Yes I think you are right - so my first pick is Thuram. Over to Snow ...
70s Retro Football Fantasy Championship - DRAFT THREAD
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Yes I think you are right - so my first pick is Thuram. Over to Snow ...
I've followed Verón since his early pre-European days and after. He is quite capable of pressing in a disciplined way, not a great imposing tackle on him which is surprising for a guy his size., but all in all usually is at his best when devoid of those duties. He is the that needs time and space when on the ball, if you are pressing all the time then when your team recovers the ball you are bound to have the former pressee becoming a pressor (made up words, you get the idea). That is, he is not as effective a playmaker when required to chip in with pressing, but can do it. He definitely has a lot more workrate on him than Riquelme (not that it requires much!).
I do tend to agree with your assessment though: next game you'll probably still play Tacchinardi and the more you progress the more you will want midfielders who make a real contribution. I'm not sure you will ever play him to be honest.
Have to disagree - imo players with vision, technique and skill like Veron are the ones that cope best with limitations in time and space. See Scholes, Xavi, Silva etc - their awareness, touch, control and passing creates time and space for themselves and their teams.
Now with Guardiola pinging balls out wide to the best pair of overlapping full-backs in the game, the team looks to have some real shape.
That's where Verón differs from those three, he is not as much a master of control and creating space, more a master of exploiting it. Very fine line, but I don't see him as a Scholes/Xavi type.
The more options Guardiola has the more important it is to protect him and let him do his work, that's where I favour Cocu over Nedved as a replacement for Baggio.
I'd say Dan's fullbacks are at least as good, if not better.
You cant possibly favour Serginho over Roberto Carlos?!
Cafu vs Thuram is not as clear cut and probably goes down to personal preference
With the exception of Nesta, Thuram is the best defender in the draft. Obviously not as exciting as the Brazilians going forward, his overall package is nevertheless a good couple of levels better than Serginho's.
In terms of overlapping full backs Cafu is definitely better. But Carlos is of course better than Serginho. No contest.
My pick is determined heavily about how people view Lampard in a three man midfield next to Petit. He use to play next to him at first at Chelsea in a two man midfield but that wasn't in his primer. He's of course played there with England as well but not next to a Petit type.
People view Neville as my weak link. Frings did of course play there at times with Germany but it's not his preferred position. I'd trust Neville more with a tricky winger since he's shown he can do it in his old age vs Bale for instance.
Then there's Kuffour. He could play at right back as well if I choose to bring in a defender.
It's Cocu, Nedved or Cannavaro for me. It's just hard to pass up Nedved. With him my front four would be the best in the game I reckon.
People view Neville as my weak link. Frings did of course play there at times with Germany but it's not his preferred position. I'd trust Neville more with a tricky winger since he's shown he can do it in his old age vs Bale for instance.
Then there's Kuffour. He could play at right back as well if I choose to bring in a defender.
It's Cocu, Nedved or Cannavaro for me. It's just hard to pass up Nedved. With him my front four would be the best in the game I reckon.
Going back to your game against Rood, I kept banging on about not having any worries as far as goalscoring potential but not seeing how you would control the game or run it at a more patient tempo. Giggs and Figo in their primes + Lampard was very direct/gung ho and your central midfielders would be dragged along leaving space for Rivaldo between them and the backline or space for Owen behind your backline.
For all his goals, there's a reason the Lampard-Gerrard midfield never worked for England: they can't control games. With Nedved there instead of Lampard you lose Lampard's jammy deflected goals and penos but you gain in control of the situation.
No brainer to me really.
Then Rood gets Cocu and you take Cannavaro. If you are overly worried about Neville you can play Kuffour there. You would have been better off with Thuram as well, but there's only one in the game!
For tomorrow's game:
Dan's (mostly) Brazilian Army
Julio Cesar - Brazil's number 1 and over 200 caps for Inter. Won the treble with Inter in 2010 and was named UEFA Goalkeeper of the year
Cafu (c) - World cup winning captain - One of, if not the best right full back of his generation. Won 2 Copa America's, 2 World Cups along with a host of other club competitions; including the Champions League, 1 Club world cup, Serie A titles with Roma and AC.
Lucio - World cup winner and one of the best centre backs of the 2000s. On top of the Wolrd Cup, has won the lot at club level - also part of Inter's treble winning side in 2010. Before his time at Inter, Lucio was at the heart of Bayern Munich's defense who dominated the German League in the mid 2000s, collecting 3 Bundesliga titles.
Juan - Underrated, solid defender who has played with Lucio for Brazil. Juan is the 20th most capped Brazilian player of all time, anyone with that record for a team like Brazil has had an impressive career.
Serginho - one of the finest left sided players in the draft. Solid at the back but also brilliant going forward. Him and Cafu on the flanks, I think I have one of the strongest set of full backs in the draft. I was gutted when he was picked before me in the draft, a massive improvement over Sylvinho
Gilberto Silva - Solid, disciplined defensive midfielder who will keep things ticking and cover for Sylvinho and Cafu when they move forward. An integral part of both Brazil's World Cup 2002 winning team and Arsenal's "invincibles".
Claude Makelele - An exception to my all Brazilian team but a worthy exception. There was nobody better than him in the role he played, not many players have a position on the football pitch named after them. Influential in the dominant Real Madrid and Chelsea teams of the 2000s.
Juninho Paulista - Adding flair and creativity to the midfield is "Little" Juninho. World Cup winner in 2002.
Juninho Pernambucano - Will be remembered for his deadly freekicks. Very tidy on the ball and will link the midfield and attacking play well. Integral part of the dominant Lyon side who won 7 consecutive French titles between 2002-2008. Picked up 40 international caps for Brazil
Edmundo - had a reputation for being a bit of a nutter. But there was no doubting his talent. Scorer of one of the best goals I've seen scored against United Mundial FIFA 2000: Vasco 3 X 1 Manchester - Golaço de Edmundo - YouTube .10 goals in 39 caps for Brazil - the prospect of a Edmundo - Ronaldo partnership is exciting
Ronaldo - the best striker of his generation. A stunning 247 goals in 343 starts at club level, paired with 62 in 98 for Brazil. 2 time Ballon D'or winner, guided Brazil to World Cup glory in 2002.
Sub - Denilson - another World Cup winner. Famous for his trickery and step overs. If a bit of magic is needed from the bench, he is capable.
Sylvinho - Good servant for Arsenal, and part of Barcelona's 2006 and 2009 Champions League winning team. Also won a few La Liga titles and is capable of getting forward as well as putting in a defensive shift
Edu - Another important player of Arsenal's unbeaten side in 2004. 2 Premiership medals and 2 FA Cups was followed by a successful stint at Valencia where he won the Copa del Rey in 2008. Another World Champion as he was part of the Cornithians side to pick of the FIFA Club World Championship in 2000
I have gone for a strong core to the team. Julio Cesar, Lucio, Gilberto Silva, Makelele, Ronaldo - all top players who, in their prime, were amongst the best around.
I have replaced Edu with Makelele in the starting lineup to match the traditional Brazilian tactic of 2 defensive midfielders, to allow the rest of the team to attack when they need to.
The width will be provided by Cafu, arguably the best right back of his generation, and on the other side Serginho. When either of these 2 go forward I have a well disciplined, World Cup winning defensive midfielder in Gilberto and the best defensive midfielder in the draft to cover for them.
Attacking-wise, the creativity of the two Juninhos and Edmundo will be able to create chances, and then I have the best striker of this generation to score the goals for me in Ronaldo.
Flair is clearly not going to be lacking in a Brazilian team but this group of players also have the steel to go with that. The addition of Makelele to the mix has strengthened the middle of the park and I don't fancy creative midfielders to get much joy out of him and Silva.
7 World Cup medals between them, along with a couple of Wolrd Club Championships and Champions Leagues. They also boast league titles from Greece, Brazil, England, Spain, Italy, France and Germany.
Dan's (mostly) Brazilian Army
Julio Cesar - Brazil's number 1 and over 200 caps for Inter. Won the treble with Inter in 2010 and was named UEFA Goalkeeper of the year
Cafu (c) - World cup winning captain - One of, if not the best right full back of his generation. Won 2 Copa America's, 2 World Cups along with a host of other club competitions; including the Champions League, 1 Club world cup, Serie A titles with Roma and AC.
Lucio - World cup winner and one of the best centre backs of the 2000s. On top of the Wolrd Cup, has won the lot at club level - also part of Inter's treble winning side in 2010. Before his time at Inter, Lucio was at the heart of Bayern Munich's defense who dominated the German League in the mid 2000s, collecting 3 Bundesliga titles.
Juan - Underrated, solid defender who has played with Lucio for Brazil. Juan is the 20th most capped Brazilian player of all time, anyone with that record for a team like Brazil has had an impressive career.
Serginho - one of the finest left sided players in the draft. Solid at the back but also brilliant going forward. Him and Cafu on the flanks, I think I have one of the strongest set of full backs in the draft. I was gutted when he was picked before me in the draft, a massive improvement over Sylvinho
Gilberto Silva - Solid, disciplined defensive midfielder who will keep things ticking and cover for Sylvinho and Cafu when they move forward. An integral part of both Brazil's World Cup 2002 winning team and Arsenal's "invincibles".
Claude Makelele - An exception to my all Brazilian team but a worthy exception. There was nobody better than him in the role he played, not many players have a position on the football pitch named after them. Influential in the dominant Real Madrid and Chelsea teams of the 2000s.
Juninho Paulista - Adding flair and creativity to the midfield is "Little" Juninho. World Cup winner in 2002.
Juninho Pernambucano - Will be remembered for his deadly freekicks. Very tidy on the ball and will link the midfield and attacking play well. Integral part of the dominant Lyon side who won 7 consecutive French titles between 2002-2008. Picked up 40 international caps for Brazil
Edmundo - had a reputation for being a bit of a nutter. But there was no doubting his talent. Scorer of one of the best goals I've seen scored against United Mundial FIFA 2000: Vasco 3 X 1 Manchester - Golaço de Edmundo - YouTube .10 goals in 39 caps for Brazil - the prospect of a Edmundo - Ronaldo partnership is exciting
Ronaldo - the best striker of his generation. A stunning 247 goals in 343 starts at club level, paired with 62 in 98 for Brazil. 2 time Ballon D'or winner, guided Brazil to World Cup glory in 2002.
Sub - Denilson - another World Cup winner. Famous for his trickery and step overs. If a bit of magic is needed from the bench, he is capable.
Sylvinho - Good servant for Arsenal, and part of Barcelona's 2006 and 2009 Champions League winning team. Also won a few La Liga titles and is capable of getting forward as well as putting in a defensive shift
Edu - Another important player of Arsenal's unbeaten side in 2004. 2 Premiership medals and 2 FA Cups was followed by a successful stint at Valencia where he won the Copa del Rey in 2008. Another World Champion as he was part of the Cornithians side to pick of the FIFA Club World Championship in 2000
I have gone for a strong core to the team. Julio Cesar, Lucio, Gilberto Silva, Makelele, Ronaldo - all top players who, in their prime, were amongst the best around.
I have replaced Edu with Makelele in the starting lineup to match the traditional Brazilian tactic of 2 defensive midfielders, to allow the rest of the team to attack when they need to.
The width will be provided by Cafu, arguably the best right back of his generation, and on the other side Serginho. When either of these 2 go forward I have a well disciplined, World Cup winning defensive midfielder in Gilberto and the best defensive midfielder in the draft to cover for them.
Attacking-wise, the creativity of the two Juninhos and Edmundo will be able to create chances, and then I have the best striker of this generation to score the goals for me in Ronaldo.
Flair is clearly not going to be lacking in a Brazilian team but this group of players also have the steel to go with that. The addition of Makelele to the mix has strengthened the middle of the park and I don't fancy creative midfielders to get much joy out of him and Silva.
7 World Cup medals between them, along with a couple of Wolrd Club Championships and Champions Leagues. They also boast league titles from Greece, Brazil, England, Spain, Italy, France and Germany.
You don't have any top defenders, Cannavaro just seems an absolute must. And if you leave him to the next round it would be a big surprise if Rood didn't pick him up I think. Your centre backs are very good but a way below the best. I'd definitely consider Kuffour as a right back and honestly in my view Neville's a better defender than Heinze, so if I were you I'd move him to left back. Then just pick either Cocu or Nedved after, Lampard at centre mid is no longer a great midfielder but he's not a weak link so having Nedved in there could certainly work although a bit of midfield dominance with Cocu would be useful. I think Frings is good and fits there so if I were building a proper team I'd start him ahead of Lampard but obviously Fat Frank's reputation matters more here.
Good call that one.
Thuram would have been my first choice but he got picked. I honestly don't feel I need a midfielder. It's just greed to want Nedved. I'd be like Milan with their striker purchases getting him.
I'm picking Cannavaro. Your turn Rood.
I'm picking Cannavaro. Your turn Rood.
Cant decide which one, starting to think this one is better and more matched to the 4-2-2-2 Brazil play, what do we think?
I don't think you need a midfielder either but the only players in your team with a bit of vision are the wide players, Manchester United always had Paul Scholes and his partner could pick out a pass better than any of your midfielders. It's very functional. I just don't think Lampard's picking up as many votes as you think, whereas it was impossible not to love Nedved.
I definitely prefer the 4222 Dan.
I definitely prefer the 4222 Dan.
4-2-2-2 Dan. It's the Brazil way.
I think that's near enough the best formation (the second one) you could have deployed with what's available to you.
Cheers guys, gone with 4222
Ok so its basically Nedved or Cocu for me - even though you say you dont need a midfielder, I assume you will take whichever I dont - although there is still Buffon who is the stand out keeper of this draft
Nedved has the Galactico star quality so is surely a vote winner, but Cocu probably gives a better balance my team - decisions, decisions ...
I'm still not sure myself Rood. You'll probably decide it for me.
Deco >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cocu bro. I'm even willing to let him go to you for a measly fiver.
Completely different player.
I can see Rood's dilemma. Baffled by Snow's. Mate, everyone is telling you: you have the best wingers, give them someone to play with in the middle!
There's a reason why Nedved was the 10th pick and Lampard the 48th (and 48th because you picked him, otherwise he may have been hanging around longer).
Ive decided that I can't turn down the opportunity to get Nedved - was always a huge fans of his and he gives me a 3rd Ballon D'or in my team and Im a proper muppet for these individual honours!
Yeah in the sense he can do everything he does and more.
Yours for a fiver Rood la.
Well cheers for the generous offer and TBF Deco was a beast in his prime but I just dont need that type of player - on the otherhand he might actually suit Snow's team more than Cocu as he already has Petit doing that.
First round graveyard status. Those who very easily could be in the second round in bold (considering pool for position). The Religion, Ralaks and Crustanoid probably see the most quality exiting the competition.
PUYOL
RUI COSTA
VAN BOMMEL
TREZEGUET
PERUZZI
AMBROSINI
ORTEGA
SALAS
CONTRA
CRESPO
SOLSKJAER
G. NEVILLE
GROSSO
PANUCCI
GUTI
MELLBERG
VERON
AIMAR
CLAUDIO LOPEZ
MAKAAY
GAMARRA
BABBEL
ZIEGE
NAYBET
COUPET
F. DE BOER
SCHOLL
JEREMIES
TOLDO
KLOSE
GIULY
PESSOTTO
TORRICELLI
KILY GONZALEZ
COCU?
BARAJA
INZAGHI
MARCHENA
VAN BRONCKHORST
SALIHAMIDZIC
SOLARI
FERREIRA
HANS-JÖRG BUTT
TOTTI?
DECO?
BUFFON?
RAFAEL MARQUEZ
SENNA
SALGADO
HARRY KEWELL
KALADZE
ELBER
ETXEBERRIA
RAÚL
DEL PIERO
VAN NISTELROOY
ALBERTINI
CAMORANESI
EMERSON
SIMIC
IULIANO
ARCE
ABBIATTI
DELVECCHIO
DROGBA
STANKOVIC
W.SAMUEL
HELGUERA
HASSELBAINK
REIZIGER
SORIN
CUDICINI
GUDJOHNSEN
BELLETTI
PUYOL
RUI COSTA
VAN BOMMEL
TREZEGUET
PERUZZI
AMBROSINI
ORTEGA
SALAS
CONTRA
CRESPO
SOLSKJAER
G. NEVILLE
GROSSO
PANUCCI
GUTI
MELLBERG
VERON
AIMAR
CLAUDIO LOPEZ
MAKAAY
GAMARRA
BABBEL
ZIEGE
NAYBET
COUPET
F. DE BOER
SCHOLL
JEREMIES
TOLDO
KLOSE
GIULY
PESSOTTO
TORRICELLI
KILY GONZALEZ
COCU?
BARAJA
INZAGHI
MARCHENA
VAN BRONCKHORST
SALIHAMIDZIC
SOLARI
FERREIRA
HANS-JÖRG BUTT
TOTTI?
DECO?
BUFFON?
RAFAEL MARQUEZ
SENNA
SALGADO
HARRY KEWELL
KALADZE
ELBER
ETXEBERRIA
RAÚL
DEL PIERO
VAN NISTELROOY
ALBERTINI
CAMORANESI
EMERSON
SIMIC
IULIANO
ARCE
ABBIATTI
DELVECCHIO
DROGBA
STANKOVIC
W.SAMUEL
HELGUERA
HASSELBAINK
REIZIGER
SORIN
CUDICINI
GUDJOHNSEN
BELLETTI
fecking hell, the real shame is that we get to pick only one player in teams exiting from now on. If anyone beats you they'll have a really tough time deciding!
Everyone? Just you mate. Lampard is a world class player. I'm pretty short on world class in defense. It's been my weakest part in this competition yet here I am.
Rood said it himself. He's a sucker for Ballon d'Or. Cannavaro was a priority. He might as well have taken him and Thuram for all I know. You aren't picking his team for him.
My team against kps88
My only lingering doubt is whether to swap Luis Enrique and Seedorf there.
i.e. Luis Enrique playing box-to-box on that left side and onto Scholes or on the right side to help with Pires. My inclination is I could still expect Seedorf to track back and I have Zanetti on that side so the right man on Scholes is much more critical.
Thoughts?
My only lingering doubt is whether to swap Luis Enrique and Seedorf there.
i.e. Luis Enrique playing box-to-box on that left side and onto Scholes or on the right side to help with Pires. My inclination is I could still expect Seedorf to track back and I have Zanetti on that side so the right man on Scholes is much more critical.
Thoughts?
Forlan on the left?
I don't understand Seedorf being out right at all. Not when you have Luis Enrique there in the team.
Not just me, Brwned told you as much. I understand your concern with shoring up your defence and Cannavaro goes a long way in doing that (no way Rood would have gone into the next round with Baggio).
You are here because you have smashing wingers, Kluivert and yes, Lampard arriving late. It's a great setup to try outscore the opposition, but not to control a game. You don't have the central midfielder that makes you tick, not one worthy of those wingers.
You are going to be facing Vieira, Mendieta and Riquelme, you will get blown out of the water with Petit, Frings and Lampard.
Anyway, I'm not here to get you worked up. I've made the same argument before trying to be constructive and you continue rejecting it without much consideration so I may as well leave you alone.
Lumpard > Riquelme, Deco > Mendieta and Vieira < Petit
Snow, Decos yours for a fiver. You got that midfield won then, played a blinder.
Snow, Decos yours for a fiver. You got that midfield won then, played a blinder.
Not precisely as a winger, certainly not going to the byline, but I want him to operate on that flank and help keep Ferrer back and track back, then cut inside when in possession.
Not too dissimilar to what SAF has done sending Rooney to the left before (with Ronaldo in his pomp). It felt like a waste of Wayne's talents but served an important tactical purpose. Not sure how best to depict that though. He is definitely not playing as a striker.
It is the one that could be massively misinterpreted. Any ideas? Maybe pull him in a bit more?
Yeah I'd drop Lampard back a bit and go with Deco then, you do need someone who can do a bit of playmaking.
Brwned actually preferred Cannavaro and felt I didn't need a midfielder either.
You're overrating some players a bit here as well. You think that midfield three automatically wins you 60% possession? Cannavaro over one of my defenders is a much bigger improvement than Nedved over Lampard. Defense is my priority. Have you seen the other defense? It's not that good.
Lampard does way more defensively than Riquelme. Riquelme is completely useless when the other team has the ball. Possession won't be a huge issue.
Here's a scenario. Frings has the ball. What's going to happen. Pressure from Overmars, Riquelme, McManaman or Henry is going to cause him to panic and hoof the ball forward. No. You don't need a magic man to get balls out to the wing. Stoke do it all the time against better teams. And I've got miles better central midfielders and full backs than they've ever had.
My only lingering doubt is whether to swap Luis Enrique and Seedorf there.
i.e. Luis Enrique playing box-to-box on that left side and onto Scholes or on the right side to help with Pires. My inclination is I could still expect Seedorf to track back and I have Zanetti on that side so the right man on Scholes is much more critical.
Thoughts?
I would play
..................Forlan.....Vieri........
.........................Zidane........
...........Seedorf...Simeone..Enrique....
as your front 6. You have two very strong attacking full backs to provide more width if needed.
Other options are a midfield 4 with Zidane on his left-hand role that he played in for France, or bring Zanetti into midfield with Simeone and play 4-2-3-1 (do you have another RB in your ranks? or LB as Candela can play RB)
Defence might win you shit in real life Snow, but it doesn't with fans. 