True but he can spend his time recruiting players he wants.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
True but he can spend his time recruiting players he wants.
Has anyone taken a serious look at Mauricio Pochettino yet?
No; we were waiting for you Random Task.
Ole's record:
Poch's record:
If you take into account the size of the teams, the state of squads when taken over, and the resources available - I don't think Poch is too far ahead (if at all).
The one thing Pochettino really doesn't have is a winner's mentality. Sure, he can make his side play pretty football. And sure, he's got a decent tactical mind. But even during 'glory' days, Tottenham were always prone to crumbling under psychological pressure.
For all of Ole's faults, you can't accuse him of that. He's beaten the big teams in England and won titles abroad. Granted, he's only won them in Norway. But in a competetive scenario, it's about having bigger balls and a stronger constitution that the opponent.
Solskjaer has an iron will. Poch hasn't yet proven he does.
| P | W | D | L | Win % | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Team | From | To | Record | ||||
9 November 2010 | 2 January 2014 | 125 | 69 | 25 | 31 | 55.2 | |
2 January 2014 | 18 September 2014 | 30 | 9 | 5 | 16 | 30.0 | |
Molde | 21 October 2015 | 28 March 2019 | 118 | 66 | 19 | 33 | 55.9 |
19 December 2018 | Present | 47 | 24 | 10 | 13 | 51.1 | |
| Total | 320 | 168 | 59 | 93 | 52.5 |
Poch's record:
| P | P | W | D | L | Win % | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Team | From | To | Record | ||||
20 January 2009 | 26 November 2012 | 161 | 53 | 38 | 70 | 32.9 | |
18 January 2013 | 27 May 2014 | 60 | 23 | 18 | 19 | 38.3 | |
27 May 2014 | 19 November 2019 | 293 | 159 | 62 | 72 | 54.3 | |
| Total | 514 | 235 | 118 | 161 | 45.7 |
The one thing Pochettino really doesn't have is a winner's mentality. Sure, he can make his side play pretty football. And sure, he's got a decent tactical mind. But even during 'glory' days, Tottenham were always prone to crumbling under psychological pressure.
For all of Ole's faults, you can't accuse him of that. He's beaten the big teams in England and won titles abroad. Granted, he's only won them in Norway. But in a competetive scenario, it's about having bigger balls and a stronger constitution that the opponent.
Solskjaer has an iron will. Poch hasn't yet proven he does.
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"She's turned the weans against us."
One managed in LA Liga and Premier League since he started coaching. The other managed in Norwegian league, with a short stint at a relegation fodder. Don't get how you see they aren't that "far away".
If Ole was that good why didn't any other PL clubs hire him during these last several years? Would he have got the United job at any different circumstances bar a caretaker after a sacked manager?
You've missed the point.
I read your post several times and I don't see really anything post what I replayed on. You can't ignore the level of competitions. Should we be interested in the winner of the current Norwegian league season if Ole leaves because he would have won more than Poch too?
You're still missing the point.
The point is about Pochettino's lack of psychological toughness, and his inability to inspire his team (regardless of which league they're in) to perform under pressure.
He's a nearly man.
New quality managers emerge all the time. Lampard at Chelsea. Ten Hag at Ajax. Some take longer to excel than others.
Ole probably deserves more time. He's shown that he's always had the desire to succeed as a manager, achieving moderate success along the way. Add that to being mentored by the very best in Mike Phelan, and with patience it could work very well.
Pochettino is among the very elite managers right now. He's in the top 3 managers on the planet now along with Pep and Klopp. The whole 'he hasn't won trophies' thing is nonsense. People said the same about Klopp last year as he hadn't won the CL. A lot of Jose's titles were practically empty victories, where in some cases he had 10 times more spending power than anyone else, didn't bother developing youth, and played dour Park the bus methods. Right now I'd easily have Pochettino as a better and more innovative manager than Jose in this moment in time.
I think Pochettino will be at Bayern soon. I think Ole is finally starting to get it right at Utd, and barring a mother of all cock ups, I think he'll have done enough come May to merit 1 more season at least to show what he can do.
Why do people keep saying he's the third best manager in the world?
Had Ole proved otherwise himself ? I mean this point is a solid one when you compare Poch to other top managers around but Ole's both stints at PL with both Cardiff and currently United have nothing to show for in that regard. I mean where is that mental toughness? Once we go down in the result it's pretty much game over for us. We didn't manage a single point from losing position so far this season.
I asked above if this criteria can be applied on the manager who is going to win the Norwegian league this season, does he have a stronger psychological toughness in him as well? Does the winner of any minnow league in the world have a strong mental aspect in comparison to top 4 PL managers, or does this apply only to Ole?
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Could Poch have us in the top 4 without Pogba, Martial, Shaw, Tuanzebe et all after this amount of games. Fair play he done well for Southampton but do you want United to be Southampton? Since we got Martial back things are much better, so instead of your replace the manager shit should you give him a chance when, hopefully, even more come back? Spurs football has been worse than ours this year. West Ham has been the only game we deserved to lose on balance of play by the way, including the fact we should have beat the League leaders while missing half our bloody team. Honestly rewatch every game from this season and you'll see on balance of play that apart from West Ham we 'should' have won them all. How do you think Liverpool would do missing 5 first teamers for 3-4 games?
Poch, while a good manager, has been a disgrace this past year. FFS even Spurs fans wanted him gone and he's their hero of believing that mediocrity matters. The day a failed Spurs manager (who has the new age Shearer in his team by chance) is good enough for United is the day we officially become a mid table club.
I think the sentimentality around OgS will cost us massively.
Whether we appoint Poch or not, the board needs to do its due diligence & assess every situation as it arises - a covered manager has become available.
If the feeling is Poch is a better manager than OgS we need to go for him regardless of past playing achievements.
Whether we appoint Poch or not, the board needs to do its due diligence & assess every situation as it arises - a covered manager has become available.
If the feeling is Poch is a better manager than OgS we need to go for him regardless of past playing achievements.
Were going to feel that way about many managers if Ole stays for awhile considering they'll all be better than him.
The other poster hasn’t missed the point, they’ve pointed out the clear flaws in the very very weak argument being put forward.
He's not a failed Spurs manager just like Eddie Howe isn't a failed Bournemouth manager.
Also, we have Ole as manager at our football club. We are in no position to make daft claims about how hiring much better managers than him somehow deflate our status.
We'll keep loitering around mediocrity in the hope that his latest false dawn actually means something.
I think Pochettino would be a great hiring. But I also wouldn't mind us going for the other hyped up young managers who may end up better - Rose etc
You're also missing the point. Well done.
He'll prove it at Bayern if he goes there. He's worked absolute miracles on a shoestring at Spurs for 5 seasons. It's obvious he downed tools at Spurs months ago. I'm sure he had his reasons. Broken promises from Levy perhaps
This is the worry; i keep reading that OgS ‘deserves’ the season but I don’t see what he’s done to deserve anything other than being replaced if a ‘better’ alternative becomes available; which looks to have happened.
I’m not particularly pro-Poch either; he’s no guarantee but OgS has shown his many frailties & simply wouldn’t be employed had he not played for us in a golden era.
Wasn't that the same thing people were saying about Moyes to counter his doubters when he first came on board in 2013?
Pochettino is a good manager - but he is nowhere near 3rd in the World. So I really hope no-one is saying that. And if that was the case - why, after 10 years in management are his clubs Espanyol, Southampton and Tottenham ?
I have never understood why fans want to replace OGS with a manager whose achievement in 10 years or management is reaching the C.L-final and losing, and having one brilliant season where Spurs ended 2nd - and then letting his team implode for whatever reason. If people absolutely want OGS gone, they could at least want to replace him by someone who has actually won anything, and who didn't destroy his team before being sacked.
You keep saying that people are missing the point. So what are you trying to discuss? That Ole has an "iron will" and Poch doesn't? So where was Ole's "iron will" when he relegated Cardiff? Where was the iron will to keep them in the PL? This is just pure speculation and we are both not psychological experts on the matter so I can't even see how this is even a point worth discussing.
How about we discuss this; If both Ole and Poch are sacked right now, which manager is going to get the better job offers? I think we both know the answer to that one.
Top coaches have already commented on Poch's sacking, and stating that Poch will definitely be in contention for top clubs.
Redcafe experts: But did he win a trophy???!!!
Everyone's seeing your point, and deciding it's not a very good point. Pochettino will be in the running for massive jobs in future. At this point, even though I would like him to remain as Man Utd manager, and want him to have a real chance and backing, Ole is the equivalent of a competition winner.
I like how you added Tuanzebe in that list as if he is an essential player when last season he wasn't even featured at all.
I have no reason to believe he couldn't have us around 5/4th without hot and cold players such as Martial, shaw and Pogba
Poch would never have gone into the season with such a threadbare squad to find himself in that position of being in an injury crisis from 3 players being injured, in the first place.
Since we got Martial back, we have beat teams we should be beating. The bar has been set so low that wins over brighton, partizan and norwich are seen as miracles.
Where did you get the idea of me wanting United to aspire to be like Southampton?
I brought up Southampton to compare the way Poch approached the job to how Ole approached the Cardiff job.
Since Ole's acolytes say Cardiff was on their way down,I say, so was Southampton. Difference is Poch didn't resign himself to fate and make things worse. He actually did what he was hired to do and that was improve their results and position.
There's no point a club sacking a manager, only to bring a new one in and say ''well, results were failing before,so it's not the new managers fault if the results are still shit.''
As for Poch being a disgrace this, year Ole wasn't that far behind him. Besides one bad period doesn't to define a manager's ability, otherwise Klopp wouldn't be where he is today.
He almost relegated Dortmound the season before he took charge of liverpool. You could say he was a disgrace in his last season, but anyone sensible would know he took Dortmund as far as they could go before things became stale, which is what happens when a manager remains at a particular club with limitations for too long
Btw the day we became a mid table club is the day we appointed coach with no top level managerial experience and who is in the job on the back of a 3 month managerial bounce hot streak. We actually sit mid table right now and you're ok with that because of injuries which every single team in the prem get
The only thing that I would say Ole has over Poch, is that he has a world class smile
Like how I’ve never understood giving a manager more time simply because it’s the right thing to do.
I’ve stated I’m not Poch’s biggest fan; but he has become available & despite his lack of winning [something OgS has only managed in his native country] he is a coveted manager with an actual track record of coaching youngsters up.
Neither may be ‘the man’ but my 2 biggest issues with OgS [see prior posts] are his tactical ineptitude & his lack of player improvement. If the ideal manager is unavailable I’d much rather have Poch of these 2 because he’ll tangibly improve our youngsters at least.
This is more a case of OgS shouldn’t be our manager; we aren’t replacing him with Klopp or Pep [or a number of ‘the best’ coaches] & we are no longer even a Top 4 side. We’re about Poch level currently.
Won something? So I take it you’d prefer Allegri? Either or their both better options than OgS. The won something argument falls flat when OgS’s win record in England is so poor. We would not be replacing SAF.
I strongly agree with the bolded parts. Ole is much tougher than people realise and his teams tend to perform on big occasions.
I'd say its far more closer to comparing the miracles Klopp has worked at Liverpool, with less spending power than the rest, as opposed to comparing Poch to Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis.
You can twist it any way you want, but getting to a CL final without spending for years was one of many miracles Poch performed at Spurs. His teams always played nice football and he turned potential into stars time and time again. It won't be long before he's at Madrid, winning title after title, and everyone will then say 'We were mad not to go for him'.... But I trust in Ole and feel he'll get it right despite plenty more agony along the way.
You're missing the point, because you keep not talking about the point.
Pochettino has been a bottler when it comes to winning things.
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Leadership.You keep saying that people are missing the point. So what are you trying to discuss? That Ole has an "iron will" and Poch doesn't? So where was Ole's "iron will" when he relegated Cardiff? Where was the iron will to keep them in the PL? This is just pure speculation and we are both not psychological experts on the matter so I can't even see how this is even a point worth discussing.
How about we discuss this; If both Ole and Poch are sacked right now, which manager is going to get the better job offers? I think we both know the answer to that one.
Top coaches have already commented on Poch's sacking, and stating that Poch will definitely be in contention for top clubs.
Redcafe experts: But did he win a trophy???!!!
If Ole can lead a group of Norwegian League players to the Norwegian title, he's proven he has the leadership and inspirational skills to take a group of men over the line in a competitive scenario.
A top football coach gets a team playing good football.
A top manager manages a team to success in a stressful scenario (this counts for football as much as any other industry).
A top football manager gets a team playing good football and can also lead them to success without bottling it.
Ole is a good manager and has proven it. Pochettino is a good coach. Neither has proven they're top football managers.
People are missing the point because they assume that everybody is a hater/fanboy. I'm neither. I'm looking at the bigger picture.
That has got to be one of the most blinkered and deluded opinions that I've happened to read on here, but so long as you get to see the big picture.
Blinkered in what way? Because I think Pochettino has proven himself to be a better coach than Solskjaer?
OK, so we should start scouting the winners of Norwegian league, Greek league, Swiss league and those minnows because these managers proved they can go over the line as Ole? Why do you keep dodging this question?
Those managers have shown they have a winning mentality. It doesn't mean they're good enough football coaches.
Being a good coach and a good leader are two different things. Ideally, a Manchester United manager would be both.
I'm not dodging anything. You keep missing the point and pigeon-holing me into hater/fanboy categories.
I've not said either Ole or Pochettino are top class. Each has weaknesses in certain areas.
I've also said in other threads in the past that I think Solskjaer should be sacked. And you won't find me anywhere saying that I don't want Pochettino at United.
How did they win a league of multiple games over the course of the season when they aren't enough good coaches? I don't think a manager can win such a trophy by such wanting to win. Either they are good enough and we should scout them for the job from now kn or that these leagues are minnows that you can't build any conclusion upon. Which one is it?
If Poch now moves to Bayern and won 5 leagues in the league as they are used to anyway will that means he has a winning mentality now?
Yes, but so have a whole host of managers across the world we would never consider plausible candidates for the United job, nor likely shouts for managers who might be better than Poch.
There's only one reason Ole finds himself at the - ahem - wheel at United. And it has nothing to do with him winning the Norwegian league. Well, perhaps not nothing - but very little.
Poch's lack of trophies isn't unrelated to where he's been working thus far. The one black mark against him in that regard is Spurs' failure to capitalize on the anomaly that was the '16 season. And even that is somewhat tenuous.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not a Poch fan. But this "he hasn't won anything" argument only goes so far. If he gets the Bayern gig and wins the Bundesliga (with a squad that is relatively speaking miles better compared to the contenders in that league than Spurs ever were under him), has he all of a sudden turned into a "winner", a "non-bottler"?
He'll have finally proven he has one, after years of showing he didn't.
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