A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Balu]

What is Poch exactly expected to win with Spurs in a era where Pep’s Man City and Klopp’s Liverpool exist?

League table

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Leicester City (C)	38	23	12	3	68	36	+32	81
2	Arsenal	38	20	11	7	65	36	+29	71
3	Tottenham Hotspur	38	19	13	6	69	35	+34	70

Surely it got nothing to do with Pep and Klopp that he didn't take advantage of that chance?

 

[2 man midfield]

League table

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Leicester City (C)	38	23	12	3	68	36	+32	81
2	Arsenal	38	20	11	7	65	36	+29	71
3	Tottenham Hotspur	38	19	13	6	69	35	+34	70

Surely it got nothing to do with Pep and Klopp that he didn't take advantage of that chance?

Let’s apply the same logic as those who defend Ole.

If he only had better players then he could’ve won it that year.

 

[Cassidy]

League table

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Leicester City (C)	38	23	12	3	68	36	+32	81
2	Arsenal	38	20	11	7	65	36	+29	71
3	Tottenham Hotspur	38	19	13	6	69	35	+34	70

Surely it got nothing to do with Pep and Klopp that he didn't take advantage of that chance?

Wasn't that only his second season at Spurs?

He massively improved them the following 2 seasons. Coming 2nd in the next one with 86 points, Spurs never got past 80 points before. Thats all you can ask from a manager to continue to improve and get more more points that your previous season.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Sorry what has Poch won exactly? He's a bluffer who moves on or gets moved on. He's Mr Potential, he's not actually achieved anything. Him and Ole have the same amount of PL titles. Ole has actually won leagues before. Yes he got Cardiff relegated but Klopp got his first side relegated too. Ole is very early in his career, Poch is midway through and has nothing to show for it.

Holy shit what a trainwreck of a post

 

[mu4c_20le]

Wasn't that only his second season at Spurs?

He massively improved them the following 2 seasons. Coming 2nd in the next one with 86 points, Spurs never got past 80 points before. Thats all you can ask from a manager to continue to improve and get more more points that your previous season.

The worrying thing about that year's title challenge was that I clearly remember them being within 4 or 5 points behind Leicester as late as March, they actually had a really good chance but bottled it in the end.

And what's this about his 2nd season ? Ranieri won it in his first year with Leicester!

 

[Micky Targaryen]

People keep banging on about how Poch has not won any trophies , but went on to name their preference in managers like Bielsa and Nagelsmann. What significant trophies have these managers won? Not a discredit to any of these two and they deserve praise for the work they have done, but this "not winning any trophies" reason to discredit Poch has got to stop.

 

[Renegade]

League table

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Leicester City (C)	38	23	12	3	68	36	+32	81
2	Arsenal	38	20	11	7	65	36	+29	71
3	Tottenham Hotspur	38	19	13	6	69	35	+34	70

Surely it got nothing to do with Pep and Klopp that he didn't take advantage of that chance?

Why didn’t former serial winners LVG & Wenger take advantage of that situation?

 

[Cassidy]

The worrying thing about that year's title challenge was that I clearly remember them being within 4 or 5 points behind Leicester as late as March, they actually had a really good chance but bottled it in the end.

And what's this about his 2nd season ? Ranieri won it in his first year with Leicester!

Thats a silly comment in the end as it was a freak season.

Agree though they crumbled against Arsenal and thats what lost them the chance. My point really was that it takes time to build a side and the followijg season getting 86 points shows a massive improvement which is impressive. That is a sign of a very good coach

 

[Shark]

Yes. If he's not performing to standard (or if you think you can do even better with someone else) you sack him. We're looking for a coach, not a father figure for our damaged fanbase.

When SAF said “stick by your manager” I think some of our fans took it a tad too literally. I highly doubt he meant stick by mediocrity, it’s ok to sack managers that are dragging the club through the mud, like our current one.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Thats a silly comment in the end as it was a freak season.

Agree though they crumbled against Arsenal and thats what lost them the chance. My point really was that it takes time to build a side and the followijg season getting 86 points shows a massive improvement which is impressive. That is a sign of a very good coach

What do you mean by freak season? As in a weak league? Because Leicester did what Liverpool are doing now, they had an incredible mentality and always found a way to grind out wins. Poch has never done that, except maybe last year's CL. No one has gone as far as to say he's a shite coach, or a fraud, just not a WC one, or even a mickey mouse cup one.

 

[USREDEVIL]

People keep banging on about how Poch has not won any trophies , but went on to name their preference in managers like Bielsa and Nagelsmann. What significant trophies have these managers won? Not a discredit to any of these two and they deserve praise for the work they have done, but this "not winning any trophies" reason to discredit Poch has got to stop.

It’s all they’ve got but then do not have any solution for some unknown title winning manager that is waiting to manage United.

 

[Balu]

Why didn’t former serial winners LVG & Wenger take advantage of that situation?

Both are rightfully criticised for having a bad season that year. Not sure how that's relevant to the post I quoted though.

 

[Cassidy]

What do you mean by freak season? As in a weak league? Because Leicester did what Liverpool are doing now, they had an incredible mentality and always found a way to grind out wins. Poch has never done that, except maybe last year's CL. No one has gone as far as to say he's a shite coach, or a fraud, just not a WC one, or even a mickey mouse cup one.

They won the title with 81 points, one of the lowest in a while. Pool about to set the most points ever in a prem season. Spurs came 2nd the next season with 86 points. It was a freak season for Ranieri and Leicester since they have never repeated it or done it before.


If someone does something only once it tells you it was an anomaly

 

[Dinghy]

Ole at Stamford Bridge: 3 wins / 3 matches
Poch away vs top 6: 3 wins / 30 matches

 

[Fletchageddon]

I'm just looking at actual physical trophies. Poch has won none. He's going to go somewhere else and challenge for a title there too, then move on. He's not a winner.

He also didn't refresh his squad when it was absolutely clear he needed to. Never rested Kane when it was clear he needed to. There are way more negatives to hiring him than keeping Ole. Ole is making progress whilst having got rid of the deadwood. He also knows how to win. As a player and a manager.

 

[Canadianred17]

I'm just looking at actual physical trophies. Poch has won none. He's going to go somewhere else and challenge for a title there too, then move on. He's not a winner.

He also didn't refresh his squad when it was absolutely clear he needed to. Never rested Kane when it was clear he needed to. There are way more negatives to hiring him than keeping Ole. Ole is making progress whilst having got rid of the deadwood. He also knows how to win. As a player and a manager.

This is the worst United team I've ever seen and you say that Ole is making progress.

 

[meamth]

Ole at Stamford Bridge: 3 wins / 3 matches
Poch away vs top 6: 3 wins / 30 matches

Saw his stats against the big 6.
Woeful.

At least Ole knows some shit about big games.

 

[meamth]

This is the worst United team I've ever seen and you say that Ole is making progress.

This is progress.
This team has a lot more character since the last title winning team.

 

[Fletchageddon]

This is the worst United team I've ever seen and you say that Ole is making progress.

Where were you the past 6 years mate? Ole is way better than Moyes, LVG and Jose.

We have young exciting players coming through and playing some exciting stuff. It takes 2-3 years to build a proper team. Ole is doing it right. I just hope the Glazers and Woodward back him.

 

[Cassidy]

Where were you the past 6 years mate? Ole is way better than Moyes, LVG and Jose.

We have young exciting players coming through and playing some exciting stuff. It takes 2-3 years to build a proper team. Ole is doing it right. I just hope the Glazers and Woodward back him.

Jose finished 2nd in the league. LVG team was also better than this

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Jose finished 2nd in the league

He'll make sure that gets etched on his gravestone.

 

[meamth]

Jose finished 2nd in the league. LVG team was also better than this

Both are snore fest.
Ole is significantly better, although with lower percentage of wins.

I'd rather support my club like this and getting behind the young team.

 

[Cassidy]

Both are snore fest.
Ole is significantly better, although with lower percentage of wins.

I'd rather support my club like this and getting behind the young team.

Oles United is a snore fest also not sure what you have been watching

 

[Member 58925]

Who do you want then? Ole is way out of his depth. Klopp and Pep can never sign for us. Conte and Simeone may bring success but they sign old players with a very different style to what United want. You are then left with Poch and maybe 3/4 others.

You honestly think that concludes the list of available and realistic hires that are better than our current manager.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Ole at Stamford Bridge: 3 wins / 3 matches
Poch away vs top 6: 3 wins / 30 matches

Spurs arguably have a better team too.

 

[Josep Dowling]

You honestly think that concludes the list of available and realistic hires that are better than our current manager.

This thread is about Poch not Ole. I don’t think there are many managers better than Poch. Just my opinion.

 

[meamth]

Oles United is a snore fest also not sure what you have been watching

I never fell asleep watching Ole's team.

The other two?
Yeah. I did.

 

[Fletchageddon]

There were very, very few moments of excitement with Jose's team. It was all so dull. The past 16 or so months have seen some absolutely fantastic moments. That's just from resurrecting someone else's team. I can't wait to see what Ole does with a few more players.

We are slowly getting a little consistency. But Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[meamth]

Howson is spot on when he said he doesn't rate Poch:



There are many facts, and I think I'm convinced that Poch shouldn't be our next manager.

Would rather stick with Ole for another season.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Ole at Stamford Bridge: 3 wins / 3 matches
Poch away vs top 6: 3 wins / 30 matches

Yes, almost as if the actual league tables don't matter … as long as you have a nice selection of other stats to look at.

 

[R'hllor]

What time to be alive, listening drivels of that cnut.

 

[RedSky]

Yes, almost as if the actual league tables don't matter … as long as you have a nice selection of other stats to look at.

To be fair, if he actually won more of those matches you may have actually won a trophy or two under him. It's arguably one of his main weaknesses as a Manager.

 

[Dinghy]

Yes, almost as if the actual league tables don't matter … as long as you have a nice selection of other stats to look at.

That's from league -and cup games. When the pressure is on he just doesn't seem to cut it, and consistently drawing or losing these big games is what have cost you throphies. That stat is piss poor for any manager, let alone for someone who's managing one of the top 3-4 teams in the league.

 

[Mindhunter]

Some serious revisionism happening in this thread. I really like the stability Pochettino brought to Spurs as well as the generation of young players he developed for the team. In the process, he did reach some important finals and brought a big team mentality to the club. Other top clubs were really vary for Spurs and on their day they could defeat any team. I would love Poch at United for the next 2-3 years.

However, let's not change the entire narrative here. From a trophy winning standpoint he was a failure. On a given day his team lacked the desire and the X factor to truly bring out another level to get over the line. It was always the other team “wanted it more”. Also the year Leicester won it does paint a sorry picture for Spurs and Poch. It was almost he believed in his mind that Spurs need more are don’t have enough to fight on all fronts and that sadly became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[GlastonSpur]

That's from league -and cup games. When the pressure is on he just doesn't seem to cut it, and consistently drawing or losing these big games is what have cost you throphies. That stat is piss poor for any manager, let alone for someone who's managing one of the top 3-4 teams in the league.

The stat was cited to give an unfavourable comparison with Ole. Yet where did Ole's team finish last season in the league compared to Pochettino?

Hence why I said it's "almost as if the actual league tables don't matter … as long as you have a nice selection of other stats to look at."

 

[Dinghy]

The stat was cited to give an unfavourable comparison with Ole. Yet where did Ole's team finish last season in the league compared to Pochettino?

Hence why I said it's "almost as if the actual league tables don't matter … as long as you have a nice selection of other stats to look at."

The current Spurs-manager is the reason why Ole finished below Poch in the league. How's that a fair comparison?

Since Ole took over (21 Dec 2018) 21 games:

2018/19 season:
Ole: 40 points (3rd most points)
Poch: 32 points (7th most points)

2019/20 season until Poch got fired:
Ole: 16 points
Poch: 14 points

Head to head Ole vs Poch: 2-0 (one pre-season game)

...and Poch has had the better squad.

 

[GlastonSpur]

The current Spurs-manager is the reason why Ole finished below Poch in the league. …

There's no way of knowing that. And if the Mourinho is the supposed reason, then you need to explain how he's managing the same club (Spurs) that is again currently ahead of Ole in the table … despite the much greater spending on players at United (compared to Spurs) since Ole took over.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

However, let's not change the entire narrative here. From a trophy winning standpoint he was a failure. On a given day his team lacked the desire and the X factor to truly bring out another level to get over the line. It was always the other team “wanted it more”. Also the year Leicester won it does paint a sorry picture for Spurs and Poch. It was almost he believed in his mind that Spurs need more are don’t have enough to fight on all fronts and that sadly became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Well it's a strange one this, because Ole's side also can't ever seem to get stuff over the line either, but in a worse way so far than Poch's, I mean how many times have the 4th place team dropped points including last season only for us to feck it up?
Our first semi final this season and we'd lost it by HT in the first leg.

The Leicester thing is just a nonsense, it was a freak year from a freak team in which they beat both Wenger and Poch, with an inferior squad and manager, it will never make any sense so best not to try.

Jörgen Klopp used to be the shittest manager around at getting it over the line and winning finals, I don't think it's really a "thing", either for Ole or Poch or anyone for that matter. Ultimately the players have to get things over the line, the manager just has to give them the chance to do so.

Players who are not experienced at winning might struggle when it comes to the crunch but I really don't believe manager's do. Then there are obviously experts at winning finals like Mourinho, who will throw everything he believes out of the window just to ensure he wins that game, by hook or by crook, but he's a very rare manager in that sense.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

...and Poch has had the better squad.

The stats are good, but I don't agree with the last bit at all.

 

[Dinghy]

There's no way of knowing that. And if the Mourinho is the supposed reason, then you need to explain how he's managing the same club (Spurs) that is again currently ahead of Ole in the table … despite the much greater spending on players at United (compared to Spurs) since Ole took over.

Which is why comparing them both from the time he arrived is the most fair thing to do, even though Poch had been in charge for 5 years and bought 27 players in that time. How can Ole be held responsible for what the previous manager did? I need to explain to you why Mourinho is doing ok with the players that Pochettino had been in charge of for 5 years and couldn't get a tune out of?