Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?

InfiniteBoredom said:
So the Children of the Forest created the Whitewalkers?

Not sure I'd buy that, but it does explain the strenuous tie with the Starks (First Men etc..)

Oh and the red priest who is supposed to be Moqorro is :drool:
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Yeah, I was wondering how they'll get around to telling a story about Long Winter but it looks like the Children of the forest take the credit for it. The season on the scene looks like it's Fall/Autumn instead of a winter. That was a bit of a mess. Also this entire 'I command you to find a cure' to Jorah Mormont was a bit dim. No one knows a cure Khalessi, just feck off instead of asking a guy to wander around the world and then die. As expected, Victarian Greyjoy is cut from the show.
 
Euron Greyjoy, much like Bloodraven, has more eyes than he's supposed to. It's a small detail that adds to the mystery of his character. I guess they decided to be extra blunt with the whole Euron killing Balon as well. Aeron also hates his brother but is apparently willing to go along with whatever Euron does. They're dumbing down the Iron Islands like they did Dorne.

I guess at least there hasn't been any more Dorne.
 
I fast forwarded the first watch, now I'm watching it in normal time, and the Arya part...:wenger:

Jesus, I don't need to know his cock has 2 warts on it, much less see it :mad:
 
Ijazz17 said:
Oh, thanks. I keep getting confused between them.



Has Revan mentioned that he can't change the past ?? I just don't get the logic of the episode as well. I thought Bran needed to hold a branch of that tree to get flashbacks or something. I really hope they don't go down this route. Many people have already started suggesting the Mad King goes Mad becomes of Bran, which I really hope isn't true. That sort of story development would take a fair few episodes to execute as well and it will also involve looking at the character development for the mad king which is next to impossible at this stage.
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@Revan ?
 
Aerys went mad after being held hostage in Duskendale. After that point he suspected a conspiracy between Tywin and Rhaegar so went very paranoid and brought Varys over to provide intelligence.

He then never left the red keep and never shaved since he wanted no blades but his kingsguards in his presence.

If bran has any involvement it will cheapen what happened.

Probably the saddest episode to date. Only Shireen burning came close.

Summer was the only time I've ever verbalised a 'no' while watching GoT. Hodor may actually be the most tragic character in the show. Poor guy, his life ruined from childhood and killed all in one tragic moment.
Wonder if he'll return as a wight?
 
Brienne going to Riverrun can possibly mean Lady Stoneheart and they can also build up to the Elder brothers. I'm also hoping they'll bring back Nymeria at the Trident in this season itself.

harshad said:
Would I be correct in assuming that all the Children are now dead at least in the show or could there be similar tunnels beneath weirwood trees where more Children could be residing.
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Even in the books, it appears they are all dead, except the group that serves the Bloodraven. There are like 5 or 6 of them. They do say that the caves on which they live haven't been explored even by them.

harshad said:
Has Revan mentioned that he can't change the past ?? I just don't get the logic of the episode as well. I thought Bran needed to hold a branch of that tree to get flashbacks or something. I really hope they don't go down this route. Many people have already started suggesting the Mad King goes Mad becomes of Bran, which I really hope isn't true. That sort of story development would take a fair few episodes to execute as well and it will also involve looking at the character development for the mad king which is next to impossible at this stage.

@Revan ?
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Is that a show thread post? There are two theories of Bran's past

1) Bran caused Aerys the mad king to go mad as he became infatuated with fire after a reasonable start to his monarchy. It could be construed that Bran wanted Aerys to kill the white walkers with fire. I personally think it's bullshit because Aerys went mad mainly because of his mistrust between Tywin and the Duckensdale kidnapping. There are many reasons for him going mad progressively and from a show's perspective, it would be an unforgivable cop out to blame it on one single intervention by Bran

2) Bran is actually Bran the builder who founded Stark dynasty and built the wall during the age of the heroes (or at least who intervened with Bran the builder's life)
feck GRRM if he somehow blames it on all on time travel
 
Drainy said:
Aerys went mad after being held hostage in Duskendale. After that point he suspected a conspiracy between Tywin and Rhaegar so went very paranoid and brought Varys over to provide intelligence.

He then never left the red keep and never shaved since he wanted no blades but his kingsguards in his presence.

If bran has any involvement it will cheapen what happened.

Probably the saddest episode to date. Only Shireen burning came close.

Summer was the only time I've ever verbalised a 'no' while watching GoT. Hodor may actually be the most tragic character in the show. Poor guy, his life ruined from childhood and killed all in one tragic moment.
Wonder if he'll return as a wight?
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I hope Hodor is alive, as they don't show him as dead. Wights just kill and he hasn't been turned into a wight by white walkers yet.
 
I knew it! The Hodor bit. Well, not the specifics but I was sure that a Bran intervention in one of his flashbacks would be the reason for his condition. I wasn't sure how exactly, thought it'd be just an innocent "Hi Hodor" or something like that :lol:. To teach him a lesson about the dangers of doing stuff while in the past etc. I suppose that's better though.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Brienne going to Riverrun can possibly mean Lady Stoneheart and they can also build up to the Elder brothers. I'm also hoping they'll bring back Nymeria at the Trident in this season itself.



Even in the books, it appears they are all dead, except the group that serves the Bloodraven. There are like 5 or 6 of them. They do say that the caves on which they live haven't been explored even by them.



Is that a show thread post? There are two theories of Bran's past

1) Bran caused Aerys the mad king to go mad as he became infatuated with fire after a reasonable start to his monarchy. It could be construed that Bran wanted Aerys to kill the white walkers with fire. I personally think it's bullshit because Aerys went mad mainly because of his mistrust between Tywin and the Duckensdale kidnapping. There are many reasons for him going mad progressively and from a show's perspective, it would be an unforgivable cop out to blame it on one single intervention by Bran

2) Bran is actually Bran the builder who founded Stark dynasty and built the wall during the age of the heroes (or at least who intervened with Bran the builder's life)
feck GRRM if he somehow blames it on all on time travel
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Yeah show related. Ijazz started talking about Revan saying something about Bran's powers. He actually meant the 3ER and misspelt it.
 
I suppose that was it for the warmth between Sansa and Jon. I think there will be a conflict there, down the line. At least going by today's scenes.

The most interesting thing today (well, after the WW creation) was that mark though. It broke the magic barrier of the cave, so I assume this could be the case with The Wall, as well? They can now cross it. Or perhaps Bran can't, now that he has a mark. Or both.
 
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On thin ice here. Time travel can go off the rails very quickly.

Also wonder if GRM knew what Hodor was short for from the beginning or he just reversed engineered it when he thought it kind of sounds like "hold the door".
 
Yeah, I'm really really not liking this whole time-travel predestination stuff. It's awfully messy.
 
Scarecrow said:
The most interesting thing today (well, after the WW creation) was that mark though. It broke the magic barrier of the cave, so I assume this could be the case with The Wall, as well? They can now cross it. Or perhaps Bran can't, now that he has a mark. Or both.
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There was also a trademark D&D subtle comment from Jon to Dolorous Edd about the wall when leaving: 'try not to break it'. Almost said with a grin and a direct wink at the camera in the same way Sam said to Olly, 'don't worry, Jon always comes back!'
 
Btw how bad was the scene between Baelish and Sansa?

Littlefinger basically being a proxy for the showrunners apologising for messing up both characters

The acting was awful as well. Akward as hell
 
If he's warging him in the present then how does that affect the past? It doesn't really make any sense, but then they don't seem to give a shit about logic most of the time.
 
Art Vandelay said:
If he's warging him in the present then how does that affect the past? It doesn't really make any sense, but then they don't seem to give a shit about logic most of the time.
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Watching the post episode review on HBO, D&D are claiming that Hodor's story line in the show is what GRRM told them it was. Magic, not making complete sense, go figure. Something, something attached to the tree, while visiting the past, then warging while viewing the past, connection made with present and past Hodor, something, something, dragons, zombies, raising people from the dead, immunity to fire, blah blah balh
 
The Hodor stuff was done really well imo and according to the show runners, that's straight from George. Pulled on the ole heart strings.

Normally I'd be bummed about losing yet another slew of interesting characters, but one assumes we're now heading firmly towards endgame. I wouldn't be surprised if that's it for Brann this season, except maybe him reaching the wall in a brief scene. I also like how Brann manages to just keep f*cking everything up because he's an idiot who doesn't listen.

Baelish was totally botched as Drainy said. Such a shame, such a good book charcter but maybe you just can't have that on screen with only a few minutes a season. Dunno.

Might be a stupid question, but as we know Brann can keep the whole in the past thing outside of the magical tree, why can't he go back and unmake the White Walkers? He now knows precisely when and where it happened. Could the show go all Lost and ruin itself with the ending?
 
JustAFan said:
Watching the post episode review on HBO, D&D are claiming that Hodor's story line in the show is what GRRM told them it was. Magic, not making complete sense, go figure. Something, something attached to the tree, while visiting the past, then warging while viewing the past, connection made with present and past Hodor, something, something, dragons, zombies, raising people from the dead, immunity to fire, blah blah balh
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Time is not linear to a heart tree. Martin made a point of explaining about that the first time Bran warged to the past. And Bran's power clearly enables his presence to be felt even in the past, as when Ned was praying and he called out to him from the tree.

Not exactly scientific, but sort of make sense, for a fantasy.
 
Beachryan said:
The Hodor stuff was done really well imo and according to the show runners, that's straight from George. Pulled on the ole heart strings.

Normally I'd be bummed about losing yet another slew of interesting characters, but one assumes we're now heading firmly towards endgame. I wouldn't be surprised if that's it for Brann this season, except maybe him reaching the wall in a brief scene. I also like how Brann manages to just keep f*cking everything up because he's an idiot who doesn't listen.

Baelish was totally botched as Drainy said. Such a shame, such a good book charcter but maybe you just can't have that on screen with only a few minutes a season. Dunno.

Might be a stupid question, but as we know Brann can keep the whole in the past thing outside of the magical tree, why can't he go back and unmake the White Walkers? He now knows precisely when and where it happened. Could the show go all Lost and ruin itself with the ending?
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Nah, I think he's going to be massively important and one of the key characters as the show heads to its endgame.
 
I have no complaints about the Hodor scene. I'm sure if I go into it deep enough I'll find that something is off but it always is when time travel is concerned, especially when mixed with magic and warging and the likes. As long as its not obviously absurd and works on a superficial level, I've fine with it. I think this was done well.
 
People saying this was the best episode yet, really? Seems like the show watchers only care about wars and fight scenes... They hated Bran until this season and now his story arc is the most exciting one of all just because the White Walkers are involved?

It was an average episode imo, especially the ending. Dany/Jorah was cringeworthy, the Red Priestess (Moqorro?) startling Varys like that out of nowhere, the awkward scene between Sansa and Littlefinger, ... The ending was poor and I really hope GRRM makes it more believable or makes sure everyone understands what's going on when he gets to that point. So, nobody can see Bran except for the Walkers who can see and even touch him, leaving a mark in the present? Also, Bran can hear people in the present when he's warging? And why should he have to warg into Hodor in the past for actions taking place in the present? I was disappointed with that whole final scene.

The only great things were that actress' fabulous tits and the creation of the White Walkers by the Children of the Forest. Seems strange to have included Sam as well a couple of episodes back and now don't mention him at all anymore.
 
RobinLFC said:
People saying this was the best episode yet, really? Seems like the show watchers only care about wars and fight scenes... They hated Bran until this season and now his story arc is the most exciting one of all just because the White Walkers are involved?

It was an average episode imo, especially the ending. Dany/Jorah was cringeworthy, the Red Priestess (Moqorro?) startling Varys like that out of nowhere, the awkward scene between Sansa and Littlefinger, ... The ending was poor and I really hope GRRM makes it more believable or makes sure everyone understands what's going on when he gets to that point. So, nobody can see Bran except for the Walkers who can see and even touch him, leaving a mark in the present? Also, Bran can hear people in the present when he's warging? And why should he have to warg into Hodor in the past for actions taking place in the present? I was disappointed with that whole final scene.

The only great things were that actress' fabulous tits and the creation of the White Walkers by the Children of the Forest. Seems strange to have included Sam as well a couple of episodes back and now don't mention him at all anymore.
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Dany Jorah was definitely cringe inducing. I'm more pissed off that Moqorro isn't in the show at all. Sansa and Littlefinger, whatever more you expected from that scene?

I'm pissed off with the time travel part, but Hodor is only a minor part in the story and if it's the end of it, I'm all for this. If it had come from Martin himself, that was a well shot sequence. Bran is a unique character. He's not only a greenseer, but also has warging capabilities. Bloodraven/Brynder Rivers didn't have this power and a lot of this seeing the past/having effect on the future is unique to Bran alone. It's explainable but hopefully doesn't explain everything.

I think you are right to complain on many things and the potential impact of bran's ability, but some of your complaints are too harsh. IMO

As for the show watchers, they are now speculating if Bran made Aerys mad and if he is indeed Bran the builder. There's just no way that a show watcher can speculate about Aerys or Bran the builder. There's no mention of the age of heroes as well as the character make up Aerys in the show ever. They have clearly researched fan theories and running wild now. For a thread that banned R+L=J, they are having their fun now. Their biggest problem is deciding what is a spoiler/a spoiler than can be posted in a spoiler/normal post. Tough.
 
Is it just me or the acting in the show is getting progressively worse? Tyrion, Davos, Jorah, Varys are still excellent but the others seem to be phoning it in. Littlefinger didn't have an ounce of gravita/slyness in that dreadful scene. Clarke is Clarke and how Turner got that XMen role I'd never know.
 
fishfingers15 said:
As for the show watchers, they are now speculating if Bran made Aerys mad and if he is indeed Bran the builder. There's just no way that a show watcher can speculate about Aerys or Bran the builder. There's no mention of the age of heroes as well as the character make up Aerys in the show ever. They have clearly researched fan theories and running wild now. For a thread that banned R+L=J, they are having their fun now. Their biggest problem is deciding what is a spoiler/a spoiler than can be posted in a spoiler/normal post. Tough.
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There's absolutely no way in hell that some of the guys in the Show thread are only using Show knowledge. I will enjoy the inevitable meltdown when they realise that.
 
This is a car crash of a post by Amol

Mixed feelings about episode 5. All of it was well done, the final scene particularly so, however:

- Couldn't really be bothered about Mr. Friendzone and what seemed to be scene out of a teen movie.

- The origin of the Whitewalkers - again, it's a scene, but they explain nothing. How did they actually create whitewalkers by sticking a knife/rod/whatever that was into a guy's chest?!

- Euron Grejoy is a really uninteresting character. Please waste less scenes on him.

- The last scene - Good fun, and I liked the "hold the door" bit, but do people really care so much about characters such as Hodor and the three eyed raven to be so devastated ?

A good point about Jorah and Dany, but the rest of the post is Meh. This is a problem with show watchers and show. No character build up often reduces interesting characters to nothing. On the show, Euron is supposed to be Euron+Victarian too.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Is it just me or the acting in the show is getting progressively worse? Tyrion, Davos, Jorah, Varys are still excellent but the others seem to be phoning it in. Littlefinger didn't have an ounce of gravita/slyness in that dreadful scene. Clarke is Clarke and how Turner got that XMen role I'd never know.
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Probably has to do with having to pick the actors young? Same issue with Harry Potter movies too. Superb supporting cast with Snape, Mcgonagall but let down by child actors because they resembled the characters in early age.
 
fishfingers15 said:
This is a car crash of a post by Amol

Mixed feelings about episode 5. All of it was well done, the final scene particularly so, however:

- Couldn't really be bothered about Mr. Friendzone and what seemed to be scene out of a teen movie.

- The origin of the Whitewalkers - again, it's a scene, but they explain nothing. How did they actually create whitewalkers by sticking a knife/rod/whatever that was into a guy's chest?!

- Euron Grejoy is a really uninteresting character. Please waste less scenes on him.

- The last scene - Good fun, and I liked the "hold the door" bit, but do people really care so much about characters such as Hodor and the three eyed raven to be so devastated ?

A good point about Jorah and Dany, but the rest of the post is Meh. This is a problem with show watchers and show. No character build up often reduces interesting characters to nothing. On the show, Euron is supposed to be Euron+Victarian too.
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He's going to be disappointed, I guess.
 
I bet we'll see Benjen in the next episode.
the preview shows Meera and Bran chased and surrounded by the zombies, so someone definitely helps them escape
I don't know if it's going to go down the same way in the books but there's no way the show introduces a new character for this.
 
RobinLFC said:
He's going to be disappointed, I guess.
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He's right so far though, to be fair. Show Euron has been a disappointment for me. They've kept nothing of the mystery that made him interesting in the books. Looks like just another generic bad guy.
 
Just realized that Coldhands is completely out of the show.

Scarecrow said:
He's right so far though, to be fair. Show Euron has been a disappointment for me. They've kept nothing of the mystery that made him interesting in the books. Looks like just another generic bad guy.
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He had less than 4 minutes of screentime and he has killed a king and he's mysterious. I don't know how a guy can be disappointing based on that.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Probably has to do with having to pick the actors young? Same issue with Harry Potter movies too. Superb supporting cast with Snape, Mcgonagall but let down by child actors because they resembled the characters in early age.
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It's not just that though, Headey, Coster-Waldau etc have hardly been pulling up trees with their acting the last season or two. Maybe the writing is responsible for the decline, since it's hard to make up for poor dialogue but I still have this nagging feeling that as is the case with most long running shows, some actors/actresses are losing their enthusiasm and start going through the motions.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
It's not just that though, Headey, Coster-Waldau etc have hardly been pulling up trees with their acting the last season or two. Maybe the writing is responsible for the decline, since it's hard to make up for poor dialogue but I still have this nagging feeling that as is the case with most long running shows, some actors/actresses are losing their enthusiasm and start going through the motions.
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Headey didn't appear too bad and I think Dorne episodes permanently scareed Coster-Waldau :lol:

I get your point thhough.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Is it just me or the acting in the show is getting progressively worse? Tyrion, Davos, Jorah, Varys are still excellent but the others seem to be phoning it in. Littlefinger didn't have an ounce of gravita/slyness in that dreadful scene. Clarke is Clarke and how Turner got that XMen role I'd never know.
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Wasn't that the whole point about that scene. He is put on the backfoot immediately by Sansa and has no answer to give her. There is no way he gets back from there. You can see at the end of the scene he is able to create enough doubt regarding Jon in Sansa's mind, which leads to Sansa lying to Jon about where she got the information regarding Blackfish.
 
fishfingers15 said:
He had less than 4 minutes of screentime and he has killed a king and he's mysterious. I don't know how a guy can be disappointing based on that.
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The problem is he's not really Euron, going by what he says. It's Euron's body with the plot of Quentyn? I don't know why they didn't just have him as the badass Euron pretty much is in the book, with his dragon horn and eye-patch (although that is likely to probably look quite silly as a prop). Could've been a similar(ish) figure to what Oberyn was a few seasons back.
 
DWelbz19 said:
The problem is he's not really Euron, going by what he says. It's Euron's body with the plot of Quentyn? I don't know why they didn't just have him as the badass Euron pretty much is in the book, with his dragon horn and eye-patch (although that is likely to probably look quite silly as a prop). Could've been a similar(ish) figure to what Oberyn was a few seasons back.
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Well, we know Euron and Victarian from the books, so he may look less than awesome, but the show readers have no job feeling disappointed with him. Just been introduced, killed a king, admitted he killed a king, then told the audience about taking ships to Dany which will be an important story arc when Yara/Asha was stumbling around saying 'I'll build a fleet', and becomes King and yet disappointing?
 
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