I'm pretty sure that's not the reason. You'd have to be insane not to recognise the tremendous work he did at Espanyol, Saints and Spurs. Yes, Ole deserved the job after that incredible run but now the experiment is over.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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I'm pretty sure that's not the reason. You'd have to be insane not to recognise the tremendous work he did at Espanyol, Saints and Spurs. Yes, Ole deserved the job after that incredible run but now the experiment is over.
I really think he'll end up somewhere else as we'll dither and stick with Ole for too long.
This.
And he should not be allowed to oversee yet another management appointment. Remember at the start of this decade Liverpool were just as poorly run by clueless business buffoons and only turned things around by putting men in place that had knowledge of football. The appointment of Michael Edwards was key and it was a perfect environment for Klopp to succeed.
Liverpool were literally on verge of administration. They were in a seriously bad way. Is that what's going to take for our fans to take action? Because there is no other way were getting rid of Glazers. Our fans a passive.
We're stuck with Ole simply because we're on the verge of landing a super talent in Erling Haaland because of Ole.
I do believe Ole could turn things around if we could land Saul Niguez and Sean Longstaff in January. If we can't land a world class central midfielder in January then we will be lucky to finish in the top half of the table. Milinkovic-Savic was probably worth a punt last summer.
I do believe Ole could turn things around if we could land Saul Niguez and Sean Longstaff in January. If we can't land a world class central midfielder in January then we will be lucky to finish in the top half of the table. Milinkovic-Savic was probably worth a punt last summer.
My point was they turned things around by getting the structure of the club right from top to bottom. Recruitment is world class from them now while United remain amateur. What has happened to this so called director of football that United was promised?
Fans aren't going to get rid of the Glazers (in it for the money and pay no attention to any criticism) but at least someone in the board room should have a word in their ears about removing Woodward from his position of appointing or working alongside the next manager.
They didn't appoint an amateur manager - we did. Put Ole in that Liverpool structure 4-5 years ago and they would've been just as shit as they were before.
United had Mourinho and LVG two former top managers with CVs better than Klopp before the current "amateur" one was appointed. Klopp would struggle to succeed with the structure of United much like he did towards the end of his time with Dortmund. I think a lot of any decent available managers will avoid United so long as the club is so poorly run. Only the desperate ones off the back of poor runs themselves will say yes to this job as it pays well and you will receive a nice package if sacked, just ask Jose.
While I had always questioned Poch’s elite coach status because his lack of silverware, our situation screams for someone who can build a squad. The club is not attractive to players and coaches, and have great expectation at the moment, which means Poch type of coach is the best candidate. I know people have preference for the German coaches. Thing is Poch had proven he can maintain a certain level in PL for years, while the German coaches had everything to prove. Not everyone would be another Klopp, and Klopp had to prove himself in style back at Dortmund.
Key word is former top managers. We were late in both appointments. And one of those former top managers is currently as close to being retired as ever and the other one is managing the 'worst' club in his career since Porto.
There's absolutely no indication that Klopp would struggle to succeed with the structure we currently have.
Whilst the sample size is really small at the moment and sure those young German coaches have much to prove, Nagelsmann propelled a relegation threatened side into CL for the first time in their history.
This year when he made the step up he's top at the BL and just qualified to the last 16 as a top of the group. Through in the Pokal as well after an emphatic win against Wolfsburg and has already proven during this season that he can overcome a bad run (5 games without a win).
He has also a very clear style and also being able to mix things up in terms of formation.
Our situation screams of someone who can use our players to their strengths and also can vary in terms of opposition.
Those German managers - Nagelsmann and Rose have that in them and despite being young can prove to be very effective appointments.
Nagelsmann had been with Hoffenheim via different level for forever. His work with Hoffenheim is impressive, but with context, he had already preparation, know how with the club system.
RBL clearly had a good structure in place for years now. Bouncing back from several defeat is nothing comparing to dealing with unknown of higher up incompetence. It’s not mere tactic for us anymore, but dealing with bs string puller, and a random assemble of players. Poch initial start with Tottenham is closer to that description. And being realistic, why would Nagelsmann jump ship now when he‘s in good position to build himself a reputation for this sinking ship? He continues to do well, he can move to too club in their pomp in near future. Why takes this poison chalice? Poch is out of the job at the moment, with a point to prove and our situation doesn’t look like we can play the long waiting game.
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Are you in denial with how toxic United have become these last 7 years? The club has basically become the English AC Milan who keep changing managers without much improvement while not getting to the root of their problem.
Former top manager only became refined after their spells with United. LVG shortly before he arrived at United won the Dutch league title for a lesser club and led the Netherlands to the World Cup semi final, two seasons before Jose arrived he won the Premier league for Chelsea. Both have spoken publicly about how poor United are run as a football club. I don't believe Klopp would have gone near such a poorly run club as United. He had impressive CV built up at Dortmund and said yes to healthy environment that allowed him to succeed further in managment.
This a 1000 times.
Well it's not really. If we gave Pochettino the same set of players and the same amount of time I'm sure results would be similar, then we'd be talking about him being fired as well and how he's never won anything etc. No one's going to come in and turn everything around over night because we need a rebuild, which we are in the process of. If Solskjaer isn't trusted to do that then we should let him go now but it looks like the board trust him to at least get the recruitment right so this is us for at least the next season. Will be interesting to see what happens when we don't finish in the top 4 come the end of the season.
He wouldn't now. Rose probably wouldn't either. I was explaining why he's a very popular choice and why he would most likely succeed everywhere he goes.
Out of our current options Poch seems the best one, considering the German coaches won't be available.
Real have been doing that for decades and still appoint top managers without a question. Chelsea do that too along with many other top clubs.
Poison chalice is a bit overrated. United is still a very popular choice.
LvG was past it, I'm not sure how you can argue about that. He won the Dutch league in 09 - was appointed in 2014. He managed a national side for 2 years before appointed at United. Sacked at Bayern in his last tenure at a club.
Jose also had his worst season at Chelsea the year he was appointed. He was the closest to a top manager we got and if it wasn't for his tantrums he was doing pretty well up until Sevilla.
Liverpool before Klopp was as bad as you can get. If we hire a top manager on the rise I'm pretty sure we will see that healthy environment pretty soon.
I'm pretty sure he had sign some sort of anti-rival clause during X period of time, hence the main reason he's not being appointed to the Arsenal job
Our choice of managers was far worse than the state of the structures at the club. Steve McClaren won the Dutch league with a lesser team, and I'd honestly say he's a better manager than Van Gaal. Van Gaal causes nothing but trouble and chaos anytime he's at a big club. Van Gaal sold Zaha and promised us he would turn the likes of Januzaj, Lingard and borthwick-jackson into superstars if given time.
Mourinho was an absolute disaster. Man Utd is about everyone pulling their weight together, and is a club not designed to handle a self-absorbed ego of that level. The man who sold De Bruyne and Salah for peanuts, as if to say he's certain they will never make it, as soon as he arrived in his last stint at Chelsea. Having good structures or not doesn't mean anything to a checkbook manager, whose only interest is to spend fortunes on ready-made stars. Everything from his tactics, to his philosophy to his attitude was the opposite of what a Utd manager should be. He left a toxic dressing room and a huge mess for the next guy to fix, and was handsomely compensated so we could be free of his childish tantrums.
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If your reason for not wanting Pochettino is because we've signed top managers in the past and they've all failed then you should consider a few things.
Since Fergie left our squad has needed a rebuild, our good players were already declining, the rest were average or just a little above. We thought Moyes would be that manager but he was clueless at top level. After that failed we started panicking and started appointing proven managers that work for a quick fix instead of a rebuild.
Mourinho and Van Gaal are very good managers but they have only proven to be good by managing 'already made teams' or 'stable' teams. They have never carried out a rebuild that we've so desperately needed since Ferguson left. They are more of quick fix managers like what Bayern needs right now.
Saying that we shouldn't hire a proven manager because of our past failings is short sighted because we do need proven manager but of the right criteria. A manager that has proven to carry out a rebuild.
You could say that a DOF carries out a rebuild but the truth is we're not going to appoint one and this has reduced the number of managers we can get for a rebuild to only Pochettino. Because he is the only one that has proven to not just carry out a rebuild but to do so without a DOF
Since Fergie left our squad has needed a rebuild, our good players were already declining, the rest were average or just a little above. We thought Moyes would be that manager but he was clueless at top level. After that failed we started panicking and started appointing proven managers that work for a quick fix instead of a rebuild.
Mourinho and Van Gaal are very good managers but they have only proven to be good by managing 'already made teams' or 'stable' teams. They have never carried out a rebuild that we've so desperately needed since Ferguson left. They are more of quick fix managers like what Bayern needs right now.
Saying that we shouldn't hire a proven manager because of our past failings is short sighted because we do need proven manager but of the right criteria. A manager that has proven to carry out a rebuild.
You could say that a DOF carries out a rebuild but the truth is we're not going to appoint one and this has reduced the number of managers we can get for a rebuild to only Pochettino. Because he is the only one that has proven to not just carry out a rebuild but to do so without a DOF
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Tremendous work? Take it easy a little bit. 0 trophies as a coach and getting sacked 2 of 3 clubs. Leaving Espanyol in relegation zone. Making Tottenham full with stars worse then us. Tremendous? I think not. Good coach although.
Liverpool were bad at the start of this decade but they weren't that bad before Klopp arrived, under Rodgers they made a title challenge but it wasn't until Edwards was brought in before recruitment became spot on and that made Klopps job easier to succeed in.
While Chelsea, Real Madrid have lack of patience with managers their owners main focus over the last number of years is success on the pitch and picking up trophies can you say the same about Uniteds owners or Ed the banker that appoints and sacks managers? To me United are run more like AC Milan, BTW they sit 11th in the serie A league and shipped a 5-0 loss yesterday so should be on the look out for another new manager.
I admire your optimism but I can't help thinking you are one of those fellas who thinks everything will be fine by putting the cart before the horse.
I am still not too sure about him. He is a good coach, won't deny that but his football being an attacking one is massively overrated. I always found his style of football to be less attractive and more laborious. I don't think his side were able to completely dominate other sides in big games either. Playing off the counter was his style too. If he is hired, I will back him and hope he is a success but I think soem of our fans are overrating him as a manager.
Bit of catch 22 for me, I'm liking Ole for the way he's recognised the culture at United since Fergie left has gone horribly wrong in the form of players such as Sanchez, Lukaku and in a way Pogba , mentality, application, desire and personalitys haven't been researched before purchases at all, coupled with poor signings such as Smalling, Jones, Young and a sub United standard being allowed to set in with wave after wave of poor singings and lack of stability. Ole is addressing this which I thinks great, big question is is he a good enough coach?
I honestly think we d benefit from appointing Pochettino , but il throw this out there I think Ole would make a great director of football, he obviously gets the United way, as I've said above we can see despite being a bit hamstrung by Woodward he's shifting the players out who aren't United cloth, other clubs such as Ajax have appointed ex players such as Van der Sar as directors of football, I can't help but think it'd be a really good move giving the job to Ole and having him work with Poch.
Let Ole continue his work of transforming the squad and identifying more players who would thrive here, while having Pochettino handle the coaching
I honestly think we d benefit from appointing Pochettino , but il throw this out there I think Ole would make a great director of football, he obviously gets the United way, as I've said above we can see despite being a bit hamstrung by Woodward he's shifting the players out who aren't United cloth, other clubs such as Ajax have appointed ex players such as Van der Sar as directors of football, I can't help but think it'd be a really good move giving the job to Ole and having him work with Poch.
Let Ole continue his work of transforming the squad and identifying more players who would thrive here, while having Pochettino handle the coaching
He also came in saved Espanyol from relegation. Yeah going to Saints and getting up as high as 8th in the league is tremendous work. He made Spurs arguably one of the best most consistent teams in the league for a period of time despite being on shoe string budget. Our own Sir Alex thinks highly enough of him for him to call him best manager in the league. Regardless, whether he won trophies or not, I think he definitely will at his next club.
He's been home in the Southern hemisphere, so it's summer here!
Not fully convinced by him. He says some strange things and I’m not sure his mentality is the right one for where we want to get back to. His football isn’t that attractive either.
I would rather someone like Nagelsmann.
I would rather someone like Nagelsmann.
Or Marco Rose
Having just left spurs, and been considered a bit of a legend there (despite winning nothing), there was zero chance he was going to Arsenal.
What is most likely true, is that if a team appoints him this season, then spurs would pay Poch less compensation.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him take 6 months off and be back somewhere in the summer. He’s got his longer term reputation to think about, and going somewhere mid season using going to help him.
I'd be willing to get him in despite the bad end to his time at Spurs.
We have spent a lot, around a billion. Of course right now we need a manager who the club can trust and see a progression to start spending again. I think Poch can do more here to avoid the team getting stale, you also have to understand clubs cycle through managers, if it goes to crap after 4-5 years then that's not rare and more common.
One negative for Spurs after coming 2nd, they slowed down the scoring rate to United's poor levels over 2.5 years. For about 2 years they tracked inline with us. Whole of last season they got 67, we got 65 in our Jose Ole disaster season.
We have spent a lot, around a billion. Of course right now we need a manager who the club can trust and see a progression to start spending again. I think Poch can do more here to avoid the team getting stale, you also have to understand clubs cycle through managers, if it goes to crap after 4-5 years then that's not rare and more common.
One negative for Spurs after coming 2nd, they slowed down the scoring rate to United's poor levels over 2.5 years. For about 2 years they tracked inline with us. Whole of last season they got 67, we got 65 in our Jose Ole disaster season.
He took over Espanyol when they were third from bottom. He left them dead last 2 years later. To call that tremendous work is far from truth. He did better with Southampton. I give you that. He then took Tottenham a step further than their previous managers but he also had internationals and big stars. Then we saw that he just fell apart this season and got sacked when club was in full speed dive.
Our own Sir Alex Ferguson thought that Moyes was the one too.
If he wins or not in his next club depends on what club and where. Lot of big teams are struggling in Europé right now. Then there was lots of talk about Real, Barca, Bayern, PSG, Milan, Napoli and so on wanting him so bad and here he is. Still out of job, How wierd for a next greatest (RedCafe) manager.
Main reason he hasn’t been appointed for the arsenal job is because he’d be fecking stupid to take it, they’re in a worse state than we are and have nothing to spend by comparison.
The money factor will be that he’s still on the books at Tottenham until his grace period is over, which could be 3 to 6 months. Until then he’s still paid by Tottenham unless he takes another job, which he’s probably in no rush to do so.
Damn. Anyway, it must be finished by now, how long can a garden take?
Let's be real here Pochetino is a quality manager, proven in this league and incidentally most suited to our current needs. We don't need an Ancelotti, Pep, Allegri or Mourinho type manager we need a Klopp or Pochetino type.
The rebuilding process is underway, we have talented young players and a decent base for a manager to work with. Like Liverpool did with Klopp in 2015, we should sign up this guy and give him the time which his track record deserves, give him the time which only a club which recognises the position it is in can give. Let's get it straight, we are a pretty bad football team, we are disjointed, we have players brought in by 3/4 different managers with different play styles, we are unbalanced and our inconsistency is a manifestation of these issues and once we accept that - like Liverpool did then we will move forward. Let the only judgement criteria for Pochetino be progress, give him no pressure to win trophies and allow him to build like he did at Spurs. Based on his track record we can have a top 4 side in 2/3 seasons then from then on, because we have that attribute which Spurs lack the key ingredient in winning trophies and building a top class football team I.e money we can allow him to make the step he failed to at Tottenham, we can to any squad he builds then add a top player each window or several like Liverpool did in 2018.
I'm quite certain the same complaints we give about Woodward were made by Liverpool about the transfer committee before Klopp came in. They were clamouring for it to be disbanded although I don't deny I'd enjoy it if Woodward were disbanded
The only variable that changed for Liverpool was that they brought in a top class manager. Suddenly all the decisions began to make sense.
And if it's not noticeable by now I use a lot of Liverpool examples and that's because they are the club most similar to this one no matter which way anyone looks at it. No matter how dirty it feels to say it. And they have gone through what we are experiencing right now and their blue print is what we should use to topple them or at the very least compete with them.
The rebuilding process is underway, we have talented young players and a decent base for a manager to work with. Like Liverpool did with Klopp in 2015, we should sign up this guy and give him the time which his track record deserves, give him the time which only a club which recognises the position it is in can give. Let's get it straight, we are a pretty bad football team, we are disjointed, we have players brought in by 3/4 different managers with different play styles, we are unbalanced and our inconsistency is a manifestation of these issues and once we accept that - like Liverpool did then we will move forward. Let the only judgement criteria for Pochetino be progress, give him no pressure to win trophies and allow him to build like he did at Spurs. Based on his track record we can have a top 4 side in 2/3 seasons then from then on, because we have that attribute which Spurs lack the key ingredient in winning trophies and building a top class football team I.e money we can allow him to make the step he failed to at Tottenham, we can to any squad he builds then add a top player each window or several like Liverpool did in 2018.
I'm quite certain the same complaints we give about Woodward were made by Liverpool about the transfer committee before Klopp came in. They were clamouring for it to be disbanded although I don't deny I'd enjoy it if Woodward were disbanded
The only variable that changed for Liverpool was that they brought in a top class manager. Suddenly all the decisions began to make sense.And if it's not noticeable by now I use a lot of Liverpool examples and that's because they are the club most similar to this one no matter which way anyone looks at it. No matter how dirty it feels to say it. And they have gone through what we are experiencing right now and their blue print is what we should use to topple them or at the very least compete with them.
Explain to me what parallels are we the same as AC. In the last 7 years AC Milan haven’t been in the champions league once!!! Once. They had investment for one whole season and have gone through as many managers as Inter who are currently top 3.
Stop with the lazy comparisons either talk some sense or don’t talk at all.
Ultimately Glazers are the problem. How does it cost to hire DoF? Why are we saving on the money? Ed can stick on business side of things, purely making Utd as a brand. Hire a competent footballing man to support the current coach. Everything will slowly turn better. However, this will not include Ole. Everyone can see that this man is not up to the job. Poch is ideal for a young team. In 3-4 years time, this team will be challenging. With Ole, it will not happen.
Not lazy more like a very striking comparison. AC Milan a club just like United that was one of the worlds best football clubs on the field of play, admired and feared in equal measure by the opposition but nowadays year after year both stuck in a mediocre rut.
AC Milan last league title 2011 and last champions league title 2007. Compared to United 2013 last league and 2008 last champions league. Average league season points for United since Ferguson retired 69 compared to Milan with 60 points average in the last 6 seasons.
Conclusion two poorly run clubs with supporters of both clubs hoping that rise from/out of mediocrity will come sooner than later..
Not that striking. Inter last won the CL and Serie A in 2010.
United have been in the CL 3 times, got to two Quarter Finals, one being last year, won the Europa/Uefa cup, finished 2nd place in the League recently. The financial status of each club is very different. Milan have had more than double the managers we've had, if our next 4 managers are Garry Neville, Tim Sherwood, Nicky Butt, Bilic I'll concede the manager point.
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How many stars did he have when he took over at Spurs? What part did he play in developing stars?