Books A Song of Ice and Fire (Books) | TV show? What TV show?
- Thread starter Massive Spanner
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@Petr1 Apparently, you have to touch the infected area, which was somewhere on Jorah's left forearm.
@Theafonis
Ah, i guessed it had to be something like that. Thanks! Imagine his face if he had slipped and given her the left hand
Ah, i guessed it had to be something like that. Thanks! Imagine his face if he had slipped and given her the left hand
Disappointing ep after last week, really annoyed with the Shireen sacrifice. I guess next week we have Cersei's walk, Doran's speech and John getting stabbed.
Could you refresh my memory?
Pretty much everything about that scene was shit.
1. Ramsay being able to destroy Stannis's camp by burning all the tents simultaneously in a blizzard with twenty fecking men and not a single one of them gets captured. And Stannis is one of the best commander in Westeros...
2. Davos clearly knew what was happening. He risks his life to save Gendry but does nothing for Shireen?
3. Why was there any need to need to have the Stannis-Shireen scene earlier on in the season if this was the intended ending? Done purely for the shock and nothing else which is pathetic.
4. Selyse who has done nothing but hate on her daughter for the entire series is shown to have more empathy than Stannis?
Show Stannis has been shit for most of the show but in one moment they've made him the worst guy in the entire series. Even the likes of Ramsay, Joffrey and Walder Frey look more sympathetic. What a waste of a great character.
I don't see how Stannis can ever burn Shireen in the books. Aside from the geographical difficulties that make it very difficult there's also the fact she's his sole heir. Not to mention he basically told his men to feck off when they suggested burning men to stop the snows. And then there was this in the WoW chapter:
Doesn't sound like a man in a hurry to burn his daughter. Even if in the unlikely chance that Stannis does authorize it, the context will likely be wildly different. Chances are it's Melisandre who does it without Stannis' knowledge or in the knowledge that Stannis is dead (pink letter).
Oh and Dorne was shit again. Why is Doran sending out his son to Kings Landing after his sister and brother got killed there? The entire "diplomatically sensitive mission" has been wank.
All I hope now is that Shireen's death has some effect or payoff. And it's not just a case of things returning to status quo after all of it.
There's no politics or anything resembling it in the show anymore. Unless you count Littlefinger going on a grand tour of Westeros on his private jetpack looking to manipulate everyone within sight.
1. Ramsay being able to destroy Stannis's camp by burning all the tents simultaneously in a blizzard with twenty fecking men and not a single one of them gets captured. And Stannis is one of the best commander in Westeros...
2. Davos clearly knew what was happening. He risks his life to save Gendry but does nothing for Shireen?
3. Why was there any need to need to have the Stannis-Shireen scene earlier on in the season if this was the intended ending? Done purely for the shock and nothing else which is pathetic.
4. Selyse who has done nothing but hate on her daughter for the entire series is shown to have more empathy than Stannis?
Show Stannis has been shit for most of the show but in one moment they've made him the worst guy in the entire series. Even the likes of Ramsay, Joffrey and Walder Frey look more sympathetic. What a waste of a great character.
I don't see how Stannis can ever burn Shireen in the books. Aside from the geographical difficulties that make it very difficult there's also the fact she's his sole heir. Not to mention he basically told his men to feck off when they suggested burning men to stop the snows. And then there was this in the WoW chapter:
"You will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt"
Doesn't sound like a man in a hurry to burn his daughter. Even if in the unlikely chance that Stannis does authorize it, the context will likely be wildly different. Chances are it's Melisandre who does it without Stannis' knowledge or in the knowledge that Stannis is dead (pink letter).
Oh and Dorne was shit again. Why is Doran sending out his son to Kings Landing after his sister and brother got killed there? The entire "diplomatically sensitive mission" has been wank.
All I hope now is that Shireen's death has some effect or payoff. And it's not just a case of things returning to status quo after all of it.
There's no politics or anything resembling it in the show anymore. Unless you count Littlefinger going on a grand tour of Westeros on his private jetpack looking to manipulate everyone within sight.
I think he gives some speech to Arianne (?) revealing his true intentions and she finally realises he isn't such a coward
"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother."
But no, lets just burn my daughter and sole heir because D&D don't understand how my character works.
I suppose this sets up Melisandre burning Shireen without Stannis' consent, maybe to resurrect Jon?
EDIT: I was looking for that above quote, @akash02 has summed it up much better than I have.
But no, lets just burn my daughter and sole heir because D&D don't understand how my character works.
I suppose this sets up Melisandre burning Shireen without Stannis' consent, maybe to resurrect Jon?
EDIT: I was looking for that above quote, @akash02 has summed it up much better than I have.
Speculation for the next episode
Shireen was burned before Jon was stabbed so are we to assume that Mel will not play a part in Jon's revival?
Sam is still at Castle Black by the way. Not even mentioned that he might go somewhere.
The lack of absolutely anyone in the North except for Stannis and the Boltons is ridiculous. One would've thought at least one of all the houses there would take sides or would be approached to do so, at least. It's ridiculous how much they simplify the politics. It feels so bland and unrealistic. The whole world, actually, is absolutely drained of any depth and color it has in the books or in the first seasons, even. After all the bragging in Season 1 about the new languages they invented specifically for the show, the richness of details, costumes, customs etc - now you can't say if the scene is in Braavos or Dorne.
The lack of absolutely anyone in the North except for Stannis and the Boltons is ridiculous. One would've thought at least one of all the houses there would take sides or would be approached to do so, at least. It's ridiculous how much they simplify the politics. It feels so bland and unrealistic. The whole world, actually, is absolutely drained of any depth and color it has in the books or in the first seasons, even. After all the bragging in Season 1 about the new languages they invented specifically for the show, the richness of details, costumes, customs etc - now you can't say if the scene is in Braavos or Dorne.
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If Jon does get stabbed, They'll need a sympathetic character about and hardly any other watch member (that isn't anti Jon) has had any lines this season, so the wider audience won't give a crap about some random watch member getting upset over Jon. Makes sense to keep him about in that respect.
If Jon lives, he can send Sam away. If Jon dies, Sam might "flee" with Gilly to Braavos?
In terms of Stannis (I've not seen the episode yet btw) It's not a great leap to see him burn Shireen. When we first saw him in the show, they were burning people on a beach alongside idolatry related to the seven. He killed his Brother and wanted to kill his bastard nephew. He burnt Mance for not bowing to him!
He is caught with dwindling food in a winter storm. I guess his decision is a case of kill one person to save the realm, or keep her alive and risk failing.
It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in the books!
Oh, that. The main characters in his plan have been cut from the show though. They'd have to come up with something else.
They've cast the entire Tarly family next season though. Surely, they are not going to keep him at the watch.
If you read the rest of my post, you'll see that I don't think they'll keep him there either. I just think they're keeping him there for the inevitable mutiny and/or stabbing.
They'll send him on his way afterwards.
Yeah, I knew they’d have to at least slightly simplify the politics, but they seem to have almost abandoned them. It’s a shame, since they were actually rather well done in the first couple of seasons, albeit mainly in King’s Landing. Tyrion’s scheming as Hand of the King for example was interesting, with numerous characters trying to work towards their own goals.
Apart from Beyond the Wall (arguably), they’ve basically abandoned them. No Karstarks, Umbers, Manderlys, Freys, or any of the other interesting houses from the books. Just Bolton vs Baratheon.
Even the KL politics have become really dull. Cersei’s fecked over the Tyrells, but there’s barely even any sense of the impact that could have either. The Greyjoys attacking the Reach isn’t there, while Jaime’s trip to the Riverlands has been abandoned, so we don’t have any perspective on what’s happening there with the Freys/Tullys etc. It’s gone from a show which was quite good at political intrigue, to one which has just pretty much abandoned it.
I think it makes more sense for Jon to send him to Oldtown with the new information he has (valyrian steel kills Others). Also, if Jon sends him he'll get a ship and a few men to leave which he will need to get there. On the flip side, if he flees or is chucked out he'll have to walk it to old town in a blizzard which doesn't make any sense.
Davos might make it back for the stabbing though so he might be the sympathetic guy of sorts.
But that is out because there's no Arianne, Quentyn, Aegon (for the eventual return to Westeros/possible marriage with Arianne). It's why I've been irritated about Dorne the whole season. All of the complexity of Doran is gone. Now he's just anti-war rather than a skilled operator.
Something something omgwhy Stannis.
I personally thought Stephen Dillane's acting in that final scene with Shireen was rather impressive. A difficult moment for a father, certainly.
I personally thought Stephen Dillane's acting in that final scene with Shireen was rather impressive. A difficult moment for a father, certainly.
As for Miss Targaryen, what do y'all reckon? Do we see her finding herself in the Dothraki Sea or something weird like her flying towards Dorne or something?
Ramsay's 20 fecking men
On a positive vibe, the Dorne scene was probably the best it has been at of the season. No coincidence that Doran - who is the only one who can actually act there - was at the centrepiece.
On a positive vibe, the Dorne scene was probably the best it has been at of the season. No coincidence that Doran - who is the only one who can actually act there - was at the centrepiece.
She's probably end up in fecking Tarth
Drogon will accidentally kill Rickon and Osha
Really bizarre episode, at this stage I've come to see the show as a purely visual spectacle,I don't really worry about the story too much because so much of it is either simplified,omitted or at odds with the books.I really can't wait until WoW so I can read about events with a bit of depth and background to them.
Some of the weirder moments in this episode:
-Why the hell didn't Jon sail to the other side of the wall.
-Thorne and most of the nights watch seem more concerned with passively-aggressively staring at Jon than the White Walkers.
-Ramsey twenty men thing was such a cop out to advance the story.Made zero sense.
-A game of slaps.Seriously, they should have just cut Dorne this season and used the Greyjoy storyline instead.
-Arya is taking a long time to do very little.
-The Unsullied continue to be the most overrated force in the world.
-Dany flys off,leaving her small band of followers still surrounding by a large number of the harpies.
Some of the weirder moments in this episode:
-Why the hell didn't Jon sail to the other side of the wall.
-Thorne and most of the nights watch seem more concerned with passively-aggressively staring at Jon than the White Walkers.
-Ramsey twenty men thing was such a cop out to advance the story.Made zero sense.
-A game of slaps.Seriously, they should have just cut Dorne this season and used the Greyjoy storyline instead.
-Arya is taking a long time to do very little.
-The Unsullied continue to be the most overrated force in the world.
-Dany flys off,leaving her small band of followers still surrounding by a large number of the harpies.
Fair point, I was just covering my bases on the small chance that Jon dies permanently or becomes perma-wolfed, and they continue with Sam's story.
In a space of a season and half, the Tv series has gone so off from the books when there hasn't been any reason to do so.
They want to wrap the show up in as few seasons as possible. They're trying to hurry things along.
Well, they have caught up with the books already. And the next book won't be released atleast till next year. It just messes with everything so far.
It was always going to happen. The tv people aren't going to wait around for GRRM, otherwise we'd be waiting years between the next few seasons. GRRM knew this and should have got his arse in gear years ago!
I expected another season before it caught up tbh. Thought there was enough material to justify it.
I seem to remember the show runners saying that they didn't want it to get to 10 seasons. It's already been 5, so I guess they're stepping things up a bit.
1) I doubt Davos actually knew for sure what was going to happen. I think he just had a bad feeling about the situation and suspected Mel would be giving advice along those lines. I doubt he actually thought Stannis would go through with it though....
2) They probably wanted to establish that Stannis was making a big sacrifice, the sort you can't turn back on. If we assume he realizes he isn't AA before he dies then he's gonna have that moment where he see he's sacrificed everything for nothing.
3) Guess Doran is sending him there for the same reason he sends one of the Sand Snakes in the book? A Dornish presence on the council will probably be important in the future. The real question is what he does with the sand snakes now, I think.
4) I would guess the major payoff from Shireens's death will be that it is the one thing that would make Davos abandon Stannis. Obviously in the books Davos and Stannis get separated and Stannis could likely be dead before Davos returns, so Davos will be left at a loose end in the north. Probably something similar will happen here except they've gone about it in another way. The end result will be Stannis dead and Davos free to rescue and wandering Stark kids in the area.
Also, they might actually want people to turn against Stannis. A lot of people probably thought he was the best choice to be king up to now so maybe they wanted to kill that notion?
1) That gift he gave her was a tell tale sign I reckon. Considering how much he did for Edric, he didn't even try and convince Stannis otherwise. I was hoping he would come back and stop it...
2) Possibly but I think it's solely there for the shock equivalent. It was an unnecessary scene and even out of character for a normally passive Stannis. It never even made sense for Stannis to bring them along to start of with. I'm just disappointed how far apart the book and show versions are.
3) Sand Snakes are bastards though and an insult to Cersie to boot which was why he sent them. This is another case where politics goes to shit. It doesn't make sense to send your heir to Kings Landing when the last 2 people have come back as bones. From DwD, this is what Doran says to Arianne when she wants to go there
And this Trystanne guy appears to be naive as feck which makes it worse. They really should have done the kingsmoot or stuck with the actual Dorne plotline. This hasn't been too good.
4) That's possible I guess. But Davos has been rather pointless this season so I'm not sure if that's enough of a payoff. Without Manderley Davos doesn't seem to have much of a role.He doesn't even know the Stark kids are alive right now.
Why turn people against Stannis though? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? He's the King who cares. He goes from people not really caring too much to rallying the North and taking on the Freys and Boltons. Even GRRM said this about him:
Some of these hare hilarious
Suprised to come in here and see so much bitching after such a good episode.
They weren't joking when they said the series was full on.
They weren't joking when they said the series was full on.
The first fight in the arena, accompanied by the interaction between Tyrion, Danny, Daario and Hizdahr, was brilliant. They were all being know-it-all pricks to him for no reason, and the guy clearly knows his gladiator stuff. I chuckled when they all suddenly shut up
They seem to have two completely separate fight choreography and special effects teams working on different episodes this season. The good team and the 'budget' team.
Still a great episode, I've been wondering for a while what the dragon riding would look like and never for once though they could actually make it look realistic so I can turn a blind eye np.
On the Stannis randomly burning his daughter thing, I have found that the TV series has always had a hard time of properly explaining things and making sense of decisions. If the books go the same way then you better believe Martin will push Stannis to a whole new level of desperation before he is forced to do such a thing.
I wonder whether burning a 6 year old girl alive at the stake will drum up more controversy than questionable (oh no i didn't) rape?
Still a great episode, I've been wondering for a while what the dragon riding would look like and never for once though they could actually make it look realistic so I can turn a blind eye np.
On the Stannis randomly burning his daughter thing, I have found that the TV series has always had a hard time of properly explaining things and making sense of decisions. If the books go the same way then you better believe Martin will push Stannis to a whole new level of desperation before he is forced to do such a thing.
I wonder whether burning a 6 year old girl alive at the stake will drum up more controversy than questionable (oh no i didn't) rape?
Damn Stannis ... not cool
He didn't have to do it, though. feck him. He made his choice. The actor who plays Stannis is fantastic, but feeling sorry for him after he did that would be like feeling sorry for Walder Frey after the Red Wedding because he has to clean up the blood.
Do you think he wanted to do it? He clearly thinks he did it for the greater good. So for him that is the hardest thing he would ever have to do.
It ain't the episode, it's the assassination of Stannis' character. I think we all knew Shireen will burn in Winds Of Winter but I seriously can't see it being at the hand of Stannis. She is still at the Wall in the books and I reckon Mel and Selyse will burn her behind Stannis' back (probably because they believe the pink letter). The episode itself was pretty great (except for the shitty CGI in the last scene) but I think they could have done it without making Stannis the most hated man in the series now. I just can't see his character going fully that direction in the books.
Again as a book reader it's pretty hard to seperate the two which is why we are probably more prone to bitching about the show. It also doesn't help that all of us have invested a lot of time into reading the books and therefore will feel more invested in the characters themselves.