over, where his status would mean he would have been able to maintain his allies instead of losing them all to Cersei. Surely Tywin knew he would need to make friends, through favors and money, in order to achieve anything as the Hand. But who would take Tyrion's side over Cersei in King's Landing if Tyrion isn't here to stay? I have a hard time believing Tywin is ignorant of the large amount of power Cersei wields in court. Though to be fair it could be that Tywin didn't realize quite how powerful Cersei is in King's Landing, as he's obviously unaware of some of her activities.

If Tyrion wasn't going to have any hope of matching Cersei in friends and alliances then he never should have tried to oppose her in the way he did. He was going to have to steer her into certain directions, but he didn't have to threaten Tommen and he could have made a point of deferring to Cersei whenever possible, and refrained from all the insults.

Perhaps if Tyrion had taken a much more ruthless approach he could have overwhelmed Cersei, by executing all her closest conspirators, but he never seemed to take the 'game of thrones' quite that seriously. As we know, half measures in this game only get you killed. But I don't think Tyrion's character is about becoming a master of lies, I think he'll find some way to redeem himself, so I'm not disappointed he didn't succeed.

Though it could be that Tywin was trying to destroy Tyrion again, just like when he put him in the vanguard, and there was no way for Tyrion to come out ahead. Perhaps the mistake was his pride being unable to refuse a seeming offer of power and respect from his father.
 
Going into the final 100 pages. Not much has happened in the book expect Danny finally mounting Drogon and the appearance of young Aegon. Now I think the real deal starts.
 
After 48 days, I finally finished them. I think that Jon won't be dead while Stannis really could have died.

My final thought, why Varys did all of this? Was it simply because it's Aegon right to rule Westeros, or perhaps something more?
 
I think Varys is doing it because he thinks a Targaryen (preferably sane) on the throne will keep Westeros more United than any other family. Not so much because he sees them as "rightful" rulers, but because he believes the populace sees them that way. So for the moment, he needs to destablise the current regime so as to make it vulnerable for Aegon and/or Danaerys.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
After 48 days, I finally finished them. I think that Jon won't be dead while Stannis really could have died.

My final thought, why Varys did all of this? Was it simply because it's Aegon right to rule Westeros, or perhaps something more?
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I think that he's doing what he believes is best for the people. Rhaegar was reputed to be a great leader and person, which is who Varys wanted to be King over Robert. I think that if the long-game had been right, Varys would have worked to keep Ned alive and in power, but the way things were falling it would only have hurt him. He's one of the few people who appear to look out for "the Realm". Aside from staying alive himself, he has very few interests.

Knowing Aegon's father and the man who raised him probably gave him faith that he would be a better ruler than any of the Lannisters(Baratheons). Killing Kevan removes one more competent player. Without him, King's Landing has very little experience or leadership.

Also, as Bebe said, he may see the Targaryen's may be better at maintaining order than kings from one of the major houses. Because the Wardens and other lords have their own allegiances and concerns, the Targaryen's just have a small rock and a few islands for family territory. They don't play as much a part in the struggles of the great houses.

Ultimately, Varys goes with the winning team as long as it will keep him alive.
 
Sir Matt said:
I think that he's doing what he believes is best for the people. Rhaegar was reputed to be a great leader and person, which is who Varys wanted to be King over Robert. I think that if the long-game had been right, Varys would have worked to keep Ned alive and in power, but the way things were falling it would only have hurt him. He's one of the few people who appear to look out for "the Realm". Aside from staying alive himself, he has very few interests.

Knowing Aegon's father and the man who raised him probably gave him faith that he would be a better ruler than any of the Lannisters(Baratheons). Killing Kevan removes one more competent player. Without him, King's Landing has very little experience or leadership.

Also, as Bebe said, he may see the Targaryen's may be better at maintaining order than kings from one of the major houses. Because the Wardens and other lords have their own allegiances and concerns, the Targaryen's just have a small rock and a few islands for family territory. They don't play as much a part in the struggles of the great houses.

Ultimately, Varys goes with the winning team as long as it will keep him alive.
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It could be this.

It was very funny how varys said to Ser Kevan that you were undoing the good work Cersei has done. Really, Kevan was one of the few compotent players in Kings Landing. Now, without him if Cersei become queen again, I think that Aegon wouldn't have that much difficulty of fighting his war.

It would be really interesting seeing who will be his queen. My wild card go for Sansa, it is really logical the game of thrones ending there who began (Rhaegar with Lyana).

But for me even more important is what will happen with Stannis and Jon. I refuse to believe that Stannis has died in that way.I think that ultimatelly he will die, but he has to play a more important role. Jon surely is alive.

And finally, I think that in the next book Danny finally will control her dragons.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
It could be this.

It was very funny how varys said to Ser Kevan that you were undoing the good work Cersei has done. Really, Kevan was one of the few compotent players in Kings Landing. Now, without him if Cersei become queen again, I think that Aegon wouldn't have that much difficulty of fighting his war.

It would be really interesting seeing who will be his queen. My wild card go for Sansa, it is really logical the game of thrones ending there who began (Rhaegar with Lyana).

But for me even more important is what will happen with Stannis and Jon. I refuse to believe that Stannis has died in that way.I think that ultimatelly he will die, but he has to play a more important role. Jon surely is alive.

And finally, I think that in the next book Danny finally will control her dragons.
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I don't think there's gonna be any happiesh endings. But I think it's miore likely Dany and Jon will hook up, than Aegon and Sansa. Although Littlefinger might be keen on that.
 
MichaelS said:
I don't think there's gonna be any happiesh endings. But I think it's miore likely Dany and Jon will hook up, than Aegon and Sansa. Although Littlefinger might be keen on that.
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Of course that it won't be a happy ending. Many other important characters will die. But someone will be king and someone queen (maybe not) and my bet is on Aegon and Sansa.

Dany and Jon IMO will have a crucial role against The Others.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Of course that it won't be a happy ending. Many other important characters will die. But someone will be king and someone queen (maybe not) and my bet is on Aegon and Sansa.

Dany and Jon IMO will have a crucial role against The Others.
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I think Aegon will bite the bullet fairly quickly. He's just been thrown in there fairly randomly. Don't think he'll serve the story much purpose apart from introducing more chaos.
 
niMic said:
The Red Wedding is confirmed for Season 3.

Shit just got real.
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Surely that will be in the episode 9.


MichaelS said:
I think Aegon will bite the bullet fairly quickly. He's just been thrown in there fairly randomly. Don't think he'll serve the story much purpose apart from introducing more chaos.
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I think that he has a role bigger than that but we cannot know what GM thinks.
 
All caught up. Felt stuff peaked at book 3. Too much stuff I didn't care about in 4 and 5. I fecking hate all the iron born water stuff. Wish Asha would die already, along with all the new characters at Meereen.

Watching The Red Wedding will be great. Hope they do it right. It should be as sudden and quick as possible. You cannot afford to have any foreshadowing like in the books.

On TV, people will get suspicious straight away. If they show grey wind freaking out 5 minutes before the wedding they'll immediately think "they must have showed that for a reason".

If they do it to end episode 9 or 10 though, again, people will have an inkling that something big is about to happen. I basically want it to be as surprising as possible.
 
kps88 said:
All caught up. Felt stuff peaked at book 3. Too much stuff I didn't care about in 4 and 5. I fecking hate all the iron born water stuff. Wish Asha would die already, along with all the new characters at Meereen.

Watching The Red Wedding will be great. Hope they do it right. It should be as sudden and quick as possible. You cannot afford to have any foreshadowing like in the books.

On TV, people will get suspicious straight away. If they show grey wind freaking out 5 minutes before the wedding they'll immediately think "they must have showed that for a reason".

If they do it to end episode 9 or 10 though, again, people will have an inkling that something big is about to happen. I basically want it to be as surprising as possible.
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Agree with that. I don't care about the iron islands. Also wish Dany with get her ass westward. Also I want samwell to die. I not a fan of fat nervous sidekicks.
 
niMic said:
Essentially, it will be like defending the wall against a bunch of slightly bigger four year-olds.
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There wouldn't be much for the dragons to do if the white walkers were stopped at the wall!

A Song of Ice and Fire.

Jon's death may result in a fatal weakening of the Watch. Perhaps they and the wildings on the wall go to war, allowing the white walkers, leading an army of wights, to march south unopposed.
 
Will Absolute said:
There wouldn't be much for the dragons to do if the white walkers were stopped at the wall!

A Song of Ice and Fire.

Jon's death may result in a fatal weakening of the Watch. Perhaps they and the wildings on the wall go to war, allowing the white walkers, leading an army of wights, to march south unopposed.
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I seriously doubt that Jon has died. Stannis maybe but Jon not. From the beginning he was gone from Stark family because I think he will have a big role in the war, not dying before the war has begin.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
I seriously doubt that Jon has died. Stannis maybe but Jon not. From the beginning he was gone from Stark family because I think he will have a big role in the war, not dying before the war has begin.
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Martin likes to maim, torture, and kill his characters. The rationalisation for this kink is 'realism' - life is random, cruelty is part of the fabric, bad things happen to good people, evil sometimes wins etc.

So I wouldn't bet a farthing on the survival of John Snow. I think he's gone the way of Eddard Stark.
 
There's absolutely no way Jon Snow is dead, as in completely out of the series. It's completely impossible. If it somehow did happen, it would be terrible writing. What would be the point? I like his "realistic" style as much as anyone, but you don't just kill off a character and a storyline that has seen so much time devoted to it. Early? Yes. At the end? Sure. But a couple of books before the end? No way.

Who has he killed off this way? He killed off Eddard, which was at the very beginning of trhe series, setting up the entire plot. He killed off Robb, but that was a character which hadn't really been one of the main viewpoint characters lately.
 
niMic said:
There's absolutely no way Jon Snow is dead, as in completely out of the series. It's completely impossible. If it somehow did happen, it would be terrible writing. What would be the point? I like his "realistic" style as much as anyone, but you don't just kill off a character and a storyline that has seen so much time devoted to it. Early? Yes. At the end? Sure. But a couple of books before the end? No way.

Who has he killed off this way? He killed off Eddard, which was at the very beginning of trhe series, setting up the entire plot. He killed off Robb, but that was a character which hadn't really been one of the main viewpoint characters lately.
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I think my post pretty well covered that. Life doesn't have a 'point'.

By normal standards, killing off a character like John Snow would be perverse. But Martin is perverse. I suspect, of all his creations, he most ressembles Ramsey Bolton. :smirk:
 
Jon definitely isn't dead. Everything points toward him being the prince that was promised. Assor asshai and all that shit. He'll warg into ghost or something rather. Always felt Jon was the main protagonist of the series.

Everyone is getting rescurrected. Jon will too with that sexy kinky red woman around.
 
MichaelS said:
Jon definitely isn't dead. Everything points toward him being the prince that was promised. Assor asshai and all that shit. He'll warg into ghost or something rather. Always felt Jon was the main protagonist of the series.

Everyone is getting rescurrected. Jon will too with that sexy kinky red woman around.
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Absolutely. It's not only cruel to kill him, it would be nonsense. He spent much time in Jon to kill him before the final war.

And it could be that he is the prince that was promised, especially if he's Rhaegar's son with Eddard's sister. I cannot know if Jon will die in the end, but for now there is no chance that he is dead.
 
MichaelS said:
Jon definitely isn't dead. Everything points toward him being the prince that was promised. Assor asshai and all that shit. He'll warg into ghost or something rather. Always felt Jon was the main protagonist of the series.

Everyone is getting rescurrected. Jon will too with that sexy kinky red woman around.
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It's possible. But he's used that device already with Catelyn.

He'll be hesitant to do it again. Too much like a cheap cheat.
 
Will Absolute said:
I think my post pretty well covered that. Life doesn't have a 'point'.

By normal standards, killing off a character like John Snow would be perverse. But Martin is perverse. I suspect, of all his creations, he most ressembles Ramsey Bolton. :smirk:
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But this isn't life, this is a literary work. All of his deaths so far have been for a purpose. And none of them have been as big as Jon. Jon has been a (perhaps the) viewpoint character since book 1. Eddard was for book 1, but that was to set up the entire series. Robb wasn't really a main viewpoint character. He's much more prominent in the tv series. Killing off Jon now would be like killing off Dany. It just wouldn't happen. They might end up dying at the very end of the series, but not with several books left.

Martin might be aiming for brutal realism, but he's not stupid, nor is he a poor writer. He doesn't just kill off people to prove how brutal he is. Believe me, there's absolutely no way Jon is dead. He might be dead for a bit, and then be resurrected. He might live on in animals. He might be the fairy bloody godmother, but he's not dead.
 
The perverse nature of Martin is overrated and it is purely down to the Red Wedding where he kept the main character around (UnCat) and the death of Eddard Stark which had a point to it.

Martin is not like Ramsay, he is most like Tyrion where everything he does has a point. Killing Jon like Ned Stark has a little or no point at all.

But in any case that's how I view it. I'm a firm believer that Jon's lineage is to play a big role later on.
 
niMic said:
But this isn't life, this is a literary work. All of his deaths so far have been for a purpose. And none of them have been as big as Jon. Jon has been a (perhaps the) viewpoint character since book 1. Eddard was for book 1, but that was to set up the entire series. Robb wasn't really a main viewpoint character. He's much more prominent in the tv series. Killing off Jon now would be like killing off Dany. It just wouldn't happen. They might end up dying at the very end of the series, but not with several books left.

Martin might be aiming for brutal realism, but he's not stupid, nor is he a poor writer. He doesn't just kill off people to prove how brutal he is. Believe me, there's absolutely no way Jon is dead. He might be dead for a bit, and then be resurrected. He might live on in animals. He might be the fairy bloody godmother, but he's not dead.
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I don't think Martin has much affection for any of his characters. Nor do I believe he worked out a complete plotline before he began. A problem which raised it's ugly head after A Storm of Swords.

It's possible Martin originally envisaged an important role for John Snow. But he's clearly lost his way in the last couple of books. So all bets are off.
 
dunno about him not haveing any affection for his characters, i'm sure i saw an interview of his where he said the starks were his favourites, i get the feeling they'll be the ones that win out in the end, tbf they deserve a break!
 
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