Why isn’t it in the realm of possibility? That’s simply all I’m suggesting.
Also never said he wants to resign...
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
Also never said he wants to resign...
You might want to ponder how it is that - according to you - he has the 2nd best squad in the league whilst having a net spend (and wage bill) far, far, below any of our rivals. The best you've come up with so far is that he "might" be good at developing players, whilst singling out Janssen as a failure in this vein.
Also, the notion that he's under zero pressure is bollocks. The pressure of maintaining top 4 status - and thus CL football - on a shoe-string budget is huge.
Spurs do not have undeniably the 2nd best squad in the league, where is this info coming from?
They have dross like Sissoko and Dier as starters in midfield. Some 21 yo cb kid that gave away 2 penalties in 1 game. A crocked Dembele and Wanyama. Winks as a starter, again another kid not an established star.
The only place you might say they have decent depth is in attack. But even then Mo Salah and Mane are better than Son, Alli.
Then you look at the bench and it's all academy graduates and sick notes like Lamela, Wanyama, Winks.
They have 2 world class players in Kane and Eriksen.
Because things are going well for him at Spurs. He has complete authority to do what he wants with the squad, a fantastic new stadium that soon will be open for business, a clear long-term plan and project that is continuing to unfold, a good relationship with Levy, the players and fans alike, a long-term contract worth up to £8.5m per year - which makes him one of the highest paid managers in Europe - and lives in one of the world's great capital cities.
I’m not sure Pochettino would want to walk into toxic pit that has become Manchester United. He’s got a great thing going with Spurs and while he might want to leave on his own terms rather than wait to be sacked, it’s no longer the case that United are necessarily a step up from Spurs. Maybe Pochettino is the man to restore United to its proper place, but the fate of the three managers who succeeded Ferguson suggests the possibility that it’s an impossible task.
I’m not trying to be arrogant or anything but it’s Manchester United we’re talking about here. The most successful club in English history and one of the biggest names in football.
As good as your team is on the pitch it’s just another level isn’t it.
I agree with everything that you’ve said and maybe it’s because I’m a United fan but the chance to rebuild a club like that is not something many people could turn down.
The only reason I think he could or should turn it down is maybe if Madrid are also in the picture.
Well, right now United is not another level and haven't been for several years now.
Being realistic, if Spurs finish top 4 again why would Pochettino want to abandon Spurs in the CL to go manage United in the EL?
Moreover, at Spurs he has stability, whilst you will soon likely sack your 3rd manager since Pochettino arrived at Spurs (well, 2nd, technically, but Moyes was sacked just weeks beforehand).
Money does not always equate to quality.
Spurs has a very good squad, and one of the best starting XI in the league. Players like Kane and Eriksen would be earning much more if they were playing for any of the other top club. Even within spurs, there are wages vs quality disparities e.g. Lamela is on 105k while Eriksen earns 75k and Alli is on 55k, is Lamela then better than Eriksen and Alli?
Managers should be judge by the quality of the players at their disposal and how much they are getting out of them. How much those players earn is irrelevant
Were undeniably a bigger club than you though.
I respect what you’ve done over the last decade or whatever but you can’t pretend you are similar in stature to us?
Maintain your current level for another 15-20 years and win a boat loaded trophies then it might be close. United were always going to have a barren spell after SAF and it’s not brilliant right now but it won’t stay like that forever, I believe there’s simply too much money at stake for us to end up languishing. Someone will get it right again and it could well be Potch if given the opportunity.
Just because you’ve played nicer football than us for a few years (and finished behind us last year) don’t kid yourself into thinking you’re on the same level man.
We may have fallen a bit over the last few years but as a club and a brand United are bigger than ever.
Why are you conveniently leaving out the fact he put Alderweireld on the bench and chose to play Foyth? Last season Spurs had a much stronger squad than Liverpool. What about the season Leicester won the title? Dembele was phenomenal the past few seasons. Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld are all world class. Liverpool have Henderson Milner and Wijnaldum in midfield. Trent Alexander at RB. Spurs had and have a world cup winning keeper. A solid LB, Solid CBs, great midfield options, great options on the wing and the best striker on the planet. Poch still managed to bottle the title to Leicester. He still bottles cup games with pointless rotations. And his teams have no plan B. He is not a winner and he has not done anything to prove otherwise. Its that simple. Same naive tactics against every team. Sometimes they work sometimes they dont. He is a level below top managers.
I'm not saying that we are. But it's mostly about the here-and-now and the developing future, so I doubt Pochettino cares much about United being a bigger-than-ever brand when he's focused on the unfolding Spurs project, which aims to establish us as one of Europe's elite club.
So I would say, in reply, don't kid yourself that Spurs don't have very high ambitions, are not developing the means to realise them and that Pochettino is not aware of this. He knew what he was doing when he signed the new contract, even though he also knew that other clubs wanted him to jump ship.
You need to keep up: Alli has signed a new and much improved contract. And Eriksen will get much more than Alli now does if he signs a new contract.
Like the poster above, I agree with much of what you say. But surely we can agree that it will be difficult to turn down a job like united without giving it some serious thought? Spurs are definitely in a better place right now than United, but I'm not sure if that was the case before Poch joined spurs. He might back himself to be the one to reignite united.
I am not a spurs fan so forgive me if I dont know the calendar date when your player sign new contracts.
Still doesnt change the argument that wages dont always reflect quality
Whilst I think both Alderweireld and Vertonghen are class, VVD is better. And who comes off the bench for the Belgians? Two young inexperienced CB's in Sanchez and Foyth.
Best striker on the planet? Arguable that he is the best striker in the league. Between him and Aguero and it's a close call. Depends what you want in a striker, some people would pick Aguero, some Kane.
Dembele is not the same as the Dembele of 2-3 seasons ago. He will be lucky to play one game a week, and even then probably only 70minutes. And he is the only class midfielder they have.
I totally agree however he should have won a cup. The squad is easily good enough to have brought in a trophy. Seems CL qualification is more important than cups at Spurs. As it is with most clubs now.
Wouldn’t he just prefer to join a club that has everything in place as one of Europe’s elite clubs with massive resources, not being held back at all by new stadiums and not being able to compete with wages etc.
The truth of it is that Spurs are trying to get where United already are and maybe he just doesn’t want to wait.
Let’s face it, the only thing that turns players off potential joining United these days is our horrible playing style. Fix that and there aren’t many teams that compete with us for players. If anything the last few years has shown how strong our pull still is despite going downhill since SAF.
I don’t think anyone would blame him for leaving for United because it’s a pretty logical progression. Spurs aren’t on the same level yet. It may come with time but not at the moment.
The fact nobody is even mentioning PSG shows how little some people know about Poch. The same people think Barca is a posibility, if Real and PSG were both on the table at some point I think he would take PSG when the timing was right, Poch is incredibly loyal.
Can I ask why United wernt keen on Pep or Klopp? Both would be much more suited to United than Poch IMO, I don’t think he would btw, it would be at least another 2 season before he has the squad he wants. Even Pep took a season to turn City to where they are now, and that was with a far better squad.
If you take a step back and look Uniteds last 3 appointments have been Moyes (I mean what the feck), Van Gal (was destined for us until you panicked), and Jose (totally unsuitable), how come you haven’t been the big draw you say you are. Honestly I don’t know why either, you are the biggest club in the land.
Except in the real world he's managing Spurs not United and doing so exceptionally well with the resources at his disposal.
He'll have to prove himself again at a bigger club but based on his work at Spurs he has been brilliant.
Not going for Pep is the only one I have never understood. I’d have loved him here.
I believe we did approach Klopp IIRC but for whatever reason said no, maybe it was just the timing of Woodward being appointed and him being relatively incompetent.
If Gill had stayed a season or two longer I think we’d have been much more capable in dealing with the transition.
You also have to factor in many, many managers not wanting to follow SAF.
I agree Van Gal was sacked much too early, you could see what he was doing, stripping back to the basics, in many ways what Poch done with us. I don’t think or see any reasons why Poch would be given any more time with you than he was, his first season with us was pretty tumescent, similar football to AVB.
With us tough he could unload players he didn’t like cause their wages were pretty low. I don’t think it would be that easy with the wages United players are on.
Yeah... just like moyes was brilliant at everton.
I was personally in favour of LVG going. It was just soul destroying football, that said hiring Mourinho as an antidote to that wasn’t a wise move
Not exactly famous for swashbuckling attacking football is he...
The problem with Manchester United right now is that they are no longer fun to watch (in a good way). I actually read a quote from a Dortmund player yesterday saying he used to love watching United but not so much anymore. The results I can deal with, it’s the attitude and style/approach that myself and I think many others disagree with.
Spurs may have had a better defensive and midfield squad than Liverpool last season. However, Liverpool front 3 was and still is on another level. Spurs under Poch always had problems breaking bus-parking teams down. At the highest level, you need a player like Hazard, David Silva, (peak) Sanchez, Salah, and Mahrez that can consistently unsettle teams on their own. Spurs and Poch don't have that player and we cannot afford to buy a ready-made one. That is what we hoped Lamela and Lucas Moura would become but it does not look like they will ever be there.
Did you watch Everton and how he dealt with youth players? I hate the lazy comparison people make with Moyes and managers like De Silva, Poch and Howe, Moyes was a typical direct British manager.
This glaston spurs guy is extremely annoying but i swear i have never seen him be wrong about anything
Ive been reading redcafe for a while now and hes been right about Eriksen vs Oscar,right about Ali not leaving,right about Kane not leaving,right about the players not kicking up a fuss about their so called "low pay" contracts,right about them not needing Walker because they have Trippier.
Ive been reading redcafe for a while now and hes been right about Eriksen vs Oscar,right about Ali not leaving,right about Kane not leaving,right about the players not kicking up a fuss about their so called "low pay" contracts,right about them not needing Walker because they have Trippier.
I agree to a point but if you look at our best performanaces recently, they are ones where we don’t seek to keep the ball. We should play more like Liverpool and let the opposition have the ball and counter more, we have hard working player and we should use them more efficiently. We should also be much more pragmatic than we currently are, I love Poch but he isn’t perfect.
Eh?
Pochettino has been objectively brilliant at Spurs. All your random hypotheticals are irrelevant. He's done a terrific job at the club he's been at. Hence his fans are much happier than, for example, ours who are miserable with our shit on a stick manager. He's missing trophies such as the LC and FA cup I suppose but that's it. Otherwise he's done nearly as well as you could expect at Spurs with that budget.
And Moyes did do well at Everton. That's just a fact despite it upsetting some. However we've been given a brain capable of critical thinking for it to be used. And despite doing well at Everton his team always played small team football which is why most of us, despite the good at Everton, knew it was a bad move which was bound to fail. Pochettino's outlook and tactical set up on the other hand fit for a big club. So he has both the tactical ability and performance levels for a bigger club unlike Moyes. Obviously it's up to him to actually do it. But the facts are there and indisputable thus far.
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Eh?
Pochettino has been objectively brilliant at Spurs. All your random hypotheticals are irrelevant. He's done a terrific job at the club he's been at. Hence his fans are much happier than, for example, ours who are miserable with our shit on a stick manager. He's missing trophies such as the LC and FA cup I suppose but that's it. Otherwise he's done nearly as well as you could expect at Spurs with that budget.
And Moyes did do well at Everton. That's just a fact despite it upsetting some. However we've been given a brain capable of critical thinking for it to be used. And despite doing well at Everton his team always played small team football which is why most of us, despite the good at Everton, knew it was a bad move which was bound to fail. Pochettino's outlook and tactical set up on the other hand fit for a big club. So he has both the tactical ability and performance levels for a bigger club unlike Moyes. Obviously it's up to him to actually do it. But the facts are there and indisputable thus far.
Fact is : trophy won = 0
Again, i think he's a great manager. He might do a great job with us. He's doing a great job at spurs. Nobody is denying that.
But the reasoning is not only on poch ability but our chronic illness post fergie. When managers that has a great pedigree like lvg and Mourinho fails with us, the common denominator starts to shift that maybe it isnt the manager issue alone. If poch comes to us and faces the same problem all over again.
But there's no point in further discussion. We know how fallen jose with united supporter, let's just see where poch future lies for him.
I agree with you, but he is also relatively young for a manager and has room to improve and work on these departments.
Personally my favourite picks would be between Simeone, Allegri and Tuchel. Tuchel seems like he'll eventually get the boot from PSG due to his hard stance on players and training, which is something we could use at United along with his playstyle. Mourinho coincidentally would be amazing at PSG i think
Eh, alderweireld has been a distraction, and it seems certain he will be leaving. It also seems like eriksen could be trending that direction too.This glaston spurs guy is extremely annoying but i swear i have never seen him be wrong about anything
Ive been reading redcafe for a while now and hes been right about Eriksen vs Oscar,right about Ali not leaving,right about Kane not leaving,right about the players not kicking up a fuss about their so called "low pay" contracts,right about them not needing Walker because they have Trippier.
And I disagree wholeheartedly on trippier. Hes been very solid for them, but the goal is to win trophies, and Tottenham is losing ground in that regard. Even if Walker is just slightly better, when he goes to a rival and fills a big hole, while tottenham takes a small step back, it's a problem.
Tottenham had a very nice core a few years ago, and it looked like they might win some titles. Most of the core is still there, but guys like lloris, vert, and dembele are aging out, while alderweireld anf potentially eriksen could be leaving too.
They aren't going to fall apart, and they are still strong contenders for top 4, but they're closer to falling out than they are to winning the league.
That's just all utter garbage. Tuchel, Zidane and Guardiola are just 3 examples of managers who didn't win a thing as managers and then got a big job and did very well. Zidane is a step in the wrong direction. Pochettino just turned down Real Madrid. After Klopp and Guardiola he's the best young manager out there and it's absolutely guaranteed that he will win endless silverware when he gets a bigger gig than Spurs. Van Gaal won a truck load of trophies mostly with clubs who could have walked the league even with Mr. Bean in charge but he was found out at Utd. He was miles out of his depth. Trophies is not always how you judge a winner or not when appointing a new manager. There's tons of managers out there who have won endless trophies who are not good enough or a bad fit for Man Utd. Some examples - Benitez, Mancini, Luis Enrique, Van Gaal, Simeone, Trapattoni, Capelo, Mourinho, Arsene Wenger, Conte, Ancelotti.
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Another indisputable fact is for all the talk of Pochetino playing 'bog club football'. Like Moyes he has won zilch. Including being beaten to a league title with a better team.and more resources than a Ranieri led Leicester. On top of constantling over looking winning cups and his sketchy big game record domestically. Especially away from home.Eh?
Pochettino has been objectively brilliant at Spurs. All your random hypotheticals are irrelevant. He's done a terrific job at the club he's been at. Hence his fans are much happier than, for example, ours who are miserable with our shit on a stick manager. He's missing trophies such as the LC and FA cup I suppose but that's it. Otherwise he's done nearly as well as you could expect at Spurs with that budget.
And Moyes did do well at Everton. That's just a fact despite it upsetting some. However we've been given a brain capable of critical thinking for it to be used. And despite doing well at Everton his team always played small team football which is why most of us, despite the good at Everton, knew it was a bad move which was bound to fail. Pochettino's outlook and tactical set up on the other hand fit for a big club. So he has both the tactical ability and performance levels for a bigger club unlike Moyes. Obviously it's up to him to actually do it. But the facts are there and indisputable thus far.
People should stop pretending its delusion to have a healthy dose of skepticism about him. Even with the postives in his favour.
Personally I hope he never leaves Spurs. He is growing with the club and can truly build a legacy there if he succeeds in getting them to win something. Like Simoene at Aletico he should seek elite success where he is trusted and backed without question. A United job might be bigger but the pressures and level of trust are not the same. If he is patient at Spurs eventually he will have finances to enhance his excellent work there Plus he has earned the type of job stability there only Fertile and Wenger used to have. Which can give him room to experiment on and evolve his philosophy which a United job never can. I've peraonally always been of the view it is more ambitious to try and build a winning culture at a Spurs than at a behemoth like Real or Manchester United. Jobs like ours only carry ambition when its a rebuild job.
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Sometimes i wonder if I'm a united fans in a hotspur club.....when united manager are called a cnut and hotspur manager are given a serious look
Dont know about hotspur manager part but him being called a cnut has nothing to do with us, he is what he is.
We should introduce a Q and A section on here.
Q: Did Pochettino bottle the title when Leicester won it.
A: Many teams were beaten to a league title with more resources than Ranieri including Wenger at Arsenal, Pellegrini at Manchester City and Mourinho at Chelsea. What I sometimes hear is that Spurs should have won it because the big teams were in transition, but in fact that's not quite true. All those managers had settled star names. While this was Pochettinos second season in charge, and in the summer he sold 11 players and released Adebayor. Players such as former captain Kaboul, big signing Soldado and others such as Lennon, Capoue, Paulinho, Townsend, Holtby and so on. In came 5 players including Son, Alderweireld and Trippier.
Pochettino was in fact rebuilding his side just as much as Van Gaal was, and started in a much weaker position than Pellegrino, Mourinho or Wenger.
Wenger at Arsenal had players such as Sanchez, Özil, Cech, Koschelny, Giroud and others.
Pellegrini at Manchester City had players such as Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Sterling, Nasri and others.
Mourinho at Chelsea had players such as Courteois, Hazard, Fabregas, Oscar, Willian, Pedro, Costa, and others
Van Gaal at Manchester United had players such as Martial, De Gea, Rooney, Mata, Smalling, Herrera and others.
Pochettino had players who would develop into top players, but it was very much a rebuild job with the club finishing 6th and 5th the two seasons before, and never higher than 4th in previous years with players long gone such as Bale and Modric. I don't understand where this myth that he bottled the league came from. Sure, it was a chance to win given everything that happened, but Spurs were never closer than 5 points off Leicester. In fact Spurs was the only 'top 6' team who would be relatively satisfied with the season since it was Pochettinos second season in charge and we came third.
On your point regarding valuing cups, he definitely do value the league, but with the squad he has now he definitely does try to challenge on all fronts. The season Leicester won the league he did sack the EL to try and win the title, other than that he has fielded strong teams and managed to go far in a few cups including two FA Cup semifinals.
On your last point I think you'll find many spurs fans agreeing with you, and it's the last big step for him to take; his big game management. We have come short in close games against big sides such as Chelsea, United and Juventus most recently. However in the league I think you'll find that it's not as bad as you think. Someone posted some stats before and it was more or less the same as most other managers iirc.
So ranieri is the better manager? We can agree on that?
The club needs an offensive coach who plays entertaining football, not defensive ridden tosh like Allegri & Simeone dish up. How anyone can suggest bringing the anti-football tactics of Simeone here is beyond me. Doesn't even speak English.