A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

ivaldo said:
They finished below Chelsea last season, a point ahead of Arsenal and at one stage was perilously close to finishing below us.

Levy was as important as anyone in building the current Spurs squad. So what has Poch achieved that deserves the praise he's garnered over recent years?
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Yeah the decline started well at the end of last season and there were already murmurs about squad disharmony with the likes of Eriksen, Toby and Vertgonghen wanting to go. Spurs had some decent hits in past few years with players like Son, Alli, The Ajax trio and more recently Moura but they were still getting results on the backs of their own youth players, who Poch helped develop as well.

They were still extremely limited in midfield even at their best, relying on the likes of Dier, Dembele, Wanyama and more recently Sissoko. If they had made the outlay they did this last summer with Lo Celso and Ndombele a little earlier and bedded them in, their potential would have been fulfilled. At times the margins for error at the top are pretty small especially when City are investing the GDP of a third world country on the likes of Bernardo Silva to compliment an already great squad every year.
 
R'hllor said:
Dont care much about all getting Poch thing but its funny how people shit on him (guess they think, thats how they fight OGS corner) and on people who want him. If Ole gets sacked tomorrow and they get Poch in, that same bunch will flip and disregard all the shitting they did and giving examples to prove their point in the past.
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Likewise those who shit on Ole with X amount of wins in Y matches, then can't hold back their excitement for the idea of bringing in Poch, who has a worse record during the same period.
 
We all know deep down how this pans out.
His run of underwhelming results and performances continues. He leaves them at the end of the season.

Then joins us. Past his best.
Continuing our run of the wrong choice of manager.
 
Sandikan said:
We all know deep down how this pans out.
His run of underwhelming results and performances continues. He leaves them at the end of the season.

Then joins us. Past his best.
Continuing our run of the wrong choice of manager.
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Like Klopp was past his best when he left Dortmund I guess.
 
Sandikan said:
We all know deep down how this pans out.
His run of underwhelming results and performances continues. He leaves them at the end of the season.

Then joins us. Past his best.
Continuing our run of the wrong choice of manager.
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It would be very difficult for us to get much better than Poch. If one bad season means Poch is past his best, you're setting too high a bar.
 
roonster09 said:
Its the case all the time. When Jose was the manager, Jose fans shat on Poch and his achievements, once he was sacked they all suddenly realized how good Poch is/was.

He is very good manager though, if Ole is sacked, want him as next manager. Choice between him and couple of other managers.
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You and me had this chat before. 3 years ago Poch wasn't what he is now. It is like asking fans 2 years ago do they want Maguire, AWB or Cancelo. I bet that 90% fans here were over the moon when we bought Alexis. Look at opinion now. You can't know how some coach or player will develop.
Look at Klopp. He was very good manager when he was in Dortmund but now he is even better.

And of course that biggest question about Poch is his ability of winning trophies. But now, imo it is only question mark about him. In every other area he is class.
 
ivaldo said:
I'll ask you the same question. With the players he has at his disposal, is consolidating top 4 and picking up no silverware some great achievement, or is it about par on what you expect those players go achieve? The quality of the squad has improved significantly, and Poch of course has had some input into that, but ultimately, Spurs proficiency in the transfer market is largely down to Levy.
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Have Spurs actually been proficient in the transfer market though? I'd argue they've actually bought pretty badly in recent years.

There's a handful of decent buys in there but for every Heung-min Son there's a Vincent Janssen. If Pochettino hasn't had his choice of players and has still managed to do what he has at Spurs, that's still an achievement in itself. Could you imagine someone like Mourinho doing that?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
You and me had this chat before. 3 years ago Poch wasn't what he is now. It is like asking fans 2 years ago do they want Maguire, AWB or Cancelo. I bet that 90% fans here were over the moon when we bought Alexis. Look at opinion now. You can't know how some coach or player will develop.
Look at Klopp. He was very good manager when he was in Dortmund but now he is even better.

And of course that biggest question about Poch is his ability of winning trophies. But now, imo it is only question mark about him. In every other area he is class.
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Didn't know Jose fans means @Andycoleno9. I thought it was bigger group. Also I'm not even talking about 3 years ago, it was just 6 months before Jose was sacked.
 
CM10 said:
Have Spurs actually been proficient in the transfer market though? I'd argue they've actually bought pretty badly in recent years.

There's a handful of decent buys in there but for every Heung-min Son there's a Vincent Janssen. If Pochettino hasn't had his choice of players and has still managed to do what he has at Spurs, that's still an achievement in itself. Could you imagine someone like Mourinho doing that?
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Tottenham fans, lets resolve this topic. How Spurs are buying players? Levy is buying without Poch? Poch has final decision? Poch ( his scouts) pick players and Levy buys them?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Tottenham fans, lets resolve this topic. How Spurs are buying players? Levy is buying without Poch? Poch has final decision? Poch ( his scouts) pick players and Levy buys them?
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You could substitute Utd,Ole,Woody in there
 
roonster09 said:
Didn't know Jose fans means @Andycoleno9. I thought it was bigger group. Also I'm not even talking about 3 years ago, it was just 6 months before Jose was sacked.
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:lol::lol:. It is a group but members went in hiding after he is sacked because inquisition started. ;). Some of us talk for them. Ha ha
 
I’ll never understand the doublethink between, first, praising Pochettino’s unquestioned success on a proverbial shoestring and, second, him having inherited a £150m striker whilst having a first XI full of top players worth £50m+ who every pundit in the land rates better than their equivalents at Old Trafford and the Emirates.

Is the difference between the perception in Poch’s reign really just the fact that Harry Kane was already at Spurs rather than having been bought?
 
Sandikan said:
We all know deep down how this pans out.
His run of underwhelming results and performances continues. He leaves them at the end of the season.

Then joins us. Past his best.
Continuing our run of the wrong choice of manager.
Click to expand...

Past his best? Are you trying to be ironic or something? Are managers shelf life just doing a good job at one or two clubs now and they're finished?
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Yeah the decline started well at the end of last season and there were already murmurs about squad disharmony with the likes of Eriksen, Toby and Vertgonghen wanting to go. Spurs had some decent hits in past few years with players like Son, Alli, The Ajax trio and more recently Moura but they were still getting results on the backs of their own youth players, who Poch helped develop as well.

They were still extremely limited in midfield even at their best, relying on the likes of Dier, Dembele, Wanyama and more recently Sissoko. If they had made the outlay they did this last summer with Lo Celso and Ndombele a little earlier and bedded them in, their potential would have been fulfilled. At times the margins for error at the top are pretty small especially when City are investing the GDP of a third world country on the likes of Bernardo Silva to compliment an already great squad every year.
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He has helped, but the bulk of their development was done well before his arrival. Kane for example had already played 16 times under Sherwood.

The season finishes prior to Poch's appointment were 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th and 6th, with that last season coinciding with AVBs sacking, and the form under Tim Sherwood when he came in was good enough for top 4. So they were a 4th/5th team before his arrival and a 3rd/4th place team under Poch with a much improved squad. So really, their progression under Poch is about par with where they should be. Only you would probably say they should've added some silverware to their cabinet in that time.
 
Judas said:
Past his best? Are you trying to be ironic or something? Are managers shelf life just doing a good job at one or two clubs now and they're finished?
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Crazy isn't it - he is one of the most promising young managers on the planet but he is now 'past his best' because of a period of poor form.
 
TMDaines said:
I’ll never understand the doublethink between, first, praising Pochettino’s unquestioned success on a proverbial shoestring and, second, him having inherited a £150m striker whilst having a first XI full of top players worth £50m+ who every pundit in the land rates better than their equivalents at Old Trafford and the Emirates.

Is the difference between the perception in Poch’s reign really just the fact that Harry Kane was already at Spurs rather than having been bought?
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Kane was a £10 million striker when Poch started.
 
CM10 said:
Have Spurs actually been proficient in the transfer market though? I'd argue they've actually bought pretty badly in recent years.

There's a handful of decent buys in there but for every Heung-min Son there's a Vincent Janssen. If Pochettino hasn't had his choice of players and has still managed to do what he has at Spurs, that's still an achievement in itself. Could you imagine someone like Mourinho doing that?
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That's a unique take on it. The signings made on a apparent shoestring budget has been one of the major cheering points for his supporters.

Could I imagine Jose averaging a 3rd/4th place finish with that squad? Absolutely. The difference is he would have been criticised for not doing better. Puts his 2nd place finish with us into perspective really.
 
ivaldo said:
He has helped, but the bulk of their development was done well before his arrival. Kane for example had already played 16 times under Sherwood.

The season finishes prior to Poch's appointment were 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th and 6th, with that last season coinciding with AVBs sacking, and the form under Tim Sherwood when he came in was good enough for top 4. So they were a 4th/5th team before his arrival and a 3rd/4th place team under Poch with a much improved squad. So really, their progression under Poch is about par with where they should be. Only you would probably say they should've added some silverware to their cabinet in that time.
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Their points total in 2016-17 would have been good enough to win the league in most seasons until Pep arrived at City and its 16 points higher than they ever managed in the premier league era, that's a notable improvement.

Being in the top 4 now is a completely different dogfight from doing it under Harry or Sherwood so just staying there while selling their best player from that era in Bale is a tough proposition for a club like Spurs. Making it to the champions league final is also no small thing for them especially with the performances against City in the knock out rounds and the high pressure point they secured at Nou camp. The Spurs before Pochettino couldn't even dream of being at that level.
 
ivaldo said:
So Poch gave him his talent? Without Poch he would still be a £10m talent?
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No but he helped with his development and continually played him - it's mostly down to Kane of course but to suggest he was a £100 million striker when Poch came in just isn't correct.
 
He’s done an amazing job at Spurs. Truly amazing. But I’m personally not a huge fan of that Spurs team in terms of their style and mentality, and while that might be more the players/immaturity than manager instructions I just don’t think he would be the saviour here that people expect.

Also, after Mourinho, I’d be really wary of bringing in a burnt out manager who looks like he needs an extended holiday.
 
ivaldo said:
That's a unique take on it. The signings made on a apparent shoestring budget has been one of the major cheering points for his supporters.

Could I imagine Jose averaging a 3rd/4th place finish with that squad? Absolutely. The difference is he would have been criticised for not doing better. Puts his 2nd place finish with us into perspective really.
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I don't actually know whether it's him or Levy signing the players, either way I don't think the signings have been a strong point for them. I do think Poch's stock has fallen a bit in the last 12 months but you can't deny the progress he's made with that Spurs team since his appointment.

I disagree re Mourinho. He's had one top 4 finish in his last four domestic seasons and was sacked in two of them. He'd have been too busy whinging about no signings last season to get a top 4 finish with that Spurs team last season, for starters.
 
What do people think of the signings he's made at Spurs?

2019
NDombele
Lo Celso
Sessegnon

2018
Moura

2017
Aurier
Llorente
Foyth
Sanchez

2016
Sissoko
N'Koudu
Janssen
Wanyama

2015
Son
N'Joe
Alderweireld
Wimmer
Trippier
Alli

2014
Stambouli
Fazio
Yedlin
Dier
Davies
Vorm
 
He's done a great job at Spurs on a relative shoestring budget compared to other big teams. His transfers have been a bit iffy though, more miss than hit in my opinion. It's time to move on but just because he's struggling nowadays, it doesnt change the fact he's visibly a MUCH better manager than Ole Gunnar Solksjaer. His struggles at present don't make our manager any better than he is showing to be.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Their points total in 2016-17 would have been good enough to win the league in most seasons until Pep arrived at City and its 16 points higher than they ever managed in the premier league era, that's a notable improvement.

Being in the top 4 now is a completely different dogfight from doing it under Harry or Sherwood so just staying there while selling their best player from that era in Bale is a tough proposition for a club like Spurs. Making it to the champions league final is also no small thing for them especially with the performances against City in the knock out rounds and the high pressure point they secured at Nou camp. The Spurs before Pochettino couldn't even dream of being at that level.
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Come on. That's a massively flawed way of looking at it. You're taking the context of the league and opponent away. Those anomalies are everywhere.

The same could be said about Spurs' 2nd place finish. The only reason they achieved that was because the majority of their opposition were in a large period of transition. Take that away and the average finish is 4th, so although the opposition has improved considerably in that time, so has the players available to the Spurs manager. As I said, it's about par.

They did well. Huge dollop of luck involved in their run to the final but they got there so credit where credit is due.
 
CM10 said:
I don't actually know whether it's him or Levy signing the players, either way I don't think the signings have been a strong point for them. I do think Poch's stock has fallen a bit in the last 12 months but you can't deny the progress he's made with that Spurs team since his appointment.

I disagree re Mourinho. He's had one top 4 finish in his last four domestic seasons and was sacked in two of them. He'd have been too busy whinging about no signings last season to get a top 4 finish with that Spurs team last season, for starters.
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You also can't deny the squad wasn't as strong as the one Poch has. If he has that squad, he certainly isn't doing any worse than Poch, he'd have probably picked up some silverware along the way too.
 
AVB made some really good ones in Eriksen Lloris Vertonghen. He also brought Kevin De Bruyne Courtois Cahill to Chelsea.

I like some of Poch's signings as well but this thing with Kane, he might've been lucky to get him but if Poch is at a top club they can buy such a player for him as well as other good upcoming players he can work with like he did with Eriksen and co. A big club has the ability to replace them when things get stale so I think Poch can be a success if he moves to a bigger one.
 
charlenefan said:
What do people think of the signings he's made at Spurs?

2019
NDombele
Lo Celso
Sessegnon

2018
Moura

2017
Aurier
Llorente
Foyth
Sanchez

2016
Sissoko
N'Koudu
Janssen
Wanyama

2015
N'Joe
Alderweireld
Wimmer
Alli

2014
Stambouli
Fazio
Yedlin
Dier
Davies
Vorm
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The bolded are definaltey good purchases, and have done well for spurs.
 
Judas said:
Past his best? Are you trying to be ironic or something? Are managers shelf life just doing a good job at one or two clubs now and they're finished?
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balaks said:
Crazy isn't it - he is one of the most promising young managers on the planet but he is now 'past his best' because of a period of poor form.
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Just a subtle difference is i actually said we'll get him past his best. As opposed to their obligatory early cup exit meaning he's past his best
 
Tom Cato said:
Wait, you think he just show up for work and there's a new player there he didn't know they were signing?
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I don't think he goes to Levy and says I want these players in this window. He more or less works with what he is given.
 
MancFanFromManc said:
Everyone since Fergie hasn't been able to handle Man United. Maybe its become too big a job for one man. What do we think about teaming Poch with Ole as a two man team ??
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Only way that works is if Ole is moved upstairs (i.e. Technical Director role)
 
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