Which is why he's in a comfortable position. He isn't expected to win trophies by Levy and I believe even slipping out of the CL qualifying spots will bear no pressure on him.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
Good and really thorough article on Pochettino`s tactical development since his Soton days.
Enjoy!
https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...mauricio-pochettino-development-tactics-guide
Enjoy!
https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...mauricio-pochettino-development-tactics-guide
Exactly. Credit where it is due, he is very good manager and built superb side and also improved players superbly. But after all that next step is to expect some trophies. They already have quality players.
For examples, how many ManUtd players would have walked into Spurs team at the start of last season? People here were arguing except De Gea everyone would struggle as Spurs have better team, so not sure what's wrong in expecting them to win trophies to take next step.
Funny how the manager that is dominating the league is the least pragmatic of them all.
Pochettino has done an excellent job at Spurs. He has built a fantastic team that is able to compete with the elite with significantly less funding than the other Elite teams out there and because he has not won anything yet doesn't mean we should downplay his efforts.
Spurs are leaps ahead of the team he inherited. If i can recall correctly they have only ever once found themselves finishing in a CL place once prior to his arrival and since he has been there hes finished in a CL place consecutively and finishing 2nd last season.
He may not have won something yet and that is a fair criticism no doubt but they are now able to at least compete with the likes of United and the other top teams in the country and in Europe and that is worth praise considering where they were before hand and after the Bale season.
I personally enjoy the rise of spurs. It adds to the competitiveness of the league when more teams improve unlike other leagues around Europe that are a one horse race.
Spurs are leaps ahead of the team he inherited. If i can recall correctly they have only ever once found themselves finishing in a CL place once prior to his arrival and since he has been there hes finished in a CL place consecutively and finishing 2nd last season.
He may not have won something yet and that is a fair criticism no doubt but they are now able to at least compete with the likes of United and the other top teams in the country and in Europe and that is worth praise considering where they were before hand and after the Bale season.
I personally enjoy the rise of spurs. It adds to the competitiveness of the league when more teams improve unlike other leagues around Europe that are a one horse race.
This thread has people losing all their sense of logic, as if Spurs are expected to win major titles in an era where money is flying around like no bodies business. Let me paint a picture for some. Last season spurs had a Wanyama, Dembele midfield that did really well for them but this season neither has contributed majorly due to injury issues. Dembele is picking up now but the season is well past the midway point and those two have played less than Sissocko, Dier and Winks. Sadly for a club like Spurs has a injury crisis to its starting mids, that's the level they have to draw on. They lost their starting right back and now have Trippier as a lone starter, can't afford to go around signing 50 million fullbacks or have high quality depth.
He's done a fantastic job for them, no one really knows how he'd do at a high budget team but that remains to be seen if he does fail to win major trophies there then he deserves all the criticism. However criticizing him for leading spurs to 3rd and 2nd places doesn't make sense.
He's done a fantastic job for them, no one really knows how he'd do at a high budget team but that remains to be seen if he does fail to win major trophies there then he deserves all the criticism. However criticizing him for leading spurs to 3rd and 2nd places doesn't make sense.
Which is why he's not yet proven himself.
He will be expected to win trophies in any job he takes next (assuming it's a step up).
He's in this weird grey area. People talk about him as some kind of messiah. He's lower on the top-tier manager sale than Benitez right now. That's the reality. He needs to win something.
Caf is generally ageist and tends to prefer 'exciting' young talents over actual experience of achievement. I feel views of Poch are biased in this way, to the extent he is preferred over managers with actual records of winning. Personally, I would rather wait and see if he does fulfil that potential. I have seen far too many ''promising' young managers burn out and fade away.
Seconded.
Nobody apart from City have signed 50m fullbacks, so I'm not sure why it's relevant in this argument.
So you don't think Spurs have a squad capable of competing then? You wouldn't want Kane, Eriksen, Alli, Alderweireld, Son, Rose, Vertonghen etc. at our club? The club has done wonders in recruiting brilliant players at bargain prices, there is absolutely no one disputing that. What we need to do though, is look at what Poch has done with those bargain signings, and has he taken that side to the next level? The answer is no, he hasn't.
Being able to work on a budget is great asset to have - at a club like Spurs - but if he secured a move to a 'massive club' like United or Real Madrid, how important would that be? These clubs can afford to spent 50/60m on an established player. The focus then is getting those players into a position where they are competing at their highest possible level. We haven't seen Poch do that yet. The club might be punching above their weight, but that set of players certainly isn't.
Leicester won it, that's an exception rather than norm anyways. Arsenal won 3 FA cups in last 4 years and Spurs have better team than Arsenal. Saying Spurs should win trophies is not illogical or even downplaying Poch's achievements. Everyone acknowledged that, few like me are saying it's time for them to take next step which is winning some trophies. Considering how good their team is, it makes sense to expect them to take next step.
That's cause he don't have to buy alli and kane.
The Spurs project is admirable and parallels Ferguson’s work at United, but anyone implying Pocchettino is absolved of all obligation to compete for trophies are naive - their players are fantastic.
Yes he’s spent relatively little, but one of the biggest differences is the likes of Mourinho and Conte have to try to buy their Harry Kanes, Eriksens, Walkers, Vertonghens and Roses, while Pochettino inherited them; if Mourinho took over a that squad 18 months ago instead, which is the most complete in England, he’d have likely spent very little since, and also won stuff too.
Lloris, Dembele, Alderweireld, Lamela, Wanyama, Son etc were all quality players at their previous clubs, while the improvement of the British fullbacks and the likes of Eriksen can accredited as much to natural maturity with age and experience as anything the coach has done; they were long-touted as potentially brilliant players.
You can also argue Dele Alli has actually regressed under Pochettino - he was an animal against United as a baby for MK Dons, and seems to be developing into a petulant passenger on the pitch.
He has to start winning trophies, but I feel that ship has sailed for them now - the Manchester clubs went into hibernation post-Ferguson/Mancini, and that facilitated Spurs first/only real chance to win the title and domestic cups, and they failed against the mighty Leicester and a Chelsea team containing Victor Moses. Now with strong United and City teams in the equation, they’ve got no chance, and given the recruitment situations at Liverpool and Arsenal, they might find themselves struggling for Champions League football for the foreseeable future too.
Yes he’s spent relatively little, but one of the biggest differences is the likes of Mourinho and Conte have to try to buy their Harry Kanes, Eriksens, Walkers, Vertonghens and Roses, while Pochettino inherited them; if Mourinho took over a that squad 18 months ago instead, which is the most complete in England, he’d have likely spent very little since, and also won stuff too.
Lloris, Dembele, Alderweireld, Lamela, Wanyama, Son etc were all quality players at their previous clubs, while the improvement of the British fullbacks and the likes of Eriksen can accredited as much to natural maturity with age and experience as anything the coach has done; they were long-touted as potentially brilliant players.
You can also argue Dele Alli has actually regressed under Pochettino - he was an animal against United as a baby for MK Dons, and seems to be developing into a petulant passenger on the pitch.
He has to start winning trophies, but I feel that ship has sailed for them now - the Manchester clubs went into hibernation post-Ferguson/Mancini, and that facilitated Spurs first/only real chance to win the title and domestic cups, and they failed against the mighty Leicester and a Chelsea team containing Victor Moses. Now with strong United and City teams in the equation, they’ve got no chance, and given the recruitment situations at Liverpool and Arsenal, they might find themselves struggling for Champions League football for the foreseeable future too.
Pochettino has done a lot more than merely inherit these players - he's coached and developed them into becoming far better.
Alli was playing in League One - now he's an England regular and has won the PFA Young Player of the Year two seasons running (if that's "regression" then words lose all meaning). Prior to Pochettino's arrival, Kane had scored just 3 league goals - he's since scored 97 more. Eriksen was a young prospect - now he's seen as an elite-level AM. Vertonghen has become one of the Prem's top CBs. Rose has become one of the Prem's best wingbacks. Likewise Walker.
There was a similar pattern at S'hampton. Pocchettino has shown beyond doubt that he's an excellent coach, with a proven record of greatly improving players. This is the key reason why Spurs have become competitive despite not being able to compete financially on wages and transfer spending.
This would be though. Transfer Fees taken from Transfermarkt.co.uk, people can complain to them if anyone thinks the values are wrong.
Players that have since left the club
Manchester City - 677,00€
Last 4 Seasons Transfer Fees 30M or above:
Aymeric Laporte - 65,00 Mill. €
Benjamin Mendy - 57,50 Mill. €
Kyle Walker - 51,00 Mill. €
Bernardo Silva - 50,00 Mill. €
Ederson - 40,00 Mill. €
Danilo - 30,00 Mill. €
John Stones - 55,60 Mill. €
Leroy Sané - 50,00 Mill. €
Gabriel Jesus - 32,00 Mill. €
Kevin De Bruyne - 76,00 Mill. €
Raheem Sterling - 62,50 Mill. €
Nicolás Otamendi - 44,60 Mill. €
Wilfried Bony - 32,30 Mill. €
Eliaquim Mangala - 30,50 Mill. €
Manchester United - 626,90€
Last 4 Seasons Transfer Fees 30M or above:
Romelu Lukaku - 84,70 Mill. €
Nemanja Matic - 44,70 Mill. €
Victor Lindelöf - 35,00 Mill. €
Paul Pogba - 105,00 Mill. €
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - 42,00 Mill. €
Eric Bailly - 38,00 Mill. €
Anthony Martial - 60,00 Mill. €
Morgan Schneiderlin - 35,00 Mill. €
Memphis Depay - 34,00 Mill. €
Ángel Di María - 75,00 Mill. €
Luke Shaw - 37,50 Mill. €
Ander Herrera - 36,00 Mill. €
Liverpool - 318,50€
Last 4 Seasons Transfer Fees 30M or above:
Virgil van Dijk - 78,80 Mill. €
Mohamed Salah - 42,00 Mill. €
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - 38,00 Mill. €
Sadio Mané - 41,20 Mill. €
Christian Benteke - 46,50 Mill. €
Roberto Firmino - 41,00 Mill. €
Adam Lallana - 31,00 Mill. €
Arsenal - 245,25€
Last 4 Seasons Transfer Fees 30M or above:
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang - 63,75 Mill. €
Alexandre Lacazette - 53,00 Mill. €
Granit Xhaka - 45,00 Mill. €
Shkodran Mustafi - 41,00 Mill. €
Alexis Sánchez - 42,50 Mill. €
Tottenham - 105,00€
Last 4 Seasons Transfer Fees 30M or above:
Davinson Sánchez - 40,00 Mill. €
Moussa Sissoko - 35,00 Mill. €
Heung-Min Son - 30,00 Mill. €
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I don't see where anyone is even debating that Pochettino has spent less than the rivals?
It is his 5th year in Premier Legaue and if he's still seen as promising rather than top manager, then it's laughable. He made Alli, Kane, Ericksen, top players, along with Rose, Walker, Davies,Wanyama, Schneiderlin and so on, I could name almost every player. He can build a strong team and works excellently with youth, his brand of football is great to watch.
Hes yet to win a trophy but making top4 with Spurs every year is quite impressive with the budget and I dont think Ive seen Zidane/Guardioal win anything with a midtable, newly promoted club like Southampton or bellow top club like Spurs before taking over at the biggest stage straight away. He's like Harry Kane of managers, it's just pathetic to speak about Kane just as a talent, he's already established world class striker, we can see that he's doing his best for the club but if he's to win a trophy he might need to move or get the right budget. The same with Pochettino. If he goes to Madrid he will win the league
One thing that no one can deny is that Pochettino has changed the mentality of Spurs. Before the Poch era, Spurs would always lose with almost no fight conceding a goal away as early as we did against Liverpool yesterday. The performance would have been not too dissimilar with United's performance on Wednesday after the 20th minute. Poch rid the squad off bad-influence players who were not willing to train hard, work for the team, improve, and be the best that they can be. All the players that you listed were good players before Poch took over at Spurs. Poch made them and the team better, there is no denying that.
Is he the right manager for Real Madrid or PSG, I do not think so as the Pochettino's way require a complete buy-in of his philosophy. I do not think that the divas at Madrid and PSG will like his way. Regardless, Poch is the best manager for clubs that do not target instant success in trophies and want to build towards a long-term vision.
From my perspective I think for them to be even challenging for the title is a worthy accomplishment given the vast difference in club finances. To be in the Champions League and competing on 3 fronts is a testament to Pochs ability as a manager. The whole "they haven't won any trophies" argument is pretty shallow as well, nobody should expect them to win the League. FA Cup and League Cup is a more attainable and realistic objective for their club and yet even that goal is tough when you consider the size of squads United/City have.
- Tottenham in 4 seasons spent €324.6m in transfer fees
- Manchester City this season spent €315.8m in transfer fees
Yes he’s a good developer of talent, but a lot of coaches are - the next phase of the development of this potential dynasty is actually winning, and has Pochettino ever done anything to suggest he’s the man to oversee that step?
Kyle Walker was young player of the year and in the PFA team in 2012, 2 years pre-Pochettino, yet some would have you believe he was some journeyman who was plucked from obscurity. Same applies to Alli - he was clearly a proper talent before he went to Spurs.
It’s like, to a lesser extent, people pretending Pep is some kind of miracle worker because Sane, Sterling and De Bruyne, obvious talents who cost circa £50m each to acquire, are gradually playing like good footballers under him.
Pochettino has a great squad, and the fact it hasn’t won anything is more down to his ineptitude as a winner than their lack of necessary talent to do so.
You'd hire Benitez over Poch if you owned a club? really? That's the same logic that had us hiring the likes of Van Gaal.
I've seen many 'promising managers' win the major titles in recent years. Zidane took the same squad Benitez had made a mess with and had them winning major title after major title despite walking in with no real experience. Football has changed post Pep. Most of the pre Pep managers are irrelevant in today's football.
Just an example of the financial muscle they have to contend with or would you have preferred me saying 90 million pound midfielders?
Not all of them. Anyways, they are good players, but everyone has good players. Another thing is their squad options are pathetic. They have Sissocko turning out for them on occasion. They had a winks, Dier tandem at some point. Pretty sure we can agree the midfield area is very import, the shock with the injuries is something they can't sort out.
Winks is a far more competent than Pogba is a deeper midfield role already, while Mourinho wanted Dier in the summer.....
Pep changed nothing, apart from maybe neutralising a great Bayern team into a decent one - coaches like Simeone, Allegri, and Zidane have all had far greater success in Europe than Pep since 2011, all with a huge Italian influence on their ideology, while Barcelona look back on track after abandoning Pep’s philosophy. Indeed Pochettino’s biggest issue is possibly his aspirations of mimicking Pep (high defensive line, asking Lloris to overplay) rather than the aforementioned other more resourceful, pragmatic coaches.
If you say so.
So you missed all of the Barca years i take it? even those coaches are new age coaches and while there's a somewhat pragmatic approach, there's a base of high intensity, winning the ball quickly after losing it in attack, Passing out from the back(Allegri and Zidane especially). How have Barca abandoned Pep's philosophy?
Pochettino doesn't play a high line to emulate Pep.
Barcelona haven't played with Pep Guardiola's philosphy since Tito Vilanova stopped being the manager so I'm not sure what you watch their games or understand what Pep Guardiola's philosphy is.
Pochettino is a Bielsista and aggressive pressing is one of the characteristics of his coaching ethos.
Hiring Benitez over Poch 
Someone ring Madrid and tell them they need to be sniffing around Newcastle, not Wembley...
Poch is a very good manager (only debatable by those with an agenda). Spurs are in great hands as long as they have him and Levy around. He ticks most of the boxes for me:
Great record bringing youth and young players through
Expansive, progressive football going forward, and his ability to forge competent defensive schemes without playing extremely cynical football
Increasing expectations for Spurs. Now people expect them to win titles. That wasn't the case a few years ago, and that progression is mostly due to Poch
Accomplishing all that with expenditures a fraction of what his rivals are spending.
Dismissing all of that because he hasn't won trophies is stupid. He's young and learning still. The Leicester season showed his and his team's inexperience at the crunch end, but they're better this season as proven by their exploits in Europe to date. May not be enough to get them a title with City and United and Chelsea and Liverpool as contenders, but at least with the domestic cups they have a chance of snagging a few over the next couple of seasons.
And if he goes to a bigger club that will support him with time and more resources (i.e. not Madrid), they'll reap the benefits in due time.
Someone ring Madrid and tell them they need to be sniffing around Newcastle, not Wembley...Poch is a very good manager (only debatable by those with an agenda). Spurs are in great hands as long as they have him and Levy around. He ticks most of the boxes for me:
Great record bringing youth and young players through
Expansive, progressive football going forward, and his ability to forge competent defensive schemes without playing extremely cynical football
Increasing expectations for Spurs. Now people expect them to win titles. That wasn't the case a few years ago, and that progression is mostly due to Poch
Accomplishing all that with expenditures a fraction of what his rivals are spending.
Dismissing all of that because he hasn't won trophies is stupid. He's young and learning still. The Leicester season showed his and his team's inexperience at the crunch end, but they're better this season as proven by their exploits in Europe to date. May not be enough to get them a title with City and United and Chelsea and Liverpool as contenders, but at least with the domestic cups they have a chance of snagging a few over the next couple of seasons.
And if he goes to a bigger club that will support him with time and more resources (i.e. not Madrid), they'll reap the benefits in due time.
Between him and Sampaoli who do you like more?
Who said that blasphemy?
Reading his posts, that's a very safe assumption.
And the high line, oh the dangerous high line!
See below.
Disclaimer: I have a lot of time and respect for Benitez. But over the last 5 years, there's no contest.
Terrific manager, doing relly well with limited budget. Hopefully, he wins a major trophy soon, would be well deserved imo.
5? You are generous, just compare Napoli under him and Sarri with almost the same players and take your own conclusions, not that different from Mourinho but that is another matter who looks dangerous to say here.
Not sure why you are quoting me about Kane?
And, getting back to what I said: I just don't regard any manager who has won nothing as a 'great'. Until this season, Wenger very consistently reached the top four. Yet he is considered a has-been but Poch is a great for achieving something Wenger did habitually.
He should leave Spurs. They aren't going to outspend the other clubs to attract enough talent to win anything.
We don't need to outspend all the other clubs to attract enough talent to win trophies. And we're still in with a shout for two trophies this season ... it's silly to say we have no chance of either.
Ah you mean the FA Cup or the Champions League?
Yes you are in with a shout. Plenty of clubs are in with a shout. Plenty of clubs are in with a much better shout than Spurs and Pochettino will more likely get an offer from those clubs soon.
Yes, of course.