I don't.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
I don't.
I'm chilled out mate, not sure why you're asking me to. Jose would obviously fit with the team Tottenham have, it says it all when papers constantly link your players to us, its not because there is a real link, you just have really good players. Our squad has good players, but its a lot more unbalanced than yours is. You could definitely argue that if Jose would've taken over Spurs when Poch did you wouldn't be as strong as you are now, but I think with the team you have Jose would win the league. It wasn't one swallow? He won the UEFA cup and the champions league the season after without spending mega bucks. Poch has done nothing in comparison to that.
Jose is a defensive manager, that's his style. As for youth, he would have Dele on the bench as he isn't up to standard this season, compared to last. I honestly don't see how you don't see it, Poch has constantly put faith in players that are out of form while Jose doesn't. The reason we are performing well is because Poch looks beyond it. We aren't a defensive team, we can't park the bus.
Also Spurs fans in general wouldn't want it, even if it meant winning stuff, it's in our DNA, probably a bad thing if it meant winning. I don't see why you can't accept that, I'd never want Jose as a Spurs manager.
Mourinho wouldn't have Alli on the bench that's just nonsense. Jose at united has put a lot of faith into out of form players. Rashford is a player who has been wildly inconsistent since Mourinho arrived, and yet has some of the most appearances out of any of our players. Spurs' team is perfectly capable of playing a more safe, controlled style of football that Mourinho often goes for, you have wonderful centre backs and solid holding midfielders, don't forget we chased Dier last summer. The idea that Spurs fans wouldn't want Jose to come in if it meant you won the league is laughable.
It's really not, club before manager, I've been a fan for 25 years and how we play is much more important than what we win. We are Bill Nick through and through, again it's probably meant we don't win what we could but it's what we believe in. Unless ur a Tottenham fan you won't get it. I guarantee most of the Spurs fans on here will agree. We are proud of what we have done, and how we do it. I really don't care if I get laughed at.
Berating players, saying I beat you with another team, complaining about funds, I'd hate it, and deep down any United fan who believed in what Fergie built would say the same.
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I agree although I doubt managers managers think in that fashion, at the end of the day they want to win major trophies. Look at Wenger - he's gone from being a god to the Arsenal fans to the anti Christ, what's changed? No major trophies in years despite some FA cups and top 4 finishes.
It's a tough one because the Spurs project is pretty exciting but I find it tough to see you winning the league in the next few years and I do see the appeal of going to an RM, BM, PSG (aside from the money) in that Poch will be expected to be competing for every major honour every year. Basically, can Levy keep him happy and the nucleus of that team at Spurs for the next couple of years, because if he can you will then start having the financial clout to compete on all fronts.
This has no meaning though because there's no way of telling if he came in at Spurs that we'd win the league. I mean, he has a far bigger budget at United and still can't win the league. I also think it's quite clear the job Poch has done at Spurs is better than anything Mourinho would have managed with the same group of players. I struggle to see how Spurs would have improved so immeasurably, play such attractive Football, have such 100% support by all spurs fans, have such a harmonious dressing room and have developed so many young players with Mourinho in charge.
The fact is that our first 11 is very good. The first eleven can compete with almost any team. However, our squad players are not that good. Before the Christmas period, our backup to the 3 AMs behind Kane (Eriksen, Alli, and Son) was Sissoko who is two or three levels below. Lamela didn't regain fitness until recently and Moura was bought on the last day of the January period. Rose was injured for a long time. Vertonghen had to play LB a few matches. Son also had to play LWB a few times last season. Winks has also been injured which resulted in Spurs not having a capable creative CM to replace Dembele when he is not available. Our 3rd CB is a 19 y/o and playing in a big league for the first year. Etc.
It takes more than 11 players to win the league. We simply haven't had a squad capable of competing for the league yet. We are in the process of getting there.
The thing that really changed for Wenger was missing out on CL and likely now 2 years in a row. Before last season, there were some noises wanting Wenger out because the team hadn't really progressed. The noises got amplified after missing the CL last year and they got really really loud this year. To me, the minimum requirement for the chasing pack (Arsenal, Liverpool, and maybe Chelsea) seems to be either CL qualification or a cup. The manager would be fired if he misses both in a season.
For me, if Spurs doesn't win a trophy this season and does not qualify for CL, I wouldn't want Poch fired (I doubt any Spurs fan would). He has done wonders to the team and made believers out of both fans and players. He has transformed not so special players like Kane, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dembele, and Walker into special players that would be wanted by mega rich clubs.
It does have meaning though, I said if. I said there's no way Spurs fans wouldn't accept Mourinho if it meant they won the league.
The idea that Pochettino would clearly get more out of a talented squad than a manager with countless league titles and several European trophies under his belt is a big statement to make.
I really like Poch, and to be honest I don't really mind Tottenham. But I look at the team they have and the quality of the manager and feel like they should be more. I don't know maybe I'm wrong, but I feel the general expectation of the club with their own fans holds them back more than the quality of the players does.
It's a big statement to make but the context is Poch fits Spurs better than Mourinho ever would. Surely everyone can see that.
What more can we possibly do? Look at City and the squad they have, expecting Spurs to finish above them is fanciful. We made the last 16 of the CL and went out fighting to Juventus. CL finalists 2 of the last 3 seasons. Again, is it realistic to expect us to be in the CL last 8?
I think it's just a testament to the work Poch has done with Spurs that people now expect us to be challenging for major honours. In a way he is the victim of his own success.
Spurs have the 6th highest wage bill and the 6th largest revenue. We've finished 3rd and then 2nd. Not sure what else people expect Spurs to do? Bar the Leicester freak season it's always the richest clubs who win the trophies in this country. As much as we like to pretend football in this country is a level playing field, it isn't. I do agree Spurs really ought to win a trophy such as the FA Cup though. They are good enough to do that so really there are no excuses.
He has a bigger budget, because his squad is inferior and is playing catch-up, and the most expensive investment he made (Pogba) he doesn’t actually want or play. I don’t care what it cost to assemble, Pochettino is currently coaching the marginal second most valuable team in the league - how many United players would get into your first 11? De Gea and possibly Matic, that’s it.
Mourinho would do some serious damage with the players Pochettino has, and wouldn’t need to spend much at all.
I admire your blind faith of Mourinho, but I see nothing suggesting this to be the case.
Are you arguing that the system Pochettino plays doesn't get the best of his players, and that the system Mourinho plays gets the best of his? But the United squad is so inferior to Spurs that Mourinho can't be blamed until he spends another 300m?
I like Poch, I liked him since his days at Southampton. He is innovative and smart guy. He knows what he is doing. Will I want him managing out club? Yes, I would very much like that. Is that feasible? At the moment it looks like its not. Maybe in the future, who knows.
Trophies is the only thing that is missing, will they ever come? I am sure they will at some point, I think his work deserves some recognition.
Saying all that, what made me worry with his management its the exit from the CL to Juventus. I think he failed to take appropriate steps to defend the lead and failed to react after they took the lead. He seems that he has a plan A, but never a plan B.
Trophies is the only thing that is missing, will they ever come? I am sure they will at some point, I think his work deserves some recognition.
Saying all that, what made me worry with his management its the exit from the CL to Juventus. I think he failed to take appropriate steps to defend the lead and failed to react after they took the lead. He seems that he has a plan A, but never a plan B.
He's a very good manager but he needs to start winning a trophy or two.
Poor Mourinho, eh.
I don't buy the argument of Spurs having a superior squad to us but if they do, who is that down to? When Pochettino came in, Kane was a 21 year old with 3 Premier League goals to his name and he made him the main man. He developed Walker and Rose from being relative nobodies to being the best full-back pairing in the league and signed the likes of Son, Dier, Alli and Alderweireld himself.
How many of the players Mourinho's worked with in the past 2 years can you say he has improved in this way? How many of our attacking players has he even extracted the best from? He spent a world record fee on Pogba, if one year later he decides he doesn't actually fancy him all that much, that's his problem. Sanchez has come here and (so far) looks a shadow of the player he was at Arsenal. At what point does Mourinho take responsibility for these failures instead of palming it off on 'football heritage' and continuing to whinge about money and lack of quality in the squad? It's nuts what he can get away with.
Based on what though? Mourinho loves a team built like Spurs'
He'd love Alli, Eriksen, Dier, Dembele, all your Cb's, your full backs and of course Kane. He'd potentially get a bit more out the side because he's tactically more flexible. People are under this delusion that Mourinho only plays defensive football which isn't the case.
This season, granted, there's no way Tottenham could've won the league. But in the past few seasons I think perhaps you should've pushed for it and won the title. Like I say I think it's more a mentality issue than it is a squad quality issue. Even if Mourinho didn't get more out of the team tactically, he'd demand a lot more from them, whether or not that would work or not with the Spurs squad I imagine we'll never know.
Pochettino doesn't win trophies, Spurs don't win trophies, a perfect fit.
Well, the season Leicester won it he was in a transition phase after changing the squad drastically. We were far behind before the squad clicked and we gained consistency. The season Chelsea won it we finished on 86 points and Chelsea had a new PL record winning run. Little harsh.
The trophies talk is gonna jinx it. Just watch them beat us in the FA Cup now.
Foolish.
Foolish.
There are plenty comparing Pochettino and Mourinho. And the most common comparison is that Mourinho is past his sell by date and a tactical dinosaur while Pochettino is 'progressive'.
I've seen this comparison done so many times and have been completely bewildered by it because Pochettino and Mourinho are very similar in their tactical approaches. Both utilize a midfield to break up the game (generally two defensive minded midfielders, one dedicated as a DM, and one box to box powerhouse). They both utilize a traditional striker (Pochettino even went after Llorente, which signals what qualities he wants from his strikers). They even use the same formation combinations, 4-2-3-1 and 3-4-1-2.
The main difference between the two is their use of fullbacks, and even then that's debateable. Valenica and Young are both refashioned wingers, Young especially is a very attacking fullback.
Managers like Guardiola, Sarri, Tuchel are progressive managers, they focus on positional play and micro manage the players movements. I have no idea why Pochettino gets bundled into this group, he is a good classical manager.
I've seen this comparison done so many times and have been completely bewildered by it because Pochettino and Mourinho are very similar in their tactical approaches. Both utilize a midfield to break up the game (generally two defensive minded midfielders, one dedicated as a DM, and one box to box powerhouse). They both utilize a traditional striker (Pochettino even went after Llorente, which signals what qualities he wants from his strikers). They even use the same formation combinations, 4-2-3-1 and 3-4-1-2.
The main difference between the two is their use of fullbacks, and even then that's debateable. Valenica and Young are both refashioned wingers, Young especially is a very attacking fullback.
Managers like Guardiola, Sarri, Tuchel are progressive managers, they focus on positional play and micro manage the players movements. I have no idea why Pochettino gets bundled into this group, he is a good classical manager.
So the difference between pressing high up the pitch and retreat back to form a deep line, between encouraging players to switch positions during play and always keep the team shape, or between trying to keep possession at all cost and let the other team have possession & try to hit them in counter attack are minor tactical differences?
You mean in terms of not putting silverware on the table? He's showing himself to be a steady eddy with each passing season.....he's hit a ceiling and fair play to him he isn't dropping....he just hasn't managed to take the final step....won't get a shot at the biggest clubs unless he changes that....
I don't understand how you can blame the manager for not winning when the club is already severely overachieving considering their spent budget.
Clearly someone there is doing a great job.
Clearly someone there is doing a great job.
I mean that Dourinho - compared to Pochettino - would not be not a good fit for Spurs in terms of:
* Encouraging and developing team spirit (rarely does Poch publicly criticise any of his players individually).
* The entertaining and fluid football that Spurs fans want.
* Youth development.
* Spending money (Poch can work without being cheque-book manager).
* Building for the long-term
* Coaching players to significantly improve.
... and more besides.
And when you talk of getting a shot at the biggest clubs, I suppose you do realise that realistically - and leaving aside incumbent managers - there are only 5 or 6 possible destinations in that category world-wide if Pochettino were to leave Spurs?
Or to put it another way, Pochettino is already at a pretty good place (Spurs) in his career - a place that is quite likely to get better still in the next few years. So the incentive for him to leave is not as alluring as some opposition fans seem to imagine.
Easy Glaston history has shown us Spurs are a selling club so Kane Rose Alli etc will probably be sold so improvement might be stifled.
The thing with Jose and Poch is Jose wins trophies and if Poch has two or three seasons like he has had at Spurs he’d be sacked in a big job at a big club. At Spurs he’s fetted as he fits well and doesn’t have the big pressure of winning anything.
We sold 2 world clas players too the biggest club in the world, I seem to remember Ronaldo being sold too, if Madrid came in for another of you top players do you really think they wouldn't be interested? The *selling club* remark is abit of a simple term IMO.
The Moyes debacle changed my mind on whether managers should prove themselves by winning stuff. Pochettino deserves credit for he has done so far and is surely one of the most promising young managers around but I think some people are underestimating how big the next step in his career really is. Actually managing under pressure and under massive expectations. At Spurs he finishes third after being in a two horse race and no one bats an eyelid. He could very well stay for years while doing what he's doing now and his job wouldn't be in question. Being able to spend more money doesn't outweigh the huge difference in his current position vs managers of top teams who are expected to deliver here and now. Which is why at this moment comparing him to most successful managers in the game is a bit... premature. It's not really a given he has what it takes to manage a big club.
Lol this is laughable, so who was the two world class players we sold? Ronaldo he was wanting to go so that’s a bit of a one off. We sold Heinze, Rudd and Becks causes Fergie had better players or was done with them. Spurs have sold endless players Berba Sheringham Carrick to us to mention a handful comparing United as not a selling club to Spurs trust me is a pretty simple term whatever world you live in.
Il be honest and say I agree with nearly everything you say, what I will say though having seen many managers Poch is easily the most level headed and focused manager we have had. You can look at a manager like AVB, has won plenty of trophies but IMO failed miserably with us and the funny thing is it was the pressure of the Tottenham job was what unravelled him.
I have a feeling that once our squad win a trophie and I believe they will it will be a huge turning point and add the extra belief needed to crack on. The thing I will disagree with is even mentioning Moyes in the same breath.
Can I ask, if you were to replace Jose tomorrow who would you pick?
You were about to sell de Gea, but for a technical hitch that prevented it ... so Ronaldo was hardly a "one-off". And if de Gea had the chance again he'd be off to RM like a shot ... so do come down from your high horse.
So we are going from 3 players to now one? And even if we do sell DDG to Madrid (we haven’t) that would make it a grand total of two players we sold and only I’d imagine because that was the players wishes. On the other hand Spurs has been practically a feeder club for United for a while now.
There are at least 15 clubs across Europe who in terms of trophies won spunk all over spurs.....Jesus even Leicester trump spurs in the last 40 years if we are talking big trophies.....
Lol ... the last player that Spurs sold to United was Berbatov ... and that was getting on for 10 years ago.
The truth is that United would want from Spurs far more players than Spurs would want from United ... and that's despite all your vast spending.
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Doesn't change the fact that there are only 5 or 6 possible destinations world-wide if Pochettino were to leave Spurs.
But it does.....without him you could well be 6th/7th or whatever your average position has been across the 15 years before his arrival.....there are no shortage of clubs he could rock up at and get that team sitting 4th with no trophies.....
David Moyes won a title wit Manchester United. He is better DT than Pochettino?
Spurs has no obligation to win any title to prove they have a very good DT, a world class striker like Harry Kane and a bunch of good players in their squad.
In the end, bigger clubs get the better players. Spurs has nothing to compete about budget with City, United, Chelsea. And yet, they are still capable of almost win a Premier League in the last two seasons.
Spurs has no obligation to win any title to prove they have a very good DT, a world class striker like Harry Kane and a bunch of good players in their squad.
In the end, bigger clubs get the better players. Spurs has nothing to compete about budget with City, United, Chelsea. And yet, they are still capable of almost win a Premier League in the last two seasons.
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Why don't you list all these many clubs that Pochettino would leave Spurs for?
Dude don't embarrass urself, we *feed* you 2 players, over how long? Total ignorance. Carrick was mutual and Berbatov was a complete abomination of a transfer, I suggest you know what you are talking about before your type.
