Asian Cup is played over the winter.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
Don't want he is a loser and a bottler
Thanks
I am happy with either Porch or Ole, I think they will do a similar job.
It's not really the same thing, is it? In answer to your question, disappointed would be the most likely reaction to such a run of defeats. But in truth no one could have predicted the impact Ole has had since taking charge, 6 straight victories is a dream start (obviously this includes the battering of Spurs next week).
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less for Poch's tactical decisions, I was merely wondering how he would have 'spun' the story in the event that Kane picked up an injury. Nothing more than that.
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Again your missing the point, managers don’t make choices off the bat, he would have evaluated the how the match was going and if the sting was out of it, which it clearly was. Of course there was a chance of injury but it was slim, how he would have spun it? Who knows, and as it stands it doesn’t really matter.
I'm not entirely convinced by Pochetino.
Off the football pitch, everything that is to be commended about Spurs doesn't seem to have anything to do with him.
Off the football pitch, everything that is to be commended about Spurs doesn't seem to have anything to do with him.
He isn't scoring any of the goals, no. Other than that, I'm not sure what you mean?
How about Poch with Ole staying on as #2? 
STOP IT WITH THISHow about Poch with Ole staying on as #2?
Think he's suggesting that Spurs had identified targets and changed the structure of the way the club was run before Pochettino or in-conjunction with his appointment. You could even argue that has he actually signed anyone? Or is it the work of the Spurs scouting team and a frugal Daniel Levy? Has he been forced to played youth players because Levy refused to spend?
I agree with those notions and I still think he has a lot to prove before he's allowed a seat at the elite table.
I could've sworn his post said "on the pitch" before
I'm not 100% sold on him either. I think he's also very lucky that one of England's best strikers of the last 50 years happened to break through into the first team at a time which coincided with him taking over. That surely makes the job a lot easier. 'Arry had to make do with Crouchy up front when he was there!
Agreed. Take Kane out of the side and they'd be shopping around Europe for B list strikers like Soldado again. They got lucky with him for sure.I could've sworn his post said "on the pitch" before
I'm not 100% sold on him either. I think he's also very lucky that one of England's best strikers of the last 50 years happened to break through into the first team at a time which coincided with him taking over. That surely makes the job a lot easier. 'Arry had to make do with Crouchy up front when he was there!
Poch has had the same back room staff since Espanyol, very close friends, IF he goes they will follow him.
I could've sworn his post said "on the pitch" before
I'm not 100% sold on him either. I think he's also very lucky that one of England's best strikers of the last 50 years happened to break through into the first team at a time which coincided with him taking over. That surely makes the job a lot easier. 'Arry had to make do with Crouchy up front when he was there!
I think that’s a little harsh, did Fergie just get lucky with having the players United produced Poch and Tottenham have coped when Harry has been out. Poor Harry had a break through Bale, Modric and VDV.
Brilliant, just what we need. Let's make United more like Espanyol/Southampton/Spurs. Wreaks of Moyes sacking everyone and bringing Everton with him.
Well, in a word, yes. Those players were identified by the youth recruitment team and developed by them also, probably before Fergie was ever at the club. Fergie saw something in them and threw them into the team, as he said so himself, the youth team is your safety net as a manager. Play and develop youth players and you'll always have a job at United.
Same deal for Pep at Barcelona. He got gifted probably the best player ever. History writes itself when you get given players like that.
Something we can all agree on!I think you should stick with Ole obviously
Sir Alex rebuilt the youth side didn't he really? The main lads that came through, weren't to compliment. That summer we Sold Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis. So it's not the same.
It doesn't because Moyes is a very average manager whereas Pochettino is a very good one. Also, Pochettino would be replacing a backroom staff which has led you to very little success, whereas Moyes was replacing staff who had won the premier league.
Most managers will want to bring their people with them to a club.
Not true. We've currently got Solskjaer, Phelan and Carrick as coaches who have all overseen one of our most prestigious periods as a club. McKenna who used to coach at Spurs and the rest are either Mourinho's men who still have jobs until the end of the season or staff that was appointed after Jose got the chop.
We've had Everton backroom staff, Dutch NT backroom staff, Jose's backroom staff and now we've finally gone back to having United backroom staff. What we don't need next is Tottenham backroom staff, it just won't work.
Yeah, as players they were around during a prestigious period (aside from Phelan). That doesn't mean they're going to be world class coaching staff.
If you don't want Spurs backroom staff, then don't go for Pochettino.
I think Fergie can take more credit for producing the class of 92 than Poch can for Harry Kane tbf. Spurs had lacked a decent striker for years, but as soon as Poch walks in the door, Kane rolls off the production line with 30-40 goals a season. It's fortunate timing at the very least.
Not that it should count against him, I'm just saying if he'd managed Spurs 5 years earlier, would he have Spurs where they are based on his managerial talent alone? He surely couldn't have convinced a player of Kane's ability to sign for Spurs.
They know what they're doing because they know the club inside out. Imagine Pochettino left and you signed Eddie Howe, he brings in all his backroom staff and all of a sudden it starts to feel a little bit like Bournemouth have arrived, mostly because they don't understand what it means to manage Tottenham. This might be difficult for you to comprehend but United have a culture and heritage that people buy into before they even kick a ball, I'm not trying to be patronising here, honestly. If they turn up to training one day and have to watch video's of Harry Kane's hold up play or Trippier's defensive work, someone's going to get upset, and rightly so.
All our previous managers have failed because they couldn't grasp the size of Manchester United, the club was too big for them, even Jose. You don't get to bring your staff here and change the identity, you don't get to play defensive football, the club won't bend to your will or desires, it's bigger than everyone. If Pochettino comes in, he has to understand this otherwise he's doomed from day one.
Uh, I'd have no issue with it. Managers bring their backroom staff when they move clubs. Pochettino brought his and has turned us in to one of the most consistent teams in the entire league over the last few seasons. If we were to bring in somebody like Howe, I would absolutely be ok with him moving staff over who he felt would help him assert his identity on to the team. If we've hired Howe we trust that he knows what it means to 'manage Tottenham' so you put faith in him. The problem was you put faith in the wrong managers.
It's not difficult for me to comprehend that you're trying to cling on to a glorious past, it doesn't guarantee success though. Just because previously successful players like Carrick are still at the club doesn't mean you'll keep up the 'culture' of winning trophies. If any striker at your club is so arrogant they won't try and learn from the best striker in the world, then the issue lies with them and not the coaching staff. Moyes tried to tell league winners who were some of the best in their position to learn from Jagielka, it's different.
Your other managers failed because Moyes is an average manager, LVG was outdated and Mourinho did his usual meltdown after a relatively successful spell, not because they brought their own backroom staff which happens at pretty much every other club in the world. It's not asking the club to 'bend to your wishes' if the club believe you should be manager then you should be allowed to bring in the people you want to work around you, just like managers go out and sign new players.
You've got too much of a fixation on nostalgia/the coaching staff being reminiscent of the Fergie era.
That's exactly my point. You don't have an issue with it because you don't have a heritage as a club, United do. I'm talking back to the days of Matt Busby, not just Fergie. A manager isn't allowed to come here and assert his identity on the team, we already have one.
It's about mentality, which is why it's good to have previous players as coaches at the club, they understand the DNA of the club and instil it in others. It's not about comparing players to players at other clubs, the point is that United's players should be learning how to improve to stay in the team, not to be more like a player from another club. It's the elite attitude and way of thinking that sets the bar at United, which is why ex players are so valuable as coaches. You are compared to whether or not you're good enough to play for the club and its standards, nothing else. Pochettino might not grasp that, that's my point.
Look at teams like Barcelona and Bayern, they maintain their status by employing previous players in all departments of the club. They keep the DNA of what it means to play for the club, they don't sack all their coaching staff when they appoint a new manager, they are more than a club. United fall into this bracket except we've been doing things the way any other team goes about changing manager. I'm not saying all coaching appointments should be vetoed, but I am saying that any new manager coming in should get his own assistant and maybe one more, it can't be wholesale.
There is a reason every major institute in the world promote from within their own company.
Oh you condescending little... utter bollocks by the way. We have a lot of heritage as a club.
I mean, there clearly was a large element of luck involved, for all of these managers. It isn't like Guardiola has brought through a player like Messi at any subsequent club or Ferguson had another period at his 27! years at the club with even similar output in terms of youth players. I guess you had Fletcher, Evans, Brown, O'Shea, Gibson, Shawcross? None of them really come close to Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Neville etc. And in 5 years, he's brought through a lot of youth but obviously nobody of the same talent as Kane.
In 2009, we had Bale and Modric (and King, who managed 21 league matches) and we finished 4th. We also spent a bit more money back then than we do now, considering the stadium. I think Poch would have been just fine tbh.
It's true, and that's why I wouldn't hold it against him since where do you draw the line? You could say that with any manager, at any club. Apart from perhaps City right now
I usually don't like these arguments, it's similar to "oh well if United didn't have De Gea in goal..." Yeah, well, we do. That's what he's there for. So I'm not holding it against him as a manager, but it's certainly made life easier than if he had to go shopping. Oh man, what? God, go read the history of our football club. The sport doesn't only revolve around the few clubs who have won lots of titles, we have loads of heritage.A manager isn't allowed to assert the identity? Good luck with that, honestly. If you're not going to permit managers to assert his own style of football on to the football club you're doomed. You aren't the same club you were under Fergie, he was the best manager of all time but he's gone and United have to adapt to the times, not the other way around. If you're going to be so stubborn as to not allow managers to bring their own people in who they trust and have worked alongside, then have fun for the future. Most of the top managers will absolutely not want to move to a club without bringing people with them.
Me personally I'm more of the 'go with the best man for the job' rather than just randomly hiring/selecting people on vague ideas of 'they get the club because they played for us'. AVB didn't get the club and was sacked, Pochettino did and he remained here, but he still brought his own people with him. He just understood that you had to be positive on the pitch, attack, take risks. It's not about having only ex-United staff around. Also, loads of players try and improve their game by watching elite level players at other clubs, most top footballers have a player they looked up to as they progressed.
Barcelona absolutely have compromised on their ideals in recent years, and will do so even more when Messi retires. Bayern too if they lose the league this season. They will maintain some vague ideas about attacking, brave football etc but will bend the rules where necessary. Also, I'm pretty sure what you have just said is false, I remember Ancelotti bringing coaching staff to Bayern. Not sure about this season or Barcelona, but if either of them go for a top manager they will definitely want to bring in their own people.
Promoting from within is a good idea, tying a managers hands behind his back by telling him 'no, you can't bring in some of your own people' is not. Pochettino has a philosophy and his coaching staff understand that, if United don't believe in that philosophy then they should not target him as a manager. If they truly want to only keep a United identity blah blah blah, then Ole should be appointed permanent manager and be done with it.
The problem with Poch is that he hasn’t won anything. Even if we were playing some top stuff the fans would question that every time we were knocked out of a competition or fell behind in the league. We’re a club who were spoilt by ridiculous levels of success and stupidly good football and many still deep down expect such standards despite a few years of shite.
The fact is Spurs have been quality for a while now and should have won something but haven’t. Despite the fact I want him and can get past this, a manager should really have a trophy on his CV before getting the Man United job.
The fact is Spurs have been quality for a while now and should have won something but haven’t. Despite the fact I want him and can get past this, a manager should really have a trophy on his CV before getting the Man United job.
It's clearly too early to decided this one way or the other.
If you're Woody and are aware that the next fixture is Spurs v United, 1/13, you're going to take a hard look at how that match turns out before taking the next stage in your evaluation as to whether or not to thank Ole for his services and bring in, should he be interested, Pochettino.
This is a club that beat us 0-3 at Old Trafford when Mourinho was at the helm. If, somehow, Ole manages to bag a 0-3 win -- or a win of any kind -- over Pochettino the pro-Pochettino case isn't quite as straightforward as seemed six weeks ago.
Or maybe in the end we go with Marco Rose. After all, Pochettino hasn't won anything yet with a pretty talented squad. And of course questions can be asked of Ole's credentials to manage this club in the long run, after the honeymoon is over. I'm not suggesting I'm on board with Rose, but if we're not afraid to take a risk on a manager who's proven himself at lower levels he's definitely a short-lister.
If you're Woody and are aware that the next fixture is Spurs v United, 1/13, you're going to take a hard look at how that match turns out before taking the next stage in your evaluation as to whether or not to thank Ole for his services and bring in, should he be interested, Pochettino.
This is a club that beat us 0-3 at Old Trafford when Mourinho was at the helm. If, somehow, Ole manages to bag a 0-3 win -- or a win of any kind -- over Pochettino the pro-Pochettino case isn't quite as straightforward as seemed six weeks ago.
Or maybe in the end we go with Marco Rose. After all, Pochettino hasn't won anything yet with a pretty talented squad. And of course questions can be asked of Ole's credentials to manage this club in the long run, after the honeymoon is over. I'm not suggesting I'm on board with Rose, but if we're not afraid to take a risk on a manager who's proven himself at lower levels he's definitely a short-lister.
Said in a previous post that I was trying not to be patronising but please do go on and tell me about your heritage. What does it mean to be a Spurs player? What does a player coming to Tottenham Hotspur know about the club before they arrive? What is your expected brand of football? What is the expected mentality of your players?
Think he just signed a pre contract with hoffenheim
Edit: Can’t for the life of me find where I saw that, I wouldn’t be surprised though.
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You've basically repeated everything I've said as if you've presumed everything I said was the most extreme version of what it could be interpreted as.
A manager isn't allowed to assert the identity? Good luck with that, honestly. If you're not going to permit managers to assert his own style of football on to the football club you're doomed. You aren't the same club you were under Fergie, he was the best manager of all time but he's gone and United have to adapt to the times, not the other way around. If you're going to be so stubborn as to not allow managers to bring their own people in who they trust and have worked alongside, then have fun for the future. Most of the top managers will absolutely not want to move to a club without bringing people with them.
Me personally I'm more of the 'go with the best man for the job' rather than just randomly hiring/selecting people on vague ideas of 'they get the club because they played for us'. AVB didn't get the club and was sacked, Pochettino did and he remained here, but he still brought his own people with him. He just understood that you had to be positive on the pitch, attack, take risks. It's not about having only ex-United staff around. Also, loads of players try and improve their game by watching elite level players at other clubs, most top footballers have a player they looked up to as they progressed.
Barcelona absolutely have compromised on their ideals in recent years, and will do so even more when Messi retires. Bayern too if they lose the league this season. They will maintain some vague ideas about attacking, brave football etc but will bend the rules where necessary. Also, I'm pretty sure what you have just said is false, I remember Ancelotti bringing coaching staff to Bayern. Not sure about this season or Barcelona, but if either of them go for a top manager they will definitely want to bring in their own people.
Promoting from within is a good idea, tying a managers hands behind his back by telling him 'no, you can't bring in some of your own people' is not. Pochettino has a philosophy and his coaching staff understand that, if United don't believe in that philosophy then they should not target him as a manager. If they truly want to only keep a United identity blah blah blah, then Ole should be appointed permanent manager and be done with it.
I'd also love to hear about the 'Tottenham way' if any Spurs fans would care to educate me on what they believe someone from Papa New Guinea would think Tottenham as a football club stood for. Of course, we'll forget the winning of titles and trophies you pointed out.
In all seriousness, I think you'll find your club is mostly known for having Jewish connections, that's about it.
We have the greatest cheese room of all time. The people of Port Moresby will be lining up to taste its wares soon enough.
I don't get what you're trying to say then. All I have said is that if Pochettino went to United, he would want to bring his own staff to the club, which United would have to let him do if they wanted him to be manager. If you buy in to a managers philosophy then you allow him control over the staff. Top managers always want to bring their own people with them.
Oh man, a fan from Papa New Guinea wouldn't know what we stand for? Devastated. I'm not really arsed what people who only care about the top 5 clubs in world football think about our identity, the people at the heart of the club and the fans absolutely do, and that's reflected in how we're doing at the moment. Pochettino has been a great representation of that whilst bringing in his own staff and having a good deal of control, because whilst nobody is bigger than the club the manager absolutely does need to be able to stamp his authority on the playing staff. Ferguson exercised an enormous amount of authority over United as a club.
I'm not going to sit here and lecture you about Tottenham's history, this isn't the thread for that, it's about Pochettino as a manager and his suitability for United. If you want to learn about us then go use google and you'll find plenty.
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Longest bar in the UK too, history making.